signed to sit down as a rabbit hole and into a world of washington. the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter live out french president emmanuel. the ground says he's advocating strategic ambiguity when it comes to ukraine. this includes funding western military personnel to fight for cubes. this is not strategic ambiguity, but rather strategic confusion. the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess oprah desires in geneva. he is an

author and former un independent expert in international order in brussels. we turn to appear emmanuel to a month. he is a lecturer at leon university and in nice request to alex become well rich. he is a veteran reporter and foreign affairs analyst or a gentleman cross cycles. and the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. i would somebody go to you 1st and nice because you're in france, so nice. so i started out with the french president here. he says he's advocating a form of strategic ambiguity and then he says, under the conditions in which he will send troops, his troops, nato troops, somebody's troops, i don't know, of, and those conditions are it kids lines break, or they a request is made, prized zalinski. so it, i don't see that as m. b a and beauty, i find it confusing and certainly very dangerous. go ahead, alex, find a deity, right? it's one of 2 things. either you don't know what you're talking about early, because you see like it's, it's, it's that simple going all along the lines of his

a is going to send troops. and if a line breaks, or if you create, makes a request, well, i think you created would have already made that requested. but i had a chance to make a request. these, these are you applying the sky ideas. and i felt like little napoleon here, he's, he's pushing out all these ideas to, to need a while later was really not going back in the morning. you talked and he said, politician, nobody wants to go in, so you create a fish. now the other side of that coin is, we know that since 2014, they couldn't use the americans, the french, the british, everybody stayed on the ground in ukraine unofficially. so what does this make of what the process of staple makes a big difference? actually when you're looking at the bit with maddox, your face, when you say you're basically on the ground, well, that takes things off a level and that's what people are sick and tired. we need to stop this type of rhetoric. we should be pulling back. we know what the situation is on the ground. winds have been broken time and time again because you created a body off, their backing off, their line is being broken very quickly and solidly in the past few months. so why

would background say this? past, right? i mean, you have germany, which is the economic engine of europe, and then you have france, which is the most hardcore military, let's say the troops or existence or the military gear. and you're the armstrong, you know that about france. but that does not mean that you shouldn't be rattling that sort as much as i get rambling it. i hope that the president, she told him a thing or 2 about this call to actually run these days. because i need to sometimes have the adults in the room and we know went back from that with him. we all looked like the adult in the room. so let's go back, let's stop playing these uh, you know, the slow your games with one another. let's get some solution. yeah, i agree, alford, you know, the, but if you look at the, the, the predicate of the crown statements and he's got his all over the place. he actually was very conciliatory in the beginning of all of this. now he's trying to be the hoc in nato, but you know, it'd be the, the way the conditions that he said they know if the lines break. and this owens

the, makes the call. doesn't that tell you that the ukraine is losing and maybe they should try a different strategy, alfred. or obviously a plan is losing and they know what they're putting themselves on under pressure. and this makes me think of another french napoleon i fully understood who did not stop provoking the impressions. and his arrogance forced them eventually, just to say, face to declare war on prussia, which he lost in 6 months now. um, we don't ones that we have no clear states that can destroy not only themselves but the rest of humanity. so you need to break that gridlock, you would need to break the break as you need to accept the fact that the whether

we would like it or not. we'll live on only one land and uh, as we cannot afford to continue with escalation. what is not only mat crohn whose mad on it is joe biden, and anthony blankets and all of shots and his board minister and recei. uh, so like this for minutes or um uh, david camera on there. oh. using very belligerent rhetoric. well, i mean, okay, now, now that you brought up a camera on, i'll go to appear menu. well, i mean, he, very, um, uh, loosely said, you know, that, you, you craig can use whatever british weapons they want hand wherever they want, even against rush. i brush are proper and then the, the, the, the response to that is that the russians are saying, well, they will respond to any use of weapons or use against rush or use by the

ukrainians. if it's use in ukraine or even beyond ukraine. now that is getting serious business here. go ahead peer emanuel. yes. that your looks like and not chief of for our western states and we tried so. so trying to take the lead, know of the and not to you for underlying got to are you create a new will be the winnings along the russia should lewisville war. and this is not the up thing on the grounds. so regarding the public opinion or the, the very relies there being a top 30 muse interpreting risk of crises from the beginning paper. notice they understand little more about or, or if it's not to be less fate. and the image really mccormick, overall wisdom the just been don't know what to do more to,

to steal up your us credit or andrew are the way the filed is to increase or the, your ok, she's not chief like crew putting troops on the wrong, the beating the size or hitching your territory of russia or vote, but from the french, fun of you, you're good or so these are in town or the debate in france, we'd be a mixed and said your pin part of an approaching wherever the politic are brought to remind you that and by cool is very, is gonna lose the butter because or how somebody informed us ronada, these main opposition be for you still by the on buying, looking uh is know the dollar dollars votes expected from the bought to you have made money very much okay, so the money and my code liked great falsities, not cheap of being very strongly international. they don't have very many. well, let me ask the question, do young uh french soldiers want to go fight in ukraine?

apparently they're already there. so i'm, i mean i, it would be the, the, the general staff of france will allow them across to make that decision. i mean, or even the people make a decision here that the same, this, the stikes, the mistakes are so high for someone pastoring. yes, that's right. of each center was because or it looks like you're this narrative is increasing on the rising mistakes on india. and we don't know because to look pretty boiler or immigrating back home might to be of feel obliged to do something to do it tuesday and really troops officially. we don't know, but are many general are seen for us experts, stacy, issues. she's are, you will be a disaster because france has nothing to come up with each with strategy come big. you cheat your need, the you sure military company beatitude behind on for us as is not ready for instance that you will. this is why it is so denture was renewal,

but to be honest with you, some instruct charles on the grounds and of it tried to hide this fact and the question is, would it become office charge with troops on the ground? and the, even though we've been minimum reverse of troops or each wouldn't be a disaster un, under most a french deeper does that really bucks if you made, put the to card properties of position, disagree be but, but it would be scenario tv, student going on a think on to the end of your pen, it actually was made maybe well, i mean, you know, it was good and let me go to alex back and needs it. it was pretty pathetic if you're doing this kind of calculation based on europe and elections that the stakes are much higher then these elections coming up here. you know, the problem alex here is a mate. chrome keeps saying russia we should not be allowed to win. is that a strategy and what about ukraine? go ahead. no. i mean, that's a big question and i,

what are the say the rest of the wants to take over all of the tree that has never been the the, the idea. if anything, the 1st lube is a key was to do the exact same thing that the americans did announce the cool government. and basically put somebody else in charge with a little bit more concepts. the people that are running the show at the time for russian to take over ukraine, again, that that's not at any strategic value to reference goals. although to the parent, they're holding the land and the russian speakers with their loss, their rights to speak, their language, ross butler, just to teach their, their kids russians to watch the rights to how they're signed up in russian. i mean, these are, these are things that we see you have been around the world when you are either ethnic cleansing or you're pushing people out of an area. so of what russians did was defend the people of people that could identify themselves as russian does rush . i have an a, a, basically some sort of idea of going to the very end of your credit of inquiry about missiles pointing out at your russian missiles. don't have to go up to the border of the youtube to hit their targets. just like western missiles. don't have to go up to the board or russia, but for some reason, they thought it would be

a good idea to expand the needle ukraine, which is the biggest level of land next to russia all the way up to the border. and we all know, i think we all know that we're sitting here and the people that are watching this. we know how this started. we know that there were negotiations on the table that this never had to happen. and they all came from the west u. s. brands and in the head of your people, i've been talking more forever honest with the you out of see all of this is the 1990 this money. that's the bottom line. we have special interest groups in the united states. and beyond that, we're making a lot of cash with this. and at the same time, a lot of people are dying and they don't have to send americans. and when they can use, you could use as content and ponder and those poor civilians are going through. this are absolutely no reason this can't stop. well, alex, so they can say to you, before i say with you before we go to the break here, what happens if french troops start dying? what is background going to do that? well, they say that the red pressure mercenaries of what? well, the power in lead time, they say, is already there,

they say the forwarding legions already there of before images ever and again, j. c, up to the canadian aspects of horses or wherever they are in 2014. and i'm sure they're, they're there to some degree right now. just like probably all righty. i'm still going to have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion. now you can stay with archie. the, on the lease of counter the russian states. never as one of the most sense community best in most all sense and up the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians per day and split the ortiz full neck,

even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the $72.00 question, did you fix the request, which is the additional shot for your child to be 0? part of those causes brackets umbrella. moving, you might need some quotes from success syndrome along with it, but she did. so could you put a your you will was ma'am, i'm just proposing it's too much is it doesn't move someone your and your cell phone is fairly pulling me off him. but on unity contributing, there's a way as little as what the,

with the city to look at the work being done. so we've got you, we've got, we're going out. this is what you put up by the beginning. was letting you know that you saw my phone. i remember them, i'm done to, to the call which is the solution for the of dealing with the sale. molly mclaughlin, you put some like, here's an idea of what happened. was it really initially for 5 years i've read it to the point unless the visiting of ne of suffering and my son is full time use other people to touch it the the the

the welcome back to the prospect where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . true mind you were discussing. you create the okay, let's go back to l for the engineer, but what it is for every action there is an equal reaction and the reaction gold is loose. rhetoric that we have heard of, particularly over the last few new cycles or rush has decided to a start exercise is a, uh, a new killer drills for the gum duper as a precaution. because of the very provocative language coming out of western capital's irresponsible language. i would say, i think we would all agree, but say there is a reaction and this is an escalation. don't western leaders understand that this is

a reaction to their loose rhetoric? alfred. i know they do not want to understand. i mean, they live in their power alone world, their power and reality and the public. the masses are subject to re lend class brain washing. i mean, and it's not only new york times washington post cnn frank. well down defined it's, i don't even hear it switzerland, you re nonsense in the no, i have to over to the title. and organizations like mine, i'm in the dean, ava international peace research institute. the get rate, we have pulled out a blueprint for peace and ukraine. we have sent it to the our own say to a pinhole in burn. and of course, you know that we in switzerland. i'm also interested in we are going to have uh, in may and do this. um,

so called peace conference of the builder and stuck on lake road south. now they are going to be a lot of blueprints for piece the 10 point plan off. uh, sure, landscape is delusional. absolutely. uh, disconnected, uh, from reality. but, uh, the truck point point uh, plan of the chinese is good. the 10 point blind. all the africans is good. uh, the international progress organization has put up a very good plan. also, both frances had put out a plan, so uh there are ideas out there and my hope is that if enough states participate, obviously russia is not going to participate. that's clear. but if uh, say the presence of china and india and south africa and brazil and mexico etc, might lead the conference to this car,

the 10 point applying of isolated scale. it's totally unrealistic. i start to talk more possibilities of a compromise. well, it is, it's interesting now for that, you mentioned a number of the countries around the world, the energy individual, the pope, in organizations that have a blueprint to start the process of ending this complex here. i'm going to go to appear menu. all right. now, um, but no western leader does that no western lead, no one in nato. does that and putting into nelson. right. hang on, perfect, hang on, hang on, i'm putting, so now you ration, he said russia remains open to dialogue and it's up to the other side to decide how to move forward appearing menu. well, i mean, where is the, the, the piece plan from the biden. people from cameron from sergeant schultz, where is it? they never use that language of, of ending this conflict and maintaining security for all players. they never talk about language. go ahead in brussels. yeah,

so unfortunately for i've seen it in european member states of natal on not through the silver ring anymore and resp or are they your i think they use this feeling more are y e r g 2 up to your us or why are to be 0 attempting system with a run ca, we'd be nate to lunch with an independent voters. and this is like your, the, your pants are competing to be the best out of washington and are trying to, oh, so at the same time to see the vacuum in case of for trunk will be elected because they seem to the united states with the less um, less it'd be present in europe in office, but that's a sick time. very your the photo, the main your part of the car objectives of, of washington. and it's likely they want to find a nice in vis or,

or this is a body of washington in europe and to, to, to found available own leadership weaving, or vis systemic or the west on the dominus, we've out to try to find any, your end of this conflict because we're here, man, you? well i, i don't want to, i don't want to be to, um, um, insulting here. but is there any leadership in europe at all? i mean, you know, you see this background. he is, he's east channeling his inner, the gall, he can't find it. cameron is no churchill. i mean, where is leadership in europe? i mean, they're all replaced. well, you could take the prime minister from finland and put them in italy. it wouldn't. no one would notice. go ahead go. exactly. oh, because or the product you kind of trust. easier afraid? very your low quality to be frank. those seems the departure of the board and for

us on more more you've been seeing president on the front small more lines on the i would say, or under sex on the water, we vote to the independent voice. and or it might even more cool. so does in the, in the experience of the read crises of low but instruction on whether last president with experience in war and, or they use it, they don't understand this new merchant put on war because they come from in the ideal g. carter butler, frances should do it takes the lead, vis your project, but the v e. u is dependent on a tool and west of the maintenance and the the can be done on the stand up to position them serve in this new emergency put out well emerging. we're actually due is losing power on the left side only. uh and hardwood cvt,

close the speaking a, b i the rest of our the wait, we have the polish official them wanting to host the american nucular missiles on their soil. i mean, what country in the world is we don't we want. we want to be a target for in a new killer war i, i just, i can't understand that whatsoever. why would you want to do that? unless you want to just curry favor, you want to, you want it, you're giving a nod to washington. you, where are you? where are your guys in europe to get the french we get the germans. poland will stand with you. i mean, this is insanity red and the russians are not going to react to it. really go ahead and why don't we need to talk? suppose people, instead of the post politics is which are almost obviously by i don't think the if he talked everybody that's close anywhere. sure. sure. of the co, you are very different story about their feelings to what's happening in ukraine. they're, they're still in some sense in the he, you added your but if you look at the end of the line, they're looking at the hungary. if you're looking into carissa, you listen to some of their politicians. these are people that have seen it,

especially the crisis i get outside of the you talking to serve use, you know, there's, there's this whole. ready mythology that serve, you know, somehow attached to, to rush to like it by them don't hold court. it's, it's not there. there's people that are pro and anti rush and serbia as well as increases. but these are countries that see war, they know what it's about, that they're politicians that are no leading, those stations know exactly what happens and they know that it's, it's something to be avoided. go little bit north, the hungry that you just got a politician there, a man running the show that seems out a lot more common sense that when you start from the west. well, alford, it seems to me, with all this loose endangers rhetoric, coming out of western capital's out of nato land here. their primary objective is to keep it going, in lieu of doing something out. they don't know what to do. so what, what's the option? keep it going until the last ukrainian is gone. alfred, it was going to be back when the last 2 great and is gone. because and what do you

do at that particular point? i mean, the sooner or later you have to accept that this failed the same as a us incursions in vietnam, failed. same as that your was incursion in afghanistan failed the why does it very easily just turns the page. nothing ever happened. we forget it. we leave a mess behind, but the europeans, they are in a very difficult position. there are intelligent people liked to meet the people who have uh said, very intelligent things you have in german. a guy falls on children blog and several old are full of patients. but they're not in power. there is a totally disconnect between the elite, between our so called democratically elected leaders, and the people as the masses of the people in spain or friends, or nearly they don't want war. nobody wants more. but their leaders are making

money, their leaders are probably back in the service of washington or wait one day, historians will tell us, or if there were some floors that can explain that to us today would be useful. but uh, we are just postponing uh, the moment of fruits. and i'm very concerned about miscalculations at that time when ukraine has really been defeated. what they're yeah. well, it's interesting, perry, manual i, i, i've often said on this program. you know, you, you might, you often hear the phrase, future historians will explain to us how we got here, but i don't think we really need his story in the future. we're going to need psychologist what was wrong with these decision makers. why did they make the decisions the way they did? they're making decisions against their own invested interest, their own people's interest. and there was security because at the end of the day, for the russians, this is all about security and know you're

a p and leader is talking about security. it's amazing to me. go ahead, parent manuel. yes, it's we remember. let's remember, his fame was book the sleep woke up from christopher cock call. we arrive, oh, the 1st world war is tots. each and each country is a different interest to be before it will be a little kind of war on venue. we came to a festival because we were miscalculations. are a lot of prop park on the, from all sides there with lying in the newspapers, to what people are about to know. well actually the people are, they want to find the right information. we are to not keep sites on internet, yukon, and mobile, or people or folks up or e for us, very read. the more more i still not cheap p textbooks, whichever tools to what people are. and that's why the elections he's going to be already. it'd be good to surprise or, and do also,

or many military expos actually would be lying on tv, on the read situation. because they've been paid to say that, that they don't know what to do. they don't know what to say anymore because what research is not happening and are very, very fine only on gra cvt on a well large. and we're going to say that's under, we're going to end the program on the same. you know that we started it, this is all strategic confusion and we're all going to pay dearly for gentlemen. that's all the time we have the one to take my guess with nice brussels and engineers. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. and remember across the rules, the

the water is a part of the, the, is it a bollywood posted? isn't the deepest view of us. and in the worst part, is it something deeper, more complex might be present. good. let's stop without cases. let's go products a one year that you attempted to exit a month. i thought she sat there for the show and then it will be a job to left for the cause of a dish. uh, international law for the defense, i see the supplement is setup button and not to print and then i thought someone

did you lose? it asked me what times if i said the media. i loved people. there's only 2 reasons . could you say was inclusive if you knew them, very tempting yourself to be present that it was worth your money to work it down. stimulus the industry on is it? what's money profile says really left. so should william farmer shots, monuments who have good gosh, door to door or decision to my name. and what was that man? it was a, what was the problem? is that the best one today? and but you know, so that's what it was that strong to set. i'm showing total suspect pretty sure can was i'm patient did it for, she's kim, those are the best do what i mean there's a, there's a problem, push out the checking. it reminds me that i'm late for very important date, which means it's time to slip down the rabbit hole and into

a world of the russian time the on october the eighteens 2023. the up. do you have cuz i keep was thinking it says strategically important side. now the code itself was carried down by a by turn in the 100 and 14th brigade of the russian armed forces, the unit carried out the operation with no losses. last play it seems to need to talk of the 16 was, can you just put those all of it out? you can put a new get something tied up plus cause me to the source of 16 or that it will stand with us for present. so it's, it is the.