the post ukraine dying us empires vessel states in europe. things may not be so rosy while 40000000 will go hungry tonight in the usa, the media may be talking about something, all the debt ceiling. they probably shouldn't be, says one economist who advises congresswoman alexandria cause cortez amongst others . amidst his fight to end the climate emergency. professor robert hawkins cornell, edward cornell, professor of law and professor public policy cornell university and senior counsel at westwood capital investment bank joins me now. from new york city. thank you so much, professor. good for coming on. yeah, the world's financial markets. they've been concerned about the fmc monetary policy interest rates that doug will affect the financial, the indices all around the world. but i mean, here maybe in the global south is de dollarization, the environment. the issues of impact of ukraine is bricks, bank and shanghai cooperation organization. movement occurs. what do you think the impact of ukraine will be on us economies?

things action basically with you. i think, i mean there are a number of the states, i think effects that are worth tracing what is, as you suggested, there is a good deal more talk now about the dollarization there used to be, i think, largely going to the fact that a number of the britain, nations and other nations as well, are trying to kind of get out from under the us dollar as the sort of principal trans national currency. and of course, the reason for that in turn is that the role of the dollar in the global economy enables us to exert a good deal of leverage through a sanctioning activity of a kind. of course, it's been fairly active over the last year. there is, however, one possible sort of itch to that, that might stand in the way and i think, but it's going to do as far as the brits in particular, china to essentially make some sort of so called hard choices as they say here in the u. s, so the thing about the dollars global role is that it's actually been in a certain sense helpful to china and other economies whose growth model has been an

export land growth model. the reason being that the dollar is, of course, over valued in virtue of its role in the global economy. and that of course, makes american exports more expensive than they would otherwise be. and it makes other nations exports less expensive to americans. at least they would otherwise be, and that's course why the u. s. has been incurring current account deficits of large magnitudes over the past decades. however, we also know right from the words of president g, himself and from other bricks leaders, that they are engaged in efforts to sort of move off of export and growth strategies in the move more towards domestic demand generated grow strategies. and in so far as they succeed in doing that, the idea of the coupling from a dollar or at least lessening their dollar dependence, will become much more realistic to, to put into practice. yes, some people estimate that china won't even be able to satisfy domestic demand. and

as regards planning, actually since you write so much about planning and your desire for planning actually in the united states, how can companies is how these daysia and the global south plan given this sanction regime that you allude to changing every other day. i mean, they say japanese electronic firms don't know how to plan to make things given that they don't know when the next chinese chip is going to be sanctioned. yeah, that's a good point. i mean, i think the key for china and physicians that would like to be engaged in a real key is to sort of heighten domestic autonomy, you might say, or something approaching on tarkey writers self sufficiency when it comes to the capacity either to produce most or all of what you need right there at home, or to be engaged in tight trade relations with other nations that can supply whatever needs are not able to satisfy domestically or for domestic production,

domestic, sublime. so if you had a training block warm, say, between china, russia, maybe some other bricks, members, maybe all the other brakes members and maybe a few other nations. it's highly likely that you would actually have the makings of a kind of all tarkey within that particular trading block. as we know, russia has vast natural resources as well as a great deal of technical know how we also know, of course, that africa is very resource rich and china in particular. but also russia have been expanding their trade relations and their economic relations with africa. and, you know, between africa, russia and china, it would seem to me that you've got the same sort of diversity of resource availability. and maybe even a greater degree of diversity of resource availability and productive capacity than you have say, in north america or in europe. as a whole, so if a block of some sort of form among those countries, they would be simply no need for them to rely on the dollar or to be dollar

dependence. and thus they would be no real danger. opposed to them by dollar related sanctions, but everything, of course, rides on whether they can actually do that. they've of course, the resource capacity to do all of that. and they've got the productive capacity gets to say, to technical know how to do all of the real key is going to be whether they have the sort of political capacity to do it. i don't, i mean you advise ro qana, elizabeth warren a oh see the progressive gorgeous. what do they say when you say things like you've just said to me, because they all voted for more military, a to ukraine, a will see voted $40000000000.00 and military a. i mean, they've turned around the 1.3 trillion spending bill from 2018 that specifically said the as all regiment with their not c ties could be one of the ones that being sanctioned in effect. what did they say to you when you say, look, some of these policies may unite and make the u. s. declining

basically the context in which subjects that kind of come up when i'm talking with these, these legislators is a little bit different than the current context that you and i are talking about these things in connection with the. so in general, when i talking to american policymakers, progressive legislators, i'm talking more about the need for a kind of re diversification. and a re, let's say autonomy or all harpy, restoring set of policies for the american economy. right. i mean, the us itself used to have a very diversified economy and it used to be able to produce most of what it needed for itself. and in fact, it was the out sort of thing that was kind of carried on by capital here in the u. s, sort of essentially seeing lower wage labor abroad. they're brought about the sort of hollowing out to be american economy. so when i talk to legislators here, i say, you know, actually

a certain degree or greater to be about on the part of non american economies. and closer relations among non american economies, that would accompany a sort of real conversation of the american economy would actually be good for everybody. it would be good for the world itself, right? there's a great deal of dysfunction in the relations between the u. s. and other economies worldwide, and part of, i think restoring health is restoring a certain degree of self sufficiency to all of the economies. or, you know, reasonably size trading blocks worldwide. and in that context, i think they're quite receptive to what i'm suggesting. we haven't, i haven't talked with any of these legislators about the current war itself or about us sanctions or anything like that that, that i think all of their boats in that connection have to be sort of understood in relation to the politics of washington. and that's just not something that i'm very much engaged in, but there's something connected there because of course, that money is being recycled through these big multinational weapons companies.

and you want money to go into infrastructure and debt. you want to create that order key that you, you speak of. i mean, i don't know where to start or whether to be ironic about joe biden, talking about rail links on the east coast of the united states when i'm talking to you from dubai. and the whole of the middle east is engaged in massive solar projects. china to the east to this studio is, is, i mean, you can't underestimate the amount that they're working on or whether president lewis stopping of all the deforestation in the amazon. what happy with joe biden, so little a railway link he's talking about on the east coast. well, i'm somewhat happy with it. of course, i'm happier about it because it's part of a much larger package of initiatives that you'll be pursuing. it might be worth noting in this connection the part of while i'm not really engaged in the politics

of washington. one thing i am aware of is that there is a kind of growing readiness from some republicans to sort of join forces with certain democrats on various infrastructure bills, various productive renewal type bills and package. a major piece of legislation that i crafted for roadrunner on the one hand and mark rubio is a republican in the senate, on the other hand, is devoted specifically to that. and we're getting republican support for that. but here's where the war comes into. this got the war, but at least defense spending. one way to get republicans on board with restoration of americans, productive capacity. both in and infrastructural sense and an industrial sense is by pointing out to them that a country that loses its industrial capacity in its productive capacity becomes much weaker. right? than an economy that has a robust productive capacity. and so there's the sort of appeal that you have to make to these republic with national security or defense really, you know,

the tight rope. and that presents to us progressives, of course, is, you know, you don't want in any way to be encouraging militarism or imperialism. or adventure ism of the times that the u. s. is engaging a lot in recent decades to its own detriment. but at the same time, you want to keep republicans interested in productive capacity. and the only way, at least initially to get their attention on that is to sort of point out the national security significance in fairness, in fantasy professor, it's the republicans, a few republicans voted against these tens of billions was $66000000000.00 approved by congress. last year, i don't know how many billions of public money it was. republicans anti war in ukraine. republicans known the only a few that the great majority, the great bulk of republicans, are still very much very pro war, very pro defense, very pro national security, even g to west. there's just a smaller part of marginal group of republicans who in voting against the war

against defense expenditures. well, i mean, it's hard. i didn't really kind of say, you know what we should do. we should take the stuff where we're selling the saudis, and obviously saudi arabia, in the u, a refusing biden's calls to increase oil production, which is what washington white has wanted and broke on was used to be going ahead with the yeah, let's punish these countries when lowering prices an increasing production. and this is all in the context of the perez reforms of the democrats to be able to get lobbying from fossil fuel companies. i mean, i, i don't think that congress congressman kind of can be want to gather with those folks who want to penalize saudi arabia. i mean, send the on from that to your grain. does the landscape, which is what ro connor was tracing. yeah, i think, well, there's a long standing of course, concert on the part of many democrats with those sort of ongoing support that we've

been giving to the current saudi regime. and there's kind of growing concerned among some of the more progressive democrats about the sort of support that's being went to the more right wing elements because really government as well. and of course, as we know right, the more right mean element of the israeli government are putting out feelers to and looking to sort of establish some kind of alliance with saudi arabia itself. so they don't think they don't see the relevance of the green new deal. i mean, just forgetting the fossil fuel emissions of the us military, which are unfathomable, in terms of how much will these aircraft carriers and miss up production to do what they do to the environment. they don't see that the exploitation of l. n. g gas refracting jo biden's obsession with racking is dragged as cool it sending it to europe and the cost of that to the environment. none of the progressive caucus understand, i don't think it's true actually. i think they do see the relevance and i think what they're doing is they're thinking in terms of sequencing, right? they're all pushing, they're all, all in or

a complete transition to renewables. but they also recognize that that's going to take about 5 to 7 years out at the least, and maybe up to a decade. and so they're trying to keep energy prices down during that transition precisely because when energy prices go up, that gives aid and comfort to republicans who are trying to sort of quash the move toward a green economy and trying to expand fracking and other things. that's where you're in the u. s. i don't, by the way, see any obsession on job biden's part with ranking. i do see an obsession of the mansion who joe biden has to kind of keep, you know, happy in order to keep him on board with various pieces of legislation. but i think that buying himself at this point is all in with agreeing transition. there's simply a recognition that takes a while and the best way to, you know, kind of cheat that transition underway is to take away the strength that some republicans have when energy prices go up. professor robert hawkins beulah more from the advisor to alexandria, cause your quote asthma, elizabeth warren, after this break. ah

right now a bundle of them. i bet them number. oh, those are those did you do not actually show switch him. you please go to send this to lucia. your go to just the yes you are you, you have good luck. i thought a miracle. nobody was here. ah

ah ah, welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the edward coronel, professor of law and adviser to alexander, causing cortez and elizabeth warren. professor robert hawk it as an advisor to these progressive circle, the icons of the, i don't know, m s, m b, c. not cnn. so much like elizabeth warren and ro, connor and so on. clearly you see them as making a difference and that there is

a clear difference between the 2. but what do you make a fan of the criticisms from the left, which they know the fact that they are actively supporting the war spending trillions of public money while 40000000 go hungry. i know it's been said that you can find a bridge and i know you're right about infrastructure and the need for more bridges . you can find a bridge in the united states without someone sleeping under it. none of these progressive caucus people tried to put medicare and some kind of health care system into the massive spending bills there being possibly huge jumble of spending bills . i made it as a, in terms of a made it of, i don't, i don't know of anybody who we claim that are actively supporting any of this stuff . people like ro and people i k o c will vote in favor of legislation that there are sort of massive majorities, alas, in congress. but when you, if you actually follow a osi intermedia,

your answers are instagram posts or whatever. or people are o'connor, they're all talking about renewed deal transformation. they're all talking about restoration of american productive capacity. restoration, middle class, building jobs, restoration or bringing about free health care and free hire, entry level education, all americans. that's what they're actively questioning and actively supporting. and anytime they happen to join the democrats to vote in favor of some other legislation that people like you were, i might be less inclined to support. they're doing that largely by way of sort of going along to get along in order to avoid having to fight over that. so i understand they retracted the letter o'connor, and i see that they tried to school for negotiations. a received from clips on youtube got walk around without being shouted. heck had saying that you're going to start world war 3. what is the role and you've been around, you know, you worked with your i, m f. you, as well as being a scholar,

would sit like the role of law being by big companies to destroy and attack in effect, your scholar. he. we know that, as i said, don perez and 2018 permitted fossil fuel lobbying to democrats. is it is a problem here that so many of the initiatives you want to happen, they will, they are all going to happen because your initiatives are aimed at making the united states more equitable. and always to have those who are very rich and low being clearly go want to give away their money. well that's of course the struggle, right? yes, the, the efforts of the lobbyists, the efforts of the various sectional interests that pain are higher on them and paint the lobbyist are massive. and of course as you know, own most of the industry media here in the u. s. as well. so they tend to not only to lobby directly, various members of congress,

but they also shape the message and shape or determine the framing of the public discourse as conducted over most of the mean sort of social media sites and media sites. and that's of course, right, and this is nothing new, and this is not surprising, right? karl marx wrote almost 2 centuries ago at this point about how that's how it works, right? the particular class interests tend to purchase and dominate most of the really institutions of the culture as well as most of the institutions of the all of the intend to make the job of those who are trying to fight for some kind of change. all of them were difficult, but be that as it may, we keep, we persist and we every now and then have significant victories. i think we're probably headed for a sort of a polar shift or us a significant change of this sort of new deal magnitude. we're not there yet, but i think we're getting there. and certainly the sorts of calamities that are

being brought on by the right wingers are making our job a lot easier, frankly, is a lot easier to appeal to folks when you have to do is sort of point to what's happening around them to make your case which is what we do well, tucker carlson on fox news news, tramping peace negotiations rather than war. i don't know when you mentioned the media, how many televisions that you get through. i don't know whether you destroy them in the debt. ceiling is the issue. congresspeople then reflected, mirrored by august in order for mainstream circle, mainstream media over there that is owned by 6 companies, just explained to his way. it's all nonsense in the main what we're hearing about the dead ceiling. this feeling is nonsense for a very straightforward reason. it's rooted in an old anatomy, the congress 19 that was passed in 1970 the liberty that that particular act was passed at a time when the president was the only government official who actually formulated

a budget. congress essentially conferred a great deal of budgetary discretion on the president in those days. and so the debt ceiling that was put into about liberty bond at which of course, was inactive during the time that the u. s. was spending a great deal more than it had previously done in preparation for the world war. one mobile is ation was a way for congress to sort of remind the president that it had some kind of oversight role. all of that change trying to mentally, almost 50 years ago in 1974. when congress passed a new, an accident, which essentially you totally changed the budgetary or the budget making regime here in the us, ever since 974. congress itself has formulated the budget, and that budget is a legal inaccurate every year that it's passed. it's a legal anatomy and it includes not only all the expenditures, the federal government, but all the revenue raising and all the methods of revenue raising, including taxation and bond issuance id debt undertaking. and so in effect, the budget is its own dec ceilings. so all these journalists a stupid,

then i'm not even talking to people, you know, either, either they're stupid or they're wilfully ignoring this because they enjoyed the theater. it's hard to know why they're doing this. i can see where the politicians do it. they seem to enjoy the circus, right. and they like to grandstand and this gives them a great opportunity to grandstand on both sides. right. but i don't understand why journalists don't point this out because it's fairly straightforward. it's not particularly arcane or recondite or difficult to understand, right. it's very straightforward. it's been 1974 law supersedes the 1917 law. and in consequence, the budget is its own debt ceiling. that's the you made that point very, very clearly. do you find yourself triangulating on the green? you deal with these people on, on the hill that again you, you advise eminent progressives as they don't. why some sell out by others.

do you get triangulate between green wash? quite a bit. we had no less than an advisor to now king charles the 3rd on going underground people can look up the interview and rumble. he was horrified. he told us that it was the whole thing. the big corporations are basically just lying, and i presume he king charles knows what he's been told in britain that he kind of a talk about it. is that why you'll hear that sometimes something that you says that you've written it in a vague enough way that those who are powerful in those corporate lobby's actually think what you are saying something different can make money out of it. i haven't experienced that yet. if it's happening, i'm not aware of it and i would like to be made aware of and it is happening. but happily thus far, i haven't been made aware of any such thing. i'm no, no, i don't know of any such. it might be partly because my role is fairly limited, right? essentially what i'll do is provided by policy matters to certain progressive congress members if they want, if they asked me or if they want to know. and then they'll just sort of focus on

that. and i focus on the merits of the thing and only to a very minimal degree on the politics. like if a choice of word looks less likely to raise red flags and the eyes of some republican congress. members, i might choose a different word, but essentially i just sort of work on the merits of these things and don't pay that much attention to the public discussion about them or how various other politicians might be using them. i know that i've seen myself, you know, sort of caricature to airbus by right wing media. and that usually just is more amusing than anything else. well, i should just finish on crypto currency because you, we started on sanctions and you've written that. you're not that enamored by, by it all, but actually crypto argue be, i mean, devise a one of the centers of crypto as being an amazing method for companies and individuals to get round these us sanctions and allow free trade to occur across

the global south. you think crypto is on the way out? you know, you don't think it as a future. i think crypto has a future within very small circles, but crypto is not going to become a beach reform of currency. and i think it's going to go away and the old wildcat bank notes that used to be the primary form of paper currency here in the u. s. and the 1900 century. and what happened was, was every bank issued its own paper currency, all the people who spent paper currency had to use all these different paper currency, some of which were discounted, a great deal relative to face value, others which were discounted less. they constantly fluctuated wildly and value so forth. there were just lots of them the same with us, but as soon as the us issued its own paper dollar, notice the green back during the civil war. all of that stuff sort of went by the wayside for the most part and the only people who retained or kept using those currencies were relatively small circles. i think when the fed begins issuing a digital dollar, maybe a little dock, a plan that i put before it over the last 5 years. maybe it won't. but whenever it

does, once it does that, i think wildcat crypto will go the way of a wildcat bank. no, what will the point? what will the point be if the buddy sanctions sees a type sanctions is applied to syria? say, i replied across the global south is latin america. africans have these daysia and most eurasia does business with countries, the washington sanctions and has, does it. and obviously incur the wrath of the us sanctions acts and just says, we'll, we'll trade and somebody else will. then we're going, we're back to where we were before, right. that's back to the question whether the dollar will repeat its dominant. i think the dollar real reason it's dawn as precisely or as long as other countries depend on us citizens buying their products for their growth models. but as soon as they become less dependent on american consumer markets or their growth, at that point, the dollar ceases to be a global currency and goes back to be

a national currency, which is what it should have been all law in, which is what it was right before the 1940s. robot hogan. thank you. great, thanks so much. i've been going to be with you. that's for the show will be back next saturday with another brand new episode, but until then you can still keep in touch my role as social media. it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always had to watch out or going underground tv on rumble, dot com to watch new and old episodes going underground. so you right. ah ah ah, i think in the south there is a much a clear understanding of the causes meeting up to this crisis. even though the best and position is that it is an unprovoked i think that wilma, so understand that this is part of the u. s. lead to best strategy for the can team

and a fresh no longer pathway to the containment of china. ah ah, with by the middle of the 19th century, practically, the whole of india had been under the rule of the british empire. the colonial authorities had imposed that heavy death bringing the people into poverty and were exporting natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the provisions of the local population, treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those who cooperated with them. the fact of ignoring the religious beliefs of the hindus led them. you'd never see boys mercenary soldiers serving under the

british crown. the rebellion began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of mirrors, north of india in the form of amusement. the rebels quickly took over daily. the heroic resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal. the colonial authorities dealt with the rebels cruelly thine slaves the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the public. this type of execution was called the devil's with the obliteration of the mutiny resulted in the death of 800000 inhabitants of india. however, the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will for resistance

for dylan, dylan is what's an empirical? one was known for william chris march when the war 3 .