good morning. and welcome to "this week." the health care summit. did it make any difference? >> i hope that this is not political theater. >> the parties came together. >> we just can't afford this. >> but they couldn't bridge the gap. so what's next for health care reform? questions for our headliners. >> this will take courage to do. but we will get it done. >> house speaker nancy pelosi. and -- >> mr. president, renounce in idea of jamming through your version of the bill. >> a leading republican on health care, senator lamar alexander. plus a chairman is found to

have broken ethics rules. >> i have to deal with my lawyer. >> a big state governor bows out under fire. >> i have never abused my office. >> that and much more with george will, sam donaldson, cokie roberts and paul krugman. and, as always, "the sunday funnies." >> even our weather is beating canada. we're outsnowing them, too. i'llell you. good morning, everyone. with so many issues facing congress from health care reform to unemployment and new questions about how congress does business, i sat down with the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. madame speaker. welcome back to "this week." let's talk health care. the president said we cannot have another year of debate. on this issue. we need decisions now.

you saidn friday, we're determined to pass health care. do you have the 217 votes necessary? >> right now, we're working on the policy. the president put a, i think a good proposal on the internet on sunday. we're examining that carefully. to make sure it has all the affordability for the middle class. the accountability for the insurance companies. and the accessibility we need to have. from the meeting on thursday, i believe we're ready for the next step, to write legislative language and go from there. >> what are the fixes that the senate needs to make in your opinion? through reconciliation presumably? before the house can vote on it. >> i believe listening to the president yesterday, he's hopeful there's way to have a bipartisan bill. whatever ruth the senate takes, we need more affordability for the middle class. this is very important.

their access to health care and the affordability that makes that access possible. we want to close the doughnut hole for seniors. it was an important mistake made when the republicans passed the prescription drug bill. we want the seniors to have the comfort of knowing that with this bill, the doughnut hole -- it's a technical -- a slang term that means that the seniors pay more. we have more. we want to eliminate the nebraska fix and have equity for all of the states. there are more. those are three of the main ones. one of the biggest differences is how the bill would be paid for. we cut waste fraud and abuse over a half a trillion dollars in the bill. but we still needed more of a pay for the senate bill had a tax that we did not like in the house. i think the president's proposal addresses that concern.

so now it's a question of, when you go to legislative language, you need the clarity. that's when you find out what everything means. >> you know that the polls show that the american people are deeply divided on health care. many of them are opposed to it even though they are supporting certain specific pieces of it. what do you say to your members when it does come to the house to vote on this, who are in real fear of losing their seats in november if they support you now? >> i think everybody wants affordable health care for all americans. they know this will take courage. it took courage to pass medicare and social security. many of the same forces at work decades ago are at work again against this bill. but the american people need it. why are we here? we're not here to self-perpetuate our service in congress. we're here to do the job for the american people to get them results. that gives them not only health

security, but economic security because the health issue is an economic issue for america's families. >> do you wish that the president posted his bill before this week? that maybe six months ago you knew it was somethg he would be willing to drop, the public option? before you fought so hard for it. >> we still fight for what the public option would do. whether it's in the bill or not, the purpose must be recognized. that is to keep the insurance companies honest. to keep them accountable and increase competition. i think it became clear on thursday that what the president was proposing was regulation of the insurance companies. left to their own devigss, they have done harm to the american people. they need to be regulated. that's one of the biggest differences between the democrats and republicans. another one, an example of it is ending the denial of coverage to those with a pre-existing

condition. that's a major insurance reform that has to take place. >> would we still be debating plan out six months ago?t this >> i don't know what the value is -- the president's been trying, we met on march 5th to talk about working together to have health care accessible to americans. we met with some vout side stake holders. i smile because i remember senator kennedy coming in and saying i am coming in as a foot soldier for health care reform. he was such a tremendous leader. that was a year ago. since then, we have had hundreds of hours and meetings and markups of bills, well over 100 republican amendments are in this bill, the house and senate bills and what the president put forth. we'll see some of what was said yesterday. for those who were making

constructive suggestions, if they can be accommodated. the bill has bipartisan provisions in it. if they have a good idea that works for the american people, whether they're going to vote for the bill or not, we want nit the bill. >> how long are you willing to wait for the ideas? >> well, that happened yesterday. >> the president seemed to make it clear that time's up. >> we have to go forth. as i said, as we sit around this big table in blair house, every night families sit around the kitchen table to try to figure out the finances. the security of their jobs, the cost of their children's educations, what is the status of their pensions? how they're going to pay their medical bills. they can't wait any longer. if your family has a pre-existing condition, or if you're denied coverage. if you have a rescission. if your insurance has been withdrawn as you need a procedure, you know it's long overdue.

what is the point of talking about it any longer? >> but, the point is, when it doesome to vote on nit the house, you're certain you can muster the 217 societies you need? even with the differences over abortion languages? members are saying they voted for it before and can't vote on it now because of the language on abortion. >> let me say, i have this in three -- just so you know how we sequence this. first, we zero in on the policy. what it will be. that's what we'll be doing following the president's summit yesterday. secondly, we'll see what the senate can do. what is the substance, what is the senate prepared to do? then we'll go to the third step as to what my members will vote for. we have a very diverse party. we all agree that the present system is unsustainable. it's unaffordable for families, businesses, individuals, it's unsustainable to our budget. we cannot afford the rising

costs of health care. as the president as said. health care reform is entitlement reform. it's unsustainable for the economy. we want to be competitive. this -- health care costs are a co competitiveness issue. costs diminish the opportunities for our businesses domestically and internationally. >> you mentioned jobs. members of the house have already weighed in on the senate jobs bill saying it's too small and does too little. some say it should not be called a jobs bill. should you agree to the smaller approach given that unemployment is the biggest issue in the country right now? quickly as possible.move as we passed our bill in december, as you probably know. what the senate is taking is a segmented approach to it. i think when everyone seeing the different pieces --

>> but you've said that's okay. is it okay to do it in that smaller, incremental way? >> it would have been faster if they just agreed to the bill last year, because people are hurting. they need jobs. and we need to move quickly. this won't take a long time to do. but every piece oft will not have have provision in it that we want. it will create jobs, help small businesses grow. that's where major job creation is. it addresses concerns we have about veterans coming home that are facing unemployment. it's the biggest issue for our seniors. believe it or not. jobs and the economy are the biggest issue for our seniors, and their opportunities as well. it's a four-letter word we use around her all the time. jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. the health care bill is a jobs bill. it will create several hundred thousand jobs immediately.

it will also encourage an entrepreneurial spirit in our country because they note know they have health care. the ethics committee has said that charles rangel has violated the gift rule. how can he remain in his position? after this public admonishment took place? >> well, it is a public admonishment. it said he did not knowingly violate house rules. the fact is that -- >> he should have known, though, don't you think? >> i don't know. the ethics committee is an independent, bipartisan committee. in the house. they act independent of us. that's exactly the way it should be. i instituted an outside ethics panel when i became speaker. which makes recommendations so we have a double way to receive information.

thoughe ethics committee can self-initiate. and take recommendations. we look forward to seeing what else they have to say about what they have before him. >> further admonishments? should he remain in position? >> let's give a chance to hear what the independent, bipartisan. they work very hard to reach their conclusions. obviously, there's more to come here. >> but you understand this is why so many americans think congress is corrupt. it just doesn't -- it doesn't look good. it doesn't pass the smell test. >> i served for seven years on the ethics committee. the last thing i would have wanted would be for the speaker of the house to interfere in a political way. that should never happen. the fact is that what mr. rangel has been admonished for is not good. it was a violation of the rule of the house. it was not a -- something that

jeopardized our country in any way. so it remains to be seen what the rest of the work of the committee is. hope it will be soon. again, it's independent. they go at their own pace. >> let's talk a bit about the coming elections in november. you had recently -- and the tea party movement. do you think it will be a force to recn with? you had said last summer that it was a faux grass roots movement. you called it the astroturf movement? is it a force? >> what i said at the time was that the republican party directs a lot of what the tea party does. but not everybody in the tea party takes direction from the republican party. there was a lot of astroturf as opposed to the grass roots. we share some of the views in the roles of special interests in washington, d.c. that has to stop. that's why i have fought the special interests. whether it's in energy, health

insurance, pharmaceuticals. >> common ground with nancy pelosi and the tea party movement? >> there are some. because, again, some of it is orchestrated from the republican headquarters. some of it is hijacking the good intentions of people that share some of our concns, about the role of special interests. many tea partiers, not that i speak for them, share the vi, and democrats, republicans, and independents share the view that the recent supreme court decision that empowers the special interests is something they oppose. >> finally, president obama gave himself a b plus. when asked to rate his year in office. how would you rate yourself in the past year? >> i think i get an "a" for effort. and in the hse of representatives, my mark is the mark of our members. we have passed every piece of legislation that is part of the obama agenda. the creation of jobs, expanding access to health care.

creating new green jobs for the future. regulatory reform. we have passed the full agenda. >> are you frustrated that so many bills are stalled in the senate? almost 300 bills that have been passed by the house that are sitting, languishing in the senate? >> most of those have strong bipartisan support. that's about the republican delay tactics by requiring 60 votes on simple legislation that harry reid always has the votes for. he doesn't have the time to get the 60 votes to pass. it's about time. everything's about time. the most finite commodity we have. we used the time well in the house. to get an agenda passed and time for it to be considered by the

senate. the delaying tactic is the republicans in the senate. >> dare i ask you to grade the senate? >> well, let's grade us all on the curve. what matters is what we do and how it relates to the lives of the american people. back to the kitchen table. they have to think about how to make ends meet, make the future better for their children. provide for their own retirement. that's where the grade goes. grade is given on election day. we're prepared to face the american people with the integrity of what we have put forth, the commitment to jobs and health care and education. and the peace and safe for our children and political power to go with it to win the elections. >> madame speaker, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> we're joined by senator lamar alexander. the republican point man on the

senate. welcome to "this week." >> thank you. >> you heard them say, this is it. are you going to after amendments? are the republicans going to offer amendments and play ball? >> we already have. we spent seven hours on thursday. i think that was great opportunity for us to say why we thought the president's bill is not a good bill and what we think we ought to do. which is to establish a goal of reducing costs, and go step by step toward that goal. we offered a number of good ideas. some of them the president agreed with. if he'll put his bill aside, we can go after this together. in a bipartisan way. >> he's said he's not going to scrap the bill. he's moving forward, with or without you. why not be part of the process? take what you consider to be an imperfect bill and attach some

of the proposals that you support? >> this is a car that can't be recalled and fixed. there are too many things wrong with it. it cuts medicare a half trillion dollars. it raises taxes a half trillion dollars. it cuts medicare to spend on a new program at a time when it raises insurance premiums.15. the president and had a little exchange on that. it shifts big costs to states. it will drive up college tuitions and state taxes. as a former governor, i have heard from governors on this. it dumps 15 million low-income americans into program called medicaid. 50% of doctors won't see patients in medicaid. you can't fix that unss they take all those things out. if they did, they would haven't a bill. >> you had said, you quoted senator byrd. you called on the president to renounce using reconciliation. to push the bill through the senate with the simple majority bill. you said it would be an outrage to run the health care bill

through the senate like a freight train with this process. why are you so oosed to this given that the republicans have used reconciliation more than the democrats in the past? >> the outrage words were senator byrd's words, not mine. >> right. i quoted. >> the reconciliation procedure is a little used legislative procedure. 19 times it's been used. it's for the purpose of taxing and spending and reducing deficits. the difference here is there's never been anything like this, this size, magnitude, complexity, run through the senate this way. there are a lot of technical problems with it, which we could discuss. it would turn the senate -- it would be the end of the united states senate, as a protecter of minority rights. as place where you have to get consensus, instead of majority. it would be a political kamikaze mission for the democratic party if they jam it through after the american people have been saying, we're telling you every way we know how that we don't

want this bill. >> why political kamikaze? when you start drilling to the specifics, a lot of people support the specifics. >> they do. they do support some of the specifics. you put it all together, they don't like it. they don't want the taxes increased, the premiums increased. millions of americans will have premiums increased. the governors are up in arms about the new costs on states. so people have decided -- and there's a sense that washington is taking over too much. i was thinking this morning about president george w. bush. when he tried to have private accounts for social security. he thought he was right. he pushed and pushed and pushed. if he had stopped halfway there and shifted, he probably could have gotten the bipartisan agreement on social security. i think president obama could learn from that. he has a lot of us that would like to help him write a health care bill. but not this one. >> when you say political

kamikaze, if the democrats push this through, they'll lose all their seats in november? what are we talking about here? >> here's what i think. the people are saying, we don't want it. the democrats are saying, we don't care. we're going to pass it any way. washington will be consumed with washington trying to push this through. and then for the rest of the year, we're going to be involved if a campaign to repeal it. every democrat in the country will be defined be i the unpopular health care bill when the real issues at the time are jobs, terror, and debt. >> you also said that republicans have come to the conclusion that congress "doesn't do comprehensive well. that our country is too big and too complicated for washington." but congress has passed many bills in the past. the civil rights bill, medicare. the americans with disabilities act. are you saying this congress in particular is not capable of

doing something that sweeping and dramatic? >> the answer is yes, in that sense. >> that's not good. >> but, no. let me go back. i was a very young aide here when president johnson, who had more democratic votes in congress than president obama had, had the civil rights bill written in everett dirkson's office. he was the republican leader. he did that not just to pass it. he wanted to make sure that when it was passed, it was accepted by the people. so there wouldn't be a campaign, as there will be in health care, to repeal it as soon as it's passed. today, i've watched the comprehensive immigration bill. the comprehensive cap and trade. the comprehensive health care bill. they fall of their own weight because we're biting off more than we can chew. i think we do better as a country when we go step by step toward a goal.

the goal should be reducing health care costs. >> the country has changed or congress? >> i think the size of the effort has changed. a 2,700-page bill is going to be unpopular because you're hiding something in it. it's full of surprises. it's -- it's -- policy skeptics believe in the law of unintended consequences. when you write in the ddle of the night in a partisan way, pass it on christmas eve, and it's that long. it will have surprises like the cornhusker kickback. that was probably the death blow. >> your colleague, senator evan bayh has said he won't run again. basically throwing his hands up in disgust saying, basically, congress is broken. i don't want to be a part of it anymore. he cited you as someone he could find common ground with. how do we fix congress and empower them to pass sweeping changes that we need in the country if people like evan bayh just give up and go home? >> former governors, and i'm one, always have a hard time with the senate.

we're used to having governors say, let's go this way. a legislator is a reactor to things. a lot more is going on than one would think. i introduced a clean air bill with 11 democrats and republicans. we hope we can pass it this year. senator webb, a democrat, and i have introduced a nuclear power bill. senator graham, kerry, lieberman are working on a climate change bill. if you take specific steps toward goals, you're more likely to succeed. we can't do these big comprehensive things. >> very quickly, somebody like scott brown breaks ranks and votes against filibusters, he gets on his facebook page all kinds of messages, calling him a sellout, a judas. what does that say? about politil environment right now? >> it says we're in a viral political environment.

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i'm going to start off by saying, here's some things we agree on. >> i think we can all agree on

that. >> we agree more than we disagree. >> we agree on that. >> all parties in both chambers ought to be able to agree. >> we all agree. >> we basically agree. >> we agree with the premise you stated. >> we agree philosophically. >> you agree we should have some insurance regulation. >> the main point, is we agree. >> i'm happy to announce that no agreement was reached. >> we're agrees to go to our "roundtable" now with george will, sam donaldson, cokie roberts, and paul krugman. >> and we're all going to agree. >> not a chance. >> what did you think, george? did the summit mean anything? >> let's put it in context. the country saying we want to concentrate on the economy and jobs not health care and the president doubles down on health care. days after he unveils a

commission for ponzi entitlement structures, he pushes ahead with a trillion-dollar new entitlement. he melds the bills and comes up with one more expensive than the other one. the country says, let's go it piecemeal. he says, and he may be right. he says, this is such a complex system, you can't do it piecemeal. if you touch something here, something jiggles over here. we have two parties for a reason. they have different views about the purposes of government. we slog ahead. >> he comes up with a bill that says over 20 years will save billions of dollars. you can argue it if you want. that's what they say. the summit demonstrated that the republicans are not going to play on anything. not a question of lets meet in the middle. you're the majority party, you're going to get most of it, just give us something.

they're not going to play. what the democrats have to do now is pass the bill, put back the public option, since it's their bill and pass it. >> they can't pass it with the public option. >> 51 votes in the senate they can. >> but -- >> let me finish here. the final thing, the president has to drop the george b. mcclelland mask and become ulysses grant. >> that's a good point. you've been arguing that the president should be more ruthless. >> i think the summit severed his purpose. to demonstrate that the republicans are not going to give on anything. they're going to make every possible claim, say things that are not true, like premiums are going to go up under this bill. which isn't going to happen. yeah, i prefer, george and i have the same view. but i think the better metaphor is, it's a three-legged stool. you have to have guaranteed

issue, you can get pre-existing issues are covered. to make that work you have to have mandate. you have to have large subsidies. it has to be more of less what it is. the democrats, from their own point of view, they have to do this. they have to -- they can't go to novemberlections -- >> that's the big question. that is the big question. there's no certainty at this point that there are 217 votes in the house and 51 in the senate. no matter what procedure they use. that's where they're hung up. which is where they've been hung up all along. the house did a couple of smart things in terms of what people were upset about. you heard senator alexander in the dead of night, 2,700 pages, christmas eve. those are the talking points. so the white house puts it up on the web, has a seven-hour meeting, takes out the special provisions, particularly for nebraska. so that they're trying to fix the things that they see are the

things that the public has had a problem with. it is true that you can sing it round or flat, george, whether the public is for this bill or not. a recent poll, a kaiser poll said they would be angry or disappointed if a bill didn't pass. i think that that is something that theemocrats are going with. i think they want something and the democrats just have to, you know, say their prayers and vote for a bill and hope it works. >> it's true. i think in the short run they're going to lose seats. >> they're going to lose seats any way. >> they dropped the ball last summer. the republicans brilliantly picked it up. it probably won't be reversed by november. this is the only chance in how many years to do this. i think history will show they're right if they get it done. >> you want the president to run the war by his wonderful indifference to his own casualties.

i think some members in the senate and house may disapprove. >> did i not just say they may lose seats? were you listening? >> by the millions. second, now paul says, that, in fact, republicans have no ideas. they do. cross selling across state lines. tort reforms. just a second, paul. then you say they're telling whoppers, about lamar alexander. you said in the next sentence, i guess you could say he wasn't technically lying because the congress budget office says that's true. >> that's not what it says. ky explain this? >> let me set the predicate here. you say the senate does say that the average premiums would go up but people would be getting better premiums. >> let me explain what happens. you actually have to read the cpo report. the cpo report tells you that what it will do, what the bill will do is bring a lot of people that are uninsured, currently young, relatively no cost into the risk pool. which will actually bring

premiums down a little bit. it will let a lot of people get better insurance. a lot of people that are underinsured. they have ones that don't protect you in a crisis. it will get those people up to having average coverage. it makes the payments go up. but it doesn't mean that the people that have good coverage will have to pay more. >> if the government came to you and said, you have a car, we're going to compel you to buy a more expensive car, it's not really more expensive because it's a better car. >> that's not really -- katherine lampel did a piece that said the ma obstacle is not that people are choosing to be uninsured. it's income. young people that do not buy insurance because they can't afford it, they will be brought in through the subsidiesubsidie. >> one of the things that the

congress has failed to do until now is convince people who have insurance that the bill will work for them. that's why this argument is important. the one thing that has been added on apparently, since we haven't seen the bill in the last week, is the decision to have the federal government regulate rates. and that could be extremely popular. >> the rates insurance companies charge people. >> the old guys, they say, we're going to cut your medicare. they're not going to cut the benefits. not touch them. what they want to cut is, as i understand it, medicare advantage, that was put in as a government subsidy of 15 cents on everyollar. take the 15 cents away, the private insurers can now compete on their own. they can use that money elsewhere. it's not correct that they're trying to cut medicare. >> i do want to get to one other issue. the language on abortion. it almost died in the house. the health care bill, because of

abortion. the stupac amendment. it attached highly restrictive language. to when abortions can be covered. bart stupac says this bill is unacceptable. this current bill. as obama has proposed it. he says 20 other members of the house are opposed to this? will this kill the amendment. >> alan's 15 minutes of fame have arrived. he will soon be quite famous. it will be his job to rule on what can and cannot be passed under reconciliation. is it a budgetary related thing? can you say that's budget related? no one thinks you can change the abortion language under reconciliation. >> in 2001, the senate parliamentarian was in doubt about some of the things that the republicans were doing through reconciliation and they dealt with that by firing him and replacing him. >> and can the speaker get through some changing, can she

find the votes? >> it will be very, very tough. that's what i said at the beginning. this bill is not at the moment passable by democrat folks. >> she'll get the votes. in the end, they'll understand, the old phrase, we hang together or we hang separately.g together >> and they're on record already taking an unpopular vote. >> the calculation they have made all along, it's worse to do nothing than to do something. in the long run, people will like the bill. >> can i say something that paul and i might agree on? 20 years from now, the country will be paying a larger portion of their gdp on health care. we're getting older. as we age, we get more chronic diseases. we're getting richer. and third, medicine is becing more competent. therefore, we're going spend more on health care. >> the health care industry is the biggest employer in most of our cities now.

when the speaker talks about a jobs creation bill, it's true. let's shift to charlie rangel. about the fact thatlosi talk what he did didn't endanger national security. but it doesn't look good. we have a handful of democrats that have started to join republicans to call for him to step down as chairman of t house ways and means committee. a powerful post in the house of representatives. can he hold this post? >> he can, as long as his colleagues say he can. whether it becomes too hot for him to hold is something that evolves. you see what happens in the papers in new york and all of that and whether he can withstand it. in terms of the ethics committee report, there were two sets of issues they were dealing with. one is the trip to the caribbean, apparently paid for by corporations. the other was donations to members of congress who then provided things in legislation for the people who gave those donations.

i think that's a far, far more serious event. >> very serious. >> and the ethics committee basically said, no problem. that's the kind of thing that makes people very uncomfortable about the congress a feel like the congress is all on the take. >> let's talk about the man for a moment. years ago, he wrote his autobiography. i haven't had a bad day since. talked about the time in the war where he led his men to safety. he got the bronze star as a soldier. when he came to congress, he came as a reformer. he was on the impeachment committee. and the judiciary committee for richard nixon. through the years, we have watched him. if these charges before the committee, they're much more serious. if in fact that -- it's all true, he has to give it up. he has to have it taken away from him. i think his being in the house

has been good for his constituents and the country. >> to know charlie rangel is to love him. wonderful spirit and all that. still, one has to wonder. suppose a republican had revices his disclosure form and his net worth doubled and he came up with not one but two accounts with $500,000 in them -- >> and speaker pelosi and hoyer were calling for tom delay to resign his post when he was admonished by the ethics committee. >> it's worth pointing out that none of these things affect policy. when the medicare drug bill was written and then billy left to become head of a department -- i

wish rangel would go away. it has no national significance. now let's go to the new york governor. because the state of new york has quite a brouhaha playing out. david paterson, he is accused of trying to influence a woman's testimony. domestic violence was his issue coming into office. >> he called her himself to basically say, or is alleged to have, to say don't show up in court to testify against my friend, who beat you up. that's the worst kind of harassment of women who are already very reluctant to go to court on domestic violence issues. >> he's said he will not run for

re-election. this weekend, the democrats are meeting because they're not sure he can govern ten more months. >> his father, basil paterson, a man of great substance. his son has proved not to be. one of the lessons here, when you run, because they run as team, governor and lieutenant governor. you don't put someone on the ticket because there's a political advantage who is not capable of stepping in, as he as proved not to be. i think it's a real question about whether he should serve out the rest of his term. >> he's got a huge budget problem, he's infuriated the kennedys when caroline kennedy tried to take over hillary clinton's senate seat. >> you mention the budget problem. new york state spending has increased almost 70% in a decade. it's in a dead heat with california to see which is the worst go governed state right n.

>> l peopcks people out and suc. >> it's a question to which state is more poorly run. who can govern that state? >> from my own state of new jersey, i think we're in the running there. >> you are. >> we're going to see whether andrew cuomo can run it? >> he's investigating the governor. the white house had tried to privately convince governor paterson to step aside. >> privately? it wasn't so private. >> they're probably looking at this as a positive thing. >> the business of using the state troopers. of course, eliot spitzer was also -- all these echoes of the wife standing by as the governor admits to some imperfection. if i were the state troopers, i would find way to just not do what the governor says. it just gets them in trouble over and over again.

see arkansas. >> and of course, this week en a brand new social secretary appointed for the white house. she was highly criticized after the obamas' first state dinner. she looked absolutely gorgeous in what some people said later on was far too fancy a dress. but most importantly, that was the state dinner that was crashed by the salahis. they walked in without an invitation. when the social secretary's office didn't have people manning the security sites. >> i talked to desiree yesterday at length. she's from my home city of new orleans. a fellow sacred heart girl. >> say it. i love to hear her say it. >> new orleans. she has lots of good explanations about that dinner and bottom line is, it's the secret service. her major point is, and i completely take this. she put on 330 events at the white house last year. and did open the building to all

kinds of people who had not been there before. they had wonderful musing days. during the the day, the musicians would work with people in washington, teach them things, before coming on at night. >> that's irrelevant. people that work for the president should understand their place. that's to be spear carriers. there are two stars in anyone's white house. the president and the president's spouse. after that, the passion for anonymity has been long lost. she wanted to be a star herself. >> what about the people that work for presidents and go write books for them? >> i think you're right. >> did she quit? or was she asked to leave? >> she was ousted. >> she says she quit. she did very well. >> she didn't understand that she was not a star in the sense that she should make herself prominent.

>> when there's no penalty for failure, failure proliferates. she failed conspicuously in her one great challenge, the first state dinner. and she's gone. if she's gone because she failed, that's a healthy sign. >> she was a close contingent of chicago friends. will she be the first to leave? will we see other -- >> you see people leave. that's what happens. that's perfectly normal thing you see in administrations. people come and come in at the beginning and then it's time to go back to life. >> can i say that with 20 the fact that we're worried , about the status of the white house social secretary. >> it's unlikely to end, paul. >> paul, welcome to washington. >> thank you, thank you. you can get updates by signing up for our news letter. on abcnews.com. coming up next, we remember a woman who soared to new heights serving her country. and, of course, "the sunday funnies." employees everywhere are sending out an sos.

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