captioning spsored by macneilehrer productions >> woodruff: good eving, i'm judy woouff. on t newshour this friday the lead story is, demonsttions and confrontations in ir with govement sponsored anti-israel rallies and oppositionrotests. then we have the oer news of the da has the federal government been tough enoughn financial instutions? jeffrey brown takes a look, e year after theeltdown. fred de m lazaro reports on india's struggle to feedts fast-growing pulation.

the analysis of david brooksnd ruth marcus, fling in for mark ields. anthe prospects for a global deal on climate chan, margaret warneralks to the united nations' negotiator. major funding for thnewshour with jimehrer is provided by: ♪ hard rock guitar riff playing ) >> were intel, spsors of tomorrow. >> 150ears of financial strength and the experience an established iestment firm haveome together.

wachovia securits is now wells fao advisors. the financial visors nearby annationwide. with thedvice and planning expertise to help you address toy's unique challenges, we're with you. wachov securities is now wells fargo advisors. togeer, we'll go far. >> chevron. is is the power of human energy. and the william and flor hewlett foundati, working to solvsocial and environmental problems at home and aund the world. and with the ongoingupport of these stitutions and fodations. d... this programas made possible by the corporation for public broadcastin and by contributions tyour pbs station om viewers like you. thank you.

>> wdruff: a sea of people filled the streets oiran's catal today in competing mass demonstrations. crow of opposition supporters tued out to compete with pro- government demonsttions. lindsey hilsum of indendent televisionews narrates our ad story report. >> reporter: the oicial jerusalem y rally on the streets of tehn, the crowd shouting dea to america and ath to israel. this is e iranian government's annual bid for wor leadership in figing the jewish state, and championing the causof palestinians, but this year e national flag was reaced in much of the city bthe green bannerf the opposition. journalists wen't allowed to film this,o some of the tens of thousands of demonstrator used tir mobile phones to show how they hijackethe official

evt to protest against the government. they shoutednot for gaza, not for lebanon, we will d for iran. hundreds, maybe thousand of anian opposition leaders and protestors have be imprisoned since what they e as a rigged election in june. streets demonstrions have been suppressed sinceid-july, but today's huge turnouthows that the opsition movement hasn't been quashed. in a speech ahead friday prayers, president ahminejad repeat his well-worn anti- israel rhetori once again denyg the truth of the holocaust. >> ( translat ): the pretext for the creation of the ziont regime is fals it is a lie based on a unprovable and mhical claim.

>> reporr: as the crowd roared ritualpproval, he tried to identifyis political opponents with western countes which in his viewnconditionally back israel. >> ( translated ): wesrn countriesupport israeli crimes, but when it mes to cotries like us, where a one hundred percent free election was held, they find soone to shout throh his mouth that eedom in iran has been damaged. >> rorter: the main opposition leader, mir hossein mousavi, appeared at the denstration, he waspparently forcedo leave by pro gernment crowds. anotr opposition figure, mehdi karroubi was mobbed supporters. their ally, former president khatami was aprently attacked, s clothes ripped and his turban pulled off.

militaryelicopters flew over the capital, the crowds bod. the size of an-government protests today shows that ir has changed, butresident ahmadined has not. >> woodruff: both present obama and irian president ahdinejad will be at the united nations in new yo next week. but u.s. aassador susan rice said today s does not expect . obama to meet with the iranian leader. >> woodruff: in otr news today, rusan prime minister putin welcomed a u.s. cision to alter plans f a missile defense systemn poland and the ech republic. instead,he u.s. will deploy interceptor missilesn ships off soutrn europe. in moscow, putin said,i very much hope at this correct and brave decision will be folwed by oths." in washington,.s. secretary of state clinton defended theove against compints it will leave much of europe exposed.

>> i knowe heard criticism of this plan fom some quarters am t much of that criticm is not yet connected the fac. we are not, quote, shelving misse desense -- defense. we are deploying missile defense sooner tn the bush admistration planned to do sond we are deploying a more comehensive system. >> woodruf but some leaders in poland and the czech repubc charged the u. decision leaves em vulnerable to pressure fr russia. thhead of the polish national security office sa the u.s. renegeon its deal, the fact is the agreement siped last year in aust will not be plemented. and thfact that time has run t for the new agement which is 6 to 7 ars old gives us some doubts. leaves a big question ma on its realization. it is a long time wn you remember that inll countries, there cld be big changes in high positions.

woodruff: meanwhile in brussels, the head of to called for the.s., russia, and to to link their missile defense systems, as a y to ward off fute threats. in afgnistan, the toll for u.s. and "nato" forces greby 2 today. authorities announced on american and oneanadian soldier re killed in roadside bombgs on thursday. six italian soldierslso died yesterday, in a bombinin kabul. a suicide bombing pakistan has kill 29 people and injured 55 more. e car exploded in front of a 2-story hotel the outskirts of kohat ithe northwest of kistan. it w the second attack in the area in two days. insuents in somalia warned today they will carry oumore attacks. 21 peopldied yesterday a pair of suicide car bombings imogadishu, the catal. 17 of the victims re peacekeepers fm the african unn.

an islamist grousaid it was revee for a u.s. raid that killed an al-qaeda leadeon monday. seven former heads of the a want to end a iminal probe of rsh interrogations in the bu years. they made the request today a letter to present obama. they warnethe investigation will prompt otr countries to st cooperating in counter- terror operations. irvingristol known as the godfather of neo-conservatm died today in shington. the political writer and publisher had lungancer. kristol ce described himself as a liberalmugged by realit. edited a number of conservative publitions and wrote veral books. irving kristol w 89 years old. on wl street today the dow jones industrial arage gained 36 pnts to close at 9820. the nasdaq rose points to close ove 2132.

for the week, bothhe dow and the naaq gained more than 2%. >> wdruff: and still to come on theewshour tonight: india's food crisis; brookand marcus; and the u.n. climate chae summit. that follows our looat the regulationf the financial world, one year after the meltdown. and to jeffrey brown. >> reporter: lehman others had declar bankruptcy. the government hadumped tens of bilons of dollars into insurae giant aig, and the market plunged amid question about e real value of trillions of dollars of securities. that was the situaon one chaotic we a year ago. >> seriousonsequences from misjudgement. >> rorter: a year later, various proposals are beinput

forth in coness and elsewhere to change some wall street habits. day, for example, the federa reserve confirmeto the newshour a other news orgazations that it plans to place curbs on compension policies at jor banks. the rules would fect traders, d-level and top executives, and are intended tdiscourage exssive risk-taking that is often tied to pay. this afteron, president obama's toeconomic adviser, lawrenceummers, echoed that sentiment a speech at geortown. more broadly, he called fo tougher oversight of wal reet, to prevent the need fo future bailouts&h >> iis wrong that thousands of taxpayers shoulde at risk that forces tm to risk money or accept catastrophic failure. >> becauseur system gives thority those choice but to commit taxpayer money or to accept collapse d chaos. for its part congress may

take upegislation later this fall. congss may take up legislation later this fall. moren wall street and regulation now, from: lynn stout, professor of corporatand securities law at the ucla; robert glauber, lecturer in public policy at harvard's kennedy scho of government and formec.e.o. of the national associationf securities dears, he served in the treasury department unr fit president bush; and gretch morgenson, assistant business and financial etor and a columnist at the "w york times." lynn stout, explain e problem the feis trying to solve with measures le this latest one, focusing ohow people at fincial institutions are paid. >> well, think one of t basic proble that lead to the baing crisis in the fall of 2 o 008 can be summedp with the phrase short rmism. you had a lot of bank executives who were very much focused on getting their boses for the end of the year. and as a result they tk on a lot of risks, not ally thinks about t long-term consequenc. anso i think the federal serve is making the right

move at ast looking at the extent to which pay for rformance which is inrpreted as pay pore this year's performance contrited to excessive risk-taking. at t same time, i tink what has not yeteen recognized by the federal reserve by lawmakers gerally is tat executives are not the only players we need to ink about when we thinabout excessive incentives for short termism. many investors may have played a rle too. >> reporter: well, gretchen re again son, how do you see where we a a year later, is it business as ual, i note you wrote i a recent colum that even though lamitous lending pracces laid waste to the nation's econo, surprising little has changed. talk abo what you see on walltreet, before we get to the regulators, what do you see on wall seet? >> well,ee obviously many of the banks have far less leverage on their books than ty did. meaning that they are rrowing way less thanthey did a year ago and before which really was the cause of the huge problem.

theyad taken too much risks, borrowed too much money to do so, and that really spankethem. so tt's changed. but that is a marketdriven change. and i think what' intereing is that you do not see regulatorchange in three really iortant areas. one inhe derivatives market which is an enormous market that is really a private contract between ople where there is really no oveight at all. and credit derivatives were really behind some o the ggest failures, in fact, the ai collapse. so we see no new regution on that. there have been proposa but nothing has ourse been instituted. that market remains the same and sort of unchecked. and we seeo change at all in t credit rating agenes and the orsight of them. anreally i think theyre at the centre of this problem where they really rated securiti far too high. saidhat they we way less

risky than ty ultimately rned out to be. sohat also is a change that whave not seen anythingbout. >> rorter: all right, robe glauber, do yo see changes that address t kind of problems thatead to the financial crisi >>ell, in terms the risk behavior on wall strt, gretchen isight. leverage is down but the aggregate risksn't down a wol lot all and that's quite surprising. i think one of the reasons is quite ironic. because the governnt is a good job of preventing this from becoming a total catastroph memories are ry short. and these people who basically live offf risk, this is how you make ney, and of cour the governme knows and controls that amountf risk, the people have come back to the pond much more quickly th some pele would have thought. i think on the other issue of regulatory change, that hasn't happened yet. greten's right. i thk that therere a number of issues that have to be addresd. they've gotten i think stopped in congress because theyre worried about heth care. they'll get to them. hope they get to among

others the ones heentioned, credit swaps. >> reporter: when theyet to them is the then a potential lance problem of dealing with the excessive risk wle not killing off the good risk, e good risk-taking? >> jeffre of course you are complely right. the fincial services industry is an extraordinarily important industry forhe u.s. and we do it very well. whate have to do is t the balance risknd prophetright -- profit right, t hope is that fm all of this, when ey pass some of these w pieces of legislation, they don't overdo it. they can it right. theye done it wrong on a number of occasions but they can do it right and i ver much hope they d i ho they start with, for example, worryingbout credit defau swaps. i hope that they do somethingbout the abity of governments t close down so of these big bank holding cpanies and firms like lehman broters in a

safe w rather than ha to rely on the market bankruptcy pcess working. and th, of course, there is this whole question of systemic risk. and whether theed will be a systemic risk rulator and whetherongress will approve th. >> well, ln stout, what do you want to see. you ised this short termm as you called it and ard what the oths said about wh hasn't happed ye so what do you tnk can happen now? >>ell, i think the short termism also is relaed to thexcessive use of derivatives to take speculative positions. i think one ofhe reasons why so man banks started up proprietary trading divions that trades in devatives and one o the reasons wi they took ono much ris something not only were the execives thinking about next year bonuses but lot of the investors in themarket were only thinking a yr ahead as well. shareholders have be enjoying ingreas-- increasing pow in recent years to iluence boards and compan executives. and a lot of shareholders particularlyedge funds and some actively managed mutual

fundtend to fus only 11, 12 mths down the road. and ey were perfect happto see a lot of thes risks being tak on as long as they at least theyhoped, would be ablto sell before theisks came home to roost, as it were. and alson derivatives, i do think one thing that s been misseis that one of the reass can why the derivatives mark has becomeo large is becau congress passea statute in 2000 that largely deregulated derivatives. and again there are proposals to try and batrack a little bitnd bring them under the eyef a watchful regulators. but right now some of e most commonly spoen of proposals have enoous loholes in them. sot does look like ll streets thinking tha if they can just lie l, they may be able to press the set button and start the party all over again. and it's really up to congress to tr andrevent that from haening. >> reporter: well,retchen, that is what i wand to bring you in o as a trained obrver of wall street and whathappens in washingto if so many of these things seemo obvious from a year ago, to today,

why don't they happen? why don'we see thekind of changes thatll three of you are taing about? >> well, i think bob' right about health care. you know, thre's been an obssion about that. and of course that'one of the presidents's, you kno primary objeives. so that has bee a huge fight andaken a little bit of the eyeff this ball. but i also think at we have a market that's recovered, a ock market that has com back from the marclows, veryicely. d you know, there a mplacency that investors get lulled in when the market is ring. their 401(k) doesn't ok as devastated as it was. and so maybe it's not gent as it was a year ago wheneally were in the tch in a very big way. i think thats part of it. >> reporr: mr. glauber, u raised this systemic gulator idea. yohave had experience in washgton. this, of urse, brings in all kinds of stitutions d changes, the whole regulato system of who would exactly do what. so i that, i gss that

must be partf the confusion well in terms of howou go forward. >> well, iis. and it's goi to be part of the big debate. e fed is the obvious choice bmany people becausit clearly is most sophisticated and most knowdgeable. but therare a number of people in coress that are very worri about giving the fed more power. and i quite agree with them. but perhaps for a difrent ason. what worri me is if the fed is giv this addition power. th is going to increasily politicize the fed. it exercises this power it will ultimate be doing -- making decisions which will spend taxpayer moneto save firms bail them out in me way. and when that happens, the fed is gng to be overseen more by the politicians and th is going to jeopaize its independence as i sets monetary picy. so i would great -- >> i wld greatly prefer to see the fe not get th responsibility i think the plac it should goctually is to the easury department. w right now it doesn't have the capacity to do it. but it could bud that

capacity. anthe treasury dartment is subject t congresonal ersight. it issubject to the votes of taxpayers. and that reallyis where thisind of responsibility, i think, should be beste >> ln stout, where do you thk that should be invested, in washington or evenn the mix between washington and self-regulation by the industry. >> well w i thinkhe, it's aittle oeroptimistic to expect thategulators can foresee and respond to problems. if the feral reserve could have foreen where we were going, i would like to think weouldn't be here in the fit place. we tually had a pretty good regulatory system beforehe wave of deregulationn the end the 1990s aarly000. and althou there was a certain ount of fighting over tf between the serities exchange commission, the sec,the commodities futures tradg commission which h a long and very successful tra record of preventing speculative bubbs in excess in theutures

markets th they have jurisdiction over, and the fedel reserve and the treasury. so i think t problem is not so much that w needo crte some new relator or some new regutory powers as to back and looat e kinds of thingsthat worked in thpast. for exple, we used to have laws that prevented stodgy old commercial banks from erjing into -- mergi into and take on very risking proprietartrading divisions that would try and get profits out of speculating witherivatives. it's bause we got rid the lawsthat we ended up with banks that wereoo big to fail. so there are two strategies. you can try to stop them from failing but it also might make sense t goack and look at laws that prevented them from becoming too big in theirst place. >> gretchen, just seconds so a lasword from you on a mix here of regulation going forwd. >> well, i coun't agree with lynn more. and i think that wt is crucial for everye to talk about openly is how to solve this too big to fail oblem. d that is something i have heard very little about,

disturbingly little abou and untile really address that issue, i don't think we will have really gone where we need to go. >> all right, grich enmorgenson,ynn stout a rort glauber, thank you all three very much. >>oodruff: on our websit newshour.pbs.o we have two perspeives on the fall of lean brothers from the firm's bankruptcy lawyer a from robert glaur. and two views on theost surprising eects of the finaial crisis. nd that and more on our business desk page. >> woodruf next tonight, loing for the best way to feed india. the chlenge has led to new questions about india's rst successful drive to pruce more fo known as the green revolution and created by american plant scientist nman rlaug, who died last weekend newshour correspondent fred de sam zaro reports from india.

>> in the middle of the se real estate india will evertake cna to be the world's st populous nation. the estion is where will the food come from for 1.5 billion people. already lf the ki under age 4 under the country a mallourished. 70% of idia's people a ral. they barely krap by off tiny plots of land. evy year tens of millions of them are driven by povey into orcrowded cities in search owork. that meansewer and few food producers and re mouths to feed. at the sa time environmenl degradation threatens the prosperous eadbasketegion of punjab. this person thinks one solution tthe food crisis is to make small subsistence faers more productive. he goes toillages like this onen the impoverished

northern state and gets everyo's attention by inving them to the movies. >> these actuallare very long commercials for products soldby his nonprot enterprise. but they havell emovie stables, he says. bollywood style with known actors and a go story. you haveomance, fight songs, dance everying. >> reporter: and at the end of thetory in true bollywood style evyone lives happily ever after thanks either to the kb pump orb driprrigation system, more thaa million farrs ready have brought tse products. theyre simpledevices that provide faers who now grow one rain dependen crop each year the wer to grow additional crops during the dry season. and there are other advantages as well aording to sdungi, a social enepreneur who believes

there arearket solutions to poverty. >> they out of the village and take anything ri shaw you will ing, adwork. but afr getting a pump, they stay in e village in a house. th have two extrarops. they have extra $500 a year they didn't have before. and anothething, when children go the cities, they don't go to school. here at let they do attend school >> there is more urbanization and theounger generation in towns and cities, they are not ab to understand the importance of agricultur >> reporter: mms agrees it is important to ke small farmers in the villages but he is be known as the plant geneticist who lead a high-tech revolution that brought industrial scale to indi half acentury ago he worked with americanobel laureate norman borug to introduce at then were new fast-growing hybrid cro an synthetic fertilizers and pesticis. almost overnight it made the

plains o punjab resemble thwheat fields of nsas. >> it was not a revolutiary change, revoluonary means four person, the percent, here is was 100, 0%. so withinour years, within 64 to 18 india produd from 10 millionons to 17 million tons of wheat. reporter: for decades punj has fed thnature th bumper harvests of wheat and rice but now there are ear signs t green revoluon has plateaued. saw earlysigns of problems. >> but i noticed event that time some of the farmerswere staing applying too much fertilizer. and in the caseofice, too mu pesticides,hey were overexploing the brown water. >> farrs were encouraged to mamize production wi free ectricity and subsidies to buy water pumps. and they had no incentive to conser water.

thatoo was free. now the water table tha fed the green revution deining alarming say this pson fro punjab agriculture university. >> twond a half feet. >>es. >> per year. d how long has thateen happening? >> happening from the last five to ven years. >> rorter: at that rate, he says, rice and wheat production could collse in ten to 15 years, i many parts of india's grain belt. prevents that, he is part of a government effort to introduce conservation practice they teach about tools lke tensiometers that measure soil moisture,. water isn't e only problem. as the soil deteriorates and pests become incrsingly resistant, morand more expense fertilizers d pesticides areeeded to maintain the cop yield.

singh was praying peicide on his wheat crop and a lot of h exped body when we stoped to talk to him. >> it's a green col pest, suckout the grain inside so, thats why i spray 4k time every year when it becomes cloudy. that's when is pest appears. and that's why i'm spraying it. >> reporter: and he wasn't woied about not wearing any prottion. >> he is saying that it's not killing the sts is so it'snough inxicating to mealso. >> it's hardly kilng the pests so it will harly hurt him. >>eah. >> reporter: th rtedther farmers y chemical farming has beco a necessary evil. >> yea,his is the ageof mpetitive farming. we have tose chemicals. i know it's b forur health and for my family's health b i have nohoice. >> the doctor says what's needed n is a compreheive approach. eke logically sustainable practices and new technology,

perhaps inuding genetically mified seeds that are more iune to disease and drout. there are fears that climate change cld add further stresses on farmers' fields here and he sa farmers will need some assurance of dece prices. but he ss change is much hard today than in the 1960s when scientists, lawmakers d farmers wked in symphony. >> today tt symphony has beenroken. everody has become -- there are so many ministrie. as the bureaucracy has grown, e departments have oliferated. theris one for fertilizer. one for water. e for foodprocessing. one for agriculture. and one for rura development. therefore, cperation, coordinaon has become at the government level ielf, s become much more mplex today. >> for his rt he says ina has put too much emphasis on large scale modern farming. he says the majority of

india's fmers don't live in theountry's grain be and have far more basic needs. the een revolution with all their research and development,hat's done nothing fo these people. it's for punjab, for the bi farmers. all thresearch, even n is for those people. this did a lot bt in india 80% of the farmers are like the people you s here. >> so the are the customers he targets f ip irrigation systs in id parts of india and treae pumps in wetter regions. so far his groupnown as international delopment terprises india or idei has sold 750,000 pumps, installed for just $50 each. he is le to keep costs low through aid from international foundions. idei also earns revenue from groups that pay for carbon offsets since is pumps require no more energy than the foot power of farmers like raja rani. she farms about a third of

an acrwith her husband. before we only grew wheat but now we a able to grow vetables, tom toms,kra, urds so we are able to ke profits from these. >> those profit asaw both her children to aend school but ironally her dream for heron is to join the urban exodus, t find a job as far away fro the farm asossible. >> the >> woodruff: fred's repo was part of a jot initiative of e pulitzer center on crisis reporting and the oject for under-told stoes at st. john's iversity in minnesota. you can find lks to their storieon our website nehour.pbs.org. "new york times" me up nist davidbrooks and ashington post" columnist ruth marcus. mark shids is away. so, david, this week we sa the most serus atmpt y

to come up wth an approach to health-re reform that was supposedo appeal to both demoats and republican max baucus, hairman of the finance committee, wha did you make of it? >> well, first of all on the appealing it to th republicans andemocrats, dream on. but nonethels, i think it's a goo bill, a majo step forward. and i sathat beuse most of the bilse'rere going to cover a l more people. buone of the concerns i think a lot of us ha was the costs. would ey control the rapid increase of health-care costs. and the bauc bill does take som significant steps towards controlling th costs. doesn't do as much some of us would like. but it takes steps so the congre budget office scored it that something that would slighy reduce the deficit over t years anmay even notncrease it over the longer term because it does raise some revenue. and son the fiscal side, think it's a step forward. now on wheth it will pass, i think st experts uld think it would pass,r something liket or sothing based on it wuld ss. but it's still has some

major hules. there are going to beome people that wille paying alot mor for health surance than in the current bill and lot people seeing ta increases. >> so gets the costs down, ru, still majorurdle. >> gets thcost down, sti jor hurdles. i agree th david that it' a big step rward. it's verynfortunate that at this step didn't happen two months ago. i ve much like the fiscal ascts of the bill. not only is paid for, it actually could, accoing to the cbo, actually sav a half of 1 peent of gdp in the second tenure, that sods like a sliver, that would actually if it were true, add up to 1.3 trillion dollars which even today is real mon. the biggest problemnd the biggest criticism i woul have of i is as vid said the suidies that it providesto peoplender at or under 300% ofthe poverty level to buy insurancere way smaller than in the

house counterpart. and in the other senate bill counterpart. anif you thought we were hearing lot of uproar about death panels, wait until people start calculating what this cod mean to them and how much potentially of tir income they could berequired to or askeo pay. >> woodruf which is why, vid, the democrats are not on board >> right tre is a lot of --. >> woodruff: some o are but me who are not. >>here are still the people who still want th public option. i think they ha unconscisly ca pit yate -- capitulated, theyon't realizit yet. they are going throughhe stages. buthen there are other people who will say it's really iortant we subside people at the lower or even midlevel so they can afford health insurance, those who don't have it. and as ruth ss, those subsidies really an't ere the same as here. >> so ruth if you -- but for setor baucus o is trying to gethis through, the white house wantso get something, where does it g from here. >> ihink the architecture of what is going t get to

the senate floor and cme out of conference if we get that farand i think we willis going t resemble the baucus bill mor than 's going to resemble any other bi. but there are lots of poteial changes to be made along the way. not just on the subsidies but also on who might be eligible for the exchanges. and also maybe some additions that could be put in there th might just mite hope springs eternal, be able to attract a few republican votes or at lst keep some the moderate democrats a little calmer. things like a mo seous tort reform proposal because there is sense ofhe senate in ere now that they think we shod think about tort refo or something. an also what would ve much le to s is a trigger that would address the queson of so what if these cbo estimates ich are the best cbo estimates that iave ever seen in a health bill, m so sorry, what if these estimates do

not pan out as ancipated, one of the costs more, what if the savings don't materialize, swhat could we do to bud a mechanism into the bl to say whoa, wait, let'take another look. >> a those the kinds of thingsdavid, that mht ke itappealingto 60 senators? >> you wou getlose. i'm a little ls a fan of triggers maybe than th is. i thk nobody ever pulls those trigers. but that what geyou close. but there ar political oblems on all sdes. some of e moderate democrats are ve concned. some of the re liberal democrats, jay rocfell certificate very conrned. ron widen who wrote about this week has, i tought some very cpelling criticisms. so there is, you can't really simplify leftight anmore. thers concerned on all sides. d so i sti think something will ps but it will b tric. >> woodruff: the preside is going out tryg to sell health-care reformyet again, he going to be not on one, two, tee, four,

but fiveunday talk shows good idea? >> we used to call thi the fullinsberg teronica lewinsky's lawyer whwas the first atrney to pull off this feat of appearing all the sunday shows. i don't think it's necessarily a go idea. hes the president of the united stas. when he apars on one sunday show, everybody will listen. he jt gave an address to a joint sessio of congress hes made his speeches. seems me is just maximizing the opportunity to say something off message by goingll these places. >> woodruff: do you ve moreconfidence in his -- >>t is inexplicab to me. don't know why he isoing it. if you done, you contro the meage and people will list. now he do five --it is just cheapen the presidentialppearance. if heoes five, you know, hetarts appearing on home shopping nwork and everything, people will ju stop paying attention as much when the presidt does one of these shows. i reallyould like to know what they e thinking. i think it is a big stake.

>> woodruff: i have to a u about jimmycarter, the former president ts week, the comments about race that that is the priipal motivating facr for many of the president critics d speaker pesi saying justhe other day that sh sees parallels ithe rhetoric today with violence fr the early '70s. when allhe dust is settled here, what are we left with? >> well, first of a, i think a lotof it is an attempt to delegit mice the criticm the president ich is not to say there is not extremism. t if you talk to feel stening to glen beck and rush limbaugh if you wa to talk to that exeme it is not primily race though there is some race baiting. it is primari oppositio to east cot elite and big government. and so it's onof the sorts ofopulous revolts we've d in this country going back to fearing coglanor even andrew jackson in a more high toned way or even williamennings brian and thiss done as a pulous revolt againstig gornment and if barack obama re white or black, if he ran this sort of government wch, in which he is king government

power and fixing it, fixing it tard wall street to some extent, tard the health-care dustry, the energy industry, theall street industry yowould get this populous upsourj. if i not pticularly rce. >> woodruff: how do yosee it. >> race is part for some people. i also tnk the otherss of president oba is a part. he is --. >>oodruff: what do you mean? >> well, he's african-ameran, but he's also half whe. he's from indonesia and hawaii. hes -- hefeels differe to people. and i think one could argu at that may have so of loened the tongues of me ople like congressm wilson tsort of make th feel a ltle bit more in power to go after him bu as a general mter, iretty much agreeith david. ithink that's the small part of it. and hang lived through clinton hatred andush haed, it seems toe you don't haveo be a black president to he a lot of people. hati new america and

hang new completely crazy ways. very big change of conversation topic here, david. and that is next week we're ing to be looking at u. meetings. e president is going t be eaking in new york. but the storythat came out this week that geting s much attention is the administration's decision to chge the bush administration plan to put a miile defense system in stern europe. smart mo on the part of the administrion, what? >> ihink it'stoo soon to tell. basically what we z the missile defense was not really a polit tear thing it waa political thing to tell the eastern, europes that we were there f them and basically we sold them out to give something to russia. so therucial question is whatre we getting back fr russia. and i hope they made a deal. hope they just didn't hand this away without getting some quid prquo. and we'll see what thais. some even more troubling thing is thiis all based on iran, on trying to get russia to sporsome of our

sanctions toward iran. the idea that this iraan regime especially after wh has been said over the past few days is going to negotiaton the nuclear weapons, the nuclear program. to mit is dlusional. this regimes quite radical. 're to the going to be able to deal wh them. we're to the going to be able to talk tthem. if we're adjusting policy in the hopes that somow we can get sanctions d get them to change their irann policy, to me thais foolish. >> nai? ruth? >> i think that's a strong word but i do worry about that. on the merts, i think there was rious questions about the feasibility ofhe missile dense approh that the bush administratn was taki. so i d't have a ibble with changg it to a differt style and venue. but i do wonr as david does what did ty get for it. and as with the heth care debate, you don't want to give things away until you are getting somethinin return. and not to draw thparallel too much but if there a deal wi a russians it is not evident to me. and hoping tt if you just

play nicely with othersare you going to get sort of good behior in return. has not worked very well on catol hill and dfinitely not going to work very well dealing with these kin of adversaries slash allies. >> is this a maer of how they are selling this, how th are explaining this, ough, david is it deeper than that? >> well, i dohink, you know, the securing central europe was actually one the achievementsf the bush administration. and basically confront putin, putin regime. i thin the understanding which the bush administration had to go through afterlong struggle, that this regime in rusa was in the a friely regime thatas in -- inherentl hostile regime and we had to defend our allies against it o at least mbolically do that, thought that wasn achievement. anhanding them away and gers the allies hurts us unless we get sothing big in return. >> woouff: all right, on thatote of agreement, thank you both, ruth mcus, david brooks, thank you. >> thank you.

>> woodruff: and finally, th prospects for geing a global deal to reduce greenuse gases. margar warner hathat story. when wld leaders meet at the u.n. next week they'll vote a full day tolimate change. tuesday's climate change summits seen as crucl to efforts to for a new global emissions pac at a u.n.-spoored conference in copenhen and december. e lastreaty adopted in kyoto more than a decadeago und countries to reduce eir emissions five percent below 1990 levels by t timehe agreement eires in 22. but major pr lawsuiting naons like china and india weren't ven anytargets. and in the u.s. congress ver ratified kyoto. president obama came to office vowing t reduce u.s. emissions. and earlier this summerthe house naowly passed a bill to cut them 17% below 2005 levels by 2020.

>> but a climate chae bill in the senate stalled. possibly untilnext year. th u.n. negotiator who is trying to put together a deal is in washington for meetings in advancof the neyork summit and he joins us now. mr. depoor, welcome. thanks for being he. >> thankou. >> wner: what do you hope to achieve in new york nt week that will improve prospectfor getting a deal copenhagen. >> this is thenly meeting th is going to bring together alleads of state and government fro countries around t world. major industrialid countrie island nions that may disapar because of climate change. and i hope that the will collectively send a signal that they want copenhagen to succeed. >> warr: they sent a similar signal around th g8 eting in italy in jy yet the u. negotiator and othe involved in these lks that have been so involvedn say they really ar't going well. they're no on paste to get a deal by december. w share that view? >> wl, i would agree that

the gotiations are moving slow. but part of e reason why no big adnces were made in thg8 is bcause countries feel more comfortab negoating climate change in the broader setting of the u.n. with everybody at the stable rather an the small group. so that was part of the reason. >> now energy secretary chu of the o mba administraon said last ek that cop enhagen is not could come bac in two to fewer years. yopreviously havearned of the danger ithere is not a deal at copenhagen, of losing momtum. is that shifting now? are you praring a sort of plan b? >> no, i'm not preparing a plan b. i mean i agre that copenhagen is to the gng to be e be all and end l of climate change. scientists said we need to reduce global emissions by 80% and that is t what we going to agree i cenhagen. but wh we must agree are thinitialteps that countries ll take in order to p us on a path towads

that mus 80%. so embarking on this journey incopenhagen is rely important. >> warner: but you're sang it is going tbe embarking on the journey to the going to be a comprehensive deal? >> it's going to be a comphensive deal in the sensthat it needs tbe clear what rch countries are going to do to reduce eir emissions, how maj developing countri like china d india will engage, how money will flow th helpdeveloping countries adapt to the impacts of climatchange so all of those ingredients need tbe there. but i think targets, commitments wille racheted up over ti. >> now it was just, think, 20 mons ago that this huge team of scientists fm all over the globe issued these unanimouswarnings about the reallyxtreme dangeto the planet. if glal warmng ctinued unabated and they found that huns at least contribute to it. d everyone seemed to take that very seriously. the head of the pane won the nobel awad. but yet you are having tse difficulties. is it the same old rifts

between ch and poor counies? why ishis so hard? >> the rift betwn rich and poor is part of it. i think that countries be they rich or be they poor nt to be sure that every untry is engaging according tots cap abilities. becae if only so countries act climate change and oers don't, you are justoing to be shifting js and shifting pollution to one country t another and that doesn't really hel >> sthat brings us to wt the u.s. will bing to the table in copengen. as we just said, it appes unlikely that aryou going to ha a pie o emison cuttg legislation that is certainly signed befe copenhen. to what degree is that going to undercut your efforts? >> i hope it won't. i mean president obama as part o his election ticket said'm serious about clime change. i wanthe u.s. to show leadership. i will show leadehip and i want to reacan agreement in copenhagen. i think that the international community wa incredibly enthused by that

position of presidt obama. and i have seen many countries respd o tohat. have seen cna and india dramatically chae their sition and now offero also lim the growth of thei emissions. japan s come up with a very ambitiousarget. so has europe. not all because ofhe united states. but ceainly president obamhas blown new life into that dbate. and as a consequence o that, i thinhe has to come to copenhagen with something ambitious. and i think hean come to copenhagen with someing ambitious, a commitme, a targetithout having all the legislation developed in the nal detail. inact, jap doesn't hve itlegislation prepad. europe doesn't have its legiation prepared, so that wouldn't be so exceptnal. >> warner: a you said chin indiand brazil the big developing countries. they have been willing to make unilateral steps but in the past, they havebeen very reluctant to make any bindincommitments in a trea. are youseeing that change? >> i thinkthat depends alot on how weove on a number of other subjects. for ample, will copeagen

generation --enerate significant nance that helps deloping countries to enga. >> to adapt to cleaner technology and grow without thold polluting ones. to put cleaner technologies in ace but also, for example, climate change is causing a lot of tropicaliseases to our in areas where they didn't occur befo. how can u help poorer natis put in place heth plans to deal with those kindof issues. >> but go back to china, dia and brazil. are you seeing -- you think that they would be willi to sign the deal if it was a serious fincing commitment on the part of the richer countries? >> i think that china and dia would be willing to sign a deal then, yes. i don't actually think cha needs anybody's ney to engage. i think china is looking for cooperation on tecology. the story for smaller develong countries is different. but i see a very agairal willingness aroundhe world toeally get it done if copenhagen. >> some of the figures bei talked about iterms of financin helping these poorer cntries are about 100 or to 200 blion a

year. i thinyou used those figures recentlye. at this time it of global economic recession who is going to be ab toommit to pying up that kind of moy? >> well,irst of all, those figurerelate to what wil beeeded in 20, 2030, 2040 and a nber of years time. what we have at the moment is an gent need that will help developing untries assess the vulnerality to climate change, a then develop the plans to respo to it. but the mostimportant thing for me rally is that spending moneyn climate change i creating an oppounity. i man why, whyo china, korea, the united states have gre growth the heart of their econic recory packages. i think because they see this as an opportunity t chan direction, to change the natu of the economic growth. not just becase of climate but because of issues at rela to energy pres and energy security asell. >> and sohat are the consequences if the is no agreement at cenhagen. >> ihink that thatwould be a serious bw t

multilateralism, a sious blow to an international process. i think in a numbe of countries things wld become more diicult. president obam is very preoccupienow with health re which is affecting the climate ange debate. maybe he's worryg about it already but nextear he is going to be concerned abt the mierm elections. german chancello merkel has indicated that she might want to take a more conservative partnerfter e elections. so i think the like with y be things in lif, the longer we tak the tougher it gets. >> like many things in lifetiming is everhing. >> aolutely. >> the u.n. chef clite chge negotiator, thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: again, the mar developments othe day. a ma opposition protest filled parts of iran's capital, competing for withovernment- organid rallies. and russian primminister putin weomed the u.s. decision to alter plans foa missile

defense stem in poland and the czech republic. prident obama says he does notelieve s race is the mainactor behind ang attackon his health-care plan. he toldnn it is not the overriding issue. on newshr.pbs.org two online- only features tonight: read an essay from a 1year old cancer pient. colette jaycox worries her agnosis of non-hodgkins lymphoma a p-existing conditn could thwart her dream of being a self-employed entreprene, because she might not be able to get insuran. and jeffrey brown talks to musici mark knopfler out his new album, get lucky he's bt known as the lead guitarist r the british rock band, dire straits, which he talked about ding their convertion. here's a tte: within hi a eat time. we picked up the bull and stard running with it as st we could conditions it

helped being olde because i think that the enormity of it all would have killedme if i had bee a teenag. i think that helped me survive it i mean it does kick you really hard the reality is that becau the highs are hhs, the lows often feel lower >> woodruff: jefs interview is onur art beat page. "washingn week" can be seen later this evening on mostbs stations. we'll see yoon-line and again here monday evening with an interview with sectary of state hiary clinton. have aice weekend. m judy woodruff. thank you and good night. major funding fothe newshour withim lehrer is provided by: >> what the world nes now is energy. the energy to get e economy humming agai the energy to tale challenges

li climate change. at is that energy came from energy company? everyday, chevron vests $62 millioin people, in ideas-- seeking, teaching, buildg. fueling growthround the world move us all ahead. th is the power of human energy. chevn. >> this is the enge that connects andant grain from the american heartland to haras best sling wheat, while keeping 60illion pounds of carbon out of the mosphere ery year. bnsf, the gine that connects us. intel. supporting matand science educion for tomorrow's innovators. >> and by wells fargo advirs. together, wel go far. the naonal science foundation. supporting education a research across l fields of sciee and engineering. and withhe ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this proam was made possible by t corporation for blic broadcasting.

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