captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer pductions >> lehrer:ood evening. i'm jim leer. on theewshour this thursday-- the leastory is the summit in italy. margaret warner repts on the clima change agreement, among other things. then, we have the her news of the dayincluding the renewed tensions iiran a month after the elections; thfirst in a series of stories about innovion-- tonight, a ok at sharing software; an updaterom afghanistan on todas truck bombing and the u.s. mari offensive in helmand province;

and a profile of write poet, hunter, angourmand, jim harrison. major funng for the newshour with jim lehrer is provid by: >> the rld is changing, and w we use energy today canno beow we use it tomorrow. there is no o solution. it's not smply more oil, more renewables or being me ficient. it's allf it. our wayf life depends on developg all forms of energy, and to use less of it. it's time to put o differences ade. will you be partf the solution? chevron, human energy. intel. supportinmath and science education for tomorrow's innovators. thetlantic philanthropies. and withhe ongoing support of these institutions d foundations.

and... thiprogram was made possib byhe corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to youpbs station from viewers like yo thank you. >> lehrer: the group of 8 instrial nations wound up their summit day with a pledge to limit global warming. president obama joined his felw leaders in making that commitment at gathering in ita. he conced the worldwide recessions an obstacle, but he said the g-8 made "portant stride.g >> lehre even so, there were

questions out whether other countries will jn in limiting greenhouse gas emissions. and the u.n. seetary general, ban ki-moon, said even th summit nions fell short. the policies that they have sofar is not enough. it's not sufficientnough to meet the target. we must wo according to the science. thisis politilly and morally imperati and historic resnsibility for the leaders, for the fure of humanity. >> lehrer: the u.n. is pushg to have a new imate change trty signed in december. now, jeffrey brown has re of our ad story coverage. >> reporter: margaret, ls of gotiations and statements ov these two days on climae change. what'she significance? >>i think the real gnificance came today, jeff, when you had t just the g8the industrial powers but 17 countries including china india, and

brazil agreeneveral key respects. ty agreed thathe temperatu of the plat shouldot go uy more than 2 degrees over the preindustrial lels. and two,hese, all countries age to take meaningfulteps between now and theidterm, may 2020, 2025, they didn give a date, but to take meaningful at thes inthe midterm to mitigate their carbo emissons. now the eerging countrys did not agree as to as the euroans and americans had hoped they would, actually establish target force themselves, specific oes like 50% cut by 2050 or 80% cut by 250 but it i still a big step forward. beuse the attitude of all the emerge pog ar last year wasou big rich countries,you created this problem, it's your poblem to sve. we ed to gro. >>yes, and much of the past suggle in the climate change debate has been between the rgest

industrianations and the emerging or devoping nations. you'r saying some pgress but still muchore to be donen. >> that's wh a major focus for president obama and for he europeans here waokay, if we've the emeing countri now agreeing with this overall framework, scientifi consensus here but how do we stillget them to move to commit to something corete. so when presidenthu of china ha to leave because of the ethnic violence in china, they took that ti slot and asked the president of brazil tomeet with president obama this moing. and apparenly in that meeting, present of bzil saido preside obama, lo, we would like to work with yoon this. weould like to continue having disssions up to copenhagen but therere two things we nee theig rich countries have got take specific steps in the midterm, not just this far away 2050 goal. and al we really need help financin and techlogy transfer, they call it to

lp us build low rbon economies. and'm told president obama's response was we're fine with tt. becau technology transfer means more jobs for the u.s. in green technology. so as president obama said in the statement he made today there is a long, long way to go. and they don't underestimate the difficulty partilarly with china,ringing cha and india ang. but they fel thathey defitely achieved an important iremental step ich is that everyone is sing at least that they're invested inelping so solv a common prlem. not a pblem st for one oup of countries on the planet. >> of course all this is happening ashe politics of limate change in the u.s. have changed wth a n presint and recent action in congress. >>yes, jeff, and that wa an interesting subtext here. first of allthe europeans and the australians said sething today at this briefingwe're delighted see that the u.s., instd

of being the laggard in the room, had to be nudged ang as ey felt itas during the bush administration that you had the u.s. drving, trying to cme up with this consensus. and inactpresident oma chairing that major onomy f them today. the u.s. felt tat since passage of the houseill, it was able to say as secreta -- as press secretary robert gbbs said today look, we've nowot skiin the gamement it's time for you to putkin in the ge. they could sa that now to chinda and to ina and to razil. that said, president obama is somewt nstrained by the limits that congress is put on what it willing to . i meanhe house bil i won't get intothe numbers but the target of emissions ts were really consired lauable, maybe too strong t way too weak coared to ropean standards. so president ama, has, you know, his own, and he refered to it today. he said in th meeting i understood the dostic

reality force a loof my fellow leader because've got my own at home, wor to tht at home. so everyone's kin of alanced all of these competingimperatives. but think that the white house feels that at least they all emerge fr this strengthen when they go back home. >let's move to the iran situation. i understand tre was a lot of intense discussion that last nighthat can you tell us? >> yes yev, last night was the conversation on geo politic issues. and what emerged w a glass half empty, hal full. on iran y did g all of theseinisters to endorse the statement that their own foreign minters had made a couple weeks ag dploring the post-electi violence in iran and calling on ir to respect hun rights, the right pve test, the rig of peaceful dissent. it al went a little rther in that it total condemned the arrt of foreigners and of journalists. and what's more, there was an interesting statement in the statement condemning

what mahmohmadinejad had id about denying the holocau which was putn at france instigaon. n the nuclear issue they did not go r endorsin additional sanctions which fran very much wanted. but rusa wa ristant and said that would be counterpductive. but they did set another interim goal of september that is thatt the u.n. meeting ineptember, the g8 are all goingto get together and te stock of the situati. a president sar cozy sad last nht if iranasn't done anything to real get seriouabout talks and negotiations,hat at the g-20 summit ich immediatelfollows in pittsburgh,ollows the u.n., th quote decisions will havto be taken. >and you have some european countrs there at thesummit that have strong commercial ties withiran, right? so they wld be imcted by strong new nctions? >> absolutel, jeff. and fact, i'm told the present did not ask for these european coutries to make a cmmitment now, that if the talk trackoesn't

work, that they are ready to impose snctions. but i will give you a coupl of examples. we all know about russia oil & gas am but germany a italy, huge trading partners of iran. germany sls allindsf indtrial machinery, oil drehling equipment, a lot of high-tech machine that's really the backbone the german econy. it's an export drin economy. ita, at least a yearr so ago wasonsidered, i hadn't realized this iran largest trading partner. it's eni oil company has builtefineries in iran whichre very important to iran iran despite having all th oil doesn't have enough refined galine. nd iras bggest nk, has a hugeoperation in rome that really the major chrooinging house feu tra with iran. so for these two countrie especially in the mids of a obal economic downturn to agree restrict those coercial ties would be a

sacrifice. >> margaret warner at the g-8 smit in itly, than again. >> thanks, jeff. >> hrer: in other news today, nearly 60 iraqis we killed in a series of bombings; another 100 were wounded. it was the worst violence sie u.s. tops withdrew from iraqi cities last wk. in e city of tal afar, 38 civilians died when suide bombers staged a ordinated attacminutes apart. three other boings tore througbaghdad, killing 18 iraqis. two million pastani refugees will be allowed too home next wee they fled the swatalley region when an army offensivagainst the tiban began last april. the prime minister said toy the valley is now secure, an basic servicesave been restore in china, communist lders demanded peacee restored in the country's northwest. presidentu and members of the ruling committ issued their fst statement on the ethnic

rioting in xinjiang provinc more than 150 pele died there earlier this week. the warning came as 8,000 ri police march through the capital ci of the province. troops moved in yesterday in shoof force to calm the public and stop furer rioting. a new political fight has erupted over i.a. briefings to thu.s. congress. it cme to light today in letterfrom the chairman of the house inteigence committee, silvestre reyes, and otr democrats. they chged the agency has repeatedly misled lawmakers they said c.i.a. direcr leon petta acknowledged it in a briefing last nth. last may, house speer pelosi accused the c.i.a. of lyinto her about water-boarding teror suspects. on wall stre, the dow jones industrial average ined four

on wall street, the w jones industrial averageained four pots to close at 8,183. th nasdaq rose five points to clo at 1,752. >> lehrer: and still tcome on the newsur tonight: sharing software and svers; the fighting in afghantan; d poet jim harrison. that followthe still simmering tensions in tran. newshour correspondt kwame holman begins our corage. >> report: after more than ten days of retive, but restive, calm, protestors were backn the streets of tehran day, nearly a month aft the disputedlection that returned mahmoud madinejad to power. with a virtual dia blackout in place, ateur video posted on outube and similar web sites showed demonstraons in the capit.

the hallmark ces of the islamic revolution-- shouts "deatho the dictator" and "god is great"-- oncegain filled the air. today also marked theenth anniveary of a violent cracown on student protests at teran university. authorities warned a crushing response to unrest, and agn today, riot police and mitia spersed crowds. a sta-sponsored tv network described e scene. >> police used tear gas one locality to disperse the crd. security has been tht in the strts in downtown tehran thursdaybut onlookers did gather in numbers to watchhe demonstrations. >> reporter: other rerts said today's demonstratio attracted a few thousand peope. that is mh smaller than the gatherings of hundrs of thousan last month in support of opsition candidates, especially mir hsein mousavi, who said the election wasigged in ahmadinejad'savor. last nigh the iranian

president said e accusations of fraud were baseles. >> ( trslated ): in the ecount of the vote, no fault as discovered and, basicall those who haclaims couldn't even prode one document as a proof of fraud in the elction. the whole naon understood this, althougwe don't expect ordinary people to prode proof, buit is not acceptable from those who claimo be politicians. > reporter: on monday, iran supreme leader, ayallah ali khamenei, lasheout forcefully at his perceived exteral adversaries. >> ( translated ): leaders f arrogant countries and interlopers interferin in the affairs of the ismic republic should alize this-- that eveif the iranian nation has differencesmong them, when you and t enemies of the iranian nation come foard, theyet united and stand against you with a strongist. >> reporter: despi the defiant stand of ahmadinejad d his benefactor, khamei, president obama recently haseiterated his intentn to pursue diplomacy with the lamic republic.

but mr. obama acknowledg that the dubious ection, and the state's violent reaction the ensuing protests, have complicated matter he spoke on cnon tuesday. >> we have wait to see how the dust settles. right now,e have to continue to speak out and bearitness to the fact that thiranian people need to be treatewith justice and faness. but it certain complicates our efforts, becausthere's the possibili that those who are nown power in iran choose to retreh and dig in as opposed to open up. >> reporter: yesterday, m obama and the her leaders of the g-8 summit iitaly issued a statement ploring the post- election violence in iran. >> lehrernow, the views of karim saadpour, an associate athe carnegie endowment for international peace hepreviously worked in iran fo the inrnational crisis group.

and tritparsi, president of the naonal iranian american council and auor of, "treacherous alliae: the secret dealings of iran, iael, and the united states m sadjadpour, first, how do you read today's ptests w what is he meaning of them, do you think? >>ell, this was the tenth niversary of the 1999 tudent protests. and ty're celebrated on an annual base s iran. and i thi it underscores, gain, the depth of pople's sese of injustice a pem's sense of outrage given what transpired ree weeks ago at the election results. no one expected the scale these protests be similar to what we s a few weeks agout still saw eye witness aounts several thousand pele throughout the city. and again i think underscores ople's sense of qout rage but also the bravery andreat courage of the iranian pple. >> lehrer: can youadd anything based your information thayou got today as tohe extent of these protests -- >> they seem to ha been throughout e city but in smaller numbers. what the govnment has done

try to make sure that they prevent people fr being ae to gather i very, very large nbers. but nevertheles the most important point, i thinks, that people stilwent out. even though they knew the consequences. they've sn what has been happening to other protestors. and i tnk it shows th as the preside pointed out, the dust has not settled in iran. pr test movement, the disznlts -- dissent of t ode people 45 believe the election was stolen, that has notied down. is is not something tht has enred. >> what are they protesng? >> do you think they are still otesting the election or is tre soething more involved re? the whole rule othe government at thisoint? >> i truly think it's evoed since the pre-ection, pre-election ople's demands wre evolution within e confines of the islamic system. but i think people are ow asking for much mo. they are qestioningthe legitimacof the islamic system ielf. they are questioninghe legimacy of the supreme leader ayatollah khamenei. what is interesting tme talking to peopl in tehran behind the scenes i think tre more happening th we

know given thefact that thre is very little foreign media coverage in iran i was talking to a fend of mine in tehran who said that he lives in a neighbhood which is ef heavily populated by revolutnary ardsmen. >> leer: these are the government guys. >> exactly, the pople on the side of th government. and a night at people haveeen doing is chanti allah aqba,s a way to ptest. >> lehrer:he revolutionary guards are doing that? > yeah, this is in neighborhoo inhabited by revolutionary guardsm. i think certnly the governmenhas a monopoly over cocion right now and the sle of the demonsations have increased. t i think the fissures that exist behind closed doors we're still n privy too. >> lehrer: are yopicking up thoskinds of things as well? >> solutely. anithink we've seen that at the end of the day just because people are not the street all the time fighting, doesot mean that the suck nell ayway, shape or form is over wit peopleealize rather qukly that because of the ct that the government holds all the powernd all the violence it is not

cessarily the best strategy to constantly go outnd demonstrate. it's iortant to shhat we defied the authori of ayatollah khamenei but once they have swn that once, it's enough. now they need t use other tactics in order in order to be able to coinue the protest but ile reducing the casualty rate. >> lehrer: what other tactics are ere? >> well, they've been lking about strikes. thy've been talking about ther different ways that they can do and this is, i think, onof the points that really shows, this is not any type of protes at are bein revolution or orchestrated from t outside. this is something tt genuinely comingrom the inside. and part of the evence for thats that they ha improving. they don't ve the hand boo of the serbians or ukrainians oreorgians. they are improving the situation right now. >> lehrer:s it correct to ay that the u.s. policy hands-off is actlly real and th united states is keeng not only its mouth?v shut but its actio quiet too? >> absolutely. certainly r the fir few weeks afterthe elections the obama administration was very reful.

they didn't want to insert theunited states into this momentous internal iranian drama which was unlding for fear that we uld potentially hurt those whom we'rerying to help. a would recommend the obama administrati to ntinue that approach and t call prematurely for any policy of engagent. simply because i think tat would be demoraliz those people that are contiing to agitate against the government if they feel t unit states has accepted the outcome of these elections. >> lrer: do you agree there is nothing to be gaid by the united states encouraging whatev is going on. that we don't know b that you all have jt told us abut in tehran and the rest of iran. >> i have not heard from anyone insideof iran. at least not in large numbers that they belie that there is anything in paicular else that the united states should b doing at this poin doesn't mean thathey can't do thingsater on. but most importantly what si have been aring from pele is ey want the world to see wh is hapening. they kn very we that if the cameras away. if theyes of the global community star focus on michael jackson, on other hings it makes it easier

for theard line. wills it in the government to continue to clamp down and even increase its brutalit as long athe eyes of the world are there i thinkment wills inside of iran will still feel that they ha an ability to continuto call into question thi election. >> speaking of prot testers, w did you --what didyou ke of the fact that e government released,000 people who had been protestors andad been in jail for the lastcouple weeks or so. was that tered a gesture of wha what --. >> i don't -- i think that the scale of reprssion is still very hig wee not seeing exactly what trapired. i peonally have about a dozenriends in prison n in iq. >> lehr: still in prison. >> still in prison. >> leer: not one of the thounds who have been reased. >> no, ey are in sol taree confinemt. the governmentlaims about two dozen people have bee kille, unofficially the mbers i have seen are several hundred. so i think the scale of the repression i very high. and when theres no foign media thereo report ts,

i think theovernment feels they can get away with a lot more. >> dyou have friends till ijail. >> we ve common friends that have been put in jail and what is quite facinating about it is these are not political iividuals. some o these individuals are journalists or not eve that, th are rning consulting firms a dealing with economic analysisnd they ha been put in jail. i ink for the government toelease some of them may partly bbecause there is a lot of pressure on tm and they realize tt a lot of the violencethat they view as backlash. bupart of it is also because someof the peopl, a large portionf the people tha they prisoned ar actually part ofhis government. thesere elements that were part of --. >> lehrer: gi me an example. >>ndividuals around mousavi tt have been put in jail. these were iividuals there --. >> hrer: the lead are of the opposition. >> exactly. you had for instae the dghter of the former president,afsanjani being put in jail. it's ve difficult forhem toold individuals li th for a long period of time. >> lehrer: at do you make finally of what we saw in the set, kwame's setup what president obama said o tuesday, that this week,

let's lt the dust settle as both of you referred to bere we decide whetr to make any mor moves in any kind of official relationsh with iran. >> that's absotely right. i've always sd that i defer to th leaders of the opposition themselvess to what is best for em. and now i s leadersf the opposition saying that the europea, the united states shoulnot recognize this government yet. despite --. >> hrer: not recognize ahmadinejad. >>xactly, not recognize the results this election. o i think despite this isn't over there is still pley of fight in the opsition and just as we, the united states, didn't want to tiphe balance in favor of tose in the government of repressing people by comi out in favor of the opposition, the opposites true we don't want to endorse the results of tis election for fear that we are going to bety t millions of people who to to the streets. >> lehrer: how do y feel about that >> i wod agree with th. you c see that the opposition's fr is that rit nowak ak has not managed to pass the go line on his on.

you e still these demonstrations. you see still more people from the clergy comi out a questioning the results. the last ing theywant to see is t have international communy start dealing with ahmadinejad in manner that can help him pass and give him a push over the goal line when he cannot pass th goal ine himself. >> lehrer: in other words keep your mouth powd dry terms of the united states. >engagement and diplomacy isstill the policy. t united stat's interest in the region hasot changed but the's no need to rush towards those negotiations at thisoint. as the president said, let's really me sure theust seles first. >> lehr: you agree with that? >> absolutely. >> lehre all rht, gentlen, thank you both very much. good to talko you bo again. >> thank you. >> lehrer: now, thfirst in a series of sties about how pele are still innovating,

even in a time of recsion. toight, a high-tech solution t some real world computer problems. newshour corresndent spencer michelhas our science it report. >> reporterat wag hotels, an upscale g care facility in san francisco, life can get complicated for thhumans. some dogs come here forlay, some for nail clip some for vaccines; some ce for the day, some overnight. to keep track of schedul and appntments and supplies, managers ha begun using what's alled "cloud computing." rather tn relying on programs bought and install on company computs, wag hotels use programs a data stored on the internet, or t "cloud." c.e.o. richard gberg is a big enusiast. >> as grow, that means more servers, that means mor computers and soware for all of r employees. with cloud computin we

essentially can have a dmy termal for employees, and they go onto the interneand all of e applications are there waiting. >> repter: cloud computing is being touted as e next big thing in techlogy. the cloud, essentially, is e internet. data, then, iin the sky, or the clouds-- at is, on the intert, actually in some server waiting to be called down to earth justhe way you get informion from mapquest or a google search. sing the ever-gring storage capacity of srvers belonging to companies likeoogle or ibm, sinesses and scientists and others sre data on the internet, and then acce that ata and the programs tuse it online oy when they need it. it's like hiringaxis instead ofwning a car, if you don't need one all the tim it's eaper, and you don't have to worry about upkeep and breakdowns and parking. salesforce.com, a biness software seice company, is e

the leaders in providing cloud computg. e firm has nearly 60,000 business customers. >> ...his whole cloud that we have for infrastructur.. >> reporter: rk benioff, its .e.o., has become an apostle for the concept. >> you're not having to out d choose which software package is right for me, wha hardware. "is this software going to rk on this hardwa? oh, ai upgraded, am i updated?" all othat is done for you, just le it is on these nsumer services. you don't upgra amazon.com. >> reporte and you can run a wholbusiness from the clouds, a breakthrough called lti- tenancy. >> an office buildinhas multiple tenantswell, multi- tenan means that you're basically shari, not just an aprtment building or an ofce buildin but a computer system. it's a tremendous innovationn how we strture our software itse-- that instead of it being written just for you your server under your sk in your ofce, well, that stuff is

being taken care of for y in the cloud. >> reporter:ervers are computers that store and se out data, like a library. with smany servers linked gether, businesses or universities can vast increase available computing per, which they couldn't aord or organize without the cloud. and company like vetzzo, which makes counrtops from recycd glass, can put its sales and r material infmation on the internet, under a contra with salesforccom. it can be accsed and updated simuaneously by salesmen, executives, and other mpany officis. c.e. james sheppard says the cloud has sed him time and money that he usedo spend for expensive software. >> we track ery slab that you see in the factory, a we're shipping, you know, 6,0, 7,000 tops a yr out of here. every one of the slabs is tracked with a uniquid. >> reporter: software develors

fear ty could lose business to the cloud. and business s only one use. je mazzon uses cloud computg to run her family life. wittwin boys and a 5-year-old daughter, and artist husband, her schedule gets prett complicated. >> i'm not with t people that i love during the day i mean, you know, myusband, he works in the studio, myids are eitr with their grandparents or in dayce. so, in ordero stay in touch with them and ma sure that, you know, my hband picks up the kidsrom daycare that day, or, y know, that i remember to pick up the dryleaning, i rely onyou know, information sent to me here. >> porter: a product manager r google, mazzon stays in touch usingoogle docs, a program that rels on cloud compung. i can log into google docs and get infortion about, you

know, what my kids have de in school today from the teache and i can rpond and we can have a dialogue, sthat when i have, you kno five minutes between meetings of dntime, i can think, "y know what? i nt to use this five minutes check in with my teacher o how my kids areoing. " >> repoer: are you saying the teachern the school is on this syst, as well, and can reply to you? yes, absolutely. >> reporter: mazzon isware that some peop ridicule her incessant use of the inteet, nd the cloud, as too complicated. >> who doe't want a simpler life? for me, i find this way of wking more simple, because when i'm in a place a i need a piece of infmation, i have it at my fingerts. >> reporter: on thjob, she uses cloud computing tshare anwork on documents with fellow workers. >> what'changed is that everybody is working off e same rsion of the document that is in the cloud, verses watcng... working off of their different sis of the ocuments, each on their own computer. >> reporter: even theompany

picnic c be planned in the clouds: favote foods, and major dislik, and what everyby will bring. google, which es cloud computing in most its own developmt work, is betting the conct will take off and soon will be the standd in business. talked with eric schmidt, e c.e.o.,n google's own studio, about the scienceehind cloud comting. >computers have gotten so powerful that they n be tiny and amazingly usefu we can now have these hu data farms, a they're getting so mucmore powerful that we can make sure we kp all your information there and don't lose it like y will. >> reporter: so,hy is this importt? why... why do people say is is the next big thi, cloud computing? >> well, a simple questi for a consumer is, "have you er dpped your computer? have you er broken it? has it evenot worked on you? have you sat there and sai 'how do i back this tng up?' 'oh no, i just losty term paper.'" in cloud comping, the professionals keep tck of all the programs and the da, and

they make sure you don't lo it. >> reorter: to which a cynic might say, heygoogle was down for several hours rently, and previoly as well. if the netwok goes down, i n't have anything. >> wl, that was a terrible thing,nd we worked really hard make sure that doesn't happen. i c tell you that we're down loless than your computer i >> reporter: bunot everyone is in love with the cloud, particarly those worried about privacy issues. in fact, ibm is finding me compaes are reluctant to give their company secrets to third party, accordinto vice president willie chiu. >> they don't want to pudata in a cloud somewhere where hey n't know whether it's goingto be secure or not. so, having businesses feel secure, feeling fe, is what ibm all about. >> reporter: at the eltronic frontier foundation, ich advocates for internet priva, the concern is that da stored on the internet could be compromised.

cindy cohn is leg director. >> there's plain olhackers, things... security breees, sometimes we call these "ta valdez," where there's spillage of dat >> reporter: like the xxon valdez. >> le the exxon valdez, only it's your data spilling t, not oil. the second risk is from overarching vernment requests, and of cour, we've... we've seen, especially during theast admintration, lots of efforts by t government to wholesale e-collect iormation about americans frothird parties. and then, we needo make sure that there are her third parties don't have easaccess to that da, either. >> repter: but those in the data business say they're n worried. >> we operate under exactly e same laws that you doand if your infmation is so important you have to hide it from the government, we probabldon't want yoto give it to us nyway. >> the reality is tt there is tremendous lawsnd legal infrastcture globally to protect your privacy. >> reporter: so far, oud computi, while growing fast, is rgely used for basic business plications-- accounting, scduling, sales

a so forth. it may be hile before more complicated d specific needs, like architectura design, appear in the clou >>lehrer: you can watch more speer's interview with google c.e.o. schmidt on our web si andn our education page, "nshour extra," find more aboutloud computing and a lesson plan about pricy issues. it's at newshour.pbs.org. now, an update from ghanistan and thu.s. marine offensive in the south. we get that fromajiv cndrasekaran of the "washington postin kabul. judy woodruff talkewith him earlier this evenin >> wdruff: rajive, it's good to see you again, rst of all, whayou can tell us abo today's truck bomb near a shool in logar province which i gath is

not far from kabul? >> this was particularly horrifiact of vience hereoday. a total of 25 people were killed, 15f them young chdren in the worst bombing in mo than a year here in ahanistan. what appears to have been the case thathere were explosives that were creted underneath some mber in a truck that was headed towards kabul. that truck overturned late last night, this morning as police went to investigate and a bunch of chilen gathered around. those explosives detonated and leaving just a hrific trail of devastion. what's particulay disturbing hre is that ther is a belief that these explosives mightave been their way to kabul, the afghan capitol and logar provincis one of the quarter -- areas that has seen a significant irease in the numr of u.s. troo over the past year. and to see an ac of violence like this er there certainly raises some disturbing questions about the sorts of securi

condition just on the very outskirts of the cital he, judy. >> odruff: now you just came back from southern afghanistan which is the site of the main u. marino fenceive. tell us whatou observed there? >> well it was a massive operation that i saw over there. but one that was far ss fosed on ts of overt military power. on fire fights and nighttime raids. the real focus there ha been on tryg to win oer theocal population. it's averynique position these thousds of u.s. marines arbeing put in. they're outherealking around tryingo engage with the local population, trying to connce th tat they're here more for the safe of afghan people than they are%y to go after and puue the taliban. the hope among commaers out there ishat by tryi to win over t local

population they'll effectively create a wedge between the pele and the taliban. >> sore you saying that there really has not been much heavy fighting? >> there reall hasn't been, surprisingly. u know, i went down tere expecting to s, you know, an awful lot of fire fights, raids, you know, the stuff th u.s. rines do best. inste it's been fairly quiet. it appears that th taliban fighters in the area, there were quite a few fighters there jst afew weeksgo accding to intelligence estimates andccording to conversations i've d with cal people. lot of those fighters seem to have pked upnd left on ordersof senior could panrs just because there have been so many marines that flood mood that area. nobody pects those peop just to sort of op out of the fit. i think they're in a sort of regrouping mode trying to assess justwhat the mares are doing. and there is an expectaton among marine commanders that they wi start to see a resumptn of attacks in th

coming weeks a months. >> so i the military leadership concerne that this is the response? we know that they expected that something like this might haen. but how concerne are ty? well, that's a very od question. d i put that question to number o commaers i spoke to on the ground saying, you know, why aren't you chasing ter these guys or, you ow, aren't you worried that the ba guys are just getting ay? and they process notto be concerned. they say the strate here is really very different from the y the u.s. military has go about combating the tlb over the past seve years. ey're really trying to focus on civilian outreac on reconsuction, on trying to build up the local police force and the local unicipal government. and they fel that if they can do that and theyan build a degree of stabily they'll be able to peel off members of t taliban and sort of ick themback witn the fold. they believe that many of t taliban fighters are simply day labourerswho

take ve or10 a dayto lay roadside bombs or to participate in ambushes and so they feel that if they ca kind of cate a zone ofevelopment and at least progress that they can sort of rece the size of the talibanorce they're fighting andhen at some point in the future targ their opations toward a small group of extremist holdout >> but it's a bigamble whether they can -- you kn, wheer all this will actually work. it involves convinci the afghaneople that the u.s. milary is actuay here to sy. that they ar here toelp them out. it's no re bet and as i walked on many patrolsare the marines in prts of helmand pro since tre was a degree of vil aonghe local polation >> are officils telling you rajiv that they are pretty sasfied with where things are 1 week i >well, they'repretty optimistic at th point. they certain have been

surprised by the lack of taliban activity. but they do remain concerned going forward on a couple of dferent levels. thy're very concerned th ey don't have enou afghan surity forces to partnewith them. not enough afghan soldiers or police officers to go on patrols with them to condu check pints. and they'relso concerned that e other half of the great american effo here, the civilian side of the reconstruction effort has been a lile ow to get off t ground. officials i've tald to at the u.s. embassy here say that civian ronstruction persoel are coming in the next weeks and mont but rightow on the ground there are alot marine officers o are having to do some that basic outreach by themselves and hey're trying to improvise as tey go along. >> woodruff: rajiv, you've covered marinesin combat th in iraq and now in afghanistan. what would you say is differenabout this appach? >> well, in many ways there's a striking similarity here in that helmandrovince and anbar

province are both largely deserts with a river running through them. sites of great vience and crossborderinfiltration. b a key differen here is thathe marines likely will not able to replite the single biggest to of their success in anbar which was engagement witlocal tribal leaders to creat a militia forcehat especially stood upo the foreign fighters in iraq. the mane was love to do something like that in helmand province. but the tribal dynamics are so much more complicated at it may prove to be impossible. and there's a great degree of skism from hamid karzai's government in kabul as well as from nato mitary commanders of such a venture so itseems uikely tt the marine grsingto able to duplite what was their greatest ol of ccess in iraq a they'reoing to be rced to work through the existingnstitutions for security here in

afghanistan. d that of coursecauses them great conrn because ey simply don't have engh soldiers to work with them at thisoment. >> woodruff: one other ing, and thats theasualty count for u.s. troopsall across afghantan. what areilitary officials saying aout that? well, it's been particularly bloody week here. there have been a numb of u.s. cualties as well aa numb ofcasualtys from forces from other countri here. and wh apars to be case here th th taliban are demonstrati their ability to stri back in other pats of the country. in eastern afghanistan, in other parts of the sou where e marines an't, and most alarmingly,n northern parts othe country. there was a bombingjust a few days ago that killed four u.s.oldiers ne a northern city which had been relatively quiet and thatof course causes grt concern tha the iurgency here may

be mat tas that sizing beyd the south and east to the areas that are the greatest concernnd moving to pas of the cotry that ha long beenegarded as reatively stable, judy. >> woodruff: rajiv chandrasekaran joining us from kabul, afanistan. raj, thank you. >> it'a pleasure to talk to you tonht, judy. >> lehrerfinally tonight, ravens, rattlesnakes, etry, and a writenamed jim harrison. jeffrey brown has o story. >> reporter: jim harrisois a walke- these days with his gs, zilpha and mary. 's also a hunter, a fishermn, a gouand, and, as he once said, "not incentally," a wrir and poet. >> today the gods speakn drunk talk pullingt a heart too old for thisalk, a cd windy day kneeling at the

mouth of the sne den where they lled 800 rattlers. >> reporter: mostf harrison's 32 booksincluding "legends of the fall", "dalva," and "rurning to earth," have been set in the sparsely populad areas he knows well: northern michigan, the sandhills of nebraska, the arizona-mexico borr, and here in the beautiful padise valley near livingston, montana, wherhe now lives much of the year. >> other than fishing d a little bi-hunting, all i do is write. >> reporter: harrison a determinedoutsider," in all senses. >> you reay get a hang of the country, ratr than be struck in what i call thgeo-piety of the easterseaboard. > reporter: careful, because you know that's whe i am. >> i kno but you serve it, too. but itoes happen. >> rorter: now 71, jim harrison a falstaffian

figure-- blinin his left eye from ahildhood accident, chain-smoking his amecan spirit cigarettes-- pt wild man, part cultated literary lion, who peppers hispeech with talk ofirds and great ets of the past. it's poetry, in fact, that s remained harrison'sirst love. his new collecti is called "in search ofmall gods". >> you sense those srits in certain, often remote aces, whether it's the spirit animals, the spit of trees. so ose are the small gods. >> reporter: and th appear throughout thespoems, which sod as though they're coming from t walks you're taking. >> i think that's true. because you have the little breakthughs. i've known this group of rens for 19 years, chauha ravens, mexican rave, and last year,

several times, they beg to takealks with me. >> reporter: then yoput them in youroetry? >> ye you do. what is it that blakeaid-- "how do know but that every bird who cuts the airy wais an immse world of delight close to our sees five?" that perception-- what is poible in the natural world? >> reporter: in the can behind his house, hrison writes every day longhand, no computer. he's always at wk on a novel, which begins, r him, with a particular aracter whose story he finds he has to tell. poetry is difrent. >> poetry, there's still a b of the burning bush aspectof poetry descendg on you. bang. as they y, you never quite see it coming.

>> reporter: in youroetry, i hear what i think is yo- "i, jim harris, looking out at the world." > it would be the truest "i" i could offer. it's often fun in fiction construclayers and layers of ambiguity, which is not psible in a poem. 'i hope to define life, whatever left by migtions, south and north with the birds and far from the metallic ver of clocks, the self staring the clock sayingi must do this. can't tell the time on the tongue the river in the cool rning air, the all of the ferment ofreenery, the dust off the canys rock walls, the swallows swooping abovthe scentf raw water." >> reporter: after years

barely scraping and refusing ffers of academic positions, hrison made his money and began living the gh life in hollywood, writing fms like "wolf" for jackicholson, who bece a friend. hrison also became known for his legendary eating an drinking. food, for harriso is more than just e of life's small pleasures-- his mot is "eat or die" he wrote food column for "esquire" mazine for many years, and he and lindahis wife of almost 50 years, ill cook and fet together. they sred with us what harrison thought oas a modest meal of rsted wild pig, omegrown vegetables, and fin wine. diagnosed with dietes several years ago, harrison has meowed a bit. but wi several books of poetry and novels in just the st few ars, he's more prolific than

ever. >> i' been inordinately prodtive these last five years, and i think itas bling down your life. dogan, an old 14th-ceury philosopher, talk about "cooking down your life". you cookown your life till the sae is just right so you can let go. >> reporter: there is, fact, much about loss a grief in harron's writing these days. his brother and a nber of iends have died in recent yers, and on our walk near antelope butte, hetold me of a ta he'd had with one of them, a native american, just fore his death. >> i was fallinapart and he said, "don't be upt. thesehings happen to people." isn't that an credible thing to say? >> porter: of course, a lot characters in youbooks are like that, aren't they >> yeah.

that is native american stoicism. thy tend to see the whole arc. moving gher my thumping chest recites the name of a dozen fiends who have died in recent years, namesow incomprehensible as the mountains across the ver far behind me. i'll always be walking up tard antelope bue. rhaps when we die our names are taken from us by a divine magnetnd are free to flutter here and the within the bodi of birds. i'll a simple crow who can reach the top of antelope but. >> lehrer:im harrison reads more poems from his w book, "in search of smallods," on our poey page at newshour.pbs.org.

again, the mar developments othe day: esident obama and other worl leaders pledged to lit global warming at a summitn italy; more than 50 iraqis wer killed in a sers of bombings. anher 100 were wounded; d thousands of iranians defi police using tear gas andiot clubs to stage new protest in tehran. an a foowup to a story st month, thetalemate in the new yorktate senate, the kamber was delocked and all major action was stalledfter a demoatic senator switch sides and joined the republicans. well, today he switched back to the democrs. and he bame the majority leader. mocrats will now control the state senate again 32-0.

-- 32-30. and again to our hon roll of arican service personnel killed in t iraq and afanistan conflicts. weddhem as their deaths are made official a photographs bece available. he, in silence, are 13 more.

we'lsee you online, and again here tomrow evening with david brooks and ruth marcus,mong others. i'm jim lehrer. thank you and good nit. major fundingor the newshour with jim lrer is provided by: intel. supporting math and scien education for torrow's innovatos.

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