most of them died 6 was incredible genocide, the breaking news or wrong confirmed the destined to revolution. we got generals and 5 offices in this range, like when you're bringing close to the syrian capital ukraine ratings. rootkits on, the russian city of belgrade, enjoying 9 civilians and pacing residential buildings. russia is federal security service, says the terrorist suspects of this case in sundays, reagan, southern russia, was directly involved in a decision foremost with one of the detainees. admitting that another attack was being prepared, we were planning a terrorist attack here from the bank of cas, b, c. d, or in the victory part targets in

a crowd of people. i believe the weapons to the guys who attacked croakers, city hall and israel withdrawal was exposed. this allows chief officer to totally northern going the officer, reportedly killing 400 kind of simians for destroying over 1000 homes in the area. there were dead people everywhere, but god willing, this occupation is doomed to end. netanyahu is doing to end america is doomed to end all those who bombed us no matter how much they bomb us and destroy all this occupation is doomed to end. well, this is all the international, those are your headlines this out. we will be bringing you more on those stories, stories later on though for now it's going under the

a lot of options. i'd say welcome back to going underground will cost to go around the world from the u a. it's april fools day and i'll give you the only a full with authentic conference scheduled for today with us and basset with you. and then to, to him is green field and don't wonder how she thought un security council resolution to 7 to a demanding a cause. a seatbar was nor to binding all countries voted for it. except the usa that is funded. and i'm the genocide critical to the propaganda narrative to enable us u. k. u nation weapons transfer to israel have been raped, claims and beheaded babies. i'm, it's the october 7th resistance attacks by him. us joining me now again on going underground is the son of holocaust. survivors, professor norman finkelstein known all around the world, the scholarly work on the effects of zionism. his books include image in reality, all the israel palestine conflict, the whole of cost industry and gaza. an inquest into it's month to them. he joins me now from new york. thank you so much. progressive. think of stuff going back on

the show. it's been too long arguably. i mean, as, as guys are phases that uh from in your latest uh piece is about uh, october, the 7th or an analysis of october, the 7th by one of engineer gutierrez's officials. how important it has been the propaganda about october 7th, the the use of sexual violence and beheaded babies to allow the populations of the countries of germany, prominence breaking the united states in arming the genocide as x of the what happened in october 7th, which remained murky and there are aspects which are fairly clear until there is an official investigation, which is the normal procedure, an international investigation which the one points to carry out, but which is what refuses to allow it to carry out. we won't have any kind of

authority to this. the details on what happened. oh, some things to me are crystal clear or beyond dispute about 400 combatants were killed about 800 or more civilians were killed. i don't see. there's any point in arguing that is uh from us and it's all organizations are committed now since trots of these atrocities and the update. i think it's silly to argue exactly how much of the, how many of those 800 and some odd of civilians killed. how many were killed by the milton suddenly they were killed by and cross, sire and so forth. we don't know the exact numbers that this guy that the, you know, they've got to be significant that were killed by how much. so i don't want to argue that i think it's the, which i don't think the biggest particularly important into the bank i had. oh, you mentioned earlier before we came on there, the debate i had with them the mars mars?

i said, i can't tell you the numbers because obviously for, for figures that's what i do in life. i'm a forensic scholar. i look for numbers or look for evidence and i'm as you give me a credible figure, i, i'm not going to give a number in the debate. my partner moreno, barney, you said a clear majority were killed by home us. then the mars want to attempt to say over whelming, which already, well, i didn't know how do you even discriminate between those 2 of uh, locations. clear majority versus overwhelming majority. if we don't know the numbers by the name of the fan is progressive it's, i'm not, you know, given the scale all scanning multiples since october 7 it's, it's the use of what we don't know is it wherever october 7th, to enable the genocide that i'm more interested in you called at the rates than to see the formula pad your are i'm going to get to the half moment. i sort of will

establish what we know what we don't know. um, so oh, i say that i, unless you give me forensic evidence digital evidence are kind of give you a figure. i wouldn't give a figure for anything without with forensic or digital evidence because i'm a forensic star one to see the concrete evidence. and i never thought it was important, you know, in about see how the costs. it says the official figure put up like, oh, institution, 6000000 jews were killed, no, ro, hilbert. the best scholar in the topic, he said 5100000. does it make a difference? do we really say, oh, was only 5100000. of course that is completely irrelevant from the point of view of the yellow judgment. from the point of view of a historical or factual judgement numbers count the judgement. i said massive atrocities are good and that's as far as i could go without forensic evidence, no type of things that were how to immediately after october, 7th,

for the claims of the headings and rates. those were the 2 talking points if you will, about october 7th, beyond beyond the, the mastercard. so the be heading, so it seems israel has dropped because if you look at the oral proceedings for the i c j on the genocide case, when they listed these readings and oral proceedings when they listed the atrocities occurred on october 7th, they did not include the headaches, i should just say your old squire invited your partner island judge events of yale . the apparently uh pick buys ren benjamin netanyahu to defend israel at the well cool, said on this program, people who i seem to be on rumble, that not only was it skepticism, was as bad as denying the whole cause. but that he saw photographs of uh, headed headed babies, i think. yeah,

well that may be what he looks at after hours at home and may have been from october 7th, so that's the side of up. and then with the questions of the rates. no, i was, i was skeptical at the beginning about the rate the systematic rates claim. i won't go into my reason that you have more to do in my reason for me. has more to do with if you will forgive me, have more to do with my understanding of the not just of muslim culture in general . they have a lot of the, our lives and friends, a lot of my students, i know them quite well. and for reasons which i don't want to go into now because it 1st know i found a chart. i was skeptical of the charge except this movie, an isolated incidents here in isolated system there. and then the whole controversy, i assume you, as you know, i follow the box is right discharge. and the people who are very knowledgeable in

the topic they were going back and forth play with the new york times story was fraudulent on the case of the school was not just in your cards. now it was the guardian, as my friend, judy stern minor, pointed out to me yesterday. it wasn't the only the new york times which, what with that systematic rates or reuse, also the british guardians. and right now the british car has to have low. they don't want to be reminded of what they did when the tide spots do that story and then turn to a premier, a lot packed in paper and i read it. i'm always, as i said, i'm a forensic scholar. i'm curious about governance and it was a very strange thing. first of all, i, i called to say because it's all clear what it was. she says, i'm not an investigator. this is not an investigative body, but there she says, i'm analyzing the evidence. i'm verifying the evidence and i'm reaching not just,

you know, um uh, if you know, human rights supports human rights reports are supposed to be preliminary tool, full fledged investigation. and so the why would you always use is reasonable grounds to believe that's the maximum? typically a human rights report we do, we have reasonable grounds to believe this that and that, but they never make state anything more because they haven't carried out a full fledged legal investigation from the past due. she not only claims reasonable rounds to believe. she also claim clear and convincing evidence that so much fire spender. and so now i'm shaking my head. you're saying you're not even, you're not even an investigative body like human rights watch amnesty international

or commissions mandated by the un human rights council. you say you're not even dead, but you're not claiming that you have a higher standard of evidence. you claim you are clear and convincing evidence i mean to she has blurry is actually your camera is going in and out of a focus, but didn't know all the decades. you being a forensically analyzing statements out of you and officials. have you ever seen anything like it in terms of where the top line at a press conference could just go out tool and use agency as, as there was raped? actually, there was one example. it was with the mob, the mormon rook. i asked even bobby lower instance. there was a big to do between turkey and israel because the vessels were, or the for my, remember about best for your listeners. that was the humanitarian con, voice. that was going to die. so in may 2010 to break simple. okay. yeah,

the break the block a with the humanitarian goods and there are 3 o clock the vessel and then killed 9. the later transfers were killed, died from the attack, and a secretary general donkey moved. it was trying to figure out a way to record to read about conciliation between turkey as is real. and the a point to this absolutely disgraceful commission called the palmer commission, had honored the columbia and war criminal. what are you was on it. and they produced a completely ridiculous report. i am a lives in great detail and one of my books to point be when the secretary general up points a condition, a red light should go off your head. this is not at all. is this the guy shouldn't,

this is about politics as good here rose up point to this committee. it's not even a commission. i don't know what it is. as a saw to united states as real, to show these being ballots. because you will notice good terrorist, suspecting so pretty strong statements after october 7th. i was very surprised. i thought okay, this guy is going to be gone by christmas. it's the dry. when you mean gone, you don't mean like damage. sho. oh no, not that way. oh, but he was being pretty tall and i didn't think how i didn't see how he would less . but now i see how we left you yesterday. the un surgery general, you suspect is the subject of a quick bro quote, to allow him to continue talking about the genocide and caring anything about this . yeah i, i would say that it was a political move by the secretary general in order to show he was valid.

but it was a very strange political move and you know, why here is the power ducks. paradox is the, the camilla packed in report ended up being the most compelling evidence that there wasn't a wide spread rape and sexual violence on october 7th. now you might be wondering how can that be all the media were saying, here's the post. we have the prove, we have the smoking going, the middle of the bathroom report. but what is the privilege passenger board show this enough carefully? number one, they were supplied overwhelmingly with the evidence from the as well the government . so you conclude not just in for you can clue is one they, it's best case to the correct. what was their, israel's best case?

they look at not less than 5000 photographs. and they looked at 50. so hours of digital footage. ok. fairly simple hours. it's not a little that would be if you max, they could have looked good for 8 hours a day that's i can see how beyond that. that's 6 full days that we're looking at this digital footage. they told us were passing, told us before they came from where terms dash terms cctv traffic monitors, which is the say the footage taken from every conceivable angle. ok. i'm on. i'm going to provide ghost. i will just go to

a break now more from one of the world's great, just really scroll is up to this break. the, what is part of the employee would post good. isn't the deepest view of us and building the word? or is it something deeper or complex might be present? good. let's stop without pleases. let's go out of of the

welcome back to going out the garden. i'm still here with professor goldman single sign on through the holocaust industry and go as an inquest into it tomorrow. to progressive, think of time before i interrupted you were talking about this uh well, effectively rape fantasy of the un official high in the butch. empty. proving that the whole of the propaganda media and go to the about what happened on the very they examined fluid from every conceivable and go by every cigarette consumable technological device. and you have to remember that the area was a bucking gossip, which means it must have been among the most heavily surveilled areas and go over this through. and here's the, here's the upshot, the character they said in the report they couldn't find one single image or frame of sexual violence,

no one. and this was israel's best case number to has is yet sunk in because there was a complete shock to me when i was ready to get because this is supposed to be the smoking gun clothing such a violent number to they said they couldn't find a single scrap of what they call medical legal evidence, meaning forensic evidence on sexual violence, not a single strep. and then number 2, a, they said none of the victims and stuff for. now the argument is because most of them are killed the victims, that's the how the argument goes. that's not what this happened. the board said, go look at it. it didn't say because there was an absence of direct victims. they gave the claim they gave way kinds of claim. number one,

they said the people in that area have now been to why can be dispersed throughout israel. number 2, they claim that they, these people didn't trust you when commission and number 3, they said they were to trauma tides. well, that's just not credible. how important, how important is it for uh, this oriental ism, this arguable racism against palestinians to justify genocide in the continuing billions of dollars of weapons being sent to murder more palestinian. uh well, what does it, 13000 a children. go into the homicide link ministry. $30000.00, mostly women and children killed. what, why, why have you written this piece about the rate fantasies of upper middle above them and why every other day you'll hear on mainstream the propaganda,

the media in nature of countries of sexual violence as the excuse. so i haven't looked at it myself, but other people have cited is us a this repaired that was done by frank long seems a very influential analyzer of public opinion in the us, the us. and what the study showed was, were pertaining to the events of october 7. when the he, when there was asked to list which kinds of evidence of most influenced you in your support of israel. they said number one was right. so it was from the point of view of public relations and galvanizing public support. it was known by

them the proper gators of this claim that it was we can use the words, it was the most potent weapon in their propaganda arsenal. to propagate this claim. so that's to me, it's 5 star a reason why every time is real faces with other p r crisis in new york times as a new one headline about the accusations of rate and sexual violence on october 7th. well, let's move on then to this. suppose it, the more maybe is propaganda mainstream media of the paper. here netanyahu faces crisis and us relations of to picking public fight with bible. you went to school, i understand with chuck schumer, the highest ranking. that was he was,

he was 3 years ahead of me in my high school. oh, what did you make of either he's previously said in 2010 that the people of god must collectively be strangled. so you wouldn't take as much difference between chuck schumer and that you know, when it comes to supporting genocide. and yet, if you were to read the new york times or any of these cnn and bbc and sky news, you'd think there's this big split between blinking is being here in the middle east. is this the manufactured given that the arms continue to be sense to uh, to netanyahu or, or uh they preparing something different. i had once they've killed all the palace palestinians of gaza. well, let's be clear, said said majority leader, chuck schumer likes to be senate majority leader election

is coming up and present invited once the when the election and the whole democratic party wants to in the election. and they have 2 problems, or should say they have the court between 2 conflicting forces. on the one hand, there is a jewish building in their class. and by the once their mother, you need their money, you know, in our country where you calculate the success of a campaign is how much money and cost campaign contributions comes in each week. they keep very close tracking that number as he needs the money in general. i won't say every case in general. there's been good social scientific research on it. there's a direct correlation between which side gets the most money and campaign contributions and who wins the election. that's the way our system works. so he needs that money

and that was the judge billionaire class has since october 7th. it's become utterly and totally roofless in its support of israel. there is no power low in american history. i'm not just talking about modern american history of outside individuals have to link probably not one, but 2 presidents of id, the universities. they copy of the top of the core being gay, and then they toppled mcgill in university of pennsylvania. they are was less now. gary and mcgill, we're talking because they were insufficiently repressed and suppressive of this on their campuses. and why didn't those

one false me? and they all just give their money to trent? we'll just switch. so he has to keep sending to work. so what have they then ask him to go like a israel? i've tried to get the united states and its allies to go to war in iraq of the 911 . i mean, does that mean they get this way? them for an attack on their run? because it to the threat i know i have to defend the i've studied that quite closely. that was a decision made by rumsfeld cheney that was not in this reality, this isn't actually, it is. well, he's one of the last back them to go after a random not correct. so i don't think they play that would they could they do at this time? so however, there is a critical point here. what you're saying, senator sure. robert, none of that is. were the only 2 democrats for the main senators who tells they are ready to deal out of loyalty to israel. and now it's sure that say schumer

who oppose the around the view and the same schumer who was incorrectly quoted in 2006, 10, said we should economically strain, go die. so that's what he said. it's the same schumer who gave that speech. and that's why i've said there are 2 forces, the course between the jewish 1000000000. there are class and the democratic party base. and there's a lot of turbulence, not to mention outrage in the democratic party base as the support of the, by the administration for the fact of support of dividing ministration for israel. then they believe me talk to supports and natalie is real. and so sure it was a very interesting speech, was very interesting. first of all,

he named flor ops that goes to piece one hom us to the posted in a $33.00. yes and yahoo and for the for right israel, the balance, the balance, the responsibility. very unusual, especially he's the guy who opposed the around you use like way out in right field dollars. and then the most interesting part of the speech was he didn't say support the one state was at the semitic, as he actually said, did you read the speech? he said, i understand the idealism of young people what one state and don't see what's wrong with one state. he then tried proceeds to try to rationally refute the demand for one state. but he did not

dismiss it out of hand. okay. i'm sorry. progressive of we're just running out of time, but as you say, that's the 1st time i think one state is back on the agenda. but in the last 2 minutes, blink kind of course has been in this region talking about the some sort appear. uh, it was previously mooted by and his rarely transport secretary could the u. s. military be involved in this region off the coast of gauze or with a peer peer. so that's how this whole thing searches disgraceful public. right? you know, every precedent, right, you know, running for office of course are going to get gay g p r. but to get a g p r, when children are starving to death in the most literal sense. everybody with an ounce, i ounce of knowledge. it's value. there is no need for a p or hundreds of trucks outside

god. so which of waiting to answer the problem is not material has to be. the problem is not even load, just fix the problem is exactly as the your foreign policy chief said. well, as well as using starvation as a weapon. let's not treat today and that's the new york times that this is a no cool question of how to get the people of excuse me, the food and medicine to the people in gaza. this is not the cold question. this is a political question. there is a c. impose on garza to star the population to

death was almost cylinders. that's the problem. professor norman finkelstein, thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences it as bereaved by u. k. u. s. u. i'm bombing in palestine, lebanon. yeah, i'm in syria and iraq. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch my role as social media. if it's not sense, if you'll country and add to our channel going underground tv, hon dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground successor the .