joining me now, paul butler. repressor of law at georgetown. former prosecutor, and intimacy -- msnbc legal analysts. the cases against all trump getting to a halt for appeals, does ms. carroll's case show that there are still ways to hold trump accountable? >> you bet it does, jonathan. guess what trump has not done since he got whacked with that $84 million verdict? he has not defamed e. jean carroll -- he quit lying about her because he knows if he does, she is going to slap him with another defamation lawsuit. going bankrupt seems to scare him more than going to prison. >> do you think you will be successful on appeal in overturning the judgment or lowering the penalty? >> no. he will not be. there is a myth as we heard from your earlier guest that he beats court cases, he is successful to delay. when judgment day comes, he loses all the time. he lost to ms. carroll on the defamation case. he lost to letitia james on the civil fraud case would he lost involving his fake university. and the case involving history -- is charity. i do not thin