i. wonder if people in the central russian city to execution of a murder suspect offer an on year old girl is found strangled. and. killed or intensifies following more than a week of unrest. turning up the heat on joe biden and. documents he says reveal corruption. in the us presidential hopeful. a true legend. who conducted the.

local time with the latest headlines when i'm a farmer joining us in the studio. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle on this edition of cross talk we demystify syria's kurds almost all of the criticism launched against syria policy is not rooted in facts actually that criticism is driven by false narratives and the inability to admit the international proxy war to overthrow the damascus government has failed the sooner all american troops leave syria the better for syria and the region.

talking syria i'm joined by my guess omar well coffin u.k. he is founder and director of the good osis a think tank in britain that focuses on syria and the middle east in beirut we have more awesome and she is an academic and journalist and in dublin we cross the mike rather he is coeditor of b s news dot info right across cycles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it let's go to beirut 1st you know i read the reactions very closely to try for a partial withdrawal i mean he tried it before and he failed and now he's done it again in lieu of the another illegal and the invasion of syria this time by turkey i mean i was just aghast on that characterization of what's going on in syria right now and western audiences have been given so much to sim from ation and false narratives it's very difficult for them to even understand what's going on except for war must go on endless war and i've been

a critic of donald trump for many things but this is the right decision it was the right decision a year ago go ahead in beirut. definitely and i'd like to remind the audience that throughout this campaign before he became president he was always talking about pulling out the troops especially from syria where his narrative back then before before he became president was actually in there to have that was different that what we have heard of it was a narrative of who created isis why is isis there to begin with the role of turkey in bringing in isis to syria why should u.s. troops go to syria and the start of all of this he was not supporting this he was actually put this on the shoulders of barack obama being a disastrous u.s. foreign policy what he's doing right now is actually just going back to his previous as a president to his campaigning days he's keeping promise of pulling out troops from war zones that are not bringing any benefit for the u.s. foreign policy or for troops for that matter and what he's doing is actually

brokered a deal with turkey which has been going on for a while now we were just seeing the fruits of this deal right now but again you are via the public is is misinformed in the west and this is why they are very much in shock as to why don't trump will put out the troops well in fact trump is doing a great deal of help for. the syrians to begin with for the syrians who have been battered by the war against some of the global war against them it would be great of help for this year in government which the liberals and the democrats would not like to hear yeah back in the u.s. but it would definitely mean more maneuvering for better. putting out a better constitution for political resolutions for syria and this will definitely actually we do see as the elevation of turkey which is so many bad there is so at the end of the day this will just put more pressure on turkey and both of them to talk to syria there are so many forces against peace it's just remarkable this entire complicated amar let me go to you i mean what i find so paradoxical and

quite bizarre to be honest with you is that the very thought of taking troops out of syria but it's never mentioned that there are there are you legally under international law i mean it's never that that narrative is never mentioned and plus it's never explained why they were there at all go ahead mark. well the legal basis for their presence in syria are pretty much similar to the legal basis of their presence or their invasion of iraq exactly exactly 0 zilch there is nothing this is a group of nations who saw fit to invade another country for whatever reason at the time they wish to have and the end of the day one could argue that the congress haven't even indorsed such an invasion let alone the united nations the only way this could have been legitimate was for the united states to acknowledge the stomach state officially and then dash to carry out an attack on the united states then the united states would be able to come back and say we've been attacked by

these people just like what happened in afghanistan but in syria never there is no legal basis they're there to create an abnormality that would create a problem for future generations. in order for them perhaps to find it easy to intervene in this part of the world you know to to manage such crises you know mike i mean the way that i look at the u.s. role in syria from the very beginning is just being a spoiler i mean this working for the combination of countries and proxies and all this to get the outcome they want which was a pipe dream from the very very beginning and it with their will to complete withdrawal of american troops there that forces forces on the ground to start making diplomatic moves the united states puts it into a deep freeze and that is intentional i think ok they don't want outcomes they can't control that hubris mike. i mean it's only worth of course u.s.

troops. are still very early every summer so the start of july. which is sort of their arses. you know they're not there they seem to be. rolled. to. the last night. so you had the look they have left what they've done is they've moved. 30 starts. bombing campaign and it's the dogs that already and just this week we're seeing turkey actually commit war crimes as. civilian infrastructure including water treatment and pumping stations. facilities. this has the potential to affect at least 2000000000 people in the answer so this is a disaster waiting to happen the leader not even touching this yet so well a little bit who knows they just keep talking about the plight of the victims and the victimhood of the church which is complete nonsense and the whole the whole narrative of russia is completely wrong the chance that the why do journalists how

did all aggression pact with the ambassadors in $24.00 they really don't matter still is the american state and start giving them weapons and they're the evil the would be joe you've lost control on the ground and they can't really do the deal to the rest but in money land too late because it just may be too late because that opportunity was out there from the very beginning virtually the very beginning of this proxy war that it was forced upon syria from the outside here marwan let me let me give a hypothetical because people watch this program and say we're all one sided ok so i'm going to throw a wrench in the works here what is what do we hear in western media this benefits putin this benefits iran how do you react to that because they never talk about what benefits the syrian people but that's beside the point go ahead and they wrote exactly and it's it's laughable it's definitely and it's laughable because most of the people who are talking about this specially in the western media who is anti

trungpa and anti syria to begin with talks about it without even mentioning where syria is on the public people don't even know where syria is on the love they don't know what has been happening for the past 8 years they don't know that the syrian arab army along with its allies has been eliminated isis they think that it is really the u.s. that. the isis is laughable i mean i join conferences for all across the world in europe and eastern asia and africa when i talk to people and i give them facts when i show them videos and numbers they are flabbergasted because they have never seen this the mainstream media is working towards misinforming the public hence making policy is according to this misinformation that would only target the syrians and target the syrian government and institutions the issue with what's happening right now is only labeling turkey as a war criminal because as targeting the white b.g. but at the time when we should talk it on both sides at the time when turkey with was actually targeting. isis or targeting other ethnic groups we never we never

heard about when turkey targeted isis mind lee in 20122013 we never heard of all the ethnic cleansing syrians not only kurds now turkey is also doing an ethnic cleansing for assyrians from the southern from the northern part we never heard about turkey's role to give money and support and finances and weapons to the us had to have had a shot in live and the role that of just last month they closed the bubble how our border in the face of these fighters they have no idea what i'm talking about they don't already know maher are you don't you know why val shall not speak badly of a nato ally that's why it happens here. gets a free pass for all of its bad behavior in the region m r let me go back to you i mean. now is the kurds a big no no and. they would know what occurred if it hit him in the face but that's beyond the point again because of what the media coverage here well you know what's what's very interesting to me is that what is what is in the minds of the deep

state here i mean if you leave syria it's the domino for one side gone falls the rest of asia goes i mean is this the thinking that's coming here about withdrawing 2000 troops because that sends a signal of a retreat from the region which would be a bad idea go ahead on mars. well i would i would disagree slightly with you both of you and i will because actually the american forces were there they didn't go into syria to save the syrian people whatever it is they win specifically to counter putin and iran that's exactly so that they're not really lying are they so in a sense it's to come to russian influence that's what they think the point of the matter is find new allies in the kurds problem up and so on and so forth so it is natural through such circles of decision makers in washington to view such a withdrawal to be small gain or 8 here at home are let me say that means they would be and let me stay with you m.r.

i mean so good let's get this straight here ok so i'm going to use rather crude terms here but i mean the kurds were a tool they were a tool for us and it's intervention into syria they were took a flood so i'm now out of it now but being a tool now we have to protect their civil and human rights and give them a state and pay for this and stay forever and constantly create cunt chaos in syria i mean that's what they're selling in western media nobody forced the kurds to do this nobody forced in the take the money no one took the boys in the take the arms no one forced them to take the training here mike let me go to you last 40 seconds on this part of the program go ahead 30 seconds. they're going to. look like they're still serious all of this is. syrian government or syrian people are very. serious but. why did.

the basque used to be. back when this all started president assad did offer 300000 . all citizens so i think the voters there is time for that for that relationship. to come back together again but if that is their only hope they say that sure it's ok you have heard. they have to mask just one point whether that's still the case with their latest thing or i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on syria stay with r.t. . the swarms blood of them so much. good us who was before.

much of those who heard the preview must never see him we will. we will we're going to. move. move. move show didn't look beautiful i mean it's a good look or a good. move slow most of these girls will give you films for go go go. go go to shows so look but look you just seem you belong here to show your story to actually go. to starbucks to. get to meet until it was the middle of the most dates you look at is it's. just not a chance to just meet the mashed old truck stop the president complete control his project until.

we have producers to go in this way to snap them up when you look as good as the girls are with you for your support just to go sure station shouldn't for you should cook door for the one who's doing the design. the world is driven by a dream shaped. thing . we dare to ask.

welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle trenchant we're discussing syria. let's go back tomorrow and in beirut you know every time i look at a country that takes a military offensive against another i always have one question what does it mean to win if you're willing to initiate hostilities what is the definition of victory . unfortunately for the last 25 years i haven't asked that question in washington ok i'm trying to think of what's going on with ankara here what is victory for turkey and now nato ally in its invasion of northern syria what is it a to do and when can it's a good one go ahead. primarily to ethnically cleans the area from the people living there whether they are arabs whether they are syrians or if they are kurds possibly because or majorly because turkey sees the white peachey as an extension of the pay

cut and the kurds who are fighting with the opposition position inside of turkey they just see the white p.g. in syria an extension for these. groups that are by the way listed by the u.s. as a terrorist organization so they see that the u.s. is being 2 sided here standing with the white beach you are supposed to be also terrorist as the p.k. . but the 1st thing that they want to see is to create some sort of a safe zone in the in the northern part of syria that goes from men bush goes through to the of the other events. in the safe to say for who. say you get to save zone and then for them and for turkey or turkey not not for not for syria definitely and at the end of the day they would say look we are trying to save the make this this piece of land saves on for us for our national security therefore we can station here we can be an occupying force but later on the planet and begun to bring in $1800000.00 refugees he was he's willing to give them nationalities he

wants distinction them and this saves on therefore by all means it will become a turkish learned ok well that turned into them are you know but nobody did consult to damascus about this did they well that have been so right i mean what would be the neighbor to find is really fascinating because they have the narrative is there and they never and the 2nd half so if american troops leave syria they were abandoning the turks quote unquote and they will be slaughtered but they never say who's going to flock to them but don't really make the admission that it's assad that's going to slaughter them it could be the turks but they don't mention it because turkey is a nato ally i mean it's a half the narrative there and it could be and i know a lot of but i know a lot of average americans they scratch their head every time they hear this is i what what what why are we there the 1st place kurds and ever heard of them why do we help them i mean this is what happens here but not for the foreign policy blah but because for many reasons i've already mentioned go ahead amar go ahead. over the kurds are pretty much syrian citizens but the americans were in there for their

benefits right for their they were there for their own benefits they were using the kurds probably propping them up in order to gain influence and create some problem at the end of the day they couldn't i would argue that they couldn't really care less how the kurds are going to fare after an american withdrawal all they want to have is probably turkey gets whatever it wants in this particular save zone what turkey probably wants is even if they don't take that land into turkey they would probably put some immigrants against their will i would argue as well because nobody wants to leave istanbul and live in a desert. and then at the end of the day they might think the turks that is that we have got people inside syria who would vote the way we want them to vote so at the end of the day this is also a political or real political be oriented towards the upcoming political process and so on and so forth kurds nobody gives a damn at the end of the day the americans think turkey might have gone too close

to russia let us remember that part of what happened in the past 4 or 5 years is that a lot of american allies in the region kept going to moscow more they went to washington several people like turkey for example or some nations are actually finding more accords with moscow than with washington and what it could argue as well this accords with washington so that is a little bit troubling so one could argue that this is the reason why they given the turks this bit of leeway but they surely do not want the syrian army to go back . and take whatever piece of land that is now being occupied by the americans or their proxies so you know at the end of the day whether this few more schism in that area arabs against kurds the americans couldn't care less in fact one could argue that the only reason why die could go back there is because it's already made that arabs disenchanted with way too much kurdish power might want to organize the

japs or reorganize themselves and fight against that so in a sense the american presence there is actually i would argue what he's feeling isis i agree with you completely ok if you leave you don't give them a reason to exist there at least here you know it might mean the interesting thing is here is that let's take a look at the damascus point of view here here here where the arrow of your neighbor is carving up the northern part of your country here and you're supposed to sit there and watch once the americans do leave the arab the syrian army will take over the area where the united states is quote unquote policing occupying wasting time whatever. then they're going to turn their eyes ok the interesting thing is good i'm really glad that i brought up going to moscow because it's going to be loud for off and his team of diplomats are going to have to untie this not all again ok because this invasion and colonization is an untenable proposition it's not going to work ok it's not going to work and at the end of the

day syria has a right to would solve and it will get its own land back it's only a matter of time they've they've had they have the patience they have the. the professionalism now that they didn't have back in 2011 and they have international support though you wouldn't read that in the new york times or to c.n.n. go ahead mike. seriously. every country. free money. it will be over and it said as we said earlier that they. still act as get involved in something else some other major catastrophe i think i'd be both pretty speeches when it comes to this little strip of land 34 meters deep maybe mine an extension 50 kilometers deep from. i think the plan for turkey in the victory for city would be less populated that with progress a good honest and maybe in

a couple years will appeal to the un and oversee a referendum and then that will become bad seeds absolutely since that is the turkish plan i think with regards to brics this is the american plan actually i hold completely responsible for this so the attempt to attempt to destroy syria i don't i don't think they have a plan they wage war and create chaos and so destruction all over the place they just want to sit the region on fire and then the military industrial complex can come in and sell arms to restart and there's always this potential war that's all they care about we see the same get it back after 20 years we've got more killing them all deaths and in baghdad again so yeah that's that's what they are aim is you look at libya same sort of things i think the underestimate in syria there are a list underestimate the syrian people and also underestimate their allies and i think in 7 now their allies have come in had syria been since criterion and had there been lots of lots of defections early on the analysts would not have stepped in i don't think they really did it because syria looks strong looks strong but on

the overwhelming force was been. surrounding it from all sides turkey itself has played a really vicious role of this it's stolen looted whole factories in aleppo and religious artifacts from places like. and obviously the oil in the recent part of syria that the likes of that relationship is not dominant there's ever going to be any kind of all your relationship between. also m r i we go back to beirut here i mean i'm not another thing that's not reported very much i mean if you look at the kurd the ask. which is you know 40000000 people it's a biggest fiasco in the world without a state you know and i feel for them ok it just the combination historical combination never worked out for them unless you want for countries in the middle east to give up their sovereignty and give it to someone else which we all know is not going to happen here but everyone i think has to be very careful because you know he always has his vision and he tends to fall on his face always asking for forgiveness afterwards but i mean you have to worry about the kurds in turkey

itself i mean if there's going to be maltreatment of the kurds which they don't deserve all right then they're going to have to worry about it themselves they have a goodly resolved within their sovereignty of god i'm very worried you're going. no actually he that he doesn't have to worry about it because majorly if you look there are certain sticks that say for example that the city of istanbul it's majorly run by kurdish businessmen who are actually allied with evelyn there's a lot of confusion as to how many kurds are actually against at the gun versus how many he has as allies and somebody doesn't have to worry about that and considering concerning the 40000000 this for i mean look at lebanon we are a tiny country of 4000000 but we have 25000000 and that the that doesn't mean anything because inside of syria the kurds are only 6 percent of the entire fabric of the syrian fabric and mean if we are going to give the kurds we might as well start listening to certain demands from the syrians from the daniels from the

christians from the muslims it would never end this is not the case syria should be unified as it was just before the war and i like to remind everyone specially your audience that we are on a very important phase right now we have before the end of the year there is the talks which the constitutional right there will be held and i just read a few hours ago that president putin will be in both the saudi arabia and the u.a.e. next week this is also a major development we also know that the talks there should be a platform that says all of syria will be the body to all of this year and that. will come back for this constitution to work properly and this is what the turks the iranians and the russians agreed upon when he met uncle and the very important thing is i think the main plan for whatever the godfather evelyn's not to take land in syria but to put the refugees that he cannot hold anymore because his own public opinion his own turkish residents and public opinion in turkey is against more refugees against even having the current refugees staying it's more than 5000000

refugees but it's about 2000000 syrians so what he's thinking about is making this saves zone into an area for these specific refugees who by the way house of which have already turkish i.d.'s so let it be ok where are money back tomorrow in that area and you can call came home are where do they look percent over you see big politics will these people want to be moved there that's the last question how well they want to go well they have another option i would have another option or as there will be extradited there will be put pushed out of turkey ok margaret quipped 20 seconds to finish up the program tomorrow i think i think basically these people are looking towards they're looking for a better life for their children they're looking for more education more economic prosperity and so on and so forth in no way they would want to go back to a war torn yeah oh yeah especially if they know that this war is not going to end at all and they're going to be you know fuel for the next battle so i'm thinking

they're going to be dragged there and we've heard i don't think all they have learned your money and i thought you kyra. he's all right well well i'm afraid we've run out of time to the fascinating joint over where he dropped out of time many thanks to my guests in the u.k. double him and in beirut and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. the next time and remember. do you really get the. solution what if its 1st step. was to did it so.

close. to the finish so smooth over. the 1st. sit. with no make the manufacture consent to stick to the public well. when the ruling classes protect themselves. in the final merry go round certainly don't want.

to ignore middle of the room sick. this is a murder that was caught on video the murder was committed by the crepes 3 crips it was an in-house murder meaning that a street crypt killed another great street crypt oftentimes gang members go by cold and one of the code says to never commit crimes against your own gang members in this particular scenario or murder investigation there was a. transplant that was a narcotics user he went to purchase narcotics from a member of the narcotics was either bad or he was somehow slighted on it as a result he went to another great street cred gang member in got a gun with a gun the transience shot and killed a gang member at the time of the.