7th of october, a john list, all media worker is being killed every 2 days in the gaza genocide alone. and israel is even kidding poets. charles lost as an award winning foreign correspondents. these common conflict in palestine, lebanon, syria, iraq, to somalia, and every trainer in western europe is they just spoken soldiers don't go mad about poets and he joins me now from florence initially. jobs good to see you again. um, obviously this being so much kidding in gaza. just uh, this week, well i guess uh, initially and then west and you are a bit talking about retaliation against iran. i'm a poet in guys, a refund. that area was killed in december of just before we go into the events of this week and will go 3 arguably i tell me about. so just go, go mad, reflect wasn't a soldier, but in world war one soldier as well. but many soldiers were probably, it was a very well educated generation, particularly my main office class. they were raised on sheets cakes,

and shelley and other famous british power, shakespeare. a milson quote to metal legs, some particularly product like rubber grays, or stickers assume or wilford all or all of them were officers and british army in the war. and all of them suffered something called shell shot, which we now call post traumatic stress disorder. my book is really about the fact that the war had on those men who were treated in a particular mental hospital called craig lockhart, or austin for officers where seek for existing met wilford. oh, and together they improve each other's poetry and also help each other to mental recovery is an exhaustive book about that. what we now cool b s. d. but do you think wilfred owens assume they're being read? why you say the british ambassador to the un let alone linda told me, is greenfield of the u. s. when they refused to veto that?

sorry, they've veto resolution. cease fire resolutions at the un security council because i don't know what you've been thinking as you've been promoting the book, perhaps, as well as we hear the what a 100000 perhaps killed or wounded? mostly women and children, not soldiers in the gaza strip. i don't know what different mass reading these days, certainly in the past they want to read so. so now live in an graves, the soonest potentially relevant here. because he was urging a diplomatic resolution of the 1st floor more much as people are urging on an end to the solar and goes through negotiations and diplomacy rather than continue blushes. he wrote a protest about the war and he felt that the british war aims for distributors that they were really fighting for imperial gain to france was fighting to take parts of

germany that, um, did you want me to talk to the warranty 70 and that and then they, they were not really defending freedom that they were actually killing young man like systems, entire generation in order to achieve their internal mystic paint. it would be worth reading that protest today, i think because that was wise to assume was sent to mental. what cause rather than court martial war on trial suit was a very prominent power in a very prominent person from a very distinguished background of the central medical. not much of the soviet union used to send people to mental hospitals if they were just, it was a decent or an effect of political president. yeah, i mean, the psychiatric cases redlands of the us, i saw, you know, the, one of the 1st things done in ukraine after the 24 team go was they banned russian poetry. they took down the, i think more than 30 statues of pushing. what was it like and listed you,

or what was your view of how, regardless of your view and what was happening. as regards the conflict in your why it was that nato power has back to, i mean renaming a push can park a obviously just a epsky was payments for the ban russian soprano and electro banga band and the us saving the match conduct is valery, go you have this relationship between ok so important. so frightening to the nato nations that they need to band poetry and po it's, it's you sound like it's not unusual in war for people to overreact and to take out against the culture of what is really a political issue in the united states during the 1st floor war, german restaurants were attacked german for lynched. the german language was effectively bad. united states used to have thousands of german newspapers which were shut down or, or how to convert to english. german was after english. the 2nd most spoken

language in the country. this is not on huge rule in more time for people to forget that despite your differences of culture, united states, as a credit card hospital, for example, they never stopped playing german composers and the sunday saturday concerts because they felt that it was right to spectrum. and culture, even though they were fighting, and tillman, and except tchaikovsky, i understand the contents of his have been banned in nato countries. and you know, ts eliot is a being ready and most go no, no problem. i mean, do you think the internet, global, south, bunch of whom supports a new world order, arguably, and believes there is world war 3 going on, whether it be grain, whether it be gaza, that the war has already begun, and they're allowing poetry and not to continue but it's not happening in nato

nations. you think we'll do a 3 hasn't begun. you know, i don't believe will work for you. is the kind of thing because it had the gun. we don't be dead there be nuclear weapons and destroying the entire planet. no, i don't really. what was the reason? i think that there are differences. russia as in the ukraine, people don't like that. they don't like it just as we do just just as people do people in wisdom your opinion, i'd rather be honest in the the, the, the issue is not to do team and eyes the other just because you have a conflict with and then and that to me it should be universal. it's not right. that kosky should be banned or that a whole should have been banned or any, any of the german language newspapers should have been banned for the 1st floor or just that's just not right for me. my bleeding freedom speech i believed and respecting the cultures of others, but we can still have opinions about the justice or injustice of invading or the

con is i'm would say that, that cultural uh accompany meant as it were, is as one with the way i circled mainstream media where you are in the italy, in western europe, in the united states is never being so bad when it comes to the genocide in guys, or what have you felt about the reporting of when i, when i remember that there was, there was an interesting piece of the understand the intercept, which is a very good website about a memo of the new york times, instructing people not to use the word mastic for when it's a report, but they're not allowed to use a word each other lives there. there's a memo tool, employees at the new york times, they don't use the word genocide, occupied territory or even pallets. yes. and obviously that's just not you can't, you can't tell the reporters what to what out of how to frame their record. i think

the, you know, you know, times is over sensitive to, to this issue they've done some, some of the recording has been as much of it has been this. it varies from florida to reporter and day to day. but overall is the editorial policy is to favor one side or the other than that. that's similar to all. you have to be fair and objective. and actually both sides the same for the, for the most part, they're not doing a mattress box, many just papers. and bats, and some journalists and i, and you know, this one was either charlie or the b. c. yeah, i do apologize for his reporting to the bbc jeremy bowen. some years ago, he's been here for 40 years in 1st grade in fair just just as least you said, just as paul adams has previously been very good tracing work at the guardian of the observer also very good. i died the thing to differ about some of those reports is but you know, you're a fan of chomsky you uh and i the, i'm a friend of no. yeah,

i mean it will be on this show. and the whole point of the jump ski model is you don't have to send memos from management to john list because as a kind of censorship, by default that goes on, that's the trouble model. what would you make of the fact that so explicit we come on? does it what a journalist have you ever seen? anything like that? i'm going in places right. what i never received. i see that. no, i mean it's, it's unusual and maybe you know, times of just going overboard because they've probably had a lot of complaints about some of the reporting, which wasn't pro, is really and yet if you see the demonstrations in the united states, the poor poll numbers and important voting books as of november, the election? i don't think we've ever seen such profile as 9 movements in the united states. what do you, what do you make of the fact of what was once considered anti semitic age as a board, even a 2 state solution that the ones that solution has got so much traction in the

united states, which is traditionally mean is a pro justice in the middle east, as probably the balls have for many years shown that the not in public has favored an independent artist in each state. i mean, consistently for years, but the, the, that doesn't mean it would be a filter through the congress or to the white house. the, the alex is, is as long favored a solution solution, preferably a 2 state solution to end this function with bloodshot. and now it's so greedy, so, so on do some over 30000 people, then women and children killed and, and probably 3 or 4 times that number, severely wounded. and you see this can't go on and somebody is dr. stopped, you know, responsible material power overall power would have stepped in a long time ago. just saying this is, this is enough, enough software has been calls, it's going to be could it could lead to

a regional conflict, a serious regional conflict in which american interest would be severely threatening. and it's time to put a stop to the public knows. but the leadership isn't, isn't following over. i mean, you being critical of it like a matter of solar diversity as regards to a power stand restroom, because uh, you know, in the past few months really is it the chinese brokerage, the deal between saudi arabia in iran. how important is that going to be in the coming week? perhaps if one believes the, uh, somebody, it's a hysterical headlines in the other mainstream, easier. so golden western europe that there has to be retaliation from is relatively rare to kind of re retaliation for the range in response to the bombing of their consumers in damascus. i think i think it's worth comparing the error reaction to the october 1973 war when egypt and syria went to war

with israel in order to regain the territories that they had lost in 1967. and that time, saudi arabia led the way to have an error oil boycott on the west disabilities. and that helped to bring an end to that word for it fairly quick and, and to give somebody talks, it show you at a bad time to go to boston state this time where the cubic is much worse and, and the palestinians suffering much, much worse. the architects have not enacted an oil embargo on any one. they haven't done anything except pay a bit of lip service to the college duty and calls in order to placate their own populations, who are outraged by what's happening. and they've done basically nothing. they haven't ever experienced that have just about the issues with this. you haven't given them separately. is that the reaction that i'll send you? i just cannot rely on their products anyway? it's a bit like we used to say about the towards a towards have no friends,

but the amount of housing is only about josh, i'll stop you. the more from the award winning foreign correspondent and author of soldiers don't go mad after this break. the or what is part of the is it that the employee would post good isn't the deepest view of us and that in the word part is it something deeper, more complex might be present? let's stop without please. is that scope out of the hands of the new jews because as then choose for many centuries, the way that they made best. acute did one's bullshit games oppressed and nobody

can know. it seems that the bodies in young smoke you by the same the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the world winning foreign correspondent and older a soldiers don't go mad. charles, last jobs we were talking about the response in this region in west asia to the terrible events and in gaza. i suppose both of us would love it if i could talk to you right now. and then other books that'd be julie and assigns, giving is a diagnosis of a geo politics at the moment, as russia, china breaks get closer and yet in nato countries, the talk is continually of continuing war in europe. no negotiations. and there are

no negotiations on the table as such as regards gaza. do you think us on just becoming more more emblematic is case of a press, freedom and secrecy. to do this on just as a victim of those who want to conceal crime war crush. and he is being punished for having made available documents that were released to him by whistle blowers from within the establishment that pro with united states in particular and committed work. so he's, he's being punished for that and he not only being punished for that, but also being used as an example to others so that they don't do the same thing. if julia were free now and when he leaves for up and running, we would know a lot more about us policy on garza. we would know a lot more about what these rates are planning dollars that we would know much more

about plans for the united states to deal with the wrong. um, but julian isn't cable to function he's. he's locked up for 23 hours a day and a cell allowed out one hour at a can. it can find enclosed space for extra size barely have it has enough to eat a bunch of don't wash maximum security prison just $2.00 a day for food. he's. he's suffering a great deal. he does have, he still doesn't know his ultimately he will be sent to the united states to spend the rest of his life. and even worse, confinement in american maximum security prison and his life, his life is hell and we're, we're actually homeless. the public are suffering, lack of knowledge because he's not there because when he leaks isn't functioning, because we're not able to find out many of the state secrets that we use to have access to say about one. you mentioned all these journalist. i don't hear them talking about designs. you went to visit him. i understand. i haven't seen him

since our interviews. people can watch them on a rumble channel from inside the ecuadorian embassy during political asylum. what was it like for you personally uh, to see him in that states. uh, i mean, i think the last time i saw you, we were maybe he was free of giving press conferences at the front 9 club which even that kind of turned against him. people, i remember telling me he's a sort of traitor, he's not really a journalist, he's a, i'm not sure what they told him, a russia and ask that who knows what a smidge and with so many, many, many journalists, it turn pad, turned against junior, including editors, of newspapers and i was the other slight patrick cockburn, late john killenger stood by and have come to the surface and their defense of him . and that is right above the there's division in,

in the drawing was the community on. however, now that it's so close to his expeditions, potential expedition or major newspapers not states of the reporters without borders and other other journalistic organization, the national union journalist in britain has come to his dispatch and say, you should not be punished. and what was it like for you going there, the backs of security prison in london in december? well, i have seen, i hadn't seen him since he'd been put in. don't wash for 5 years previously. and i, as he doesn't look the same, used to simply pay, he hasn't seen the stone indeed has any sunlight at all. and yes, he's lost weight because he doesn't have enough age. he's week. um, what is it? he's alert, his mind is still functioning. he's a sharp as ever he's aware of what's going on in the world. and he, he still is engaging and i'm funny because he always walks are richard and very

highly is one of the bravest man. i have never been in my life, and he still is that rage met the united states, of course, gave an assurance of this week. they won't kill him. why you suing the head of the c i a has regardless, i'm not, i'm not doing the headings. you, i'm assuming the former, not me with the 22 lawyers and one other journalist and i are joining me. suing the former head of the c. i might on page 4 in 2017 and 18. he's dropping on our conversations with jordan, taking our cellphones and taking all the information or cell phones and 45 were awesome, which because we are american citizens. and because lawyer client conversations are pretty much oh, we are under the 4th amendment, united states showing my company and the see i of that time. and yet of course the

us making this assurance. they don't want to kill him when bumpo clearly said he wanted to get them and every time to as we know, said drone bottom, him understand a friend of us mile clooney was actually on the weekly leaks team bizarrely. i don't think she defends julia massage now. in these bizarre coal proceedings going through london, what did you think of these assurances from the, by the ministration that they wouldn't kill julian or somebody to be the 1st one who was proposing an extra traditional assassination? not, not that he should be execute, which is a traditional fascination. some are also truly, we have a a new condition which is due the british court has said they will not be true and cannot be assigned noted states if eastern to face and jessica, because i to legal and interest and the rest of your so the us has had to give that a shot. they have not met only assurances at the courthouse because also asked that

he received the same protections on the 1st and then the 3rd american citizen received. and the us, rather than give that short is said that that would be up to the us quotes. so it is this point, the base point in a very difficult position. i think they want to extradite him in order to please nice days. but the us is, has not met the conditions of the course yet. so i think you is appeal will probably go through and it may, it may turn out that he won't be here. that's not extradited. that's what role. because i understand they call and give the 1st amendment rights because of the guantanamo georgia can, which is still in operation. and the british quotes, though, are they really in a difficult position. they have explicit a documentation explaining of assassination attempts were planning against a junior size, but we need more time. okay, so there's nothing to the 1st event for today that's, that's something else. i understand the law as the for those people tried to get

1st amendment rights for captives that um the how i might, i mean, i mean clearly, i mean i'm, what's your not doing? would you give the issue or not? right. they couldn't give any can any. in any case, the court is in a difficult position in britain. if it wants to please the united states, which the british directly tried to do, but also conform commercial in british law right now does not receive the assurances disaster. and so they may not be able to expedite that name or allow further is further appealed to go ahead. this, of course, after the judge in the british court said, all the other stuff about the like, interest, all the other stuff about, about the assassination attempt allegations. you see global, you might want to tell us and remind us about that already relevant to the expedition request. overly torture claims by you and robert of deals, mailed services being on this row. what did you think of the fact goal of that is

judge irrelevant? well, that's why i'm saying they're trying to please united states, you know, and you have the honestly just making it easy for them because they haven't given whole insurance is that the court has asked for. and what did you make of the fact that we can't think so as didn't apply for bail, but they didn't initially but to the court. the court pages the very beginning when, when brad, remember you had to search 50 weeks for a week of his original bail job. and then after that they wanted him to be released home. they over because the jump, the 1st time the court wouldn't cracked. so i mean, can you see that in the global set of people are looking at this and thinking, why would you expect court systems in britain which has been a party to, to georgia? i think only this week, the case on abu ghraib has being talked about and policies that needs to the invasion of iraq. the united states, which has of georgia, can be in guantanamo where we know of black sites and so on. and the idea that they

don't kill people who uh, once you exercise 1st amendment rights is on surprising. well, this part, this region, poncas quotes mean united states. so they bind on wordpress. freedom based on the united states is dedicated to press free a market accident and at the same time he's, he's making sure we're doing an assault and just kept in imagine security prison in britain waiting extradition to a maximum security prison united states. and this is great and we all know it normally is global. so people, united states and britain and probably even in dubai are aware of and i haven't seen you on. so go mainstream media in nato countries commenting that much about the genocide. i presume that is not for because you don't want to talk about it will be to the guests that these sorts of television programs have. um,

it doesn't seem to be getting through the circle taskbar is riley propaganda. what however, israel failing and getting their message across, as they normally have done over the decades there's folks that are still getting their message out. i don't know people leave because their message is contradicted by what people are seeing happening on the ground for the mirror. although they won't admit for him directly to his relays, any objections won't allow for and drugs in 2004 there many palestinian jewels most valuable that killed many palestinians genres too. are their recording on video and audio righty about what's happening every day. it's on demand so that the propaganda just isn't no propagandist and we're going to be good enough to conceal these facts. we know the generational impact of say, cyber and should dealer of the 2nd and divide it and so on. i suppose going back to your book, talking about the horrors of the 1st world war,

as expressed by the sultan classes in britain. how long would it take for this region to recover the people of palestine from what's been happening these past 6 months? this is not only what's been happening these past 6 months is what it's going to happen in the next 6 months. i mean there, there is a risk of a major conflict between israel and to run the risk of further conflagration in dollars. i guess the idea goes into rafa and there's a risk of the exit as of a 1000000 or more palestinians until the sign right. does or, or there's a risk of war between israel and his ball in revenue, which would mean, what is the total destruction of leather and destruction? many is really cities. and that was a what we've seen so far has nothing to what we might see in the coming months. it's. it's a terrifying prospect. i think it's, it's,

it's worth mentioning that easily, obama diplomatic mission, in another country, when i've kind of bombed american diplomatic missions and doris, mom and i wrote with us on the hell out against media, we have to get in here and fight. and there's nothing about this is there's a violation. the convention is it is a violation of international law. and it's like, it didn't happen in like the, you're only a missile response was just, you know, some crazy thing at the lowest child's boss. thank you. and that's it for the show . i'll continue condolences to the survivors or of you as you gay, you nation. i'm kidding. in palestine, syria, human loving and iran and iraq will be back with the brand new episode on monday with the redacted co host natalie morris. and you'll then keep in touch my role as social media results centers in your country and had to add channel going underground cl number. they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground see monday. the

listing is the new choose good as been, choose for many centuries, the way that they may best acute it once bullshit, games oppressed, and nobody can know it seems that the bodies on smoking, by the same, the, [000:00:00;00] the

known in vietnam as the american war. the vietnam war lost its almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. not any time between now and then you don't see it now. what did go on empty? hundreds of thousands of american troops was sent to the country to bank the south vietnamese on me. and the american soldiers, miller did resist, as most of the slaves burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. and even lee lead up day by all right. did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive? yeah, yeah, yeah,

that's that waste too late, but yeah, the, the west is reportedly fails to make a new deal with these geron increase a withdrawal troops from the west african country, which is turning to other nations like russia. it's about 5 terrorism, this, the whole region close group and done the training and to strike that killed the russian world, correspondence court and get the evidence of kids terrorists. nature. also this on the needs to tell us the music killed during it today is waiting rate and they all keep tied westbank. but tom submitted escalating specimens. construction in the area also speaks to a palestinian who has received an eviction notice from the b. it's way the