i want to bring back danielle dimartino booth and introduce main street asset management erin gibbs. erin, get your comment on sheila bair's comments. if we allow rates to go higher, forget about zero interest rates stuff, it would be better for society. would wall street go nuts with the notion of no free money? >> i think we're finally coming to grips with that. there is still a lot of projections say the risk-free rate, the normal rate should be 2 1/2, 2.7, fed is for 5.25 to 5.5. i think getting to the idea maybe the long-term risk rate should be 4%, something much higher will take quite a while for wall street to really fully digest. this is going to be much higher for a very long period of time, not just one year, not just two years, but it could be potentially for the next decade. charles: you like certain small caps here over large caps at this point? >> i think we have gotten to the point, and, to the prior guest's point about reshoring, looking at companies within the u.s. that can really take advantage. some of the small caps are really oversold. we're talking some compani