>> rose: welcome to t broadcast. tonight we continue our vacation scheduley looking at the pple who came to this table in 2009 with something to say about their passion an their wo and their life. our bject tonight, hot. tse people in the media glare. they e joe scarborough. >> at our morning desk we get lot of the p fakers in the country and the world. and it is --. > rose: who wouldn't be thrilled to do at. >> rose:nd is that a more imptant role for you th say being a- wellwhat, like a senator fromlorida. >> there's no doubt. >> ros evan williams, the founder of twitter. >> the desire to connect with other peoplesocially is a big one. and i think tat's why social networks in geral are very powerful.

that's what peoe care about billion almost more thn anything else. >> rose: rahm emanuel, chief of staff at the whi house. >> the white house was a place to make that most immediate change. and i cannot thi of a better person towork for and help him see through his agea than predent obama. >> rose: in an hour w call hot, those people i the media glar, joe scrborough, evan willis theounder of twitter and chief staff athe white house, rahm emanl. when we contie. funding forharlie rose has been prided by the following: >> rose:dditional funding for arlie rose was also provided by these funders

captioning spsored by rose counications froour studios in new york city, this is chare rose. joe srborough is here. he is the host of morning joe, the msnbc program that is attracting a growing flowing. "newsweek" magazine compared the broadcast toomething like a seous minded evening show still weang his bathrobe and slippers you like that. ere is a look at morning joe. >> david gergen o has been around a f presidents, republican and demoat alike, hashad positi this to say about president obama. but he faults him in the way he's run the ministration th far. >> yeah. >> in what ways. >> he sd a really interesting thin he said obama needs t appoint a reay good mager for the stimulus package that that money hasn't gotten spent fast enough. isn't mr. biden doing i that. >> hsaid that under fdr

fdr had managers more in charge of the tim lus who didn't have otr responsibilies and got pore done moreuickly. >> do you alize there are conservatives, rublicans that we, you are our magazine. >>e are very polar in the military we get a lot of soldiers reading u and a lot of mail from them and hear back fom a lotf them. >> okay. just saying ce in a while, well actually you d pj o'rourke the '80s. there was a conservati guy. had some great aicles. >> i tnk consvatives like to read us to disagree witus. >> that'sight. i, just like withthe new yor times", i buy two copies, one to rd and one to burn in my backyard after i finish readi it. >> rose: befo he broke into television, joe scaorough was a republican congressman from florida from 1994 to 2001. he recently mped out a comeback stregy not for hielf but for the gop. the book is called the last best hope storing conservatism a america promise. am pleased to have him back at th table. lcome. >> sry you had to bring m

>> i eny hearing the stories abt the ball girl lastime here. (laughter) >> rose: hoare you differentoday? >> you kno ihink -- i think i know now in 2009 what i did't know in 1995. >rose: i hope so. >> and ironically,'m counselling my liberal democratic friends, sayi just relax. you know, i tought 1995 wh we conservatives took over congrs, we owned the world. that we could pass whever we wanted pass through the house. he senate would confirm it. it would go to t white ouse, be signed ad it would be law and what iound out was james madion was a pretty smart guy. we darted further right than amera was ready to go. and you had moderate republicans and democra in the senate. it sort of cseled off the edges of tha agenda. the same thing'sappening now. and demrats have gone t far left. they ent too much money. they're movingaster than the middle omerican litical thought is ready

to go. and they' learning the same lesson. >> re: are they doing that because it is their ideaologicallace or are they doinghat because they look athis economic crisis a they are pullng all the strings they know. >> listen, what barack obama is doing is whatonald reagan tri to do in 1981. what bill clinton tried to do in 1993. and the first year, they have lookeat history. and you ve a honeymo period. you try to get as much done asuickly as you can get donbecause you knowafter the first year, it's a long, hard slog so that is what he is trying to do. but the probleis what america wants hm to do is focus on as mikebarnacle says, three things jobs, jobs and jobs. t also barack obama is limid by what happened over the past eight years. >> george w. bush athe republican congress ran the debt up about $11 trillion. rack obama's fit budget was ver expensive, it doubled the debt.

his projectis, and americans just aren' ready to go that far >> rose: the book "resting cservatism in america's promise" basically isn indictment othe bush ainistration. >> well, yeah. i mean it's --. >> rose: from main seet conservei. >> it is an iictment of republicanism. it an indictment of people being morenterested in keeping theepublican party in power thandoing what they said ty were going to do when ey get to washinon. i mean we t elected in 1994 by saying we'reoing show restraint. we're going to show restraint in spending. we're going tory to balance the bget. >>ose: contract in erica. >> we are ing it to not engage in mitary adventureis, show restraint in entitle -- entitlements. and we did that. we pasd well fare rorm, we balancedhe budget. we didry to restraihat military adventurism. you look at the bus adnistration, onll three of thos counts they take

$155 bilon surplus, they turn iin to $1 trillion deficit. they take an entitlement system, medicare especially that is going bankrt, ey d a $7 trillion ability to it, the medica drug benefit an. and i think most damaging to this country home and abroad theyake colin powell's rublicaniew of how wee supposed to conducturselves on an international stays, u know, the powell doctrine, the winebaer doctrine, we talkedbout this before, we showestraint abrd. we don't go battle unless it's the last possible opon. but when we gocan --. rose: but then go with full force with the plic hind it. > a as colin powl said when weo to war, we don't want a far fight tony said he wrota me sayi don't go into iraq unless yoare going to have 50,000 troops. if you don't go i with full force, we're going to have a

meson our hands. heredicted it. >> rose: right. >> and a lot of the smar generals that ha been in iraq before pricted it. fosome reason donald rumsfeld didn't nt to listen to the generals th won t first iraq war. and insteade decide we're going to win th war on the cheap. charlie, there's nothing conservative about tha there's nothing consertive about spining th country in debt. there is nothing conservative about putti us $7 millon in debt in entitlement that not conservative. >> rose: is tony and colin powell the more repuican you identify with than say newt girich? >> well -- (laughter) >> let me put it thisway. let me put this wa. , i'm going to put this way. newt gingrich can win statewide eltions in georgia. colin powe can win statewide elections in coecticut. we don't have colin powells or tony zinnis in r party any more. ll, wve got a few, olympia snowee.

>> rose: she wasery good this morning >> so good othe show but for evyone that wants to kick colin powell out ofhe party, i say d really think --. >> ros that is rush imbaugh, isn't it. >> well, it i a lot of people. i went out on my bok tour and i was ying to explain to peoe, if you want to be a naonal party aga, you got to win a seaor two in newngland. and let me te you sothing, people who lk ke me and talk like me from the uth, we're probably not going to do well in northeast harvard maine. colin powell wh. olympia snee will tony snow ll. >> i just thr that out there. i own northeast. i'm su it would be just le the book tour. vote for him. >> okay, if youay so, okay i will vot for him. but they kicked colin pell out of the party is insane. i learned on the book tour t is fascinating saking in new england. hi lot of people comeup me, a lot of older gentleman, especially come up to and say i useto vote for republicans when they were lke yu. i said'm really

conservative. >> yeah. >> rose: . >> i'mike a libertian i'm so conservave. >> no, no, no, no. you're not a har. and what i alized on this book tour, twothings. one good, o bad. the good thing ishat moderate its, eve people left of cent will listen to you if you don't come to em and tell them barack obama say counist and sonia sotomayor is aracist. they will lsten to you and you cahave a debate on philosophy. >> rose: who said at sotomayor was a racist. >> i foet now. i played a lot of football, charlie. a l ofepublicans said she was racist. >> rose: me of your friends. >> sadlyn the other side, you call themy friends. say, on the otheride, like hard-core republicans. >> rose: ght. >> let me ju tell you. i wi say it right her are not as conservati as me. certainly not on spendin certainly t on military adventurism. lot of these people wouldn listen to me because i didn't cal ama a communi.

cause i didn't call sotomayoa racist. i mean style has lot to do. i me there are some people -- on the hardight and hard eft that expect to seeing aner and expect u to play hardba. and if you d't, you you're not a real conservative or progresse. >> rose: on the queson that rolling stone was talking about, leadership. >> yh. >> rose: back obama, six months, how do you aess theeadership first. >> it is, you kn, it's a split decision for me. foreign policy, i couldn't expect more. >> se: same thing jimmy ker said. >> dihe? on foreign policy he's the first realist we'v had in the white hous, at least judging by his aksver the irst sick mons since bu 41. he -- he takes all the information in. heoesn't dart wildly right or left. sure, his rhetoric is a bit morerogressive. but that's his rhoric.

in realitye is, he is the first realist at lea over the first six months. domestically i -- i don't think he's shown leadership all. and i say that because i've been ver disappointed. i have been disappointed . >> re: because he is ving too much power to congress. >> actly. he turn td the stimulus pkage over to nancy pell osoy. the biggest bill in the history of this country, the biggesspending bill, ye emember he set up david axelrod and larry summers. went up to t hill. th said this is our outne which was anoutline that a lot of republicans said we could live wit that. and coress told him no. nanc pelosi no, we're to the goi to be bipartisa 're in power now. and larry summers came out and said message receed. they turned it or to nancy pelosi and --. >> rose: part of at also was a action, perhaps a overreaction to at clinton had done on alth care. >> right. u got to be reful also speaking of jimmy cter and tip o'neill. one of t reasons why tip

o'neill didn't like jimmy cart is because he didn't believe the new president, this freshacerom plains, georgia, wshowing him proper respect >> ros so many presidents co to washington, especially if they ve been governors, somehow they wan to be perceiveas an outsider. >> uh-hu >> rose: and at me point someone lps them understand in orr to get bills passed, in order t be an effective force, u have to have some relationship not accommodion to the way washingtoworks. >> exactly. dow have to. >> rose:ou understand th. >> you do haveo accommodate. e president has to deal witcongress, no doubt about it. buyou start with the smulus package and i think anotheristake cap and trade. nancy pelosi pulled barack obama ito the ca andrade debate. debate he shouldn't have been puld in to if health care really was his number one agenda ite he got pulled into that mess. anthere's been aot of noise lding up to health care. so by the time he ts to health care, he's upside down on the deficit deficit. he's upside down on the size of feder government's growth.

he upside down on the poll mbers on a lot of issues that's making his joa lot me difficult right now. rose: you think public option is a d idea in health-care reform? >> i thin so, yeah. >> rose: you like the op rative idea? >> well, se, do. the problem is, for the president --. rose: tell me, governor. >> well, no,i -- if you want tknow the truth, there's nothin in the constitution, charl --. >> rose: i do wanthe truth. i'm going to tell you the truth. you wanthe truth. you can't handle the tru. we don't have to-. >> rose: thank y, jack. >> we don't have to do everything i 2009. >> rose: youere a marine pilot. >> i'm a constituonal laer. i know the cstitution forward and backyd and i can te you as a guy without --. >> rose: floda. >> book toon law clas i know of what i sak. theris nothing in the constituon that says you have to get everything done 2009. >> rose: thereou go. >> he doesn't have -- to swallow --. >> rose: but you said political realy is you need to do as much as you cabecause you have less effectivens afterwards so you have two competing ideas running head on at each other. >> the pblem is this president has burned thrgh a remarkle amount of

potical capital over the irst six months. >> rose: has he really. >> yeah, he h brauses his popularity is still high and ch popul than his sition. >> yea i'm just taing abut any big spending bill, he's going have me proems. i thinkreally the best thing hean do right now, if i we advising him, and of course i'm not, i would say agessively g aft consum proctions. taking care preexisting conditions. allowing ks to stay on insurance until they are 25 26. >> rose: a do something about foreclosures an all of that. >> all of that. focus on consumer prottion. get as muc as you can get now and wh the economy turns arou in 2011, then go back. >> rose: what's goinon in red state america? >>here's anger out ther right now. >rose: about? >> the economic condition of the countrynd b is it more pulist. >> you know, it is just a --. >> re: a sense that e you goingout those people on wall reet and to the bailing out us. >> go back to '92 and '9 there's so much that

reminded me of '92, '93. you kno bill clinon w in 1992 becau, you know, we hit theeset button on the economy. we went from an industrial age. we were transformg into an information age. take three or fou years until we get tre. and so bill clion dealt with that ange en he didn't respond the way people wanted him to respond in 1993 and he struck tm as a traditional liberal, who rose,oss perot. d suddenly you had these, what was it, up with america, or up with peoe,hatever pet's group w called millions of people got involved in the pitical process in '94. the same thingas happened here. we' hit the resetbutton. we're not going to be an onomy that is mad driven by consumerism. so people elect the agent of change, barack oba in 2080. what theve seen in 2009 has been a traditional leral, deck cratic pproach. and so i think there's some anger out the.

it's not, listen,it's not overwhelming yet. it's certaly not like it was with billlinton in 1994. but ceainly the warning signs are there for th obamadministration. ey need to respond well in thenext six month rose: how have you changed? i meanou explain to me how you thk how you see the world. but u, haseing in the center of is media thing, is it diffentk than potical attention? i mean is it less, is i more is it more coortable? >> it's a lot more funot having to wake up at 5:00 every morningnd saying what your local newspar's writing about you. >> rose: or spending aot of time on thehone raising money. >> that, oh, yeah, no, this is -- th is -- but y know what, thoug charlie, my,he show, is like, we talked about this fore. >> rose:ight. >> you and i, les not tell our bosses, we're t luckiest guyin the world. >> rose: i know. wants because at this desk and at our morning desk we get a t of the top --n the untry and the world. anit is -- whoouldn'te thrilled to do that. >> rose: and is th a more

important role for you than saying about a -- well, like, like a senator from florida. >> ere is no doubt. >> rose: a more important frorl you thaneing a senator of flora. syou say to the people of florida i canest serve you not by running for elected office but by running morning jo thank god i don't have to say thato the people of for chlt all i have too is talk to myife and see how she. >> rose: how does she vote on that. >> she wants m to stay out of politis. >> rose: thais the reason yoleft, was it,ostly. >> well, no, i had two boys that --. >> rose: that is what i an, family. >> yeah, yeah, fami. but you know >> rose: now you have larger famy. > they just keep growing. i got 47 kids now. but you know --. >> rose: stting with willie. >> yeah, exacy. he is our troubled child, starting at 5:30 every morng, you got to wakep d see if he is doing all right. but you ow, i had se republicans approach me, asked me if would be interestedn running for senate this year. >> rose: sure. >> and i called a coup of political frnds that i respect.

d everybody had the same concluon. you have a l more influence, you have aot more reach and you e havi a lot more fun doi wh you do every morng than you would ing the 99th or 9100thsenator in the minoty in senrity. >> rose: evan williams he, the ceo and co-founder of twitter. it one of the fastestit growing ses on the internet. ttter combines social tworking with a newrend called microblging. ers communicate using a maximum of 140 characters, though less than 3 yea old, twitter las an estimated 6 million users. on-line communicatio is something williamknows a lot out. efore twitter he founded blogerom, one of the most. lar bloging platrms. i amvery pleased to hav him on this vis to san fncisco to join us at this table for e first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: great to have you here. pleasure to be here.

>> rose: why do you think twter has had this extraordinary rt of, not only growth, but popularity and visibility and tk. >> it's something toell you the truth, that can't fully explain. i me i think the product's great. i think it's compelling. e level of attentionhas been a little surpring. >> rose: all of want you on our show, a magazines want to write about you. all newspapers want to profile you. i think twitter cbines a lot of -- it distills a lot of what makes e internet exciting to a very simple form. anit's about people connecting. and it really provides people with a new way to communicate that didn't exist. and my co-foder likes to say it givess a way that we didn't know we needed >> rose: exactly right. >> and it feels very natural. once you have it it's like well this is a perfect

complent to everythin else >> rose: explain how it work >> it's very sple. although not obvious. what you do is you send an date or a tweet as theye co to be known. >> ros first you have to join the site and first a by joining theite, you he access to what? >> you have access to a few million people's tets, whoever you wa to tap into d keep up with. >> rose: yh. >> andhey're not even all people. they're coanies. they're sports teams, th're media organizations. and friends and people you may just want to know about. >> roseso if i want to senout tweets, if i'm joining, i'm a mber and want to nd out twes i can choose. >> yochoose. so it is diffent tha-- it looks lot like aocial network but it's atually fundantally different in how the relationship structures work. >rose: explain. >> so a social networkike facook being the classic example is about finding --

encapsulating realorld connections with whe we know each other. we say we're fries on the soes soci network and then we can communicate and it's twway. twitr is anacin cron us relationship mod. so i can be interest in you and you are sending uptes. u don't know who the heck i am. or you jusdon't care about my uates. and you ignore me. >> rosewhereas if i was on social nworking and you wanted to be my friend, i would have to confirm. >yeah. >> rose: but here i dot know who isetting it. just the people wiout want it can get it. >> right. so it's much more open. and itreates a different ki of dynamic. so whayou are doing is you are just kind o putting stuff out there and sort of like y would put stuff o on the web or on a blog. but it's much faster and more constrain than that. >> rose: constraed because it's oy 140haracters. yeah, consrained because it is only 140 characters. and ctures, nthing b

pure tex >> rose: okay. but wh happened at the time of the crash in the hudson of the flight. >>hat's one of the other phenomenon ofwitter is you can actually post pictures through third part what you do is pt a link to anythg. so it can be aeb site, picture. there is a service called twit pic which is one of may be - they're at least 2000 different programs tat c send twitte updates. and the use -- they're third party delopers who have cpletely on their own built software that plug into twister. and they have do it for posting pictures, twitting from an ipne orlack berry orrom windows or mac or lenux compute, aost anything you can imagine now has a twitter interface and all built by thirparty develops. so that is one the phenomenons at twitter has tapped int, i think because again it's so simple, tha

people just buil all kids of things aund it. >> rose: wt i love abo it is it's instant. i mean you had a senator tweetin while theresident was addreing the congress. >> rightnoo one of his close friends. >> right. >> rose: claire mccaskill, the senator from ssouri. sitting there -- andwhoever want to get thatcould get it. > exactly. and th really shows the benefit. it's not about per friend -- her frnds, it's her constituents whoever is interested in wt is going on right then. and twitter, the real-time aspecis really one of the ma benefits. and that -- part of tat is becausehe content is so short it with both be written and sent instaly. and we e smsnd other technolies to really take advante of that. and that's what makes it intereing. evein the mundane stf when it's nothe president it not a senator.

ut it's your bther who lives across the country, you kn, saying eir are painting the garage. it not interesting to hear later that he painted the gar ac. but to hea in the momen that that's ppening,. >> rose: the call of it. >> iwhat we are talking aboutn terms of cial networking, in terms of twter and tweeting, is it at the essence of where sort of the internet revolution s t idea of community. the idea that you cantake this remarkable tool and use it to crte a community that brings you friendship as well as information, as well as somethi else. i think it does all of that >> rose: but how powful of a force is it in terms of shapinthe way the intert issed today. >> i think it's tremendoly powerful i think what the intert -- w the interheat has evolved over time is more

efficiently tap themost basic hun desires. and they vary lotut the desire to connect with other people soclly is a big one. and i think that iswhy social netrks in general are veryo we -- powerful. that's what people ce about almo more than anythingelse. >> rose: project this forward five ars. how will it be differe? all of it. >> well, it's hard to imagine w the thnology is going to be vastly different. i'm sure i will ihink a lot of it that will be -the ways it will be different is culturally. and so pople will be used to this mode of -- i remember when blogi starte it seemed ry strange topeople, that just anyone uld write something on t web. how dare they have theerve

to think tt someone would wanto read it. and now at least, i livin e san francisco bubble but it seems like pople generally cept sure, th's a thing that normal people do. clely, fabook an mpace are a thinghat normal peopldo. but there still sort of a, well, why would yoput yourself out the like that i thi people in general are learninghativing a bit more public, a bit more transparently can have actually reallyowerful, positiveffects. yo-- you meet people, you are provided wit new opportunits. you havejust the ability to express yourselof what is going on. it c be narcissist and itan be completely ego-driven but it can alsoe just an authenti open way to live youlife. >> ros is tweeting an

inteational phenomenon? >> it is. on about half our users are in the u.s. right now. >> rosereally? >> half. japan is reallyig fors. theapanese is the one language we've translated the site to. but it was actually, we translated because i got big in japan first i the k. is acally exoded recently. u.k. is the second biggest. a i think canadand germany and brazil is creepg up. >> rose: some have suested r a wile tre, maybe still, you had a oblem with crashing because there was so much usage. >> weid. we had a terrible first year and a half aually whre the site went down a lot and w slow aot. a it took us a long time to get out of that. it almost killed us, i tnk. >> rose: let's talabout the companas a business. it is reported, i know i'm unlikely to get anywhere on this.

if facebook wanted to y you fo anywhere between $300 and $500 million, a, was there an offer from facebook. >> we talked to fabook, yeah. >> rose: and is thi valuation in theallpark? >> i can't comment o the valuation. >> rose: why did y make e decision not to sell? >> well, we thought about it carefull ani can't say, u know, offers are in variou forms of seriousness and who ow aroximates if, you know, they would have done it. but our analysis was carefullyonsidered. wee a foprofit company. we have outde investors that havto look at these des. but i never felt like it was the best thinforwitter. it rely, it just seems way too early. we have a lot of mentum. there's -- tre's tons of sic. we don't make money. lotof things cod go

wrong. but the potental is so great that to stop n even at a big win financially, would ju feel like a loss. >> rose: monetizg is the question thateverybody asks. how do you monetizthis? >> we don't know for sure. but we have so ideas. it's going t, i think like the product itself, 's going to have to evolve over time. we're going to try thing its andee what works. but 're encouraged by a couple of ings. one is thai would say three things. one is i don't thinkhere is question of cant make enou money to survi because i think there's a lot of- people talk abo w will twitter ev make moy. sort of this mentality still that internet bubble 1 boy 0 where things disappeared cause they got hyped too mh and then didn't make ney. now there isly an ecomy built into the web. that is much more real and the's a scale that mes it. so if mething's popular probably won go -- it

probably won't disapar because it can't ke any money. that doesn't real happen a more. so the question is there a killer businessod thrill? or jt a survivalable buness model there. and what we're encouraged by is the ft that as menoned, there is a lot of commercial usage alrea. so and we could charge users at some int or charge fo extra featureshich a lot of compani do. we could obviously implement some rt of advertising which we do none of rig no we do that intelligently, it could be a win forusers and -- and make money for companies that pay for it st like google figured out how to do. >> rose: on the other hand googleas also figured out, i thk, and have suggested at least in someplaces that i have read thathe socia netwking is not the advertising vehicle th thought it might be. >> right. >> rose: it's not a place. people whoengaged -- who are using social network are not sort of likely to look at the ads. >> i thk that is right. and yoknow, twier may be

more le that. but there's this informatiol component to twitterhat makes it a little bit less like a pure soci communication tool. ihink social communications areeally hard to monetize. information-seeking activities are mu ezer -- easier to monize. google beinthe ultimate exampl twit certicate somewhe inetween because of the fact tt i get my dad's tweets but i also get -- also wl do searches and find o what people are saying about the latest iphone. >> ro: right. > rose: i'm in washington th rahm emanuel just da afr the novemr election. presidentlect barack obama med him to behis chief of staff. it is one of the st powful positions in the american government. he is no stranger t washington. he sved as asenior advisor to presidentill inton before being ected to congrs in 2002. he quily rose in

leadership and was creted for leadingouse democrats as they retook control of congresin 2006. despe a chance to eventually become perhs speaker of the house, rahm emanuelresigned his seat at president-elect obams request. the two men share a close relationship, forged together in ccago where they both gan their political caers. wh announcing the pointment, the president-ect said, quote, no one i kno i btter at getting this donehan hm emanuel. rahm emael also co-authored a bo called "the plan big ideas for amica" you canow read it. it is outn papeack. im pleased to have him back on this progam, what has to be an extraordinarily busyime for him. tnk you. >> thankou, charlie. >> rose: great to seeou. >> nice to s you. >> rose: tl me why the present-elect wanted you in th job. because he had to tell you in order to convince you t leave somethin that you

loved. >> that is -well, first o alt is something ioved. i lovedongress. and it was a greatob serving the cstituents of thnorth side of the city of chicago. it was not so much what he saido me, ahough de make a persuasivease about workin for him. but i think as we talked a little earlier before e sho started, he did lay out and we talked many times through the campaign, periodically, at th is a moment of peri for america, and also a moment of possibility for amera. and that we're -- where you could affecthange the most. and en you weigh that, although carly congress has its appeal t me personally, nd you can make change from congress andou can just see it just this last week, that the type of things that we wanted to do, bot of/9 u, but is his

predency, is the place you can most impact pele's lives, leav youthumb pri, where they can imove their lives a have that most immediatempact is fromthe white house. andlthough i gave something u personally for my career a also personally, think --. rose: in chicago. >> yes, that thewhite house as the place to me that most immediate change. and i cannot ink of a better person to wkfor d help him see through his agenda than preside obama. >> rose: you seem to be differe. >> nass'secause i'm full medicated. (lauter) >> rose: on what >> sleep, slep deprivation. >> rose: sle deprivation. he'scool. u seem to be hot. >> uh-huh. >> rose: he is from the le. you seem to be from the center. you're a different religions. you have different educational backounds. youave wanted different

things in your life. >> well,irst of all, let me go at t pmise, a little. rst of all, we do share a lot in common. >> rose: chica, politics. chicago, the passion that politics is about place of possibility. but we're also both children of immigrants. and that the notn that this i a special country that has given us speci opportunity. d although you've noted differences style, i don't ink in the core of why w chose a life publ service. again, this i his presidency, t mine, et cetera. but our frieship and our sens of, as former colleagues, i as member of congress, him as a senator, but our friendsp is in that same sense of what politiccan do for people. and so yeah, we have fferent style. >> re: how would you

chacter eye the ifference? > well, but to the substance, i actually don't -- one thing that would slightly disagr. you say i'm of the center and he's of the left. i wou say both of us are about the future. >> rose: and it has no abel. >> not on doesn't it have any label t it doesn't matter wch road you take to get tre. as long as it's about building future tha is stronger and better for the people that you serve. you asked auestion about --. >>ose: how would you dene the differenc in terms of personaty and tempernt. because his campaign had the famous sloga no drama obama. >> uh-huh. rose: you are infamousin his town for drama. >> well, letme say this. i thinkhat we do share, stylisticically, is a sense of may i'm morexpressive of . a sense of impatience to get ings done toelp peopl i am -- amy m wife always

sqloks if we had a four child she wouldike to name it patience t would be a sule, regular reminder and maybe it would seep in. but you know what, i give yoan example, y know this, charlie. i care deeplabout the chilen's health bill. helped negotiate it for present clinton. on the floor, 10million children whe parents work full-time and don'tave health car i'm not sure wh are you fighting against insuran companies patience is virt. i thinkor those kids whose parents rk full-me, they deservsomebody without can gethere and work, who is a little impatnt to rock the system to get it done. and the truth is, president-elect ama knew what he was doing when he was hiring me. i me he knew what he was geing. >> ros helearly knew that one othe things he said was i need somebody to cover my back and you're that. >> absolutely. this is abouoyalty. we have done a lot togethe as colleagues. we'veone a lot together as friends. andy job is tosee through hi agenda.

and make sure noonly it asses congress, that part of the agenda. that's one piece of pennsylvania, you know the two sides of pennsylvania avenue. but it's also there is another road that lds into the oval office and that is from the oval office out, and that's to main street. and make re the people on main reet know they have a peon who getsup every day, lls up their sleevend try to make su that thr voes are heard in that office. so my b is to ke sure that- and there are parts of the job that a different. there not just one piece o it. you are an advisor, you are a counlor. you are a rson who implements an agenda. you are a peon who makes the stf worse to make sure the prident's agenda gets throh. and also that he has all the options avaable to make those choice so there's difrent -- and sometimes you are an ambassador for him. so there ar different parts of that. and it requis different skill sets, ea of those ings. and cerin days yowill be good at. certa days you won't be. thmission, to mak sure what presdent-elect obama sees for this couny and wants see for this country is executed both

from his white huse sff, through coness, and also the american peoe know what that visions so they can follow through and see how he can heheir, a, improve their ves and change america's standinin the worldants was it important to him th you were a powerful figu in congressnd that you knew the congress and he knew that what he was going to need, especially with democrats, is somebody who knew them and could speak thei language in way that they could understand? >> a little way through th interview i' wondering whether u should have him swer these questions rather than . lk, we had talked -- i mean henows what i had de in congress to help us win both the congress, as well as help us in t only win the coness but help us move angenda through he knowshat what i had done working in e white house before. and he also knew that i had privaector experience. and thai saw throug--. >> rose: in the baing busins. >> in the finaial sector, yes. younow, i'm reminded, let

me just divert f one secretary. josh llton, present bush's chief of aff, had in elier december a breakft for a the chiefs of staff to come together. i don't think they haveone that. there were 13 people there, including fmer secretary of defenseumsfeldvice esident cheney was there, howardbaker was ther ken duberstein leon panetta, sam skinn. i'm leaving others off. i don't want to do that. andyard was there. secretary rumsfeld said, you know, your advante is that one of us had were that you ere here befoe. and that you had wored in congre i said yes, a ose assets arelso my liabilities. all theembers of coress know you as a firt-name basi i can't be the head of the gislative affairs. i have to be chi of staff. hey know me as colleague, i know tir disicts that is an advantage.

having worked in the wte house bore n yourmind's eye, your dna i wired for a guy yoused to work for. i'm worng for a new person. so you got to rork,ew rewire. >> se: tell me about that. th's fascinating. why is that fascinating. >> ros because you have to rewire. you woed for bill clint. now you work fobarack obama. so you have t rewire. t wol definition of rewiring means i got t changeecause this is a fferent guy. >> well, i think -- well, it's hisresidency. and you kw, making that change, but you have to -- you know, let me t to illustrate this with the clearest example. this is to theoing to come of well. u could brief president clinton before a press conferce. we he, you know, a his desk, doing cross ward puzzle, ncaa march madness is over here, you know, someing else, the phe cas are coming in. mrpresident, let's get is down to the one, two, three. and cahave all that stuli coming in and he, you know, and you would have to kinof knock on the door,

rip it apart get it done. at one point early onwe ere trying to prep before a press conferen and i with president o a. l's get this down to aone, two, thr. e says i got it. so you got to kind of - i was kind, the old dnaas ming throh. and you realize he's got very- you know,resident clinton woulhave a lot of stimuli going on a around, tv here, crosswd puzzle, you are trng to prep for a ess conference. somebody is saying so-and-so is on the phone. he is, d he has a very cool snse about what it is heants tocommunicate, how he wants communate it. and he knowwhere he is on that stuff. so you got to rebuyer tohe peon, their style, their subance and their vision. and i thi,ou know, we've rked very closely overthe last six weeks, we're getti there. >> rose: what surprises him about you. >>et me say this about the last election which i thought was fascinating. and i don't ever rememb it ever happening in america history, or at least recent

erican history, let's leave it that way. and i have said th i think to you charlie,efore, is presiden clinton wa a baby boomer, presidentush was a by boomer am our nominee before al gore a john kerry, both baby boomers. they -- tis not an insul. 'm not -- with john mcca, they went back a geration. and with president-elect obama, our party went ahead aeneration. no twoarties a the that time, in a moment of time in an election went this wy, split. but you could see he was part of the future. the coury was changin it refleed the type of change that he was. >> rose: you know what it i as to me is tat boy, this economic crisis is even worse than you imined it was. and that you, every day you lookt things that are alarming and you know it's got be the, yu know, the iveting focus of what you . and thatou have got to be ppared to take some dramatic steps that yo never imagined you would have to do but you have seen the danger. you have seen how deep

employment could go. you have seen how difficu it is to get t credi marketoving. >> charlie, one thing, my op rative they is you never allow a serious cries toys go to ste. it is an oprtunity to do big things butt an opportunityhere you think yocouldn't do something because pele know this is a moment of peril. but so a moment of possibility. i thi we are inhering, we as a country, not just thadministration an the congrs, a country inhe rst economic condition since e great depression. the greatest commitment of americ troopsverseas since '6 and the heht of etnam. that ithe moment in time in american history nw. think thatouwill see that his vision is to bin turn the economy around, working again r the middle class of this country because yocan't have a strong economif you don't have a strong middle class. and puttg in place a policy th not only produces jobs toy but

competitiveness r the future and en as you had nod earlier, at not just deal with iraq and afghanist, but most importany, the hunr that is around t world for america's leadershi to once again restore not just our position, they are hungering for us toead by example. and i think that at thi time theountry, the wor is watching anas much as amica is hoping r president-elect obama's success, the world hoping for it. cause they crave america's leadersh at this time. on s many fonts and have been waiting r it. rose: because they also think the problemsre so large that they cnot solve them bo amica's cooperation andelp. and they want leadership. >> ameri ishat indispensable nation for freedom. and we have a person at a uniqueime in history who represents souch going on in this country. and so much of the possibility of what can do arod the world. >> re: what will he want to say in t inaugural addrs? what will the tone. >> that everybody shld watch charlie ros

>> rose: yes, hope so. >> i think yo ratings are fine. a loof it wetalked about. i think, i mean --. >> ro: but what is important. u've got to have some opportunity. what we have to do is connect on this level. >> well, i tink that first of all it the different than what he talked about in the campai in this sense. >> rose: or in oth speeches. >>ou know, look, so much of the business and finanal leadership of this couny let the country down. th anything, the culture of anything goes dominate washington, dominated the corporate sweets, and parents of the leadersh of this country. and that if you are gog t ask america to take responsibility for their country, the leaders have to lead by exale. and they too havtoe responsible. and that feeling responsibility can't just b a lec fewer to the american people where they were on the onomic or social strat

butit must also beead by example by leaders of this country both in the public and private sphes, that they too have to now adopt a phosophy and a culture o responsibity. >>ose: participation, responsibility and sacrific >> and so when h talks about, you kw, everybody is going to have to give something for the grear hole is once again kind of touching thaterve or that sense in america, not only responbility that this is a greatest cntry, we're all lucky be american citizens. but to have tat greatness, you have to giomething to your country. anthat is wh i think u'll see in this. >> rose: an he willalso talk about, he s also said ith george sthanopoulos that he understands, you know, th there may be time for a grand barga. and the grd bargain has to do with tax cuts. it has to do th the timulus program. has to do with entitlents. it has to do with a rae of things. >>ell, i think the basic structure and conceptualization of that is that while we

make these bold investmen in our health care mernization, our school dernization, theeforms that we need, they havto coupled with fundamental reforms of the way we do business. u can't afford any more $300 billions of cost overruns at the dense department oan annual basis. that just not ceptable when other people are being asked to tighten their belt but you c't continue to afford a health-care system where we subsidize part of corporate america above e price that u can get for a better price r $200 billion. that just can't go on. and so while we ask and me ese bold invesents and te on the responsibility of not only creating thesein jobs t modernizing america's fundamental infrastructurethat we also got to changthe way washgton doests business. and you can't acct well, that's how it used to happen. it's just acceptable. and so there is fundental rerms that have to happ the delivery, being more effective of tha savin that have to be made. yes,e'll take on those entiements but you can't

come to the tab with what you won't accet. with the opportity of what do we have t do to make the change that it's necessary. >> rose: it is clear that when you looat all the range of issues, that he reechls out toear people who are opposed to him. he wants to have dinner with georg will and charles cladhammer andbill crystal and m not sure who was here. becae he wanted what? to know wt people who in print had been oosed to him, thoughtf what he was doing or to see what ideas they had about,r have their view of thworld was different from hisr -- >> you heard him in the presconference the other day. said, i welcome ideas, there is n only one way to solvthis problem. now what's not negotiable i 3.6 million jobs you have a god idea? i it's -- thats exactly his words. who he sat down with as you said conservative columnist wt are their ideas.

had a -- there was a dinnerhe other night oter athe wilson center, organized by l hamilton. rose: right. >> group of foreign policy people outside ofhis national securitapparatus. he wanted tongage i gave new example. we had this decision made on the financial legislation i don't want to keep comin back to it but it was o otr person's idea, the spear, to getit out of the way, deal with it now, and it me him rethink. so he likes to be challeng splelly. heikes to get out and allenge thessumptions of conventional thiing. its easy in the white house toget group think going. he wants that, he wants the best of his adsors to gve im knowing that it is t ing to just be mind melt. but he's willingo reach out and be challenged on a setf assumptions. he may dide to then say re's where we are, not me. but he is not intimidatedy

an intellectual challenge from those who have a different view. and i think that's welcomeed. >> rose: i also hearou aying and what happened in the senate anexample of thatxh,hat he wants to be bo not only becausehe thinks the te is demanded but because it's the nature of the persn. >> there's no doubt. i tink views -- this is a moment oferil buthat peril is also is a nugget of possibility. and you can't get that possibility thout a boldnessf action. and you have seen it to date. you've seen itn his wiingness on the policy leve offer dferent ideas to get there. d welcome a slew of different ideas. i think one of, i'm projectingut i've had engh conversations, i think, with members o the other rty, that i thi they wlcome the openness of thr approach. owing full wl you may

not alwaysgree. but that at least we're gointo lten a take sinrely a setof ideas. rose: and he is prepared to go over their hea if necessary as ronald reagan did because he knows he has rhetorical gift that served h in the campaign, probably would n have been elected without it either the primary nominationr -- democratic nomination or the general election. and therefore he has a to. >> it's not like you d what i want -- it not saying to the senate you do what i want or i will g over yr hea >> he is saying them and to ameca, you know, i'm going touse my conneion withhe american people and whatever understanng i have of technology d my own skills touild -- you'reitting, let me y 's dealing with the two sides of pennsylvania avenue. i think the president's basic proach say twway street. that's number one. and i thk people on the other side of pennsylvia appreciate that. a presidentas a dferent role than member of

congress or senate. not onlyre they responsie for keeping the flow of the two sides of pennsylvania avenu moving. th also have aob to speak to t country. and so that the loll betwn th oval office d main street is also an open two-way strt. and so you are in a town of politicians i'm se they all have taken notes that he is doing quite well with the aerican people. and that they are hopinge succeeds. and so you know, you know, charlie, i lov politics. i think it is a good thi. >> rose: so do. >> okay, youre in a town of liticians. they have taken note of the where the amican people are as it relates to president obama. >> the polls ow it and his ridents show it. >> that is a good ing. the challenge isn'we are going it gover your head. he has a job t communate to t american people that is part of his job. they ha a job to commicate to their cotituents. he has job to do it to all 0 states and let them know what his decision is. and hs very clear he wants to continue to do that.

itould be essential to t ob of the presidency in today's time. >> rose: you have been generousith your time. and i thank you very much thank you. >> t watt certificate really good. >> rose: thk you. >> thank you, i'venjoyed it rses this is an exciting time for everybody. whatever side they are on. and however they are uniteed by the nse of concern and re for the country. >> i do think having ent a loof time in the ll in the last week, iill say thisegardless of how anybody ted on a particul issue, there is a sense of common purpose by the legislive bnch that this is a unique time. and i think peop can walk away sensing that their elecd officials know that this is anxtraordinary time time that requires extraordinary awers.

>> fundingor charlie rose has been proded by the following: