bruce ivins, he was in the group. he blamed literally every single one of his other coworkers for the attack. he would say, well, yeah, i'm the foremost expert on anthrax and i could see why they thought it might be me, but it's not. it isn't me. it isn't me. ivins is not the only person who works at usamriid so you have to eliminate people, you have to look at even their access to the lab. each laboratory had a magnetic reader, so you card in and you card out. and the security office kept those records. right before each of the two mailings that we knew about, ivins had changed his pattern of working in the laboratory. and before each mailing, he had spent a lot of time in the middle of the night inside those laboratories. he had never done that before. so then the agents went in to interrogate him further. and we began to see that, yeah, this image that we had of him was only a surface level thing. in fact, bruce did have a dark side. he had fixations that lasted for years. he had a fixation with kappa kappa gamma,