progress prospect of nuclear disaster. fox news will stay on this and bring you the latest. that's it for us, don't miss chris wallace talking budget with the senate's top republican, senator mitch mcconnell and mark warner and chambliss saxby. that's all next on "fox news sunday." i'm shannon bream, thanks for watching. >> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." japan is rocked by a huge earthquake and then a devastating tsunami. that killed hundreds and damaged two nuclear plants. we'll have the latest from japanese and talk with a nuclear safety expert. congress deadlocked over the budget as gas prices climb. we'll does this with mitch mcconnell. >> we'll sit down with senators mark warner and chambliss saxby. plus the latest on libya.

what can and should president obama do to oust muammar qaddafi. we'll ask our sunday panel. the undercover provocateur strikes again. hello again from fox news in washington. here's the latest on the situation in japan. officials fear more than 10,000 people may have been killed in the earthquake and the tsunami. they're fighting partial meltdowns at two nearby reactors. and more than 170,000 people have been evacuated from around the plants as a precaution. for more we turn to fox news correspondent greg patcot in japanese. >> the words of the japanese prime minister, probably considered in the town we are in and through the northeastern japanese, this country faces its

toughest crisis since world war ii and it will take determination to go through. up the coast from where we are at the nuclear reactor complex, sea water is being pumped into the reactor. authorities want to cool it down and say it's under control but evacuations continue around the area of the reactors and people are tested for radioactive poisings. this is as the scope of the disaster becomes much clearer up and down the coast too. we saw people struggle to deal with shortages of food, fuel, and power and dealing with aftershocks. a big one felt by this crew this morning and by others here. this also as help continues to come, relief is on the way. 100,000 japanese soldiers committed to try to help the people in the region and the u.s. has committed too. 20 choppers worked relief flights off the uss ronald

reaganer aircraft carrier and the people here are pitching in. in this village where we are, we sawed to people pick up boats, cars, trucks that were thrown on to the streets by the tsunami on friday. >> chris: thank you for that. joining us, an expert on nuclear issues. japanese officials are talking about fighting two partial meltdowns. what's going on and how dangerous? >> this is an inare unprecedented crisis. one reactorrer had half their core exposed. this is the one they're flooding with sea water to prevent a complete meltdown. they have lost control of a second reactor next to it that has a partial meltdown and a third reactor about 20 kilometers away they've lost control over. so you have multi-reactor crisis at the same time. we've never had a situation like

this. >> chris: what does it mean if you have a meltdown of a nuclear core? >> the worst case scenario is that the fuel rods fuse together. temperatures get so hot they melt together into a radioactive molten mass that bursts through the con containment mechanism and exposed to the outside. they spew radio activity in the ground and air and water and some could carry in the atmosphere to the west coast of the united states. >> thousands of miles across the pacific? >> sleuth. chair charon elbow, it spread around the entire atmosphere. >> you talk about the possibility of a huge exposure, the japanese officials evacuated people 12 miles from these plants. is that far enough? >> not under a meltdown scenario. you've seen the evacuation radiuses extend as the crisis

has developed. first two, then six, now 12. we're told 50 kilometers out they're blocked from access. the effective evacuation areas actually is larger that be the official one declared. >> put this into context. japanese officials had been rating this as a 4 on a scale that i didn't know existed of 1 to 7 for nuclear events. how does the situation in japanese as it now stands compare to three mile island in this country in 1979 and chernobyl in 1986. >> four might be a fair characterization. a local event without significant injury. if it continues it will get to 5, the three mile island category of a serious event. we almost lost three mile island. that's the situation we're fighting in japanese.

if there's a meltdown, it's a 6 or 7, the chernobyl category with potential for large scale loss of life. >> chris: are we talking 12 hours, 48 hours and what of the keys. >> we're in the key period right now. the next 12 to 24 hours will tell us whether the japanese officials are able to get control back other the reactors or it's gone. it's lost. the pumping of sea water into reactor number one is the last ditch effort to try to stop it before it's too late. if they succeed and hold it the next 24 hours, then the reactor course will cool down and will be in a path to containing this. >> chris: we're going to have to leave it there. thank you for coming up in and helping us understand what's happening. >> joining us from kentucky, the mitch mcconnell. senator, let's start with the serious situation in japan.

you and frankly politicians from both parties have been supporting the idea of nuclear power plants. you called it a critical component of a comprehensive energy plan. based on what you're hearing, are you having second thoughts? >> i think we ought to concentrate or helping our japanese friends after this disaster. this discussion reminds me somewhat of the conversations going on after the bp oil spill last year. i don't think right after a major environmental cat catastre is a time to talk about policy. >> chris: i understand that and nobody's asking but but as a resume reaction, isn't this going to make it harder for nuclear power plants to be located? just american citizens will look at it and say not in my backyard. >> we had that experience after the three mile island issue in

1979. that's a fairly common reaction to catastrophe. >> and your thoughts about that? >> my thought is we ought not to mistake american domestic policy based upon an event in japanese. we ought to concentrate on helping the japanese get past this catastrophe. >> let's look at the budget, as if you didn't have enough problems. house republicans proposed another short term continuing res resolution. this time for three weeks with $6 billion in cuts to keep the government running. first of all, will that pass and what do you think of the idea of some republicans to attach riders that cut off all funding for planned parenthood or funding for implementing obama healthcare reform. >> with regard to the short term cr i don't think we should let the government shut down.

we're on a path, a slow path but a path nevertheless to get to the $61 billion in reductions of this year's spending that house republicans were able to send over to us. so i think it should pass and will pass. the second issue is related to policy. these are always controversial. there are people that want policy riders on appropriation bills, people that want them off. it will be worked out in a negotiating process to get a solution to the funding of this year's budget. we've got a lot bigger financial problems than just this year's budget. but we're working on this year. >> chris: i take it from what you're saying, you would oppose riders attached to this three week extension. >> the house is going to produce a three week extension. i expect to support it and i expect it to pass. they'll have to make the decision as to whether or not to

include riders. this is not the ultimate solution for this year. that's going to be negotiated in the next couple weeks. >> chris: ten of your fellow senate republicans say they'll oppose any bill that comes before the senate that doesn't include significant spending cuts. this comes at a time when the top democratic leader, harry reid, said your party is ignoring voters' top concern. let's watch. >> the one thing that the republicans have not talked about it the one thick the american people care about more than anything. that is jobs. in fact, it's the direct opposite. they're destroying jobs. >> chris: senator, will the g.o.p. at least in the senate, block all government business that does not include spending cuts and secondly, what about harry reid's contention that besides the question, which is argue able about spending cuts, that the republicans are

ignoring putting people back to work? >> if government spending creates jobs we'll be in the middle of a boom because we've added $3 trillion to the national debt in two years with government stimulus efforts. cutting spending and job creation are not exclusive. we believe reducing spending is helpful to get the private sector going again. with regard to the procedure of going to bills, i think it's good to go to bills in the senate we can offer amendments on any subject. a couple were not directly related to spending but my members offered spending reduction amendments. we intend to continue to focus on reducing government spending no matter what bill is before the senate. >> chris: does that mean that republicans would filibuster an unrelated bill if it didn't including spending?

>> no it means we'd offer amendments related to spending and debt. we think that's what we ought to be talk about. you can offer metals unrelated to the bill and we intend to do that. >> chris: you wouldn't filibuster that bill. >> if it's a bill that's got merit, there's no reason to keep it from going forward but we would try to add on measures we think address the problems of spending and debt. >> chris: understood. the government will reach its debt limit sometime in april or may and this week you challenged president obama to lead a bipartisan effort to deal with the debt problem. you said this in an interview with the "wall street journal." unless we do something important about the debt, i don't believe there will be a single republican senator voting to raise the debt ceiling. senator, what does that mean, that there has to be a deal on entitlements and taxes or you're going to vote against extending

the debt limit? >> it means we've got a $14 trillion debt. $14 trillion. that's the size of our economy, which gibbs to make us look like greece. over and gov above that we have $50 trillion in commitments we made that we cannot keep on entitlement programs like social security, medicare, medicaid. we aren't doing anything to bended curve. raising the debt ceiling is the perfect opportunity to do something important about the subject being raised by raising the debt ceiling, which is our debt. what i've said is i don't intend to support raising the debt ceiling and i don't believe senate republicans do unless we do something important related to spending and debt. the administration understand we're not going to bring up the debt ceiling and everybody ai. it has to carry something with it that the markets, foreign

countries, the american people, believe is a credible effort to begin to get a handle on spending and debt. >> chris: i'm trying to clear up. when you say do something important, does that mean you would have begun negotiations or you would have a final deal? >> what it means is i'm not going to negotiate the deal here on your show. but we all have a sense of how you could get at the problem. the administration understands we under it. we need to come together and figure out what we can do and add it to the debt ceiling. >> chris: i want to ask you about this aspect of the debt ceiling. speaker boehner said that fail to raise the debt would be irresponsible. he said if we were to fail to increase the debt limit, we would send our economy into a tailspin. i guess the question is, he seems to be saying, no matter what, we've got to increase the debt ceiling. >> well, as you know, i was talking about the senate. 53 democrats and 47 republicans.

my prediction is not a single one of the 47 republicans will vote to raise the debt ceiling unless it includes with it some credible effort to do something about our debt. now, the house is another matter. i'm just predicting senate republican votes. i don't believe senate republicans will vote to raise the debt. the democrats can raise it if they choose to and try to do nothing about the problem. i think, to get the 47 republicans, you've got to do something credible that the markets believe is credible and the american people believe is credible and foreign countries believe is credible in addition to raising the debt ceiling. >> chris: new subject, your party is beginning to hammer president obama for rising gas prices and cual calling for an all of the above strategy. friday the president noted domestic oil production this

past year is higher than it was over the last seven years. let's take a look. >> any notion my administration has shut down oil production might make for a good political sound bite but doesn't match up with reality. >> chris: is president obama to blame for rising gas prices? >> he certainly participated. in spite of what he said, production is up slightly principally because of actions by the previous administration. but this administration, the last two years, has been shutting down wells, senator vitter had a whole list of rigs in the gulf of mexico and where they've been moved around the world. bureaucrats making it very difficult to get permits. there's been a conscious effort to make it difficult to drill in this country both onshore and off by the bureaucrats appointed by this administration and the president noting there's been a

slight uptic in production doesn't get to the heart of the problem. 60% of the oil comes from overseas. we have vast reserves, particularly in alaska. my goodness, when are we going to use our own reserves and quit depending so much on areas of the world that don't like us. >> chris: senator, we have less than two minutes. one last area, libya. it's going to look at if the qaddafi regime with superior fire power is turning the tide on the rebels. yesterday we had the arab league calling on the international community to impose a no-fly zone. should the u.s. intervene militaryily and do whatever it takes to oust qaddafi. >> it's noteworthy the arab league passed a recommendation for a no-fly zone. that would have included syria. in this regime is that

unacceptable, it tells us it's a pretty unacceptable regime. how k u.s. be helpful? secretary of state and defense are looking into option. one thing that wouldn't involve the use of u.s. personnel or u.s. airplanes would be arming the insurgents. the know the secretary of state will meet with the insurgents this week and hopefully make recommendations. this is not an easy conclusion to reach but it's noteworthy the arab league thinks we should have a no-fly zone. >> chris: as the leader of republicans in the senate, it doesn't sound like you're willing to commit at this point that you favor a no-fly zone. >> we ought to continue to monitor the situation. i don't think i'm going reach a conclusion in the melding middle of that conflict. that's why we have an

administration and secretary of state and secretary of defense. we're looking forward to their recommendation. >> chris: we have to leave it there. thank you so much for coming in. it's a pleasure to talk to you. >> a bipartisan effort to find an answer to this nation's growing and dangerous dead problem. we'll talk with two senators behind the effort right aftert the break. back then, he had something more important to do. he wasn't focused on his future but fortunately, somebody else was. at usaa we provide retirement solutions for our military, veterans and their families. from investments... to life insurce... to health care options. learn more with our free usaa retirement guide. call 877-242-usaa.

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while the president and congressional leaders continue their deadlock over what to do about the nation's debt, two senators worked on a bipartisan plan to cut $4 trillion over the next decade. we're joined by virginia democrat mark warner and chambliss saxby. >> the key to your plan you say is everybody's got to have some skin in the game.

and for you as a republican, senator chambliss, this means agreeing to the political i am palatable increase in revenue. are you willing to increase taxes? >> we can increase revenues without increasing taxes per se. as a matter of fact, what our proposal does is reduce the effective and direct tax rates all the way across the board. we do that by making a significant reform in the tax code. everybody every time we've made a significant reform, whether reagan in '86 or bush in 2001. we've see reduction in rates and increase in revenues. >> chris: sewer you're talking about a trillion dollars in deductions in the tax system. grover norquist, head of the group americans for tax reform says what you're talking about means that you're still breaking your pledge. he's obviously going to hold

this against all republicans, breaking your pledge not to raise taxes. >> let me say we're joined on my side in these discussions by senator coburn and senator my craypo. idaho. we've been designated of three of the most if not the most conservative members of the united states senate. let me tell you, chris, this is such a massive problem, as senator mcconnell stated a $14 trillion debt. if we don't get our arms around it now, we're going to become a second tier nation and we cannot allow that to happen. its imperative to put everything on the table for discussion. i don't know where we'll wind up but if you look at the debt commission report, we have to address spending, reduce spending in a major way and address entitlements in a major way and you've got to look at revenue and reform our

complicated tax code. when you do that, everybody does have that skin in the game and everybody gets their ox gored a little bit. >> chris: let me bring in senator warner. for you as a democrat, having a skin in the game means you take the inpalatable choice of cutting entitlements. are you willing to scale back on social security, medicare and medicaid. >> we have to do all this. otherwise if we focus the discussion as we have so far, the back and forth, in the congress, all you're cutting is 12% of the federal budget. and you're seeing actually good programs, perhaps being eliminated because you focused the discussion only in that area. you've got to put everything out. saxby and i will take arrows. we're willing to take on the -- reforming entitlement issues. every day we punt, every day we don't act, we add $4 million to

our national debt. at some point we have to pay that back. why not put a plan in place. we didn't get into this overnight. we're not going to dig out in a year. if we put a plan in place, the markets will respond and our economy will be better. that requires a little give. >> chris: the democratic leader in the senate, harry reid said this, social security has contributed not a single penny to the deficit so we can talk about entitlements as long as you eliminate social security. isn't that wrong? social security is already paying out more than it takes in and that's going to get worse as baby boomers retire. isn't it wrong that it doesn't contribute to the deficit and can social security be off the table? >> until recently social security has been running surplus. we've been borrowing from social security to finance the government. now that's clicked over on an

annual bases. we're paying out more than taking in. what our proposal puts out is not taking social security proceeds any longer and paying off the deficit. it's saying let's make sure social security is solvent for the next 75 years. >> chris: for instance raising retirement age. >> remember social security was put in place back in the 30s. set 65 as the start because life ex expectty was 65. now americans are living to age 80. the idea of raising the retirement age over the next 40 years, we're nothing going to be effected. folks under 35 might see a bump in the age increase but a lot of folks when 35 don't think there will be social security if we don't do something. >> chris: senator chambliss, how close are you to a plan?

is there a specific proposal where you come up with targets for spending, for revenue, for entitlements and if they're not met by subsequent congress will there would be triggers to cut spending or increase revenue. >> first of all what we have got to do is when we see an increase in revenues coming into washington, we've got to make sure that congress doesn't have the ability to spend that. because history dictates to us that if we have revenues coming in that are uncontrolled that's what's going to happen. what we have to make sure of and one of the major issues we're die dialoguing about it what do we do with those revenues? we need to make sure we commit the most significant part of those revenues to tax reduction, tax rate reduction, get our corporate rate down to competitive in the marketplace. get individual rates to where people pay less in taxes.

if you're one of the 70% that don't itemize you'll pay significantly less in taxes. the debt commission says somewhere between 20%, 15%, 10%, and apply it to the $14 trillion debt. otherwise, if we don't commit some of it to that, we're going to be stuck with a $14 trillion debt and it's only going to increase. that's not right. >> chris: senator warner, how close are you to a plan and, for instance, because we were talking about it with senator mcconnell. will you offer it as part of the debate over raising the debt limit in the nexium of months? >> we want it make sure we get it right more that be a time -- than a timeline. i want to comment chambliss saxby, he's been a great partner. we shouldn't allow the work of the deficit commission to go for naught. we're willing to link arms and we have other colleagues working with us.

i think you're seeing a whole lot of other members in both parties say we need this long term solution. i get a little worried when you tie it to the debt limit vote because as chairman ben bernanke said if we play russian roulette with the instability in the financial markets, if we default on america's obligation to pay, you could see a financial crisis. >> chris: this year? next we're? >> if we get into next year, you're into the presidential year and this issue will be punted to 2013. the financial market will say we no longer want to buy american debt. >> chris: i want to ask you, obviously one of the questions is whatever you come up with, you have to sell it to congress. you're one of speaker boehner's closer friends here in town. would he back a compromise that

included any revenue increase and do you think his tea party freshman would? >> it's not a matter of is it going to get done, it's a question of whether we do it on our terms. i think at the end of the day, we have to have within the room a discussion between the white house and house republicans and democrats. john boehner's a great leader. john boehner is about the business of bringing our fiscal house back in order. he gets it. so i think at the end of the day we'll be able to develop a plan that we've got to develop is plan that does fit within the parameters of the house republicans and democrats as well as senate republican democrats and the white house. >> chris: on that optimistic note we'll leave it there. senator chambliss, senator warn eash, thank you. >> up next, a possible nuclear meltdown. we'll ask our sunday panel what the disaster in japan could mean

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>> chris: you are lacking at the alarming video of the explosion saturday at a nuclear power plant in japan that's raised the stakes in the country's disaster even higher. it's time for our sunday group. bill kristol of the weekly standard. jeff zelany a first-timer here. former white house press secretary dana perino and kirstin powers. japanese officials presenting radioactive leeks and evacuation of 100,000 people. at a time when democrats and republicans were supporting nuclear power at safe, clean, nonpolluting energy, and president obama had $36 billion in loan credits in his 2012 budget to promote more plants,

what happens now to the domestic industry? >> we can save $36 billion from the budget because i think it's a setback to nuclear power in the u.s. i'll go out on a limb. but people say will we build new plants, 20% of our electricity comes from nuclear power plants. there are 104 in the u states. the tsunami did the most damage in japanese. on the one hand it's impressive how resistant there are to damage, on the other hand i think it's alarming fears, whether or not -- certainly if they come to fruition, it's obviously a setback to nuclear power and it makes stronger the case for going after national gas and oil domestically. >> we don't know how bad it's going to be but when you here the japanese situation mentioned with three mile iceland

dr. after that we had a 3-mile moratorium. >> the president has angered members of his party by i am bracing a nuclear port and the possibilities of that during his presidential campaign but it's i think -- bill's right, if something major happens of course it will stop it. even if this does not turn out to be as bad as it sound, it will make people nervous. so the white house right now is focused on this but it's really concerned about high gas prices of course. it's all tied together so the president will have to decide what -- if he should embrace nuclear power but in the short term -- >> chris: nobody's embracing it this week. >> no but he's going to have to come up with an energy policy which right now has been -- it's very uncertain what it's going to be.

>> chris: let me switch to dana. before the events in japan, president obama had scheduled a news corns friday to talk about higher gas prices. as republicans are beginning to come at him as they did in 2008 when gas prices spiked -- well against him but against the democrats in general for resisting domestic oil. how potent is political issue this? >> it can make or break elections. it's interesting how the administration allows president obama to say things that are quickly proven falls. he stood depress conference friday saying my policy is great and i'm encouraging production. that can't possibly be true. it doesn't matter -- well, production is up this year. but it's in spite of president obama not because of. it takes ten or so years to develop so -- almost at the same

time president obama is speaking -- i don't think its partisan as if you go into america where you are on a fixed budget and gas prices go up and you have to decide on whether or not you're going to be able to put money towards xoy, you don't go on a family trip. it makes a huge difference. small businesses, small profits are a big deal. that's why the white house is trying to get in front of them but the facts are standing in the way. >> he's on the defensive about this so he did come out and try to make a case he's on top of it and everything' okay. but he can say what he wants. the proof is in the pudding. if gas prices go up and there's not enough supply, people will continue to drumbeat for more drilling and it doesn't matter what he says. can i say something on the reactor. i want to -- thank you. i want to say that i think that

when we hear meltdown it sounds scary but the reality is they are able to contain it, at least at this point. so i think there are going to be a lot of people, antinuclear people who will journal on this and exploit it but we have to see what happens. wait a week out and see, the world health organization said they don't think there will be negative health impact. a lot of environmental people are pro nuclear and so i think it's something that may not get scut scut thed. >> let's go back and i'm glad you added that. back to the oil prices because the president did make a case, he said domestic production is the highest it's been in seven years. he said that they have begun issuing deep water drilling permits after the bp disaster. he talked about increased exploration and development in alaska and the atlantic.

everybody's shaking their heads. go ahead. >> if you talk to people in the oil production business they would like to explore a lot of places they're not permitted to explore. there's a huge commodity. oil prices are up. huge inflation and part of that is oil price inflation. so you know, people shouldn't overreact. it -- there was a huge issue in july and august of 2008. drill, baby, drill was not carrying a lot of states for john mccain so i'm not sure republicans are wise to demagog gas prices. they can make a broader case that inflation is on the way and gas prices are a leading indicator. >> it's interesting to see as gas prices remain a central issue over the summer, they're not going down. we'll see what the are at presit does. when he was a candidate he

called this a gimmick so i'm watching to see if the white house is concerned about this and comes up with a sort of short term gimmick, to use a word of his, of their owns. it's a weight around they are necks. >> what kind of gimmicks? i don't think raising gas tax is a solution. >> i don't think it is. but one of the things they're talking about is releasing reserves and things -- we'll see what they do. but short term there's very little they can do and it's not wise for republicans to demagog this but it's a problem for the person in charge. that's him. >> chris: final 30 seconds, you were shaking your head at the idea of tapping the petroleum reserve. >> people accused president clinton of helping al gore. it doesn't work. the reserve is there for

emergencies. not in an emergency. i read yesterday, representative noon as as a road map. we need to come together, two parties and get something comprehensive to deal with this long term. >> chris: i think we should put it off and put it off and wring our hands when there's a crisis. >> that's what we've gone been doing. >> chris: for 30, 40 years. when we come back, muammar qaddafi begins to turn the tide in libya. should the u.s. get more involved? across the country when the economy tumbled, jpmorgan chase set up new offices to work one-on-one with homeowners.

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>> across the board we're tightening the noose on qaddafi. he's more and more isolated internationally both through sanctions as well as an arms embargo. >> chris: that was president obama on friday claiming gains in the effort to oust muammar qaddafi. reports from the front line tells a different story. we're back with the panel. so yesterday the arab league called on the united nations to impose a no-fly zone and said qaddafi, the qaddafi regime lost it's sovereignty. what are the chance that will increase the likelihood of the international community intervening militarily. >> no one will go anything unless the united states does something. they're further long in calling for serious actions to remove

qaddafi an 'em enemy of ours with american blood on his hands. its humiliate for them to be ahead of us. if the obama administration needs them to intervene i'm for it if it helps the obama administration do something but we need to do something. >> chris: jeff, your sense as to whether this does provide the international cover for the obama administration and some of them other western countries, clearly the un won't do anything, but nato could act. >> it provides consider and increases the urgency of this administration and white house to ask. you cited defense secretary robert gates yesterday. it seemed he was saying imposing

a no-fly zone would be easier than before. he still thinks inne it's unwise but the president is inching closer to doing so but looking for any exit strategy to not do it but the coming week is critical. i'm not sure this president is eager. he's not eager to involve american pilots in this. they're still stressing how difficult it will be. so a very tough decision for him and he will do everything he can to not go down that path. >> chris: let me follow up on that with you, dana. it seemed to me as somebody who what happened the president's conference he was unconvinced about the effectiveness and need. i thought it was remarkable in a situation where people are getting slaughtered to talk about an lying the cost -- analyzing the cost benefit relationship. is he cautious or timid? it's confusing. it's hard to say. the key word in the sound bite

at the beginning is slowly tightening the noose. i think when this week which is director of national intelligence said in the long run qaddafi will prevail, that signaled this we might not be there for you. it's an admission the western powers are not able to do anything. we had tunisia, bahrain, nigeria and egypt and they never called for a security counsel resolution. now we have libya and we need the. >> chris: we weren't getting involved in the other countries. >> before that, nobody called and said let's gets together and help them build their democracy. our embassador missed the meetings on lib y whether timid or cautious it's confusing. >> chris: let me raise one of the questions that may be part

of the calculus for the president. given the advantage that qaddafi has, forget about air power, in military experience, in ammunition, in artillery, in tanks, even if you ground the jets, does that change the equation? >> that's the question. can you achieve what you want just from the air. are we going to set ourselves up with air strikes then suddenly now we have to send ground troops. that's what the administration is thinking about. in 1986 we ended you killing 100 people in a suburb. things happen that you don't predict. the administration is being rightfully cautious. i support humanitarian intervention, you don't like to see people slaughtered but they don't want to get into a situation where an american pilot gets shot down and held hostage. there's other things that can happen and i think they rightfully want this to be more of a world community responding than just the u.s.

>> chris: let's talk about it because clearly you fave -- favor the idea of military intervention. you pose the no-fly zone and it doesn't change the situation. >> you have to do more. you have to tell qaddafi he has to stop in his movement east and we're going use efforts to stop him from slaughters people as he moves east. we may take out his ships in the mediterranean and tanks. >> chris: for instance, as he starts to move and apparently taking the other towns on the way to ben zazi, you're saying we, nateo or the united states would take out his troops and prevent them from moving? >> we should recognize the opposition government as the arab league has and tell qaddafi we may not be able to remove him from the country he controls but we will not let him slaughter people and retake the country. if he takes control of the

country he will restart his terror activities and his nuclear program. he has chemicals weapons. the president has said qaddafi must go. how can you stand up as president and say that and do nothing about it. it will set back efforts elsewhere and be disaster. aside from the hewn man container disaster -- humanitarian disaster. >> chris: what happens if qaddafi holds power and brutally grinds down the rebels. what's the impact on president. >> the impact is severe. he's on a little bit of thin ice if you will there. more importantly i think they do not -- he's going to follow the advice or judgment of defense secretary gates. and they can do it but it's not the wise thing to do. that's the most important voice. >> chris: thank you, panel. see you next week.

check out panel plus where the group picks up with this discussion on our website, fox newssunday.com and we post a video but noon eastern. up next, our power player of the week. forty years ago, he wasn't worried about retirement. he'd yet to he of mutual funds, iras, or annuities. back then, he had something more important to do. he wasn't focused on his future ... at usaa we provide retirement solutions for our military, veterans and their families. from investments... to life insurce... to health care options. learn more with our free usaa retirement guide. call 877-242-usaa. those of who know grass doesn't turn green just because the calendar says to. and that a g difference can grow from a small budget.

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debating that james o'keefe has taken on big targets and come up with stunning results. once again he is our power player of the week. >> a youtube video, we would get them to say something funny but never wo in our wildest dreams. >> that was in 2009 marveling of his acorn videos that pushed congress to cut off federal funding. now, he has struck again, masterminding the sting of npr executives that was supposedly a rich muslim donors that show their political bias against the tea party. >> we wanted to find out what drives the 26-year-old o'keefe who describes himself not as a conservative but a progressive radical and what we discovered

was an outrage. >> if you use the rules against them and tease them and mock them and really destroy them. >> he became fed up with political correctness. so on st. patrick's day in 2004 he demanded they stop serving lucky charm cereal with the irish lepracan. >> four years ago he called planned parenthood offices to say he wanted to donate money to abort black babies so his child wouldn't be hurt by affirmative action. >> let's put this in the name of my son. >> chris: in 2009 when hannah called and proposed a sting acorn, o'keefe was on board. >> she said i can be a

prostitute. that's when i said, what if i'm a pimp and 15-year-old girls involved and made it morey dick louse. >> chris: last may he pleaded guilty as a misdemeanor for posing as a phone repairman. now, he has a new style, npr in the latest scandal and congress may oblige what he said was his secret hope. he says his friends always tell him the next sting will never work. >> they'll never say yes. they will say that is ridiculous absurd. every time they say yes. you know they are going to do it again. i disagree with them. i'll come up with a new strategy and they'll say yes. >> he has also