for the each drug store here and there was a orchestra on your cell. yeah, it says it's the ultimate needs to be lucky to get on the o. this goes to so that even though finland technically last as neutrality this year, it was actually never really that neutral and far more aligned with the west, even allowing their agents to work against russia on their soil. so it's hardly surprising that they joined nato in a heartbeat and started spewing out conspiracy theories about russel planning to

invade. another case of the pops calling the kettle black is coming up next option, which honestly with the latest episode of going on the ground and help us out with more needs inside the option or times and welcome back to going underground broadcasting around the world from dubai. in the u. a as a global south prepares for august brick summit, 2 more remarks, 76 years and c, i in bricks, india, one, it's independence from britain. the now most populous country in the world would re gain sovereignty, but also be politicians 76 years ago today in violence that would kill window displays tens of millions. and here has come

a long way since then. now the 3rd largest economy by bbc in the top 5 along with russia, china, and the usa. but now in the years on the rise, what threats are facing adjoining me now from its capital. new delhi is one of india's most famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress, m p, and former of the secretary general of the united nations. doctor sachi through a. thank you so much 1st because you for coming back on this ration. so you didn't become president of the congress policy. i thought you're going to good clinch that by the time that you an extra ongoing undergrads. i should that you just said it was us a very resign during the visa. i have the distinction. i haven't been the most successful news in the history of going to respond to your directions, which i suppose is, is a kind of modest consultation. what has to pack away and the at the bottom of was a lot of strong short lap. and one day before we get to independence, i better just quickly ask you because the world is looking at these. yeah. what would biden's ending? victoria newland down to the i'm a a and

a lot of people talking about these. yeah. because it's a source of uranium for nuclear weapons when you think about 25 percent going to the u. b r as well to the former indian indian on voyage. and he just said as well as india is relations with these air concerned, the overall relationship is not going to be damaged by that much warranty. plastic response, then say, paris or washington talking about full scale invasion then? yes, i think it probably, i think some of those are supposed be right. that is a basic relationship with uh, with these. yeah. and indeed, with most doctors in africa ups, i send it to be free of its, of its own democratic credentials and convictions. as attended by lodge street to avoid the kind of sort of model by using the western countries or nations with african countries or do possibly be causing the focus on national interest. and partially because in depths, i think has realized that sometimes different standards would need to be applied in situations in which countries have to govern themselves as best they can and works

in what's best they can middle of necessarily match the standards. and you'd like to set the, well, well, some, some of the same revolution, thomas and the revolutionary government as more democratic credentials. then the us, the nato backs one uh, the preceded hits. so who knows who gets a go to to be sure exactly what the record is largest. yes, i think we'll have to seats as they settled down. there is also, as you know, the legend demands for wagner. really, the most of the group to be involved in the right, no sizes are coming in all that takes the direction of the government and, and how they behave. i would also remain to be seen and we've seen what is a big c i a basic needs. yeah, they put an offer $1000000000.00. what into the into that area. so clearly this is a size of proxy war and i given it's 76 years since independence and the brutal partition indian wants to fight it seems to me on this geo political stage with nuclear pockets the it's finding with nuclear china off the time. and this is while

the global south, including the jab, aquino, 5, so including brazil, including the south east asia there. we'll talk about this new world. india is fighting with pockets the with china. i think you being critical with the working with the rush or i mean you one russian energy is a new india is there in the indian political class. completely unaware of this new world order and it's breaking out nbc made one clean that on on these measures. are you saying this? i say, i think of being a little on just because lucky and bosses adversary's who have in, in, in both cases, initiates its actions that have puts us in the obligation to defend ourselves. but having said that, nobody in, even though human, our investigators in these situations is contemplating anything by way of a new care engagement. so we're looking at what i've been struggling with the chinese mine establishes on the frontier the one of them was use enough for us to use 20 soldiers in one episode with the chinese. i will, buckets on the side,

it's not being directory consultation with a box on the army, but rather with militants, instead of re sent across from that side. so we, we are alone. we sort of new to conflict to that's what you're concerned about. certainly everyone with also bringing the heads wouldn't be concerned about the prospect a new k was, but it's not exactly human and notarized seems likely has been coming in. but what i will say, however, is that every country has a responsibility to hook up to its national security. and we're not exactly living in a safe neighborhood. we've government insurance on both side, 2 sides of us and we need to be a series of reality. and so to be careful. yeah, you see even the way you said belligerence on both sides? sounds like the, the old world give me i'm well, india is doing lloyd austin was there in india on june, june of this year, 5 year roadmap to count. it's showing the regina thing was there to hear about us a weapon. sales to india had combat land mobility surveillance intelligence. munitions basically is um in the are

a bit likely european union. i mean the united states wants to divide russia through your grain and you'll find china through india. and we've seen what it's done to the european union because germany is in recession, and many people are talking about your demise. india continues in this way. is it actually a vassal states on the 75th and 6th, none of those are the, every one option is dealt with india knows i know and guess to use india to pursue any other objective of all sorts. and as interest, i don't think that's in getting governments with a lot of except we use in 76 years since independence. and i can assure you that they will be absent or to no tolerance for playing anybody else's game is the rest of selling ourselves. that's because that's good business for them. and of course it happens to coincide with some of that g o strategic objectives. unaware of buying those items, just because we need to not because been willing to pay anybody else has been. the truth is that we are and the difficult situations are pretty simple. um,

suppliers itself running shorter weapon rates because of its water, new crate. oh, we have to diversify services and we go to the us content from soup. dent is ropes, and this is not surprising. we also to, and i'm sure to other countries that used to be in this will be a little bit not might have spare parts for some of the russian ribbon. are you still huge, obviously, that obviously the power of india and maybe in your constituency and carrier that will be saying you can spend the money more cleverly than the buying military arms . but i should also say the us state department, matthew miller, lincoln's man at the, in washington said, you know, the us regularly raises human rights concerns with india. we've done that in the past with india and we'll do that in the future just just as the past few weeks. this is what the united states things of india. it's a human rights violating country while simultaneously trying to make cash out of india by selling them uh, the general atomics of you avi's $2000000000.00. i think you just spent on it know to get better already shoes. and in the greenville position,

policies have been raising consistently, but we don't go and asking western countries to do our work for us. we will raise issues as part of our response to rule as an opposition in democracy. and we will challenge our government. but uh, but i think by large it's up to indians to solve their own problems, whether in relation to human rights or anything else, or you can only policy political approaches, foreign policy. these messes are the subjects for debate within the indian context . but we are, we are not particularly on either side of the political aisle welcoming, of foreign interference and these issues. well, you being critical of moody things too close to russia and isn't the point here that joseph bar l, the you the believe good give the european union foreign minister said your up as a god and the rest of the world is a jungle. i mean, it's only is that your ex colonial rule is those, those countries in europe because portugal was there in the india. i mean, they rang a see. and here's

a cash cow. now as it's economically has risen in the past decades. and while navigating this moody is trying to navigate it and your last thing, we should be close it in washington as the congress party does under some video, simplifying my position to read it to you. first of all, let me stress and reaction to that comment that guns maybe more comfortable, but just those are more interesting. so i think i'm going to be where, where people find that interesting challenges facing the number one. number 2, i did not say that in this too close to russia. i fully understand that it was possible that a person, instead of a long time, i simply said that on the ukraine measure, that india has failed, especially initially to uphold principles that it is starting to survive a 7 big change, including these sovereignty of states being violent literacy of voters, of the investment in of the visibility of use a force to settle international disputes. so i said, since i didn't hear you say one word about that when uh,

when off to the us who in care of they was selling and killing 14000 people in east and ukraine. i didn't see you make one speech in the congress saying uh that the ukrainians were killing 14000 people in eastern new crew. why now are you re reciting to me, washington talking points. olivia, you were the un, isn't it? as a 2nd, general one involves a member states of the united submissions violating the sovereignty of another. the other involves a government of a recognized member stage of the un attaching a portion of what is seen internationally as its own territory. there is a difference and i think on these messages, countries like india, can you afford to surrender the principals because that surrender will and could be used against us in parts of our own country. such as, for example, gives me insights. i, i'm very consistent with my improved, so we need to stand by the principles of your role is always off hills for the last

7 decades. it's nothing against russia as a, as a friend, it's against russia's pacific action. it's like good people can do wrong. things this was a wrong thing and we had to point to that. but i will say that india has to fight its own battles and it has to and up for its own security in which every responsible in doing citizen will support the government of india. we show apology, they may be from as long as they take responsible actions to progress, to project national security. we will be critical where the governments are seen as immune sufficiently muscular, as we find has been the case of the china border. well, obviously russia sees that the battle in europe is existential. and as a proportion of the population of the un general assembly, the majority of humanities, he didn't vote for the resolution condemning russia for its operations in,

in ukraine. and what you just said gives me those vision as well as the it month with the shanghai cooperation organization. the idea of a new security world does is really, i mean it's, it's more of the old world of game you're talking about india or is that while the rest of the global south are all talking about a new security architecture, hocking back babs to, to band boom, and then online, move with as well in the as you know, as, as in some ways been playing. it's all sides. it's chad. the su, chairing the g. 20. i activated the brakes. uh it has. it has in many ways, tried to keep all the channels of communication and a good relations products. and i think that's and so where is this being a tough act to pull off, which india so far managed to do well then to rely them tegan, isaac, anybody else is heading into the bridge? somebody in south africa in the spirit?

very much. i'll sort of participation. there are important issues before reaching clearing the possibility of its expansion, which fits into what you're talking about. the emergence of new configurations. while the same time, it has actually reaffirmed its role in the g 20 during its chairmanship. so i think, i think you have to give credit to india for not presenting in a way that can less it'd be type cost on one side, all the other of what you're seeing as a global device, especially for i'll stop you the more from the indian national congress and being for the indian external affairs minister after this break the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with one of the news was famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress and being able to shushing through a josh or you were talking about the brakes. uh, in a few days time at the, at the end of the month. uh, in south africa, i do think good. you are right to criticize brakes for platitudes, rather than action. we had to go to neil for the goldman sachs boss who coined the 10 brick on the show. and he said, economies have to be careful about how they say dispose of dollar debts in nature nation. you know, your opinion, data is as the rise of brakes happens, you don't want to see the acceleration of the dumping of debts and this new bricks . well, the order of the dollarization, well, we don't really know how that's going to go. and i think there's been some conversation about this, but nothing's changing anything remotely like

a formal shape. the individual government sort of taking individual actions. and i think governments are going to be guided by what they see as being their own interest makes extremely interesting issues going on in the, in the bridgestone tex. first of all is going to be very widely attended. i gather the invitations to attend the summit. i'm not just for the, the 5 meters and a 5 member countries up to 67 meters across africa, left in america, in the caribbean. and on top of that, the 20 degrees, including the sectors of the united nations, the jap, personally, the african union. and the president has a new developing bank. i'm old and invited. so well, we are looking at the much larger sources context for breaks business the, those are going to be attending. and there's going to be open discussion of something that some members have been pursuing more avenue than other than that is expensive. but adding adding new members, now i know there's some skepticism by some there's more winning this for others, but i'm in order to suggest that jumps bricks is boys for the never knew from that

might indeed make it more relevant rather than less. so it was pleasant shoots, certainly have had problems and organizations like to come and roast. i love the british that helps bruce come to for to go. that's ways has to find a certain clear relevance coming off of this, this version. i'm not sure. i'm not sure on the brick fleet is would like it to be compared to the to the kweisi imperial coming. well, i'd say we've, we've, that is huge and that's why i reminded me of we've, we've had little on this show brazil obviously taking a big lead to be russia massively involved in this new diesel arise ation world. china very much involved. south africa. there was a recent conference in st. petersburg talking about the close to us between the african nations away from the i m f and will banks again and again, it isn't the i that's the india. that's the problem here because it has problems

with china. you're talking about the fact that you should basically be condemning rusher over you, graeme. and i'm not sure what the, what you want to say about south africa and brazil is india and hope this not a bit of a problem. yeah, this is actually a very good relationship with both of us, again, brazil, and indeed there is a separate organization of the 3 of them, both himself endeavors in south africa, which is actually got some of his own developing projects going on and dates respective countries. us out every day is the smallest rich country as a globe both in terms of population and perhaps in terms of the size of the economy . but they were the 1st beneficiaries of expansion when britain became breaks. and i would argue that now with a group that comes to more than 40 percent of the population and about 26 percent of the global economy out, there is the emergence of what everyone sees as an alternative forms for countries um, or to develop new diplomatic channels, which indeed all 3 of these conditional dominant western college. and i think the,

you know, we've been seeing and we've been hearing a lot of talk of the decline into increasing get irrelevant. it's a somewhat suggestive, a normal line mobile breaks could be the nucleus or something that's, that's the, in a sense there's a successor to them on the line movement, not as large. and as i'm really as non alignment about perhaps capable of more focused engagement, i would say that as long as countries like brazilian india, i have the kinds of use that have and i've seen is having the, the credit ability in the clouds that have um, uh, no one is going to choose brakes or just being a cash pool to russian and chinese infants, but i will have to agency. i think the how all these things go, what comes out of each the break some is um i think ups. yeah. the lot of questions, questions, some of the i googled you ballistics are very important, but they will be discussions on trade. they've been discussions on a china is major leap on infrastructure developments in many of the british

countries. i think i think we're going to have to see some, some pretty solid progress coming off of this, this metering including on depression of expansion because of the 20 sweep ending up positions off on your brakes images. and i think that's, again is something that is bound to be of some concern. a to just are members and brazil has been opened to skeptical, for example, of enlargement. india has been surprising that there's more welcoming and, and we know that we know that russia and china have been quite keen on seeing some new members coming in from china, i think is obviously the main driver for expansion of bridge. so i think there's, there's a lot of questions yet, a lot of possible trends. we love to see how it amazes mobile unites brazil. i mean, lula was obviously imprisoned because of a defacto us back who he said. so in this show, we know what russia thinks of washington, we know what presented things of washington. we know what china thinks of

washington and the google vessels dates of your and we know what south africa thinks you trust them, don't you? i mean, you have the congress body of india seem to trust the united states and european union countries as uh, as nations that you're going to do masses of arms deals with and attempt to side with what, why is india still? if you're exaggerating that rule, it almost plays and all this is a useful element, but it's by no means dominant. none of these countries is principally, for example, not so none of these countries is the principal element and the relationship of lloyd austin was there. as i said on june, a 5 year roadmap for india for you. i mean the 0 um, from the united states coming to indian 20 way then uh, $20000000000.00. that's right. because instead of guessing brooklyn, we believe we need and we're trying to, i will be more or more in expensive

a live. we have ups assessment. why do you think it'll work? why do you think american arms will work? because it's currently being blown to pieces in the training, but battlefront. but as far as you know, some of the media say exactly the opposite. that is the russian ups that have not been over your grades advertisement for the weapons supplies. i, i'm not a ministry man, i'm going to stay away from that. but i've seen both both kinds of arguments and more and more to the printer does seem as a russian stocks i did piecing with each passing day is a while when you print, making them less and less likely to be a reliable supply of more weaponry. and most parents, i think we certainly need to diversify all sources. i want to stress that india has always tried to preserve its own sense of autonomy by maintaining good relations with all sides and to maintain the channels of communication as well as on sales, as well as great with all sides. um, even with china, even off to china, can 20 also just a trade relationship has actually gone up,

which this may some of us. but it also points to the fact that this is an increase in gains independent world when it comes to trade and commerce. and no one can afford to be finished to your buddy who wants to change risk. so all of these things i have to say to wait for your refers to the us sanctions. i mean, penny, the united states and nato countries. i'm not happy with india buying. i think more energy from russia than ever before in the past few days. so you'll complete before the how they see it as breaking their sanctions, the, the, you on so as to be trading with russia. yes, and i would say that as long as treatment rush is concerned, it isn't into is national interest. but i would argue that one might be overstating . oh, i'm happy the western countries over this because, you know, russian already goes into the mix of all the videos in both of the oil which has been refined and, and then the sub list is sold to the us and the u. k. anyway, so really ready, countries that have sanctioned russia are indirectly benefiting from russian oil. once for 5 months it's for finding in this is rose up. do you have the effect of

the india buying russian or stabilizers what the price is? because it's not, it would be adding to the number of countries competing for the risk of was orders or, or in supplies. and that would drive the price is up with the pump for consumers in america, britain and the rest of europe. so you're looking at a broad picture, i think you would genuine, you have to understand that what he just doing is not in fact uh isn't. why wouldn't turn it around and say just it is in the interest of the west as well as of india. i was a restaurant, but not yeah, that, that isn't the regularly coverage on the us and european television channels. what you just said that i lost the, you know, i was ask you about him wrong. com. it was on this show clearly detailed washington's role in his own withdrawal as he saw it. he. so it is a washington capitalized to, i mean, the closest to it, it's india is come to washington directly affecting your region and

the problems on the geo political problems of face india today. no, i'm quite sure the state ends on the buck hassan situation. we believe is this fall apart, kasanya used to work out amongst themselves. we all know that, whereas other countries, you can say that the state has an already in boxes on the, on the has a space and no head of government has been able to survive. so far in the 76 year as an existence, it means that head of government has folded the father really. so in every case as in design, easy co existence between the civilian leadership and the ministry. i think the side of the time the ministry has ruled, the country directed and the rest of the time is really the country in directory by controlling who gets to be prime minister. i don't think we have a dog even despises expression goes and i certainly wouldn't last a toilet. expect any indian, a pharmacy agency or individual or government lead us to interfere in the slightest way out of pocket stuff. they were on tongue was a personal friend of mine before he became prime minister. i'm very happy to come

to him as one but tough. but as an indian, all i can do is sit back and watch and see what happens. robust as, as a process plays itself out in a neighboring country. i think most indians want to see a stable buck the sun because instability in buck stops is bound to spill over one way or the other and talk about how that stability is ensured. who, by and was looking at the helm, is really not in our hands, nor should it be racial simply watching with well, uh, pocket sondra. additionally, always close to china. do you think then and i needed to visit info one that the united states will use india against china over to i want i don't think india is right. so being used by anybody ever. i don't think any country is so far and 76. yes. really said that before, but i mean if, if the american warships have down there, which side is indeed going to be on, it's just going to layoff the motion stage to be involved in the indian sites with china and india as problems with china or the land border,

there are no american troops in india. you're talking about a geostrategic. if you'd like just name what people in the back rows, i'll suggest broad. i'm looking at the big picture for where we are. i unfortunately engaged our bibles. eyeball with the chinese is on the snow, you race of them others and it's all in the lab. then it's got nothing to do with the american war search. okay. and they're american soldiers all around india. it has to be said, we just saw it. and there's no india saw there around india if india continues to disobey a v, i say that kind of rules being given to your p and countries as to what to do in terms of foreign policy and the how to trade and who just sanction. i don't know whether you believe by them was behind the north stream uh, bombing at do you think and he will never come to be threatened in the, in bigger ways than just the state department in the past few days. and you are human rights allows the book, i don't mean to sound complacent,

but i will say that it ever comes to this really hard to take care of. also, i'm not somebody who worries a buy from is going to threaten us at the moment. we are aware of the existing threats and i've identified a couple of them. and then we hope to diffuse and, but we are not going to be making foreign policy out for fifths, nor are we going to be making it out of ours and complacency we will keep on our toes. we will certainly protect our own security interest and we will ensure that our strategic autonomy, which we've generously safe, got into 76 is, is not done uses by any of our foreign policy decisions. i think that's a, a fast summary over at both the governments and the opposition would stand on this line of question dr. strategy through abbey india today. thank you or well, it is tomorrow, the 16th of august option, but us, thank you very much in advance. so that's our independence day. thank you. that's over the show. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then you can give it to us. why will i

social media if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going underground tv on rumbled com to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad. so you don't set the the as it creates much more over 5 to counter offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable, rhetorical tippett binding says, put in his already lost board. the secretary of state pointing says russia has lost their narrative is

a form of pseudo reality because making the claim your brain is wendy, is untenable. the amount is the pain for trying to stop the latest burning of the crown in sweden and saw contrast to the reaction of still kind move forward easily allows to other has to be safe, publicly destroy them. the reason as can government is open to dialogue with the echo was as it is thanks to put an end to the escalating tensions in the region. we heard from the head of a mediation going to be this is naomi wanting to discuss them on the is it that goes to the tony we'll see you should find out the last and solution on this.