is as a result of israel's genocidal assault on causes included suspension of international humanitarian law, but also free speech across the western world. perversely, being pro palestinian and pro peace is condemned as anti semitic the crossing palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he's a legal and media analyst in berkeley, we have should be, but to what i see is the director of the institute of middle eastern is la mac and strategic studies. and in rome, we crossed to romano roberto. she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. alright. crosstalk rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated. um, theresa, if i go to you 1st thing in berkeley, it seems like astoundingly there. there is a pogroms going on all across american academia. people are triggered, people are fearful. the police are being called in. what in the world is going on

here? i read it and looking at the image is that people are, are protesting against genocide and wanting piece. i mean, i don't think that's such a radical idea to protest about, but that's just me go ahead. it's not a radical idea to protest about this movement has been growing every day as the result of the interference by politicians. and by, i believe in organized movement against pulse time that's been operating for some time, even before the 7th of october. and according to that move 9, you know, people cannot say palestine, they cannot say into plaza, they cannot say from the river to the sea. different states have lunches, flimsier gloss, allowing businesses to fire employees who are caught speaking out on palestine. so

i think this is part of something larger, and the student movement is acting on uh, you know, it is triggered by what is happening to so. so here in berkeley, we had a dean of the law school who had are a student that were in his job, who stood up to speak at a dinner. he invited all the law students to and shouldn't even get to speak before he asked her to leave and said it was his apples. and this was written up in the nation. you know, and, and know we have an account now and on the students are, are very galvanized. the problem i think is that the general public has been reading this media spend for some time that

you know pro tell us time how moss or terrorist therefore protel's steiner chairs and yeah, but i mean if really in a line on it, but this is criminalizing speech, isn't it? i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. i mean, speaking facts, i mean, we can, i don't want to waste time on this program, but we could quote, as really officials about what's going on and guys, it's all part of the public record. ok. i mean, repeating what they have to say is that being criminalized to go ahead while or i always say, remember i told stories, line that history would be a wonderful thing of only it were true. well peter, let's go back through memory lane. we always do this. 1970 kent state, the national guard, the saws, ohio crosby, stills, and nash. in 1968 in columbia university,

they took over the president of the office. a debate or protesting against columbia is involved with military official. okay. the same people, the same people who remember that house in days of smoking dope and protesting the same day vehicle on the same place. we're talking about bringing in the national guard. and i'm saying, can't state, you know what somebody told me that said, no, this is columbia said now and stayed. they've forgotten what i thought was in boys and did my collector memory, peter we, we just wasn't that long ago. and 11 more thing. what people are seeing sometimes these events that have happened to columbia, others have said, this isn't even on campus. yeah. because some of the events. so this is an absolute

dial follicle targeted misinformation, this information distortion product. and i, well, i can't the line or what it is. you know, i'm glad you brought up the 196 these, cuz i remember watching it very young on television. they were against war. that's what we're seeing now as people are against war in genocide. and it's nothing to do with anti semitism whatsoever. let me go to ramona in room. you know, it's really quite a sounding though. i see all of these news reports here. but children in gaza are still being 2 families. entire families are being decimated. i'm. i'm sorry, maybe a few students in america, i'll get, i'll get triggered. but i mean, are we missing the bigger picture here? go ahead ramada, and of course we are. and you know, we are missing the big picture because intentionally, the big picture has to be sidelined. of course,

what is happening in gaza is you know, attendance how you doing work and we'll support dot ease indigo. and that should be punished and people should be held accountable for that. but nobody, a sanctioning doc, nobody's hoarding, is what accountable for, it's clear, war crimes and crimes against humanity. but you know, people who are protesting are now becoming there is a witch hunt against them. and there was a witch hunt in the united states. there was a witch hunt here in europe. and of course, the justification of the anti semitism is used as usual as a, as a smoke screen because no, nobody wants to talk about the crimes, the ministry occupation, the upper side, the racism. and ultimately now the genocide that unfortunately we're seeing a foraging in gaza. so this is used as a smoke skin as most sprint. and it's incredible,

but may do is intellectuals are actually, you know, protesting this. they are saying that this is actually against the safety of, you know, of jewish people. and i think it's true. it varies, time, the road recently an article for the harvard crimson saying that, you know, these mechanistic tactics shouldn't be used at all. but unfortunately they are, and the fees and or strategy and, or is kind of latasha to ease with and sign if people have own with used to cover up their crime. yes. but, you know, if i go back to our guest in berkeley, i mean, this is, we all should not be surprised here when we've been told all of us, you know, we have a younger folks older folks like mine on myself here. but you know, they're, they equating zine isn't with israel with jews. and this is the problem that we have here because they are there. this is a false pairing of these uh, of different topics here. and so if you're a design is and people are saying stop the genocide and zine is in the problem. of

course they're not going to like it, but it has nothing to do with anti semitism. i refuse to let them do that to me in the discourse. go ahead and berkeley there are of course, many jewish students in the movement against genocide. and that is a very difficult situation for those who want to cancel free speech on palestine and prove the on calling for a ceasefire in gaza. and i think that those students at columbia have issued a several important statements clarifying their position and, you know, trying to ask not to be kidnapped into this, this course about. and so i'm it to them which is essentially irrelevant here. yes . so um, but yeah, that's where the mainstream media it has been going. if you read every story the,

the in jack to paragraph or 2 about mpeg semitism and yeah, but also with the media. you, one of the things that media line away, i'm sure you've come across. i did. the passive voice is used all the time. people were killed, people were bombed, buildings were destroyed. where's the predicate, who's doing what to whom? and of course, as we've all pointed out here, no mention occupation. i mean, there's so many words that are for bidding right now. i mean, these people are antithetical to what all of us were brought up in as a free society to speak what you think go headlines or another history. i'm in new york, i'm on the west side and during the, our own b, l. m. uh, george floyd, during the riot and the, the, these very same media fault for say, listen, protesters. unfortunately,

supp protesters uncomfortable. this is one buildings were on fire. they were plywood everywhere. people hide from see it on market. i mentioned their names. this is the way it goes. do you know what fascinates these very same people today as to the protests in columbia? who's buying their tents? they're eating sushi. it's just marginalization of these people as crazy. who are these? oh uh the lead uh be, uh um, uh, the daughter of the congress. some of this what she how, how dare she who are these people reading drums. we did the same thing during occupied wall street. and i asked people, i said, do you remember doing great moments of protests, martin luther king's, i have a dream. i'm sure traffic was backed up. they might have led heard, i'm sure, during an admin pettis bridge and the civil rights moment. i'm sure these these moments now we're looking at decorum and drumbeat and,

and the way they look from people, let me just finish with who are sworn by virtue of their media status to understand and appreciate it so far as the management. they don't understand when it comes to doing this on it or they, they just, they're, they're aparadh checks their proxies for a government. they actually enable and in noble if you will, a, the crack down to free speech. it's on be livable. yeah. but line, or at the same time it is, this is all going on. the congress voted for another down payment of the genocide. i mean, it's really hiding subordinate, the, the, the people that are experiencing genocide are not even part of the discourse. this is extraordinary. and it's a 3rd, at this point, i'm going to jump in, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion of houseman and stay with our to the

the, how about the video. so it's not someone, but i need you to run them, give me a chance to do. we use them for streaming, with the lots of up to just guess what kinds of am documents that initiated what, that's what this looks nice. this reasoning why the, the

most of the use of the news, the columbia, and once i saw something we took the chance portion of the, or the, i think it will have chevy and it shows the fishing unix. but then you put the stopper won't even go in and they put me on a couple of or is it pretty sure what are you doing? you, josh, but then you would just give them a one shot. the beloved or something. so i'm not sure if i needed some, so that's where you know, you have them skip this just

a little bit slow. so i know components. the sensor only is a visual i'm losing in, but i do have to make sure that all of the you have little really so frustrated with as much. it's gonna get to play the show you a different level may assist you more and when you do it on different shifts and which the technology you can throw in, the launch of sponsor, excuse me, just go out. i don't know if it was a go or you, but of course the just going to put in the see a good thing is done with this. i can see it on this list. it's under control. so sort of all the welcome back across software. all things are considered. i'm peter in the mail to remind you were discussing palestine. the

ok, let's go back to our guest in room and i'm gonna quote to benjamin netanyahu. the israeli prime minister. this is what he said was the last new cycle. what's happening in america's colleges, campuses is horrific. anti semitic mobs have taken over leading universities of all people to be quoting and american media. when they, when we look at that, how much, how many journalists that have been killed in gaza and palestinians, and non palestinians and, and it, that's given so much more air time. but there me snip it, and that's why they're getting rid of tick tock, because people actually can see the truth. ok, the main stream media just want the waters down completely, like i said, using passive speech where you don't really understand who's doing what to whom. so, i mean, this is what the western media prefers is to allow out and outside or meddling and american domestic politics go heading room. yes,

mainstream media is trying to serve, you know, the agenda of power as usual. it's their job. absolutely, and you know, they're highlighting things that shouldn't be highlight, highlighted at all at nissan. how at this moment is also worried about the possible arrest warrant and that should have come, you know? so sometimes it go if we want to, to see this, but i think here what we are experiencing goes i have exposed many lies, have exposed many contradictions. what you're seeing here is that, you know, it's even more than a crisis of representation. we are seeing that liberal democracies are, you know, lying so openly, that isn't even difficult to justify at the lies at all at let's think about the fact that 1st of all, it is not a democracy. if i can only speak if i am basically speaking the language of the

system and of the power, it's not the democracy, but you will not even speaking about the right of the minority to speak out. we're speaking about the right of the majority, because every poll in the united states and in europe is actually saying that the majority of people once a heart a ceasefire, garza and once a has to at ease where you were crimes in gaza and but we are see politicians, you know, basically a trying to impose something on the majority of the people. and these, these carry like these should concern everybody. not the only people who are now currently sticking out for college and for posting and right, or are protesting does wonderful students who are protesting and campuses all over toward the united states and over to what it should concern everybody. yeah, and particularly if you look at western universities, these are the most privileged people of that society. okay. you know, let's go back to our guest in berkeley. i've, you know, a lot of people don't really understand that. um, i actually prefer

a culture and i, and, and social movements and in philosophy, not necessarily politics. and what i see happening here is the entire enlightenment project being extinguished and, and in the lighting and project of liberalism that the west exported all around the world. sometimes, and very often using force, they are bad doing it themselves. remarkably, it is the global south, it says, no, no, no, no, we kind of like some of those ideas about freedom of speech an assembly, you know, all, but we kind of liked that. it's hard, it's because of the impaired colonial experience, but we're making our progress. the west is a jet a 2nd away completely. go ahead and berkeley as well. this is the thing people that have been told, and the general public in the united states has a rather different than our student population. and it's rather different than our student population who happens to be tell us the indian or era,

or most one or jewish, who may have inform themselves more on this conflict. so, you know, people will say, well, why can't they attain palestine through peaceful means? have they not tried? have they not used every single apparatus that they can, has there not being a process in the international court of justice? was there not a you when ruling for a ceasefire? and then i'll tell people about the movement to, you know, go to go to the border at the cause of the various movements to overcome the blockade. they haven't even read about it. yeah. they, they don't, they don't know that and on. so i think, you know, the, the action of the students, not just the students, but uh uh, so

a little while ago the floors though, the blocking of the bay bridge here and the golden gate bridge. and this is being met with criminal charges of a and for some to kidnapping that the extent the woods for the car. but what's, what's extraordinary? okay. someone is blocking a bridge. okay. sorry. you're going to be a little late for work, but they're not charging the people that are committed to, jen. it's like, i mean, the, the, the iron need of the whole business extorted, lionel, is it all about money? you know, it's a donors, i mean, look at, we look at these ivy league schools. we have big donor se, if you don't fire this person, you don't rest of the students that were how actually paid money to go there and lived there. is it all about that? is that where it gets to the very top? is that money? does it money talks or yes, and you know, what else walks? what i can't believe are the number of, of a college professor,

a president who you think would be in to drills? because we have a congress person, the least of phonic, who will bring you in and say, what have you done? what have you done to, to of, to, to stop hate. and i would immediately, i wish somebody would say here, here's a list, tell me what should i do here? you want to run the card that mike kemp is here. tell me what words i can say. here's the best part. i'm living, i told you in a fish bowl last week on a saturday when we can't get, we don't even know where congress is. i saw american congress, people waving ukrainian flags singing you, craig, you, craig, not america. at the same time, there was, you mentioned the israel legislation then guarding our surveillance laws. meanwhile, i'm turning to friends of mine, supposedly conservative,

supposedly lubbers of the constitution of liberty sitting back and doing nothing. and i ask these people as a, do you think this all began on october, the 7th? and 11 final word, they ask this one politician. what do you think about the house on the 1000 you situation? he says, released the hostages and all are well. somebody gave him these, these add these tried answers to say this, that doesn't even these politicians are like mine, a birds their, their sac puppets. they're told say this and you will be fine. yeah. but they're cowards. they're all cowards and they're all it being paid. ok. that's their hot, and that's what when it gets to their value system, that is at the very top here. let's go back to room. remember, one of the things that i find really interesting and i think it is something we need to think about for a long time moving forward. is this the ultimate expression of what zine ism is all about? because with this project here, it is an intensely racist,

it's intensely violent and it works with impunity. and what it does is it corrupts everything around it. look at the u. s. congress, look at the british parliament. they've corrupted them. they've corrupted the media, they've corrupted everything. go ahead. it, absolutely, it is. you know, the very, the very essence of design is project was finalized. it's reaching this moment, but now the vanish project also feels correct. and because we have the paradigm shift in toward dynamics, you know, in the words balance. and this is so scary for them, and this was so scary for the empire in a sense. this is why i think the west is so can, on tracking down on these protests because there is a shift in the power dynamics and even in the ethnic composition, these students who are protesting, many of them are, you know, the outcome of what happened of these and i'm a full big environmental to,

to look into us after 911. and now they, they read fight. today i read the banner of one of the students saying the i me to start decide. and now you want us to forget what we would need to study. so there are new priorities, i think, even in academia, and it's going to be so difficult for them this time around a to escape from the paradigm shift that is blue ball. and it's a movement that is, you know, very grassroots movement that he's talking to seek basically their, their basis of you know, of power and their own system. i knew it would take time, but i really can see that there is a way out of this. you know, a racist echo route is that stink zion is and so far and basically avoid it too. who did that accountable for all of its crimes? 12 years, it's sort of back tomorrow. just in berkeley here. you know, something that online or i'm, thankfully it's been joining me on

a weekly basis for half a year talking about this here. does the, the clinton of calling someone anti semitic it? does it have the same sting? is it used to have? because if you say it's so often over and over again, the nothings anti semitic, so i sent the problem is this tactic has gone deep into our society. it's in the department of defense which has $10000.00 employees. if anyone accuse us you of them, i symmetric speech, so i work for them. and as you may know, they have a public affairs office which calls you up to in the, to, as we'd like you to be on this program. here's the points we'd like you to cover. you're allowed to say, oh, respectfully disagree. i'm going to talk about apps. and then as soon as you finish, they call up your boss. so she was, hands has submitted, she was supporting terrorist and then okay,

the state department very much the same. so it isn't. and it isn't just the overt calls for, let's say cease fire. and so, i mean, as i hope that people can see how, how organized this is and that it will take organization to, to break. and there is our, our speaker in rome alluded to this. i mean, shamika recognize the state of palestine just recently and joins the lives of many countries around the world who recognized palestine. but united states does sense. right. and um i, i, i agree with her i, so i've been rapidly running out of time here. just wanted to make a closing comments here. amanda and i were speaking with for the show that there were people saying that, you know,

this really is resembles the 1930s in europe. yeah. does authoritarianism is on the march? that's the comparison. you need to make. and so all the time we have, i want to take my guess in new york, berkeley and in rome. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our d. c. a next time and remember prospect goals the the russian states never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community. best of all, send, send up the same assistance, must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will bend in the european union,

the kremlin machine, the state on the russians today, and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. tv services, for what question did you say a request for check the on march the 22nd 1943. during the great pantry with a full the shirts and munch uh fatality, and 181 down the better receiving village of causing the issue. but the person, if i did the you wish to be loaded in the fitness center. yes. so this one, most of the rooms to pony it to you. 149 people died including 75 children of age was practically wiped off the face of the long new

blue loves the live arching could of charlotte was noisy. and will you put it as follows? oh, shoot was hot really. i really usually its own you feeling, you know. so the infamous battalion responsible for the atrocity included over $100.00 ukrainian national is from west to new right? from the picture. all right, and so i'm see what you guys get for the new e phone. that's a lot of those to you guys pursuing your up. assume um with them you as customers to meet with the de classify criminal cases from the central archive of the k g b, a better rules shed light on the atrocity and on so numerous questions that have remained an onset for many years. watch on it. see the,

i think it will have chevy and it shows the patient unix, but then you put the well i guess the couple are you appreciate what are you doing? you josh, but then you would just give them a long shot. the love of selling, so that should bring it to some. so that's where, you know, give them step. is just the fluid was the components. the concept only has a vigil. i'm losing and i get up to him if he's available. combine. yeah, i'm literally so frustrated with as much. it's gonna get the show you a different level may assist you. mind when you do it. i'm good insurance and which the technology you can pull it up with a legit sponsor suspicious go out. i don't know if it was a go or you don't wish to just go in and put in.