williams, the five's co-host. he joins me now. juan, you are passionate about this as well. the democrats blinked on this, i'm surprised, what do you make of it all? >> i was taken by what you said, i think you are right. i don't think you had the political context, and obviously they're up there talking to a democratic audience trying to win democratic votes. at the moment, given that about 20% of the primary vote on the democratic side is black americans, they don't think they can risk alienating the black lives movement and knew they would have done that if they said all lives matter because all lives matter makes sense network the context of the movement it means you are talking about police using excessive force. charles: think of this, okay, listen if there's a bad police officer, we all want that person to pay a heavy penalty. we hold police officers on a pedestal where they should be, when they slip off the pedestal, they should pay a heavy price for it. >> right. charles: whenever there is an incident, al