access.wgbh.org >> from washington, the mclaughlin group. the american original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. >> issue one. the new zeitgeist. >> so as the main stream parties in europe lose popular support over the financial crisis, it was inevitable that political options outside the traditional elites would rise as a result. the french election is one of what will likely develop into several examples of the euro skeptic message gaining appeal among those disillusioned with the traditional european system. >> disillusionment with traditional political parties and politicians is a worldwide phenomenon. in the wake of the worst recession since the great depression, voters and democracies as far flung as

india and denmark have been in an anti-incumbent mood, and the u.s. is no exception. donald trump's meteoric rise on a platform of economic nationalism is the latest manifestation of voter frustration with political insiders. according to a recent monmouth university poll, 68% of voters say they would not elect barack obama to a third term. from spain's movement to den mack's danish peoples party political outsiders on the left and the right are taking power from main stream political parties. in the european union's parliamentary elections last year almost 25% of the seats were won by anti-e.u. parties, which favor economic nationalism. placing their own country first over common european union interests. the new world zeitgeist is that globalism is out.

in. in addition to the united states, over the coming 12 months important elections will be held in the united kingdom, spain, portugal, and ireland. collectively, they with determine whether the world retreats from the global economic and political integration that has characterized the past 25 years. is this phenomenon true across the developed world? pat buchanan? >> it certainly is. first, what donald trump represents, more than ideology or politics left or right, is anti-establishment, anti-elite, anti-washington, overthrow the system that has failed. and in europe, as well, you see the european euro skeptic parties. they want to get rid of the big central government of the european union. some of them want to break away. scotland wants to break away. you got cat lone ya wants to break away from madrid. this is a force. economic nationalism, tribalism, economic populism, ethnonationalism, these are the

forces really. it's not simply europe either or the united states but all over the world these forces are becoming predominant. centralism is in retreat. >> is this phenomenon bigger than the rejection of main stream political parties? is it a rejection of globalism with its cross-border trade and outsourcing of jobs that enriches the global elite, eleanor clift? >> i just think all of these fancy words are putting lip stick on a pig. i think donald trump is basically a jingle-istic know-nothing who talks as though there are really simple problems. you know, get me in the ring with the chinese. if there is one analogy i think it's the u.k. and jeremy corbin who is a 30-year veteran of the parliament, and he suddenly has taken off with a position very similar to that of bernie sanders. i do think there is the rise of the have nots around the world in every country you do have a small elite that does very well

and everybody else gets left behind. i think that's finding its political voice in europe and throughout the world. i don't think this is trumpism going global. >> why have main stream political parties been slow in responding to the angst many citizens feel in the aftermath of the great recession? >> i think partly because the people at the political level were somewhat unaware of that feeling. i think you see actually, you know, pat speaks today talking about some of the republican party now who are trying to push trump out. i think that's the worst possible thing you could do. as someone who is not a trump fan by any estimation, what we need to be doing as conservatives with trump is challenging him on the points where we disagree but actually understanding that, yes, if you have a party where people are very concerned about immigration, then at least talk about immigration and offer your own solutions, which i think is happening. perhaps pat would say it isn't. >> well, we appreciate the

anxiety you're bringing to this message -- don't think you persuaded me. the median income for the washington, d.c. metropolitan area is now over $90,000. the highest in the country. does that help explain why the political class is insulated from the economic pain most americans still feel? clarence? >> to some degree, yeah. but, i mean, that income is a reflection of the education level around the washington, d.c. area. this is a white collar area. this is not a factory town. i think that i'm really wondering how much of this can be explained by the fact that it's august. this is not a time, august in an off year, when people, most people are sane enough to have other things to think about in august besides politics. the trump folks, those i've talked to, i bump into them everywhere, i bumped into a security guard last night who said donald trump really tells the truth. that was a big thing with him.

i said, are you going to vote for him? he said, well, i don't know. but he really tells the truth. >> you said or he said? >> he said that, yeah. >> the fact is he doesn't tell the truth. the things the guy quoted were patently false but they sounded good. >> okay. hold on. trumping iowa. a new cnn/o.r.c. poll of likely republican caucus goers in iowa puts donald trump in first place with 22%. the poll also shows ben carson, a retired neuro surgeon, in second place with 14%, and scott walker, governor of wisconsin, in third place, with 9%. get this. the poll suggests mr. trump has a 35% lead as the candidate most likely to change washington. what does that tell you -- >> carson is an outsider. carly fiorina is an outsider. i think cruz to a degree is an outsider.

trump is an outsider. to eleanor's point, bernie sanders and that fellow in britain, that is a different kind of economic populism, let's bring down the rich, etcetera. trump is wiring into immigration, the change and alteration of society. the census bureau says we got 42 million immigrants in the country. people are wondering, why are all these folks coming? they're driving down wages. who's doing this? what they're against, frankly, is the yee leets of this country who are basically backed by the corporatists, backed by the money party. >> running on antiimmigration, the dark underbelly of nativist politics is not how you win an election in this country. i believe you need to be optimistic and not optimistic about how you're going to drive out all the immigrants. >> trump has plugged into this borders. it's all over europe as well. >> trump has fewer answers than you did, pat, when you were

running on the same issues. >> people have a right to be concerned about this. >> people have a right to an answer, to some solutions, some suggestions. trump has no -- >> no policy speeches. >> well let him present it. he made the issue. let's have a serious debate about immigration. i agree we need a serious program, comprehensive immigration reform. we are nowhere near that. we have plenty of people like trump ready to exploit the issue. >> i'm going to answer my own question are economic populism and nationalism the new world zeitgeist and the rising force behind candidates like donald trump in the u.s. and nigel farage in the u.k.? voters around the world are dissaturdays with how main stream politicians have handled the great recession and its aftereffects. they are in an anti-establishment mood and turning to outsiders. >> it is not only economics. sanders is economics i agree but trump is not.

immigration is not simply economics but about culture, changing the composition of a country against the will of the people. >> nobody is talking about stopping all immigration. you are, pat. there is a difference though -- there is a middle ground in the sense it is not just fanatical racism on one side and people on the other. there is a meeting ground where people are concerned. u.k. independence party in the right. trump doing that. but we also have to challenge it where we disagree. one final point. jeremy corbin in the u.k. is, you know, there is -- the example. they are neo nazi but they're not, you know, not -- >> trump is passing -- >> let pat answer. >> the swiss people voted to basically get out of the borders. people don't want their

countries overrun by people from abroad, foreigners. >> pat, the american electorate is young people. it's minorities. >> i'm telling you what is. >> trump is responding to a quarter of the republican party that you have been giving voice to but that is not america. >> no. the republican party right now. >> i want to know whether this phenomenon of economic nationalism and populism is true across the developed world. the answer is the political consensus of the past 25 years was that greater trade and more economic integration would deliver prosperity but instead the incorporation of hundreds of millions of low paid laborers into the world economy destroyed scores of millions of jobs in the developed world. lower and middle class voters across the developed world are in slow motion revolt. true or false? >> look at vietnam. globalization in the long term and capitalism has done more for human good than any other ideology by a long way. there are costs to it. we have to be astute.

that's why you need education. >> you're talking about one country, vietnam. i'm talking about masses of people. >> what we are seeing in the united states is being seen worldwide. >> nafta is despised in ohio. working people who have been shafted by these deals to send jobs to china. look, china devalues its currency --. >> and trade was way oversold and politicians actually from richard nixon onward are very adept at playing on people's grievances and that is what donald trump is doing today and he is being very successful in august of the year before the election. >> this is legitimate. >> i'm not saying they're illegitimate but i don't hear any solutions that make any sense. >> this segment of the program will be decipherd by the audience. when we come back, the currency

war. >> issue two, china declares currency war. >> i think you have to do something to rein in china. they devalued their currency today. they're making it absolutely impossible for the united states to compete. >> china's communist government abruptly devalued its currency this week. in a move to boost its exports at the expense of its trading partners, particularly the united states and the european union. by weakening the yuan, chinese imports become cheaper in the

u.s. and europe, thereby strengthening chinese manufacturing and hurting american companies. the dow jones industrial average average dropped 214 points. the stock markets around the world fell in response to the devaluation. beijing's decision to cut the yuan's value comes amid growing economic chaos at home. china's growth rate has fallen precipitously over the past year and its stock market has dropped 24%. despite beijing's frantic efforts to prop it up, the sudden policy shift could not come at a worse time for the obama administration. president obama's efforts to complete the trans-pacific partnership trade pac depends on thwarting congressional demands to include rules that bar currency manipulation, but china's devaluation now puts pressure on prospective t.p.p. partners such as south korea, japan, and other nations of asia to follow suit with their

own devaluation. a general currency war would undermine the benefits of the trans-pacific partnership and global trade, dampen the economic growth in the united states, and give rise to protectionist pressures around the world. also, next month chinese leader xi jinping will meet with president obama in washington for a formal summit. great video, shelly. question, what will president obama do in response to china's currency manipulation? i ask you. >> i expect a wait-and-see attitude, john. the real thing that china's leaders are afraid of is their own people especially young people in their country who have been investing in the stock market and expecting it to keep going up and they learned, surprise, stock markets go down sometimes. this has caused a remarkable panic over there among a lot of people who have sunk too much of their savings into the market. the government is very much

concerned about that kind of anxiety could lead to street protests and the kind of resistance. so that's china's primary concern, and i think the u.s. has to know how to hold back --. >> president obama is going to do nothing. the chinese economy is deflating right now, going through in effect what we went through in 2008 and 2009. it's in the stock market, affecting real estate, banking. leaders over there are frantically trying to do everything they can to stabilize things and they're struggling. there is not really a role for the u.s. right now. >> the u.s. could, i mean, look. if they devalued 2% or 4% all they got to do is put a 2% or 4% tariff on their goods, take away the benefit of that. but we won't do that because that would be the beginning of economic nationalism where we start looking out for america rather than china. but i do agree with both of you.

i think china is in very grave condition. crushing descent, corruption all shot through that place. the communist party, its basic legitimacy rests on the old world revolution. it doesn't exist. if they fail at what they're doing, what is the argument for maintaining the communist party's monopoly of power? that is what xi jinping is at bottom worried about. >> china has a profound advantage in one way though that, with their alignment of finances with the asian investment bank, the struggling t.p.p., their ability successfully so far to overwhelm the obama administration's foreign policy with this island construction which is a profound challenge to nations, to new american allies like vietnam and -- >> but one thing that china has an issue in the economics in the sense of the divorce between rural and urban -- poverty. but also, there are major structural inefficiencies and this is -- they are being undercut with wage growth. >> they're feared and disliked

by almost all of their neighbors. >> right. >> we are not. >> we should take advantage of that. >> how likely is it that japan and south korea will follow china's lead and devalue their currency? the answer is they'll watch how obama handles china and hope the yuan slide is reversed. if obama can't get china to change course, south korea and japan will have to devalue. otherwise they lose marketshare to chinese competitors. >> japan has been slowly devaluing its currency to increase its exports into the united states. they play these games, manipulate their currencies. that's why the united states has gotten cleaned and why donald trump is being listened to. >> you're looking at this country of china and you have to have some alliance that is competitive with it. >> do you think apples, johnson & johnson and young brands are going to be hurt by the devalues? >> you know who is going to benefit, american companies who located factories in china love

it if they devalue because then united states -- >> donald trump would bring you forget. >> issue three. hillary's college plans. >> i believe this will save thousands of dollars for many students and it will also mean that more money will be freed up for these young people and their families to do other things with it. >> hillary clinton says that if she is elected president of the united states 15 months from now she'll help students graduate from college with lower debt. her plan will cost $350 billion. over 10 years. $35 billion a year. first, refinancing. the plan will allow students to refinance loans at lower interest rates. second, $200 billion in federal grants for states that provide

"no loan, four-year degrees at public colleges and free colleges." third, capping loan repayment at 10% of a graduate's annual income. fourth, unpaid debts will be forgiven after 20 years. spend thrift liberal advocacy groups are praising mrs. clinton's plan, but parce moan youse republicans are -- parsimonious republicans are critical and say the plan is paid for by higher earners who won't get deductions on their taxes. also charities and other philanthropic groups that rely on the deductions will be hurt. she should go elsewhere if she seeks to grasp the mantle of economic populism from her democratic challenger bernie sanders, but she is on her way. just last month mrs. clinton announced she would protect union organizing rights. >> it's time to stand up to efforts across our country to undermine worker bargaining power.

which has been proven again and again to drive up wages. republican governors like scott walker have made their names stomping on workers' rights and practically all the republican candidates hope to do the same as president. i will fight back against these mean-spirited, misguided attacks. >> how likely is it that hillary clinton can finance a $350 billion college spending program by closing deductions for the wealthy? eleanor clift? >> she has a credible plan here and if she is elected, this would be as important to the country and to her legacy as president obama's affordable care act. college affordability is a huge issue, substantively, and also politically, the kind of issue that will get people to the polls and get those millennials to the polls to vote for her. she is going to put pressure on the republicans to come up with some credible plans as well. this is very good, a very good move.

>> come on, eleanor. this is d.o.a. it changed the subject from the server and classified documents. >> that's okay. >> pat, hold on. >> hillary has a terrible political problem with a server and classified documents. let's give a $350 billion plan --. >> what really matters here is the optics. people who care about those college loans, young people and their parents, love this idea. and so if it does die people will say, okay. who was fighting on my side and who wasn't? here. >> it's just the expansion in terms of subsidies. it is not going to address -- there are little tacit things in there but it won't address inflation. what we should be focusing on are community colleges, expanding, and technical schools. >> she does that. >> and federal funds for online

training. it's good to be a plumber and electrician. too many people are going to college and graduating without jobs. >> hold on. this is public universities, public colleges. states would get money only if they keep tuition down. there are strings attached. it would end the scam where kids get pell grants and then they just raise tuition at the colleges and the colleges scoop up the money. that is structural reallocation of federal money. >> she won't have the support in congress. you know that. >> right. >> to find the money she'll have to raise taxes or limit class. that is going to go over like an iceberg. >> i didn't hear that. >> the rich are going to pay, clarence. >> the rich are going to pay. good idea. >> right. >> we'll be right back with predictionings -- we'll be

right back with predictions. go get help, boy. go get help. go get help! right now! if you're a cat, you ignore people. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. go on kitty, kitty...

>> hillary clinton will have a or no? >> eleanor? >> no. >> yes.