palin and. the unlucky for her. looks a bit. peculiar. and this is breaking the satellite got a very special show for you today featuring an exclusive sit down interview with two and a say whistleblowers bill binnie and kirk levy so let's get to it and let's break the side. of a piece of look it was terrible they are looking very hard to take our lead to get. a plug in that sack with the their little little. place.

to look. tomorrow marks the one year anniversary since the first bombshell story broke i'm sorry tomorrow marks the one year since the first bombshell story broke based on top secret leave documents provided by national security agency contractor edward snowden over the past year we've learned that the n.s.a. is using a multitude of programs with names like prism and boundless informant to engage in massive dragnet surveillance of every american citizen and these revelations have completely redefined the notion of intelligence gathering and shed light on technologies that were in comprehensible mere years ago but to former n.s.a.

insiders saw the rise of the surveillance state long before the world knew edward snowden's name bill benny was an n.s.a. technical director from one thousand nine hundred sixty five to two thousand and one we view a senior analyst in the n.s.a. from one nine hundred seventy five to two thousand and one and the months following the nine eleven attacks these two men witnessed a complete transformation of the government agency they had worked for decades and were forced to retire to the grave and concerns of the illegal and unconstitutional direction of the agency so to discuss their experiences at the n.s.a. as well as what the snowden revelations mean for all of us i'm joined now by building me and kirk we thank you so much both of you for coming on bill i want to start with you you're one of the creators of the premium eleven data collection surveillance program called the red which actually did have privacy protections instead for american citizens why was this program abandoned and what kind of system replaced it but will it actually wasn't there and in the back part of the analysis part the part that allowed them to deal with massive amounts of data and

index it was taken in to manage that was the way they they actually were able to to build surveillance on the entire world that that particular program was that powerful and that's why we put in those. protections so that it would be impossible for them to abuse it and that was the first thing they removed when they took it into the new program stiller wind. and kirk after you guys found out about what they had done how did you bill and other intelligence insiders address these concerns within the government and how were those concerns matt from officials in reality we had been trying to address what was going on it in a say in terms of modernization for years. and it's kind of like nine eleven the events of nine eleven were the culmination. it in our minds of our failure to get those at the agency to see the potential of what we were developing

what bill had vented in the thread project. and it was within six weeks of nine eleven that we and. myself will be retiring from n.s.a. in absolute disgust because we had failed we had been trying to tell them they were going to fail. and we lost the battle. and bill in two thousand and seven the f.b.i. raided both of your homes along with other officials who had spoken out on the false premise that you guys had leaked classified documents or information to the press what was that experience like for you and were you surprised at the aggressiveness of the response and well yes the cia i had been cooperating with the f.b.i. in their investigation into the new york times leak. for months several months about four months before the raid and when they came at me. you know it's hard to understand why they would do that and why they were here and pointing guns at me to

so and my family so it's all a question of you know what was this all about and finally it didn't take me too long to figure out that what they were really doing was trying to intimidate us because this was like the morning of the second day of their guns all this is testimony to the senate judiciary committee about the terrorist surveillance program that the president had talked about which was he only talked about the war it was wiretaps at the time but there were many other programs involved at cia and also at n.s.a. i think that included spying on everybody in the country and building a knowledge and understanding of their lives of everybody as they were living them you know so it was a matter of pulling actually it was a computer program that was reassembling dossiers on everybody in the country in the world eventually so it was clear to me at that point that that's why they were there to keep us quiet so i started getting mad at these people while they were still there and so that's what i reported to the f.b.i. the real crime that they were sent there which was bush cheney hayden and tenet is the core who core of individuals who decided to support the constitution in violate

all the laws basic a lot of the laws that we had in statutes at the time and i told them what it was still when programming what data they were using how they were organizing what i was doing i was telling that all the f.b.i. agent on on my back porch so the only one who was acquired for it was the one fellow who was the special agent in charge paul marek he was the only one who was cleared for that program the only thing. he could do when i was doing that was look at the floor because i knew what i was doing was causing him a problem because i was telling all these other agents f.b.i. agents what what crime was being committed but that they weren't cleared for they were not cleared for this program so now we had to have a meeting outside before they left my house of all the agents around the cars they couldn't leave until you instructed them on what they could not say wow and curt in the case of thomas drake of course that went a little bit farther to say the least talk about exactly what the f.b.i. did to him well let me frame it a little bit for you in november of two thousand and nine bill binney and i

received a communication from our lawyer after we were raided in two thousand and seven we went have izzy's on a lawyer rather than pay to. the lawyer was a former u.s. prosecutor so we thought he'd know how to deal with the government. he told us to lay low in november two thousand and nine he sends an e-mail and he says guys i just got a call from the department of justice they're coming after you. so bill and i made an appointment with him and we went into baltimore and sat down on his desk and. he was completely surprised by this move he thought it would go away well that wasn't so that was the end of that for the holidays it was november when we got this message come january we get another e-mail there's a new prosecutor for the government the old one had left the government and we are being offered letters of immunity if we are willing to sit down with the f.b.i.

and the prosecutor from the start going to justice and sir questions about thomas drake and so bill and i agree will do that we knew tom had done nothing wrong easy let's go so we go down to the f.b.i. facility just outside d.c. and maryland and separately we address questions of questions mostly were questions like. did you meet with tom on what occasions and of course we had had lunch was sure said hello but nothing very interesting and did he talk about mulching papers destroying evidence or no no sorry tom is an honest guy so long story short we get letters of immunity in february saying we are under no further threat for this entire matter bill billy and i bathed and threw their attention. and we think

it's because he's the one that went to the press and n.s.a. was very much trying to end the government for that matter send a message if you work in the intelligence community and you talk to the press you're going to get hammered and so they want to make an example whether they won the case or not was not important to the government they wanted to send a message and that's why they went after and they actually said you know they they require this document they had specifically taken that was unclassified. stream was shady it. was also material that they had independently released publicly publicly and jim bamford found it and also provided that to the judge bennett in the court. kirk i want to actually build let's talk about starting tomorrow of course the anniversary of the leaks i want to play a quick clip from this n.b.c. interview on let's check that out. they found that we had all of the

information we needed as an intelligence community as a classified sector as the national defense of the united states to detect this plot we actually had records of the phone calls from the united states and now the cia knew who these guys for the problem was not that we weren't collecting information it wasn't that we didn't have enough dots it wasn't that we didn't have a haystack it was that we did not understand the haystack that we. and of course this is why you guys you know if you will agree with his assessment here oh yeah i know it's specific like six or seven phone calls from san diego back to the yemen facility and by the way are both ends were no i mean both numbers were there but that's how caller id works you know and you're talking about switches and then the switches have to know exactly how to pass or where it's coming from the pass the other line back so that they have to have the information to make that connection

otherwise it doesn't happen. why expand the haystack if the haystack was already there could have prevented the terrorism well the very simple reason they did it was for money it was to build up an empire of an industrial complex around the n.s.a. and other agencies and that's exactly what they've done their budget is running to spend on the order of seventy billion a year on contracts well let's go along with the n.s.a. apologists i hate in clapper who say that there is no tangible evidence that the n.s.a. is actually using this data against us so why should we worry what's your response it's. unnecessary operates behind a wall of secrecy you need a clearance just to enter the building and so what goes on behind those fences and facilities is unbeknownst to anyone except and say so n.s.a. has the license to say what it wants to when there's no ability to challenge it virtually no. i would also add that it's not so much n.s.a.

using the data it is it is law enforcement f.b.i. and the way they're using this data directly they have ways and means to interrogate him directly into the director mueller testified to this to the senate judiciary committee he said he had access to a technology database which he put together with the it where he can go in and get e-mails with one query get all past e-mails and all future ones as they come in on a person what he's doing is he's going into the n.s.a. database because the n.s.a. and the it's responsible for communications that's that's ok so they're and they're they've got all these nearest devices around the network collecting all this e-mail so they're going into the base they're creating interrogating all of this material to get criminal activity you know i mean as i read snowden has said repeatedly this is about the potential for retroactive prosecution kind of building this whole that framework that's exactly what they're doing exactly right we're going to take a break now and we'll be back to n.s.a. whistleblowers you guys stick around. do you want me i want you to. comedy

news with some key points of comedy news for the news to be a bare fisted no holds barred fight to the dead. because truth vampire fighting into the necks of the corporate elite billionaire freaks while they're going. out so that's what you get with my new show redacted tonight. this was on the washington well it's a mess that is being suggested add to the list. is a. candidate prophesy of current issues actually back to me doesn't do too much for ad revenue my own tech agriculture giant tits on a seventy six year old american farmer based in indiana just fall out do you think this is going to create the cia do you think this is what's triggering a race to so long just to but it's also the largest debtor nation in the history of

prettiness it is mostly about alternatives to the status quo but when i give you all those points to working for the american dream the next day we're just trying to survive it's time for americans and lawmakers are forced to wake up and start talking about the real causes a problem. even if you know. watch what he's done as far as this country in the case and know where he is headed is good they could harder to protect our nation to take snowden he was convincing he was doing a service to the people by doing this greatest fear that is the.

and we're back with and i say whistleblowers bill benny and kirk we heard want to start with you when obama took office he was briefed on the programs he decided to go forward with them why do you think he did this given the fact that he ran his presidency on a platform of transparency and strict constitutional hearings. i think it's the result of what i call techno speak when i say he talks about what it does it tends to put it in somewhat difficult abstract terms it also uses words to deceit so for example being a sale say we're not doing such and such under this program. but what program are they doing it on so these are correct statements in front of congress but they're meant to mislead. to be deceptive so i'm not sure that that obama ever good or bad really what was going on you're never sure that

anybody does congress where's the big briefings all the time but still don't understand what will certainly didn't look like bush. and i find it hard to believe that obama a constitutional lawyer yeah one at least want to know hey what is this not spying that we have to believe in before snowden made his revelations you had said that the us had turned into a police state i was worried if you can expand on why you made that comment and what snowden's revelations have kind of expose that have helped further cement that notion well i said it because they knew they had the capacity of collecting of information on everybody mostly their focus was on the united states initially but it spread around the world so it's really collecting data on everybody in the planet and i knew the capacity of the systems involve there was no limit on what you could do with them that i saw anyway when i left there so. the point was then how were they using it and that came out with director mueller the f.b.i. when he testified to the senate judiciary committee on the thirtieth of march of

two thousand and eleven it's on the web where he said he got together with the with the d.o.d. and created this database well that told me that he was interrogating all the e-mail collection that they were making you also had access to the phone network he said he talked about phone data too not at that it but in another one so they were using this data for police operations and so it was reuters published an article on it in august of last year talking about the d.n.a. in the saud the special operations division in d.n.a. which was specifically to look at the data that n.s.a. collected to find criminal activity and then they would use that to go arrest people and after the arrest you know if they'd say. part way here in this park in what way for a truck to pull in go arrest the guy bring the drug dog in and go step out the drugs and then you can the policy was you could not use any of this information documented in any court records and you couldn't tell the judge who was

a prosecuting a defending attorneys about it you had to do a parallel construction that meant they knew where the data was so you go through do your normal policing that you would do to find evidence and then you substitute that for the n.s.a. data as the basis for arresting them but i call that basically a planned program purgery policy run by the department of justice of the united states now it's not only the united states now because they share that with foreign counterparts so that goes all the way around the world so they're subverting the entire judicial process here and around the world so they're really undermining democracy everywhere. it's important to point out this is the five eyes this is not just it's not just us it's a lot more. criticism from journalist glenn greenwald for the way that he's distributing the leaks i want to see if you're happy with the process of how the leaks have been distributed you know it's almost a moot discussion for me because we have

a government subverting the constitution that's what we should be focused on not the. details of greenwald's leaks cetera i think for an. indoctrinated non intel person he's probably done a pretty good job people have asked me when you look at what has been leaked by the greenwald snowden team. i tell people what does it mean to you when you see prism. they say nothing to me if there's a word i don't know what it means because while that's right you don't and so most of water on these slides are a bunch of names shown in relationship to each other but it's difficult to interpret what's going on because the words are few and if you're not part of this system it's difficult to know you have to infer now bill and i have an advantage we've dealt with this kind of speak before so we can infer things from it but i think they've done

a pretty good job. and you know snowden is clearly not an anarchist who doesn't want to abolish the government doesn't want to abolish the n.s.a. has made a deal with these journalists to actually have that very document to consult with the government as we found out he's very careful in the way that he wants this distributed bill are you any comments on that. well. basically when i look at that i see what he's what he's released and what they publish and i don't see any damage to the united states at all because after all when they claim there's this is irreparable damage they're doing that just to hype up the attack on the person what they're what the slides are really showing is that we do all this stuff which everybody knew we were doing anyway so the other the other point is very simple what alternative people in the world have if you don't want to use the phone that's that that's a choice you could make but you can't use any phone right so you have no choice just because we're monitoring phones you have to if you have if you have to communicate you have to use a phone or e-mail or something so you have no choice that's like all the verizon

people know their information being transferred the government but they have to change companies why what is their choice to another good point made in the united states and secrets is that this is not just about government surveillance this is about corporate surveillance but people don't seem to care as much because it's used for advertising collection instead of intelligence gathering but it's very scary when you have an apparatus working in conjunction with each other that's exactly say exactly the point see the industry can come and arrest you and put you in jail right governments can the one. cooperate they can add extra dimensions to what the government has knowledge in terms of knowledge of the government as you bill you brought a really good point about a minute ago when you said you know those people we knew about this for ten years you guys have been saying that you've been yelling on the rooftops as well as a couple of people like thomas drake what is your response to people who say snowden hasn't brought us anything new we already knew about this the documents don't tell us anything that the response is pretty simple this is irrefutable evidence up until then they could have denied it and said no that's not really too

true but now with the evidence that's why you took all the data out because that was the only way to convince people no you had the evidence which was the government's data so the government can't they cannot there's no way they can deny it so we have documents finally you brought up a good point as well when you said that people are focusing on character assassinations and the way that this is all being done why why are people focusing so much on snowden and greenwald and not the leaks that's a good question. you know over to europe right now there's a greater debate about this entire matter they seem to appreciate the threat more than the typical american we're spoiled we've enjoyed this country for two to three hundred years but we've never lived under a dictatorship we've never lived under the nazis we've never lived under the stasi the secret police at the germans and many of the europeans have and they remember

those harsh conditions and they don't want that to return so i think that's why they understand it and get it a little bit better but i think most of the polling that i've seen pretty much the majority still side with snow on this one which is encouraging there really is all about the constitution it really is no matter how much they try to frame it here really is about the content of the doc like it's like the wizard of oz you know attention of the man behind the curtain right ok. game. bill i want to play another clip from the stone interview where he talks about what it means to be a patriot. the patriot doesn't mean prioritizing service to government above all else. being a patriot means knowing when to protect your country knowing when to protect your constitution knowing when to protect your countrymen. from the violations of an.

the national weather service in mount holly new jersey has issued a severe thunderstorm warning for delaware county in southeastern pennsylvania northern newcastle county in northern delaware northeastern cecil county in northeast maryland eastern chester county and southeast pennsylvania until seven pm at six nineteen pm national weather service doppler radar indicated a severe thunderstorm the storm was near campbellsville moving northeast at forty five mph this storm is capable of producing damaging winds in excess of sixty miles per hour the severe thunderstorm will be near can its great national director six thirty pm elementary the around six forty pm cheney and west turn around six forty

five pm grady dilema around six fifty pm newtown square in broome around six fifty five pm drexel hill around seven pm this is a dangerous storm if you are in its path move interest to a sturdy building and stay away from windows when it is safe to do so report severe weather to local law enforcement or to the national weather service a severe thunderstorm watch remains in effect until ten pm thursday evening for delaware and northeastern maryland and new jersey and eastern pennsylvania repeating a severe thunderstorm warning has been issued until seven pm for the following county newcastle delaware and cecil maryland in the following counties income for being in chester in delaware. are still huge numbers of innocent people that get swept up into this vacuum cleaner. all along bill and i and others have tried to build a system the thin thread that we talked about earlier that was focused on very

closely on known bad people and their relationships with others yet to be determined. but collecting all the method data but encrypting it to protect. the identities of all those innocent people out there that gave you the best chance to find things you didn't know about and also focus analysis on the things you do know about and do your job and make sure you cover that well with that kind of technique we don't think we would have had a boston marathon explosion and so forth so n.s.a. is not operating at optimal what we would call optimal levels of analysis so when i look at the freedom act narrowing mehta data it sounds good in the protection of privacy but it really doesn't afford that much and i do hear nothing about encrypting the innocent the identities of innocent people so n.s.a. can still look at those people illegally as far as i'm concerned we have about

a minute left but you know for people like me in the audience is watching this show i feel like we really want to get our hands on encryption and try to figure out how we can protect our data online and i feel like it's not as user friendly as i guess it should be what's your advice to people who want to protect their data i think if they are after you there's no way virtually you can do that you know. unfortunately that's true i mean because when i look at pretty much this way there's so much capability even if you have an encryption once you decrypt it in there's enough of them to look at you and then once you put it in your system in a decrypted form they can come through a break in your computer and take it out that way so it doesn't make any difference what you do my point all along has been that's why i call the police state is that ronald reagan said we are a country with a government we're now we're a government with a country that's what we're turning into we've got ten seconds i would just simply say if you would crypto all the meditator they can't get because they don't know to

whom it belongs amazing to have both of you on bill benny we really appreciate you guys thank you so i think what you've done. and that's our show you guys tomorrow when i break the sad all over again thank you so much. well you like me you want your comedy news with some t twenty of comedy news to be a bare fisted no holds barred fight to the dad. but go through with vampire fighting into the next in the corporate elite the billionaire freaks while they're going. well that's what you get with my new show but jack to the night.

i marinate going on for that impartial and financial reporting commentary and for news and much much. only on bombast and only on. my. early hour late would like with new jersey usa what was going.