>> he's right on that. thanks for joining us on "inside politics." john king is back here on sunday. wolf starts right now. hello, i'm wolf blitzer. it's 1:00 p.m. here in washington. wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us. white house turmoil goes global as allies of president trump tell cnn they're worried about him. he's now doubling down on his threat to launch trade wars. and he's going it alone. plus, the west wing chaos takes a twist. why the president reportedly asked his chief of staff to push out his daughter ivanka and his son-in-law jared kushner. despite all this, attacking

vladimir putin, he invalidates the actor impersonating him. the chaos getting worse and going global. tomorrow marks a tumultuous week for president trump. his announcement of tariffs on steel and aluminum have rocked global markets, wall street as well. and his chief of staff has reportedly threatened to quit. let's start with tariffs, the controversy erupting in a tweet today. the president doubling down. tell our viewers the latest. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. the president was essentially doubling down on the comments he made yesterday, promising that tariffs are on the way against imports of steel and aluminum coming into the united states despite the human cry across washington. republicans all the way up to the house speaker, paul ryan, really asking the president to change his mind on this issue. you saw what happened in the

stock market yesterday. and then key u.s. allies like the u.k. putting out statements saying that they're reviewing this to see exactly what they're going to do in response. because this could absolutely spark a trade war. you saw the president trading earlier this morning that trade wars can be a good thing and that they're easy to win. that's obviously unnerving the markets even more and could potentially have the kind of repercussions that people are warning about. people inside the president's own camp are warning this could be a problem. gary cohen, the president's top legal adviser, had reportedly told the president behind the scenes not to do this, and there are some in the white house that said gary kohn may be so up sbet this he may resign over it. we saw this in the white house earlier in the week, but now it's spilling over to policy, wolf. >> i saw that they were meeting

over there. >> the white house chief of staff john kelly held a session with reporters. some of it was off the record but then some of it was placed on the record. we should point out that during this meeting, kelly essentially defended his handling of the rob porter scandal that we reported on so much over the last month. that's the former staff secretary who was ousted, of course, here at the white house after allegations of domestic abuse emerged. that, of course, raised this whole issue of interim security clearance the white house has been working with. so many staffers over here, more than a hundred. we had reported as many as 100 last year. during this session with reporters, john kelly was asked, well, did you consider resigning over your handling of all of this? and he said, quote, i had nothing even considering resigning over. but wolf, he acknowledged during this session with reporters that they did not handle themtselves

very well in terms of public response. they put out glowing statements, chief kelly and sarah sanders, were putting out glowing reports of rob porter as rob porter was putting out statements saying, i took some of these pictures that came out in the news media. at one session with reporters, john kelly said, quote, we didn't cover ourselves in glory in terms of how we handled that on wednesday morning, talking about the day he stepped down. to hear from the chief of staff obviously is important. and wolf, one final thing in terms of these interim security clearances the white house has been dealing with, you don't want jared kushner or ivanka trump dealing with security clearances. john kelly said he was having his eyes opened last year with the number of staffers working

with security clearances. he said they have way too many people at the white houseworking on those security clearances. >> i'm sure we'll get more on the briefing. the president is also said to be deeply frustrated over the problems that diagnosing his. maggie haber man of the "new york times" report on yet another possible plot twist. the president turning to his chief of staff john kelly and actually asking him to remove. >> this is really less about ivanka trump. it is. this is all people taking attacks on me and my daughter. this is terrible. however, jared kushner is

someone with whom he is now frustrated. he goes back and forth about feeling bad about what happened and and he's getting tons of attention on his own. he's saying jared is getting killed, jared is getting killed. he's never saying it with a form of extension or this is heather looking at me. trump doesn't like negative headlines that could be a problem for him. now he has a negative headline in droves. >> senator, thank you so much for joining us. >> good afternoon, wolf. >> we're going to talk about the possibility of significant gun control legislation in just a

few moments. first, let's go through news of the day. what do you make, first of all, of that report of the "new york times" that we just heard maggie hab haberman suggesting that the president may be working behind the scenes with staff to push up his son and daughter? >> you don't know how much veracity any of this has because different people in the white house tell reporters different things. i will say this. i've served on six administrations. i've never seen such chaos, and it means a lot because the world is changing. republicans are saying, what is he doing? on guns he changed around completely. who knows what he'll do tomorrow morning? >> they got half a million

dollars in loans from various banking institutions and money lenders after white house meetings, after kushner actually met with some of those company officials. what red flags does that raise for you? >> well, this administration, saying they're going to come in and clean up the swamp, have made the swamp worse because there are so many people in this administration who have financial interests, broad financial interests, not the least of which the president himself, and they intersect with what the president has to do. when you come into the administration, you need to get rid of financial entanglements so there wouldn't be an appearance of a conflict of interest. this administration seems blind to that, immune to that, and it just leads them only to more trouble. i just don't get it. there is almost a view that we can treat ourselves ethically

different than anybody else. the chickens always come home to roost and they are right now. >> do you think ivanka trump and jared kushner should remain in the white house? >> i'm not going to make those personnel decisions. i think they both ought to divest themselves of any real estate or other holdings they might have. at the very minimum, it looks like there is an appearance of a conflict. >> as you know, some allies of the president, they're expressing deep concern that hope hicks is leaving. our own gloria borger spoke with one of those allies pointing out that he's know the president for decades. what's your take? you've known the president for decades as well. >> well, you know, running a real estate company in almost a solo operation way is a heck of a lot different than being

president of the united states, and the amount of chaos in this white house, the amount of infighting in this white house, and frankly, the fact they have so many positions unfilled is just incredible. rumor has it one of the reasons they wanted to hang onto porter, even after some of the reporting, was they had no place else to do the work. this is really damaging whether you're a democrat or republican, liberal or conservative. you love the country. you don't want to see a white house that seems to be so chaotic, and so filled with contradicto contradictory. people in america and people around the world wonder if there is any leadership at all coming from the president. >> let's get to guns. the president had that

extraordinary session on guns with republicans and democrats earlier in the week. at times he sounded more like a democrat than a leader of the republican party. but last night he met with leaders. national rifle association. the group's tweeted, i had a great meeting tonight with blank. -- real donald trump and vp. we all want safe schools, mental health reform and to keep guns away from dangerous people. potus and vpotus support the second amendment, support strong due process and don't want gun control. what do you think of this tweet? >> he believes one thing one day and then seems to contradict himself. with the bipartisan group and

the camera lights on, his instincts are to do the right thing, to make sure felons and those adjudicated mentally ill couldn't get guns by closing these loopholes of gun shows and on-line purchases. that was the right thing to do, both substantively, because it would have changed thousands of lives, and politically, because 90% of america is for it. then the hard right puts pressure on him, in this case the nra, and he does a total 180-degree flip. it makes it sound like when america really needs something, when america is crying out to prevent future parklands, the president just succumbs to the pressure group that puts the moe most heat on him, in this case the nra. >> what's the likelihood of congress, the senate and the house, passing any kind of gun legislation following the parkland school massacre?

>> i would say two things. first, leader mcconnell and speaker ryan are so afraid of the nra, as are most of their members, that unless the president gives them cover saying he's for it, it's very hard to see getting anything else done, maybe until the congress changes in a year after the elections. but the second thing i would say is this. don't underestimate the power of these kids. i've been focused on this issue for a long time. i was author of the brady law in congress when i was a congressman back in the mid-'90s. i've never seen anything like this. i've never seen so many people in different walks of life, in different political per swass telling me we. the fact that logical be a and 70 cities around the country. duck this issue at their own

peril. americans are fed up that the do doctrine air, which is to do nothing and keep allowing people to get guns, is so infuriating to so many americans that i believe trump and the republican leadership may have no choice but to switch their leadership in the next month or two. i believe there may be something that can being done. >> the president spread that out with democrats and republicans in the white house earlier in the week that he will convince the republicans and leadership in the house to follow suit and pass significant gun control legislation? >> i think the leaders, the

republican leaders of the house and senate, know that politically their position is downward and -- backward and wrong. but they're so afraid of the nra, they're afraid to move and do the right thing. i think if the president were to come out and say, it could happen. it is on the president's back and no one else's. but that is the fear of the nra that's in the heart and souls of the republican. >> the president today doubling down on his plans to kbroez tariff on steel and aluminum. he tweeted this today. he said that trade wars are good and easy to win. how worried are you, if you are worried, about his position on these tariffs, that it could set off a trade war and also result

in much higher costs for american consumers, that products that rely on aluminum and steel. >> well, first, to say that trade wars are a good thing is just wrong. economic history shows it's wrong. china has taken very great advantage of the united states. and to do nothing, i think also, hurts america in. you have to do it in a focused way. the problem i have with china is is they're stealing our most. they sort of diterred on that issue. on this issue, on steel and aluminum sfrm, we don't know where the president is going to

come. they could come up with something as early as tomorrow. we'll have to see how they implement this and then make a judgment on it. i'm not sure he's going to stick with this one, either. >> by the way, china is not a major exporter of aluminum and steel to the united states. canada is a major exporter of aluminum and steel to the united states. that's why it's causing some initial concern. >> the biggest issue with china, the crown jewel of america, is our intellectual property. we come up with all these great ideas. china doesn't let us use those ideas to sell products in china. instead china tries to steal the intellectual property of america. if i had to pick one place to come down on china, it would be that. let's get to another sensitive issue. your republican colleague utah senator orrin hatch had some

words for obamacare. listen to this. >> that was the stupidest, dumbass deal i've ever seen. some of you may have loved it. if you do, you're some of the stupidest, dumbass people i've ever met. and there are a lot of them on capitol hill from time to time. >> the latest poll shows obama's approval ratings are at their hi highest? what do you say to senator hodge? >> obamacare is not perfect, but the overwhelming majority of americans say don't repeal it, make it better. when republicans tried to repeal it, they can't, because it's done a lot of good. we have preexisting conditions

that is covered. we have women's health that is covered. we have 30 million people who might not have gotten coverage or just have skimpy coverage now have coverage. these are all good things. orrin hatch, i think, is frustrated. he's usually a good man, but i guess he's frustrated because the american people believe what's been drummed into the head of republicans. repeal it, repeal it, repeal it. let's move on. there are ways we could make things better. >> you've caused quite a stir. let me get your reaction to

this. you caused a stir. there was a vote in the senate of 69-29. you were one of the 29 who voted against him. i want to give you a chance to explain what you meant by that t t. >> that was right wing radio who never really tells the truth distorting what i had said. what i said is this, that barack obama had nominated, i think as early as 2013, two people for this seat. and our republican senators from south carolina blocked them with holding of the blue slip, which has been a tradition. so this seat and two people no,

ma'am we need the bench to have real diversity. the president's record in nominating people of the law. and the fact they held up two people for so long and now want to get their fellow to come in made no sense. and compounding the injury was the lack of diversity on the bench. >> was this payback because of the earlier action against the two african-american nominees? >> absolutely not. it was saying i thought this nominee was not a very good nominee to begin with. but second, it's really wrong to hold a seat vacant for four years, then change the rules, and then say we're going to fill the bench just with people we want. there ought to be some compromise here. >> senator schumer, thanks so much for joining us. >> great to be with you, and wolf, have a great afternoon.

>> you, too. great to be with you. >> congressman, thanks so much as usual for joining us. what do you make of the senate minority leader chuck schumer, what he just said about chaos in the west wing of the white house? >> well, i think there is a little sinner uncertainty in th wing. i don't work there. i don't have more insight than other people. i do think sometimes we get an exaggerated perspective of some of that, something that would have come and gone after the previous administration get a lot of emphasis and a lot of attention. there are times there is a little bit of turmoil. i don't think that's terribly unheard of. and going smoothly all the time,

i think that would be unusual. but at the end of the day, they have a way of working themselves out. i don't spend time on it, wolf, i think there are more important issues i could focus my time on. >> what's going on in the west wing and the oval office. >> jared kushner's team is pushing back against the various stories about the son-in-law's meetings with companies followed thereafter by major loans to kushner's family real estate business. is that at all troubling to you? >> i don't know that it is. maybe as we learn more, it could be. i can tell you when we had these stories in the clinton foundation with hillary clinton sitting as secretary of state, i thought the more we learn about that, the better it is. transparency is better for the american people. i would say that same thing would apply here. we should know and learn as much as we can about this. my understanding is that mr.

kushner no longer controls or makes decisions regarding his companies. there has been that separation. but even with that being the case, once again, i think the more information we have, the better that is for the american people. >> and the same thing ivanka trump surrounding her business dealings? >> i think it would be consistent throughout. my understanding is all the members of the trump family have separated themselves from those business dealings chl. look, anyone who comes to the white house, almost all of them, have been dealing with something already. they knew that before voting for donald trump, but just as i want the others to be transparent. there is no evidence, by the way, that they haven't been. there's no evidence that it's quid pro quo at all.

i know that sounds exciting, but there's no evidence that's been the case. let's go ahead and see what the answers are. i suspect at the end of the day, it probably won't amount to much. >> your intelligence committee heard from hope hicks, the president's now soon to be foreign director this week. she spoke about what were described as white lies. talk about the context of that statement, whether urng it's importan -- you think it's important, whether it's overblown. you were there and for nine hours she committed before the committee. >> i don't think anyone was there for the whole thing, but i know what you're talking about and i'm glad we get a chance to talk about that. it truly was a setup of this witness who was trying to be forthright and honest. the question was, it was so

broad, have you ever felt like you wanted to be deceitful? she said, there is nobody who ever said we were 100% honest. we really need to deal with these. we're talking about hacking of the dnc. have you ever been encouraged to be deceitful and dishonest in any way, and she was adamant. no, absolutely not. the president has never, ever encouraged me to be dishonest or anything else but truthful regarding these issues. then she elaborated. b or something that just happens in the course of day-to-day life that have been described as white lies and yet the headline is she is being deceitful for

the president. once again, as soon as she said that, there were people leaving the committee to go out and talk to the media about this. it's unfortunate, because she truly was trying to be honest with us. there is no reason to be deceitful of these things. >> you're watching closely guns in america. we heard what the president had to say during that extraordinary televised meeting with support for comprehensive background checks. he talked about the age limit, raising the age to 21 to purchase certain kinds of rifles. he spoke about concealed carry. that won't fly right now even though steve scalise, the majority whip, says, you have to include that as well. now he seems to be backpedaling

a bit. do you know where the president stands on these gun-related issues? >> no, i don't know, and i haven't had a chance to talk to him about it. i think the more important question is where does the house stand? i was listening to mr. schumer's attack. once again, i'm terrified of what's happening. i don't think we're afraid of the nra or any other organization. what we want to do is do something that will actually help. many times in these conversations, it becomes overly politicized and the suggestions are things that won't help. if it will help -- and by the way, i think there are some. after the shooting, i said the very next day, and he's saying

there won't be a ban on automatic weapons. one of the things we have to concentrate on is actually enforcing current laws we've seen with breakdown after breakdown. i look forward to this conversation. i think that we really reached a tipping point in this last straty where many, many people you can get will help. >> senator schumer believes there will be a tipping. congressman stewart, thanks as usual for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. up next, we'll have more on the breaking news. the white house chief of staff john kelly offering a fresh defense of his handling of the rob porter scandal, arguing that he h

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we're following the breaking news, the white house chief of staff john kelly defending himself in the wake of the rob porter scandal, the former white house aide accused of beating two of his ex-wives. jase while ago kelly once again insisting to reporters he was not aware of the serious accusations against porter until the day before the story broke. he did admit, however, that white house staffers, in his words, quote, did not cover ourselves in glory with how they handle the fallout. let's bring in john gregory and our chief legal analyst gloria borger. he brought some in on background, some in off the record and he made these points. >> i think he felt the need to defend himself. i think what he's trying to do is wipe the slate clean here. you know, you've had hope hicks leave. she was involved in writing the rob porter statement. i think kelly wants to kind of

defend himself. i don't think he wanted to go out and do it publicly and have a press conference, so this is something members of the white house staff very often do in other administrations. and i think he felt the need to kind of clear things up with reporters, although i'm not so sure it did. >> he also said there is no reason for him to even consider resigning and no reason to have considered resigning. >> well, because the storm has passed here and they're on to new scandals. that's the good thing about being chief of staff in a white house that is in such disarray historically that you can just wait for the next storm to come on. he weathered this one and obviously the boss doesn't want him to go. but what took so long to be so accountable? i don't think he deserves a gold medal for bringing in reporters to explain himself this far after the fact. then to say, well, there was never anything wrong here but we didn't cover ourselves in glory. tell it to us straight. there was a breakdown here, this

thing was mishandled. it wasn't just him. you had jared kushner who had restricted clearance. you had to go back to the president's son-in-law who was there because of nepotism and dial back his clearance. this thing is a mess. he's chief of staff at a time when you have a president setting new marks for how how erratic he can be. it doesn't make his sense of control look any better. maybe this is an area where he wanted to clear things up. >> gloria made notice of the turmoil going on in the white house right now. we'll talk about that and a lot more right after the quick break. i can lock in moisture... and keep us protected. we've got to have each other's backs... and fronts. cerave. what your skin craves.

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before that. joining us now from san francisco is john podesta. he's a former white house chief of staffer, then president bill clinton, former counselor to then-president barack obama and former chairman for the hillary clinton campaign. john, thanks so much for joining us. first of all, as a former chief of staff at the white house, what do you think of john kelly saying he had no idea about the rob porter scandal until february 6 as it was breaking? >> well, you know, if he says it, you know, maybe we can believe him, but the white house knew about it at least since last september. the fbi knew about it since january of the time they came in. and i think they must have told the white house security office and the white house counsel, mr. mcghan, knew about it for many months. they had hundreds of security clearances. he said they became concerned

about it but they didn't do anything about it until "the daily mail" reported the facts on mr. porter. so i think way beyond they didn't cover themselves in glory, they really let this problem fester. they didn't do anything about it, and i think that, you know, it shows a white house that's really not functioning properly. >> kelly joked yesterday -- and i ask you this because you're a former white house chief of staff -- that his job is a punishment from god. what do you think of all the chaos that's currently surrounding kelly and so many others in the west wing? >> look, i think everybody who served in that office knows it's tough duty and it's a tough job. but general kelly was brought in to provide order in the white house, and if this is what order looks like, what do you think chaos looks like? i mean, it's really, i think, gotten really, particularly in the last couple weeks, it's gotten worse, and i think it may get worse still, because we have reports now that gary cohn may

leave as a result of the tariffs that the president has imposed over his advice, we have reports that general mcmaster, the national security adviser, is getting pushed out, the president evidently is talking to general kelly about pushing out -- i guess he doesn't want to talk to him directly, but pushing out jared kushner and his own daughter ivanka trump. so i think, you know, things are just unspooling there, and i think the fact that we see the president throughout this week coming up and really surprising his staff time and again on policy matters is an indication that there is no process left in the white house. >> let me ask you about all the russian warnings, putin warnings, as they unfolded yesterday from -- involving a nuclear capabilities, president putin touting new additions to

his nuclear arsenal, what he calls invincible missiles. listen to this. >> as a matter of fact, every single weapon system discussed today easily surpasses and a voids an anti-missile defense system. all of those tests were successful. it's just each of these weapon systems is at a different stage of readiness. one of them is already on combat duty. it's with troops. >> what do you think of putin's claims? >> well, look, there's been some dispute. he only showed an animation of a particular system he was talking about. but i take this very seriously. i think he's been emboldened, i think, as a failure to push back against russia by this administration, particularly the president. the head of nsa said they've been told to do nothing special to prepare for the 2018 election. i think putin feels emboldened

and he's playing to the rhetoric. part of that is to his own public in advance of his own fake reelection that will occur soon. but i think this is very serious. i think he feels free to do it. normally i think if he had a president in the white house who was applying pressure for the kinds of things he did, including interfering in the 2016 election, he wouldn't probably go out and make that statement. but right now i think he feels no constraint on doing it. >> the president personally hasn't said anything about putin's latest statements on nuclear threats. but the state department and the white house press secretary, sarah sanders, they both weighed in with strong statements on the nuclear claims by putin. he hasn't -- what you're saying is you want to hear directly from the president, with the state department, the national security council, others within

the security department, what they say? >> when the president of russia directly threatens the united states, i would take that threat seriously, and you would think the president would respond. but as has been true for, you know, two years, the president doesn't seem to ever want to push back on president putin. now, look, i think the reality is, we have very strong defenses, we have the nuclear triad. i think president putin is overstating the case about what he can actually accomplish. but, you know, we're -- you know, that atomic clock is ticking closer to midnight because of the zaniness and craziness with which we're conducting foreign policy these days. >> you don't have confidence in the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, the national security adviser? >> well, i have confidence -- i think general mattis is doing a terrific job. as i said, general mcmaster

seems like he's getting pushed out. you don't know whether secretary tillerson ever talks to the president. but at the end of the day, the commander in chief is vested in one man, and that's donald trump. so i think that general mattis will give him good advice, but whether he takes that advice or not is a different story. >> let me give you a chance to respond to the latest attacks and other conservatives being named by sources in the paul manafort indictment, the former trump campaign chairman. just over a week ago, president trump tweeted, and i'm reading this from the presidential tweet. the only collusion was between russia and crooked h, crooked hillary. remember the dirty dossier, uranium speeches, e-mails and the podesta company. i want to give you a chance, john, to respond to the president's tweet.

>> first of all, wolf, i don't have anything to do with the company and haven't for 15 years. i think that, you know, if i had been asked for advice, i would have told my brother not to get involved with mr. gates. but i think that -- i don't think that this is a matter that's being actively pursued, but i think the president is trying to change the subject. that's what he always does. when the noose tightens, when there is reporting that finally the special counsel mr. mueller is looking at the hacking of my e-mails, which was a crime, the hacking of the dnc e-mails, that was a crime. in 20 at who might have known and who might have had advantage knowledge, including the president of the united states, about both the hacking and the release of those matters. then he tries to change the

subject. he tries to throw it off on something else. i don't think my brother did anything wrong at the end of the day, and i think that will be shown. he's just trying to -- he kind of throws fairy dust in other directions that keeps breitbart and fox news able to talk about something. it is what it is. >> john, what evidence do you have that the then-candidate donald trump had advance knowledge of the hacking of your account and the dnc? >> i didn't say that he did, but i'm saying that mr. mueller seems to be interested in looking into that, and he's asking witnesses, according to nbc news, about whether he may have had some advance knowledge. obviously we have circumstantial evidence, including, you know, the things that roger stone, his close friend, was saying in august in advance of the release of the e-mails that were stolen

from my account. >> one final question. how does it feel to be attacked on twitter and elsewhere by the president of the united states? >> oh, you know, i've sort of gotten used to it, wolf. i think for the fact that the president from the oval office constantly attacks private citizens says more about him than the people he's attacking. at the end of the day it's a tough business and i've got pretty thick skin. >> john poddesta, thanks for joining us. >> thanks, wolf. >> gloria borgeer is here with us. president's allies are worried that the turmoil in the west wing may just be the beginning and potentially could send the president on a downward spiral. we'll discuss that when we come back. and then i learn type 2 diabetes puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk?

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president trump's allies are deeply worried about him right now, saying they're becoming increasingly isolated. telling one source, i'm quoting now, something is very wrong. cnn's chief political analyst gloria borgeer and david gregory with back with us. an excellent piece on cnn.com, breaking it all down. we've gone through it before but you say something feels different this time. >> talking through friends of his who have known him for quite some time, they tell me they're worried about him because they say this has a different feel. they say he is spiraling, lashing out, out of control. this has economic impact, talking about his decision on tariffs and said something is very wrong here.

he's blaming everybody else for his problems, then he confuses people by what side of an issue he's going to be on. one day he's for saving dreamers, the next day not so fast. so, the whole thing needs to be just growing a little too chaotic for their comfort level. and they like donald trump. >> you wrote the sentence that certainly jumped out at me. not since richard nixon started talking to the portraits on the walls of the west wing has a president seemed so alone against the world. >> hope hicks is leaving. melania is not so happy with him these days after the stormy daniels story. there is friction with jared and

ivanka. and kelly keeps him isolated to keep him on track. >> i think there's a lot of problems. if you look at how erratic the president is personally, professionally, he has no experience in government. and so the great promise of him is that he would come in, as an outsider, and stay as an outsider, even as the ultimate insider. the problem is the recklessness means that people around him, let alone people on the hill, let alone foreign governments can't put any stock in what he actually says or what he actually believes. now, we were told in one important measure that the stock market was a sign of his fabulous leadership. well, guess what, he is tanking the stock market with this tariff decision. and the dow, which was about 27,000, is now 24 and change. thank you, mr. president, because you said that's how we should judge you. i'm just going by what you said and here we are, after your decision. so i think in addition to that,

this kind of -- nobody he will listen to who will say, no, mr. president, you cannot attack the justice department and its independents. when process breaks down like this and there's a real crisis involving life and death, a president in this condition should make people worry even if you like him. i think that's the bulk of your reporting. >> and i keep saying this these are people who know him well and have watched him for years. one of them said to me, look, the president reacts to these situations differently for most of us, because he enjoys the chaos. but sometimes, as david points out, in a dangerous situation, you cannot govern chaotically. by the way, where is the governing going on? where are the solutions that he wants? he's getting in his own way now because he has these televised meetings which seem to sound great and then go nowhere. >> one point on that. let's remember, to his credit,

this candidate, who promised building a border wall, he could have had it. he could have achieved a signature promise. he let it pass. he didn't get a major bill on immigration, which i think would have made him look great. now he has an opportunity on guns. who knows where he is. i don't believe when he says he's going to take on the nra and doesn't worry about them. we've seen this movie before. >> you saw the maggie haberman report this is very strange. that the president in a macheavelian way is working with kelly to oust his daughter and son-in-law. >> i've heard that the president has grown frustrated with all the headlines about everyone regarding russia. and foreign entities. then he tells kelly he wants him

to handle this. it's hard for me to see how jared does the job he has been doing without substantial clearance. the president has said to his friends, jared and ivanka are taking a lot of hits here in washington. maybe it's best. >> had a pretty good life in new york. maybe it's best for them to go back. thanks very much. that's it for me. the news continues right now. top of the hour. i'm briana keilar. chief of staff john chill meeting with reporters a short time ago and defending himself for his role in the rob porter scandal. abby philip, what's kelly saying? >> reporter: defending his reaction to this porter scandal. he is saying, going back over this timeline that he first learned of these