. , cornell west, and jill stein by positioning them to biden's left even if that is not exactly true. joining me now is senator tim kane, democrat from the great state of virginia. former chair of the national committee and hillary clinton's former running mate in 2016. and also, the author of a new book out this week called walk, ride, paddle. a life outside. what is that? what is the outside? senator kaine, thank you for being here tonight. i'm very eager to know what you, you know what an election with spoilers is like. 2016 saw gary johnson and jill stein in the race. some people think they took away from hillary clinton and her very, you know, well documented margin of victory in the popular vote. but not in the electoral college. what lessons did you learn from that and should democrats take away from that as far as third party spoilers? >> i'm glad you asked me that. winning the popular vote big. winning the virginia vote. but still falling short. that means in 2024, we democrats have to be focused not just on winning but winning big and i think we will. but we have to deal wi