on run over there alleged ties to him, us and that was just the beginning of a very slippery slope. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 which of the world is focused on the war in gaza and on the atrocities that are taking place there? the united nation said in mid march that more children had been killed in guys in the 1st 4 months of the conflict, then had been killed in all other conflicts around the world. in the last 4 years combined, the south african government has taken action by assuming israel in the international court of justice and the united nations general assembly has been nearly unanimous . with the obvious exceptions of the united states and israel. that the fighting must stop immediately and that human rights must be respected. those demands, however, have fallen on deaf ears. and while the israeli military continues to pound cities

and villages all over guys, it is also arresting. and in some cases, killing united nations employees inc, unwrapped employees were arrested in january and another $22.00 were arrested in february and charged with quote, participating in the october 7th massacre facilitating the taking of hostages, looting and stealing from his really communities and more on quote as it turned out, several independent investigations found that none of that was true and the union has demanded the release of its employees. those releases have not yet taken place to. but finally, the international media are not just taking is really government's words at face value. even before hostilities began the associated press reported, quote, a confidential is really does ca, detailing alleged links between palestinian human rights groups and an internationally designated terrorist organization contains little concrete evidence

and failed to convince european countries to stop funding the groups unquote. britain, this channel for news said this is really has provided no evidence in its charges against unreal personnel and noted norwegian physician mads gilbert asked for a tour cli, why is real not being investigated for the killing of more than 100 on route employees in gaza? we're going to discuss this with christopher goodness. he's a former spokesman for unreal. chris, thank you so much for being with us. it is a real pleasure to join. you don't. thank you very, very much indeed for having to be on your show. for those of our viewers who don't really know what henri does, can you give us an overview on raw, has been around since 1949 is most of its work in gaza, or is it also active in the west bank or in palestinian refugee camps in jordan or elsewhere. well, well, the other one has been in the news because of its like a garza recent lease of the some of october. it actually works in gauze of the west

bank, but also jordan, syria and lebanon. wanted as you write and say to them it came into existence, was voted into existence by the general assembly. in december 1949 became operational on the ground, inmate 1950. now, on this creation was the results to the 1948 war and at least with so 750000 palestinians, driven from their homes or reflect the homes into those. and then there was nothing on those into the ne, went into syria. those of the east went into jordan, and both elsewhere went into casa and the west bank. now, as its thing suggests, the united nations relief and works agencies the original mandate under was about to different relief. because there was suddenly nearly a 1000000 refugees who needed food of both the medicine, and they needed a roof over that head. and that's what it is. the months and years actually provided. and also provided looks

a temporary jobs because these refugees needed to work. they needed to sustain themselves and their families in some way, but then it became clear that the flexing states of as well would not abide by its obligations under resolution $19.00 full, and allow the refugees, the right to protect, which is a bigotry on the international role and it's policy universal, universal just a declaration. nonetheless, that's what as well decided and so suddenly of which was doing the as time free release began to move into something a bit more providence. so what's the refugee's need? that is cation the shows in the beach of the rest of these needed education. so i'm just starting to provide education that needed health, so on this doctor to provide primary health care. but the more vulnerable in these societies needs relief and work. so food assistance, assistance full, those are particularly ill, all sorts of different social network, social security programs. they've got to grow in the early days comp today. and

those 3 broad areas, education, health, relief and social services. those are the main cool programs of unrest. but because i'm at least the so unstable because what happens what's happening in gaza, but the other was in the middle east, west palestinians have found themselves cool. so unless somebody has to carry on with its main services education, hopefully from social services taking care of. but then to the town to dealing with the motions is the crop of gaza is a typical example of that and that's basically what, how does it does emergency work with school? and it does, it's cool services as a matter of course, and it's done that. as i said, jordan siri left on the west bank and gaza since 1950. or and what is it that and right has been doing and guys all these years? is it food, water, medication delivery? is it nation building? and what does i'm gonna do that has these relays so angry?

well, that's a very good question. it's a very complicated question. it's well that should be best put to this lady wrote to me. however, i will attempt to answer those separately. she's here, i'm subbing somebody's mistakenly believe that henri uh is pushing the rights of with the under uh is encouraging the refugees to go back to the homes and as well because that is not true. the refugees have 3 choices, which with, which is the will they have a have either late for inspiration. so it's gretchen way off the country. we set them up so kind of drove us. we'll give them a visa and a great, so it kind of go to us or wherever an older, right. otherwise, baton is most of the which on the necessarily pushes because in any case it's up to the refugees. one of the whole points of these refugee choices is that they are freely made. and so it's really not requested. i'm telling anyone what to do, and under indeed doesn't tell anyone what to do a soft refugee, but it's regular mistakenly please. somebody in the fall right administration is well believe that if you get rid of us, then magically you get rid of the refugees,

which of course is not true if you got rid of on russ the speed would remain human beings with in a level rights including the right, so the city's house it's, it's, it's really not the case that, you know, get rid of under a refugee's. the other thing, i mean, you mentioned henri services, education, health, a nation building a road certainly today contributes to peace and prosperity and a sense of calm. and of course that's is that environment. these are things that you all conducive to a political sacramento peace process. there i say it to 2 state solution or whatever anyone envisages piece by eventually looked like. did i think there was somebody as well, who are implacably opposed to any kind of state for the palace stadiums, nothing unless they sometimes see a spot in the foot in that regard. and the other thing is we've seen that the international court of justice, which is the highest cold on the kind of which is set up to adjudicate disputes

between states. um, you know, the cold on the 26th of january found that. busy was a plausible case of genocide that these. busy are these are waging a genocide, a war against the power cities because i'm or has stood up and objected to that. and i think that's another reason why many is waves of service x and so angry about i'm right. it's a great shape because because under is that desperately trying to mitigate the impact of this terrible conflict to bring food and medicine and was the to the, you know, 1700000 people who been displaced by the fights and gaza. this is really a rest of so many on run employees was of course, international news. these really is accuse them of participating in a major terrorist attack. the charges were very serious, but they didn't stand up to scrutiny. and after more than 50 countries responded to the allegations by initially cutting funding for unreal. most of those countries

have started up funding again. tell us about these really accusations, and even more importantly, tell us the truth about these employees. who are they, in what work are they doing? well for legal reasons, i don't want to say the names because this is also true to see. i think that when we this terrible episode is over, i think those staff members who falsely accused might well take legal action. so i don't to get you or myself into any trouble. but essentially the is rabies, called a meeting with the commission general. but with the dental is such as a problem. okay, tons of the chief executive, if you like me to access and they have a list of 12 staff members who they alleged they claimed had taken part in the attack on the 7th of october. they didn't produce any evidence and as you say, and 16 data is then pilots and default on the the suspended funding. so under

the commission, general vendor had separated a dismiss these workers because he wanted to take robust action in order to protect the interests of agency. but the americans, canadians, the swedes. um european union, others, as i say pallet, the bread. so say product can be funded, but to this day nobody's produced any evidence against these individuals, as indeed the united nations has instructed to as old it mandates it to investigations. wallace is you investigation independence, developer a but a you investigation. there's also an investigation by form, a french foreign ministry, colona. and she is looking at these allegations, also the office of into the labor side, which is the un bulky as investigating these applications has completed into

written report is found no evidence for the applications as well as may, i don't dislike the fact. the european union has received this funding to the june of 82000000 euros to the suite civil service in funding. and the canadians have the danes have adults. so it was really a piece of fake news with spectacular impact because it led to the, the funding on the road to the sheet of $450000000.00. and it led to what is one of the greatest ex, essential crises if you like. in the history of the what do you think is really goal here was was it to push the un completely out of guys? was it to dry up whatever little funding the palestinians had? was it perhaps a public relations move? if these really is new, the allegations were on true,

then why go ahead with making them in the 1st place? was it just for the short term victory? so that should be interesting and very complicated question that i'm not sure because i have house privileged access to his rating intelligence or political information with sources. but i, i would say that festivals in new york times splash these allegations across the front pages without actually checking. so these ladies had in the new york times, a willing accomplice if you like to display news. i think that added to the sense of the galaxy and guilt which was wrong as it turns out. so what this, what it's trying to achieve, i think in the short term they were trying to smear on rather than try to discredit tundra, i think, which hasn't was because the allegations of now i'm proven say try, i think in this the median sunday, which finds the funds, right, and i think that to start with

a managed to do that. but i think as you see the news management, the fate means is unraveled. and those are starting to come back a little bit rather embarrassed. and with that goal, my face is we saving lives, and i like the positive is to dispatch to and we haven't got the yet. but i think that we've heard these today that these various blogs, the list of denver of on the sleep doesn't really from going into gone. so i think that's the kind of thing increasingly we get to see with these where it is attempting to prevent our working by limiting visas and permissions. and all these things, which of course is a violation of the new mechanism for actually of goods into gaza. and it's also violation of the provisional measures ordered by the i c, j, the international court of justice on the 26th of january. when they said that no member state should take any action to limit humanitarian access in the gaza. so

that we have it. i think there was 3 main issues these way. it is a pushing run mister smith on russ and to slush the names. the 2nd is to the fund. i'm right. i think that's on roughly and very last mediates to dismantle and right . and clearly that isn't international consensus is the general assembly or 195 nations of the us who give them the in span based on any bi jeb assembly can make any changes to honor as magic one single that the state like you. so congress decides on ruby of what these weigh, these i think are trying to do is use bureaucratic means to limit the work of under, but that certainly isn't the same as dispatching on the we're speaking with christopher goodness, the former spokesman for the united nations relief and works agency or unreal. stay right here. we have a lot more then when we come back we're going to talk with christopher about next steps and the situation in gaza and the rest of dozens of and run plays by is really authorities state to

the. 2 2 the other way, not to me. right. so c condo border brother printer was, are up at one of the positions. so just so basically, of course with me, the last thing was these really was can, when we used to live in action, we have support for someone who was this, we, which i knew people to the,

the, the russian states never as one of the most sense the best english i'll send send up the in the 6595 must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the rush of funding and split our t. suppose next, even our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services even closer to the

. 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers and john kerry onto were speaking with former united nations relief and works agencies spokesman, christopher goodness about the is really a rest of dozens of on run employees. thanks again for being with us, chris. pleasure. i happen to have a close friend who is one of the most important constitutional scholars in america . he also happens to be an internationally recognized expert on genocide. genocide has a very specific legal definition. and he says that what is happening in guys a meets that definition is i'm not in any way empowered to try to alleviate the suffering of those affected in this genocide. do they have any international authority in war zones? they do have a mandate to leave the impact to the stand assignable campaign. and since the 7th

of august, that's pretty much what it has been doing in guns. so you have to remember the unrest has well over the 200 around 15200 facilities which these schools and so distribution centers in warehouse is old across the gulf stream on when serious bombardments with talking you know, 2000 pounds is where the buttons being dropped in residential neighborhoods when all that stuff, people fled to under a facilities to under compounds because there was a blue un flag fluttering above and they thought that would give them some kind of protection. so they let the homes where they felt very comfortable and they came to and of course when they arrived on the time it's best to distribute food and we'll set to give mattresses to provide shelter for people. but of course, these schools that you know, they're meant to be used by the 1000 maximum kids in the day time. so there was no

toilet facilities fix on, hopefully wants to sit and see if there was maybe 30000 people, so upholding the squalid living conditions. so i'm right. yes, absolutely does. how the mandates to alleviate the impacts of the war and indeed against all because you know, 168, almost all have actually been killed. and in the face both, what do you and it's described as an old school that it's unprecedented. it's about bankruptcy in that context, henri is doing its best to provide services mentioned suitable to, to those who are fleeing and saving restitution comforts. let's get into some of the specifics here. the harsh treatment of palestinian detainees in israel is well documented. torture is common place i was speaking with an is really human rights attorney just last week and told me that one of his clients who is in is really prison,

said that he envies his compatriots and guys because they're dead. he said that living in his really prison is worse than death. what are your former colleagues going through in these prisons? well, interestingly, a couple of weeks ago and wrote certainly unprecedented step of publishing a report which was based on hundreds of tests. and it is by people coming back into the office. so people being rounded up by these very on the and taking away and then when the interrogations a little to pay to those tensions over. some of them, at least with delivered back to one of the crossings. into gaza and it was working, you know, on, on this crossing had stuff this starts to, to people. is he was you do when, you know, you're working with a check point and people are coming back. and, well, image was a pack of illegal and in human and degrading treatments. in some cases torch. in some cases, sexual crimes,

sleep deprivation being false to 6 hours in exhausted in positions in one case or more than one case. and took say he has a met, a hot metro rolled in searches into the read some of the elements and such a terrible internal injuries. and because of that, women describe being sexually harassed. that was sleep deprivation. old people with alzheimer's children with special needs, all sorts of mental issues, was subjected to the most appalling, upholding treatment of this either this was, this is in a report the under compiled which found its way into the media. but i sincerely hoped. and i believe that it will go to the i c, j, the international criminal court. the licensee is also investigating the ill

treatment of palestinian detainees. so yes, i mean, a poorly old audited, frankly. was cro break? well, good. so but he knew there was of a 100 and. busy $7500.00 posted in prisons and probably more is ready. prisons and the information on the golf from people that stays with touching, simply cooperates in the city and pulling and degrading treatment. that's the gang fights since a star screw up. the patient in 1967 we've seen is really government accusations against b on right. employees have they actually been charged with any crimes? are they able to see attorneys is the un involved in trying to get them out? and what can you tell us about under employees who have been killed by these, or at least well as far as the 12, the gets to the allegations with levels of concerned. 3 of them are either missing all day. and i didn't know and i did it and it is the. busy about all of the others

. so to the best of my knowledge, they've not been shot. but what would you charge them? because it's what was produced, no evidence. you know, if your employer decided that they wanted to charge you something that have to reduce the evidence and that's not been done. so as far as i'm aware of these people don't even see that the total is low is because that's what we're getting on . so how would that be possible? so, um yeah, i mean interestingly, um the adult in charge of that because this new evidence to johnston with all the question you mentioned about on the staff members, i mean they have been killed like everyone else has been killed. you know, 2000 pounds being dropped on the house. i've got a colleague in garza, his eldest son, who was just about to qualify as a dentist, was killed because he's way just dropped a huge ball on the neighbor's house. the son was very close to where this boom actually fell and so he was killed. and it's very sad because as he was dying,

he spoke to his parents on his mobile phone. i mean, it's tragic. and his body was on with possible because these ladies are not allowing the fuel into the gas, the service you need to, you know, for the trucks in the vehicles, to track a whole new level off. so not say the stuff that moves under being killed like everybody else has some, 2000 pounds, some being shot by snipers, some dying of you know, disease rules, home by bound nutrition in the way that, that you know, so many of the site and, you know, in the same way that anyone else in gloss is dying in the figure. in the latest, i'm a sit rep you on the updates i saw was a 168 on the staff members have been killed by these ladies. what's the long term effective arresting, united nations employees? does this action hurt the is really, is more than it hurts the united nations, or does this hamper unreliability to do its job in places other than gaza? well, certainly it's done a huge amount of reputational damage to the is waiting on me. remember who would

that rock when he was foreign minister famously said to these, where the army was the most moral army in the world. and he set out the pretty high standards by which his streets would be judged. and um, you know, that means of that probably being judged according to the highest standards in those countries with armies. dave, health defense when it's due to get around the same boat. so they salt lake, so mr. bar, i'm afraid produced a rolled for that because i'm back with. so yes, i think this huge reputation was coming here. we have the country. so who of a group of people to whom the word genocide was created a commit single the i c, j, a school, the plausible genocide against, against the people don't supplies. so you know how great a risk to a company's reputation. come one, get either committing genocide with yourself as

a genocide list against you. and that's pretty damaging, i would say. so. i mean it's very side. i think it's real is now a think more of a prostate that it's as a beam in its history. on the other side, of course, it makes it very difficult for staff members to operate this huge problem overall. i think the much, the 160 stuff members killed them as a cooling treatment, but made a mistake about it. i mean i'm, it has 13000 staffing, gaza, they all to a person and committed humanitarians. and as the buttons have dropped colleagues in full, the colleagues of mine does continue to go to the office of continued to report for gc but, but yes, it's a, it's the problem. and i would also say that so on rough else what i mentioned earlier that they work, in other words, in jordan, syria and lebanon, as well as the west bank and gaza. um its a pull in to see your colleagues being boned and but isn't killed in this way. so.

yeah, it hasn't no kind of fact i think on the rest of them right across the region. christopher goodness, former united nations relief and works agencies spokesman, thank you so much for joining us. it's my pleasure to be with you to on the speak. you can see the general norman schwarzkopf, the former commander of the us central command, who led us forces in the liberation of co. 8. 1 said the truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. the hard part is doing it. we're seeing that right now and guys, lots of people is rarely politicians and is really soldiers, especially know the right thing to do. they know they should respect human rights. they know they should involve hospitals and clinics. they know that they should allow shipments of food, water, and medicine, and yet they don't. that's why we need organizations like on row. every person in the world deserves dignity, freedom, food, water, medical care, and peace. and employees of the united nations have the right to do their jobs in

peace and security. i'd like to thank our guests, christopher gunners for enlightening us today. and thanks to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry. aku, we'll see you next time. the 1941 with the nazis health relation, ultra nationalists, the massages the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly off the seizing power. they build the sale of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia. during we'll go to the stash is use the cam system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us come when the gods tortured to arise and the

prisoners they send them the concentration camps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide, the high acceptance. and i'm going to plain with you, whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the russian defense minister holds phone talks with his friends come to parts. we must go circuit shows, the cautioning pass away from sending a fringe contingent plain pulitzer prize winning journalist seymour hersh reaches out to his sources and confesses at washington, provided less than specific information regarding the places between the tales in these really parliament has relatives of