ah, welcome to over 20 years ago, press briefing about the absence of what parts of mass destruction in iraq. you secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld, famously under his clothes about no knowns, unknown knowns, an unknown unknowns. and his point was essentially that we do credit countries were morally justified about assuming the worst about their adversaries. acting accordingly. is this logic still at play in need of confrontation with russia over ukraine? to discuss that? i'm now joined by that have nella time director of the department of geopolitics and international relations at medical university in professor it's good to see you . thank you very much for your time. thank you. not. you know, i'm a big fan of folklore and me. so agenda i rarely get a chance to with, into the conversation, even though i think you would agree with me about modern day and your politics is

all about me making. but with one of your recent articles, you gave me a wonderful opportunity of doing that because you compare this whole crisis in ukraine, you, they are entail the pied piper. can you elaborate them that the look, you know, i'd like to point out that a lot of the policy towards a president wooten and russia seems to be driven by emotion. now i've been here before in libya, for example, there was a complete demonization of work. there was a demonstration of savannah saying, and there, there is now a demonization of russia, as of people and brand brand, the brit and the president of russia. now i've studied president, we're going to some guy study, this is moves. i've also studied the fact that he became more and more disillusion

uh with the west. and it was no surprise to me because we're tracked by my writing your window that i was very clear that germany, the franco german alliance will never allow russia to be a part of europe. never. because what happens when you have russia? these 2 argues out there, they're position so there's never going to happen. so now we find the same play of emotion. and what i'm seeing is present zones gave wants this. he wants that he wants this. basically, he wants to punish russia. i've seen the people of iraq. i've seen others suffer. so in my view of differences, russia is in the end, if not the form was the 2nd form was nuclear. it's half of europe is harper asia. you don't know. we just do like that by thinking it morse

a politic say, want to be concrete, but i'm still with my humble plea of tying into the very town that you mentioned in one of your articles, in that fairy tale. in that article around you compare that ukraine, you that piper who was luring the children all of their homes and all over the cliff to that desks is essentially and you suggest that it is ukraine. that is doing that role with one thing that i don't understand, this analogy is the ukrainian children who are being called on to that. so why do you think the, the ukrainian leadership would be interested in doing that? well, i'd like to say that i had in mind the people following the piper of peer. i mean president zalinski, i admire is the justice i admirers courage. but the reality is,

but he is in my, in my view, in my calculations. and frankly, i always assume that prison warden is what i call a grand master, your politics. and if you're a grandmaster geopolitics, the kind of news that zelinski is making major, who will lead to more and more russia come to moves. and finally, this will escalate into the new year. but as you're going to see tactical nuclear weapons use in my calculation, i put this on record some several weeks ago. more than a month ago. it could be like with, or a story or it could be. and so the baltic states essentially challenging nato to come into the field with a nuclear arms or a nuclear super bow bridges. bridges declare that nothing is north of park, but is that i was talking about i was talking about the countries of neutral

following a prism zelinski into the cliff. he's only a what's the, what would possibly justify that? because if you look at the ukraine from a traditional strategic perspective, there in these geographic location, it could have had been best of both worlds. it could be milking both russia and the last 4 sources. what if you can gain from calling everyone, and you can clear. the fact of the matter is green is essential. if you're talking of a land war, you agree, and bella roost are essential to the security of russia, or the security of the countries or of the rest of europe infused. russia wants to launch a war against them. it is wrong. these countries from these a dual geographic location,

but shuttle or so the geographic war on the surface armies can come through. and this is the point. so one can understand president porter about billers above ukraine and also about central leisure. because in central asia, i happened to believe i happen to go to live, but it's not just, you know, it's not just some of a known or people, but even a good china, but love an interest in this blazing russia from central asia. in this blazing india from central asia, i didn't do anything to prevent this attempt of color with emotion. what prison warden acted, he acted and bellows yet didn't kazora. why? because central asia is also a key element. it's a key element in our security. and what's your security? so he's off to what's happening in metal, the expansion of nato, saying thus far and no further present. now that i think it's important to our

highlight that while russia, as he said it in many of its neighboring countries to provide security, it's not trying to question the sovereignty of those countries. and till this day, i haven't heard officials in russia questioning whether ukraine should remain sober and say, everything they talk about is maintaining such a post, such a military posture that would not be threatening to russia. other than that, those people read to pursue their own said the way they see, well, you're 50, right? and i can say that i have not said that right, that president putin and, and the russian government is imposing any of it. so, i mean, it's views whether it is in central asia or not. so what is your greatest concern? i had hopes that present zalinski when he came to power would understand the logic

that was there in big toyota. which in my view, big day article which and zalinski, are you good in patriots, of young gorge, understood that you need stable relations with russia for a stable ukraine. now unfortunately, if you regard russia as an enemy for the next 100 years, then obviously you need to your grade, which is completely the nato. and that is exactly where their actions are taking this. and again, if i miss you, so this is the point i really did not expect prison zelinski to really make this kind of mistake in going by federal morris and go and various others, especially because his jewish, the jewish community. and i've said this multiple times, i mean did the last tribal, they look community that an extremely admirable community. i don't expected this from him, that he would pursue all of these ukranian zealots who want to believe that you

koreans are not rushing. the russians are somehow different going ukrainians and they go russians, for example, every day, some of them it's irrelevant. who they believe themselves to be. they call themselves allianz. whatever is just the point is that they should not be prostituting that land to present a sizable as read to you and they're in the neighbor. now, i heard you saying another in this conflict in ukraine began because russia understood that america never cease to target russia as an enemy. why do you think that is because having an enemy is an expensive undertaking, i mean, especially an enemy of the size and character of russia. is there any benefit to the united states as a country, perhaps, to the american leads to have russia as others are because the russians and i, you know, lived in this country for many years, a full it's policy. russia has no interest in seeing america, and then i mean,

we are interested in cooperating with them just as he said in his interested to cooperating with the rest of the world. why do you think the american society invested in seeing us as a bad guy or being on bad terms with well look, the fact is that there is a very strong european streak in american security and foreign policy. the good news is that the pentagon, for example, the department of defense, i'm sure they can be very pleased about the, about a lot of the policies and the state department, which is much more european this. and today the white house, which is extremely european. this in a way that trump was not drunk, was a disaster, not always, but he was not a disaster in the sense of being a european who believes that the naval of the world is still europe. but us for 2 years, we have the times. and what we're seeing in some european countries regarding the

well bodies johnson is now in india. i'm sure he's going to give a lot of the professor johnson will give a lot of lectures on your grades were borders doesn't realize that it's not a 100 years ago. and we're not going to listen to the lectures, we're going to do what's good for our own country. so the problem is, this european is group. they don't regard russia somehow as european. now, there are people in russia, st. peter's good book school, which i've talked about with regard themselves as well, european, but i'm sorry, you are not european. and my view, you are russian, which is are you region, you're the only really duration country and the europeans, you got them, you as being asia and the americans were pro european or who are completely, you know, who basically working in the european interest as defined by european lead a european leaders, they forget that the omission is now in the indoor pacific and it needs to change.

but the good news is, a lot of people in washington in paris in london are in bullying are accepting this. so i think this kind of a very harmful policy for the western world will and then my view was in use. let's take a short break and we will return to this discussion after a few moments. ah mm. mm hm. with

western media and politicians are obsessed with the idea of ukraine winning say otherwise than you are maligned, accused of treason can even cancelled ukraine must win trouble is actually about something completely different that has everything to do with weakening russia with

ah, welcome back to was the 1st with have to know that director of the department of geopolitics and international relations at medical university in india, professor before the break, we were talking about various perceptions of this conflict. and before we started, i mentioned this quote by donald rumsfeld, about no, no known unknown known and unknown unknowns. and i wonder if, if you see any of those unknown unknowns already in the american policy, this ripple effect that comes back to her the, you know, the author of the sanctions more than the actual target will look up any, any kind of policy given by a motion, i mean, you may think that, you know,

i don't know. the point is not the accumulation of the job. the point is what you understand from the data. you know, there's something called net assessment. there's something got a 2nd opinion. i mean, in my university, our department, we are completely out on duty outside government. and in that sense, we provide, in a sense, a 2nd opinion, whether people like it or not, or uh, not too many things going on. so as far as you know, this is concerned. now the word, for example, makram say we're talking of, i was wanting a euro from bloody will stop to barriers. well, the reality is what they're really looking for is another privacy. so another boris yeltsin over show and they're waiting for that and they're expected. but this particular conflict would lead to a change in regime and do one more,

boris yeltsin coming up. that's what they're looking for. in our case, i can tell you, we are very clear that the security of the all asia as to look up the yes, by north america, but asian countries. and we believe north america is a corporate continental country. like russia is a bike, mental country. no, north america is south american, it's asian, it's african. it's also european. and i was same readers book. my wife and i have been there. we had a lovely reason. we're not saying i'm not knocking st. petersburg. not knocking modern europeans. they are very modern, very, and they understand the, well, i'm only talking of people who are living in the bus because they still remember too much of the school textbooks, which in my view, celebrate all of your god as one great poem, a do wonderful story of the whole of mine and you actually need here

a question because, you know, when people take decisions concerning whole countries or the whole world, one would assume that they are not taking those decisions on the women as well as western europe. have some of the think tank and numbers per capita. i mean, they're more thing times them universities, perhaps in america. and yet the quality of strategic decisions that success american ministration have taken over the last 20 years. a, you know, it's, it's very questionable isn't insurance is a lack of strategic logic or is it something that we hear and also simply cannot understand because you mentioned the conflicts in syria in libya, before you mentioned their policies in south asia. and it's hard to understand what the leader is in washington and trying to, to actually pursue the look is what i'm saying. you have

a whole lot of data and then you come to different conclusions. i'm sure the data indicated that russia was looking at capturing gear. i don't believe that. that's mr. dr. you got to the capital. i'm not entirely sure to listen. i think the russians are one line, i think about one 3rd of you, frankly, will now effectively be separated and the balance would be demilitarized and geared of elements who are rows of it. you know, i think the point is to resume, but now you're talking to a person who repeatedly mr. washington to warn about the taliban hosting a lot of nasty people right through the clinton billiard and about a month and a half before $911.00. and frankly, i don't say we will. i mean, i was, i was, i mean, certainly nobody took us,

it took me seriously that this is going to happen. oh, you know, we're not going to somebody not about, well, you know, you're fine. you know, we want to go to it, then it will be a disaster. if you allow control. i was happy with the numbers in that to go. but then you appoint an american administrator and all over the place in american flags . the rockies are very broad. people, livia, gadhafi was frankly, oh, very nasty man in this point, but the same time be up in my case. i've won that after him. you love a deluge of refugees coming to europe, coming to europe from syria. and again in sylvia. i mean, to sit here in this problem was going on. i mean, again, girlfriend of india, but we'll continue to recognize bush out because we believed many of the people supported by the united states and by the rest of nato, were people who were one day,

i've seen that the same people who are all guys on isis up in a couple of weeks, they go back and reconsider like, get replenished, get money. and then after a few weeks, this look back into being ok then isis. all this has been happening. so this is not the 1st time that her middle is making a horrible mistake. now speaking about consequences of those decisions. i think one of the things that separates these conflicts from all the others is that american population at home can already in the pinch of sanctions because prices are going on. there is an interest in fuel prices. there are some of the price increases. do you think the american populace, the american democracy, in this case because people are affected, the thing it can affect the policy of the white house, or is it still the same old game that you know,

a few people who know nothing but pretend that they know everything, well, i continue making decisions not only for the american people, but for the rest of the world as well as news seen sanctions being implemented on a country at such roggette speed. you know, other, i go your, what are the sanctions in advance, and then you're going to do that all of this plan. i don't believe that or you're just implementing sanction of the sanction thinking the next installment will finish your prison and will make the russian people rushed to the streets and it, you know, i think that 2nd is more likely. but the fact is, is having an impact boarwood, and it's having a big impact on europe and united states. my own calculation and guesses within about $16.00 to $17.00 weeks was there is going to be an enormous low back

from this floor. and people are going to identify the sanctions as being responsible. and frankly, i don't think they care where you're going is whether it's with china or with russia or with all of india, but they do care about their daily lives. so most 15 or 16 weeks before this immense blowback and it's already happening on a large scale. what is just not being reported. i'm surprised that my friends in all these big papers. they seem to suspend it, believe. and they seem to be accepting whatever not, not the bible, but the people who are giving the, i mean, we're, let's say, associates a white paper. they really do need to feel united states united states and they don't treat their media. and i'm sorry to see my friends in the media. i've completely suspended, believe in the reporting. let's talk about china because you mentioned in the, one of the article that the chinese are one of the biggest is from the russian

ukrainian conflict. why do you think that is? well, the reality is that if this conflict intensifies and if there is a kind of conflict nuclear or non nuclear between a joint, russia for the next generation, the attention of the united states, the european europe in the segment, and the european countries will be on russia and they will dig their, i all china. now the reality is we need the united states in asia. we need the europeans in asia because we need to have a free over the pacific and who our country that is it publicly claiming 90 percent of the of the south china sea for example. and this is, i mean, completely astonishing that they're claiming this. now in our case for example,

for the 1st time since the 1980s, all across, not just india, but africa, latin america. you are seeing a dialogue with was the rest. which again, is not true because western people are not what their leaders are. but now in india, for example, i mean, you know, our prime minister is very focused on media. you have a play, you have a president who's, you know, he does things that you like or don't, or we don't like. he's very focused on what he believes is the russian interest. and we and the prime minister look what is called that he was talk gen, i got to go. he's also never got to go to your job or, or and there is only percent, alicia, it's also russia because i think that prime minister already predicted this kind of a breakdown of relations between russia and the west. and i want to ask

a simple question, bureau, what country, when europeans are spending more than we spend in, in the, in a few, in an hour or 2 hours to buy russian island guess. why do you want a book entry to deny it? russian, oil and gas, why do you want us to look to be even better? well, perhaps a white man said, i, well, it's just my opinion. but can i ask you here? because we are running out of time. you said we need europe and america in asia to, you know, solve our various security challenges and having seen was american contribution to the european security has been, i mean, they literally brought russia and europe on the brink of a nuclear conflict. i mean, there is a hot conflict now raging in the, in the middle of europe. do you really see that we need that kind of expertise to

help solve in difficulties, let's say with china or pakistan. can we do it regionally in a matter that would try to satisfy all parties? do you really believe that the americans or the europeans for that matter, have the best interest of age in mind when they try to moderate various security issues? look, you know, you'd be surprised at the number of indian americans or ethnic indians or working in the high tech industries. united states is a very, very large number. the last i checked about 1300000 is probably much more about just indians. and we have about sued nearly 6000000 ethnic indians who are in the united states. the european union is a very short sighted. they don't mind somebody else being settling in in europe and

didn't put it under the social facilities, was, frankly, was productivity. really much less than a software programmer or an engineer or a doctor from jen. i either about like now but they're being short sighted again. i'm not going to all the races. they're being shot say, but you know, i just want to say on technology, for example, there's only a link between india and united states is not only made by go, it's a link made by luella when i went to lower levels by citizens, by companies, by day well, tech companies now, for example, an alumnis of my university. so didn't a lot is that you all microsoft, you have another indian in, i mean both these people living in the passport holders. i mean, you know, you have some joy in google and they just one of thousands and thousands of indians in the top position. so we haven't organically already and we need that organically

. secondly, we are united in wanting lee albany inclusive in the pacific bureau wanted in dog pacific, in which one country will dictate who can come in and look a lot common, especially a country that is in rated us multiple times and cost us last during are going to the soldiers last year. ok, well, we have to leave it there even though there any more questions to be asked. but thank you very much for now for sharing your insights. thank you. and i'd like to say, i'm with russia and mary stay on the few occasions. my wife and i have been in russia really totally enjoyed. god bless you and god bless the russia india i totally fully enjoy your pray for the world and for a little piece or thank you for watching hope to see you again next week

with . mm ah ah, a a

with you, a secretary of state, those about promoting freedom of speech in america. despite criticism for banning opposing now, it has india prime minister continues his to have europe to mid ongoing western pressure on new delhi to drop its neutrality over the warn ukraine and joined the corrupting sanctions against russia. and cracks appear in european society of military support for kids as hundreds of bulgarians protest against weapons supplies to ukraine. if you know us is that we want to ban approved the bulgarian territory be used for hitting either of both countries of the war. one of the government's favorite phrases as they cannot stay.