capitalism without bankruptcy is like christianity without it. you're watching aussies great to have you with it bad luck. bankruptcy and default gloom for greece as the coalition government fails to agree on a fresh multi billion euro a stabber c package that the prime minister says is vital for rescuing the crippled economy. also the deadly car bomb blast rocks they see where city of aleppo shortly after an al-qaeda linked militant pledged support for the sewer and rebels as fears mounts that the conflict in the country is getting increasingly heidrun by foreign forces. and service breakaway close of

a region is still sorely games overtaken as a group of countries recognizing its independence prepares to remove all of the sides a move many believe could threaten to escalate ethnic tensions. and right now the people of other examines if capitalism is facing a crisis and the second part of all she's a pack c.e.o. summit panel stay with us. now and our audience here. what's the road forward we're going to questions little bit later what's to road for what's your ideal world my ideal world is it the people who are bankrupt go bankrupt and fail the way it's supposed to wait either way ok we're supposed to work is people who fail fail and then competent people come in take over the assets reorganize and start over and what's happening now in the west is the government is taking the assets away from the competent people

giving them to the incompetent people and saying to the incompetent people now you can compete with the company really good with their money give you an example tara let me give you an example variable then plug samples we all can understand in iceland. beginning of the financial crisis very interesting story a woman that ran a boutique had a good job she was an independent entrepreneur and within a month she was wiped out and bankrupt and she said i did nothing wrong and she's right ok no the system punished or not the way she play by the rules or what have you played by the what happened in iceland was in the icelanders said we're not going to bailout the banks to hell with them let them go bankrupt and they refuse to pay the price and when they were here when i'll give generously or nine dollars bailout the banks and the banks they let me go back to my story went to cheat do wrong she did nothing wrong she did nothing wrong but she lives with i don't know what the woman from iceland but i certainly know about the stories about the americans who have housing that was very good in the bank told them you can upgrade

by the way the money is free this is not about the basics to live this is purely facilitating living beyond your means that that is the problem and i am arguing and i wish americans all the best and capitalism is not just about companies it's a much wider spectrum of things because it's meant to deliver on prosperity in asia we go down that route where we say you can had everything and there's no controls will be catastrophic and the size is very clear there's not enough to go around so what is the medium to which we reach this and i'm always fascinated that people from the west think we need to relate to the world we come that for your question is right how do you stay you can't go on what's the model you want what's your ideal world ok jim how serious if i had a corrective other side of the panel the same capitalism go through booms and busts and let's regulate it so that it doesn't really go boom and doesn't really go bust

and it's somewhere out in the middle but they're all in the middle is always mediocre what my version of capitalism is this code seed is created for gays and this is the individuals who can succeed in things they want to see in life and they don't have barriers well it's corroding social responsibility attached to anything else it is up to the individual person. if you know those types of serial so you can you can just opt out if you don't care but let me give you an example you can be a businessman in this part of russia and there say you know i can make money by cutting out the floor because the state has said that force is protected. so there are rules all the time i totally agree with you we need entrepreneurs i'm an entrepreneur i'm not against capitalism but there are rules for to protect the public good individuals don't do that only if the state does that and that's what needs to be done we cannot weaken the state but i'm not suggesting we have authoritarian states either this is

a clever discussion should be we should be had they not about mao and stalin and ronald reagan that was twentieth century frank jump in and i am no fan of forced already in this sense i support america for example and may not manipulate support your idea morning your story it's important to think with the ridiculous cost i think it's really much what's your might want to but in but the thing about crows initiatives i think just cutting cost is not enough to tell you what you know young people in your mini and given your personal ambitions that just lazy right why did the system do that and i think that system you know because for me you have a limited kind of slieve like in the social timex like all the social goodies and this we have to stop through capitalist. then we have to give them. ideas of the future and that's what the state has to do right and given them the efficient for the future i mean to be fair isn't unemployment an incentive to make an equity gym environment and environment to create jobs and vironment and ridge then some

partnership can prosper if we agree to create creating the system their own printers can you know build up its mechanics be more concrete give me some point about what how do improve it how to fix it well i would say you know i think that the difficulties in europe and the u.s. are born out of a historical sense of entitlement and privilege i think that asia we're going to have to do two things in my view the first one is we need to start understanding that resources need to be priced properly secondly without accusing me of being a socialist we need to put collective welfare simply ahead of individual rights the japanese practice that but how it. did you see them in space so now we're going to price. so they want to know when it's time jim keeps saying these things have to be done who's going to price the resources or the market the market is going to do a better job than the market failure i don't need to argue with people that markets fail so moscow is going to do it. the soviets are going to do it you know.

that religious tradition. imagine if you didn't have the e.p.a. . we didn't have the tape for a long time in this country you saying that today the united states. yes i am doing this now you say we're. going to have to get a microphone hold on. yes i know with a bit of regulation they have got it we i want to just a patient in the audience please sir stand up what you got to that we were fine results for a lot of years until the early seventy's i think. government organization that imposes increased. burdens on the business in the free market that ends up hurting the very consumers it's intended to protect how does it hurt the consumer. it certainly. is hurting the consumer with the.

cafe standards driving the internal combustion engine into obscurity so it's going to remove it from our lives and remove a tremendous what you're reading off a really good point here is it's really fundamentally what is the role of the state here now so many people don't want any role whatsoever and you know and jim and i probably could argue with each other until they're blue in the face about you know what kind of regulation caused the crash my view is not enough you probably would say to me the problem was the government the government was called the problem this central bank in america meant in the business going to be sold why do you. think the government the central bank in america refused to let people go bankrupt they kept printing money and bailing people out so the people buying for homes for housing bubble you know i don't know of any oh wow downstream what we have for the maybe ailing of the auto when you know of course not i wouldn't bail out anybody i would even bail out you don't even. know you were you know peter. and not even me i

would bail out of me i wouldn't bail bail out your kid so i would you know that the automobile industry the insurance industry the banking industry all of these industries were bailed. thinking is great because america america went in bailed out everybody and weighed less and less said mc you know like go ahead. even like civil war in some countries right richmond like like you would like us rights and then just to put people on the street looking to your right a lot of protests strike a balance don't function anymore and what we really need is a strong street we don't need more government we need better government leaders all of this for us election circus right the government comes in when you think studios are cycle cycle yellow. circus extra circus so basically the government comes in and a lot of promises in the first year in the second the beatles. change in the thirty year kind of a standstill you know because we election time starts in the forty years

complaining so nothing is moving right and that's no good government is to that's the reason then china and russia prefer a different model for the russian to try to go ahead and tell us more on the bill if he wants to build it for the businesses to prosper and less regulation ok i'm not saying there is a lot of left aggression on some russian and american lot of coal but this is something that's the need to improve because let me let me just go i'll go back to what i know a bit more which is asia i was compare the two largest nations in asia china and india one is democratically elected capitalist free markets maybe not operating as well one is bull. state run with capitalism as well which country has delivered great on the past on lifting people up the chinese system of course the chinese but because it has a strong state it doesn't take anything for granted that it does god it's my god if you ever try to do business in india nobody can do business and if i was a government everywhere. you are you cannot be and you cannot be an

entrepreneur in india unless you are in bed with the government that was the only way you can do that is true and that's my point so this is the you know your question is do we need a strong state my point is you need a strong state and the chinese system works because it's a strong state no indian system doesn't work because it's a weak state now it's a strong the chinese system works because they let all these people do what they want to the government couldn't keep up with what the chinese government is very clear about what you can and can't do oh please please as i said before they call themselves communist but they're fantastic capitalists they are that's a form we're all here and it's government decides it doesn't really matter what you call the party then but this drives one of the problems you can have to keep from having drowning in china. it's not about a tea party you're saying that's not a common would like to me but to talk about good governance i think we've just made europe the governments in europe i can only talk about europe i would comment about the release of china russia and the us what we maybe need to new

a system of just getting the best into public maybe getting the own to nurse a public option nurse also running the government's own many believe me oh my god i have to people who can make decisions to problem in europe of the people running the countess who comes make decisions in china or the people in charge who can make decisions and not the right tough the. wealthy british style. sometimes. my thanks go. to. market and. find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cancer reports on our team.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tired of the big picture. maybe we should just have a state that has just basically quiet moments and leave it at that ok just a base to stay safe and i love you how is that enough for you jim i would say yes you have a so you know you have schools and a fire department and if you want to share the schools i don't know if i would

agree with a lot every school america america that goes a little bit out of became a great country when it didn't have public schools it would have private every nobody had an automatic right to go to school in the nineteenth century in america if you had enough money your kids went to school you don't have to pay as you think it should be a right now to go to school well of course i think everybody should but the state education america's a disaster you understand that american kids are not even in the top twenty in anything on international test and america spends four times what the number two country does on education you think that's a good system. and i'll see later i'm ok of course it was an awful system well education one agrees second of course infrastructure in the third very important point to culture i think countries history important talk about money you can talk about capitalism but should also give see addressed symphony orchestra's music to the people i think it's really a task of the government. i mean my own my view is that capitalism i think kept

a. one point plea deal in chinese i have a dream to have a car we can choose not to have a car i think that's the point i support yes smart. good point good point. thank you my name's tom wheelwright i'm a former astray and senator i've been living for the last twelve years on the rise in low taxes and presently living in singapore but i'm going home at the end of the month. where did you get this idea that morality had anything to do with an economic system ok nowhere in the wealth of nations that adam smith ever say greed is good i defy you to show me the page what he did say was that morality is not a very useful way of looking at an economic system rather than the very good of it keep it short which keep it short that's not really a sense of right and wrong in your parents teachers that not the economic system sorry but the wealth of nations the wealth of nations was written by a scotsman who lived about two hundred fifty years ago he led his ascent of the empire why should the rest of us be following his edicts secondly he never went to

india or china or asia didn't understand the world where the euro in no way has. he wrote a book called the theory of moral sentiments too but the economist very conveniently tend to ignore all of that. and the wealth of nations does talk a lot about morality are you saying that nobody had any brains unless we rode into the top but two hundred years later we're still just referring to adam smith we still read plato we read sartre not that there's a myth but it's part of what economists seem to just refer to as the relevance and karl marx was well i think. frankly my. fellow about things but you know i would like to mention one the great thinker the ability to tell. and he basically said the end justifies the means and the city can always

point your finger on somebody that's normal reality in the system it's like a tit for tat it's like a serious sum game and what we really need to do and maybe it's my. just two pennies in a nutshell how to save capitalism is to give up this next few billion mindsets and go for a win win situation. really be a positive so that's what it'll sound ok to do it maybe you know if we wind this down can we have a win win situation for us and we have and we really apply if you increase the pie if you have the pie which you have to do why is that always somebody's going to lose if you increase the price increase consumption through the month of supply yes . sorry but when we're this utopian hubris somewhere where others lose what wait a minute well how do in maryland how do you balance it it's a stand if the world economy improves sure people are better off that's when when that's not when where when and who loses the people in china in two hundred million

people now have running water is that lose well i didn't say that but why did you say hang on the cost of economic power economic growth in china following the current model has created a huge cost that's the challenge what kind of israel in other words what you're referring to i really don't understand what kind of coke yeah who the environmental cause for people living in the periphery has been huge and the chinese government the first to acknowledge that this is. and they're taking cues in terms of trying to dress they know that they had unrestrained growth has come with a huge price they have to completely look at things in a different so you're saying that everybody in china she go back to one nine hundred seventy eight before i don't think. this is not working right gentlemen of the audience i want to keep the audience and gauge sir give your name please and a quick question i meant a single from canada and i just had a question my mind sometimes you've been speaking

a lot about letting businesses fail but in the current situation. you could almost say countries have just a significant effect what situation what do you believe when it comes to countries should we let them also fail such as greece spain portugal or iceland. sovereign countries there's a company just going to bail them out i would say go bust here i would make the point that in iceland they let them fail iceland failed and now iceland since it has been one of the most rapidly growing prosperous countries in europe a stone here the same thing they failed and they have boom since we didn't twenty years ago they failed and yet now it's been booming you look at japan they refuse to let people fail it's twenty two years later in japan as last two decades that way does not work you let countries fail and then they start over that way that's why they won't work i guess. greece is all about saving the euro not saving the greek people i think less countries feel good i'm european material even so i'm

based in switzerland and we always very quickly when it comes to prices but short solidarity to all the other european countries that just come see that congress like germany and sweden take advantage in terms of you know the strong exports and the. lot of some congress will fail i think we have to help them it's a little solidarity maybe some of the very capitalist and i want to you know that's a lot of the story so much hope that you know a man is a man school when your boss. basically your best i don't agree with this for us england we are born to be a good people and we should always try to get back my gentleman and all of you know i want to ask you what about austerity is this the century of austerity i haven't done for i did i had the money union thing of this is not this is another reason it is not a solution i would completely agree with him if greece would go but two years ago it would have been much better right now yes but only if i know there's a green on your social unrest yes howls of people on the street have nothing to eat today when you go to

a doctor increases to paying cash because it's oceanfront system is not working anymore people are feeling people are miserable your solution what is your solution that i'm supposed to pay for the great not you or your american who's going to. meet my european after we pay bleed the rich bleed around then start writing but not at infineon but we are in for the last couple of the euro it was getting back to the draft deleted the currency it seems we're going to will be cheap and what kind of fall off european tourists go into greek island you'll have perfect economy that they won't let everything believe me agrees we are saying the patient sick what we do we do the big question is. how do we make sure people don't get critically ill that's the question how did green get away its extreme forms of they were spending suggesting to people they had everything my view is in this part of the world we should that is the extreme form of capitalism we should not allow our spending by the government the reason greece is not always easy is

because overspend buys ago the us is overspending by government to the us should fail to us don't worry and has failed the world doesn't want to keep going back to our audience here sir please stand up give us your name islander a foremost russia what do you think about the idea that capitalism system will be successful in case they will be the main capitalist. state will decrease taxes and more shareholders will would be federal agents and everything would be ok it still depends on what kind of state we want what kind of state the union of socialist socialist the union of soviet socialist republics public of china. in people republic of china pay is one of the shareholder in many many enterprises right i know but they're selling them off they're selling them off and they're letting the market take take over but this is nothing wrong

with that state is working as a good capitalist in china it's an increase in the twelve making money to feed all those people. sorry but you turn it away to decrease texas in that way if any test will be criticized in the wrong ideal a lot of the states on chinese companies all of them think in the very capitalistic ways of thinking about the think about the profits they do not care about social responsibility and much less of a reason many american the european companies based on companies which grew up with us face the make money this is good debate i pulled the movie on saying that the opposite of capitalism is socialism this is not what the ultimate. by the way paying taxes is a good thing we should all pay taxes which is this everybody there you know why does everyone pay their fair share jim how much. did mitt romney pay a lot of. this year we don't know radio don't like wait wait a minute wait a minute are you a better judge of spending how to spend your money or is george bush or is barack

obama three people who is the best choice of how to spend your money you george bush or barack obama so i never have a say in it and i think the system is rotten on both sides so you don't you don't think you should give them the money to the politicians to say spend my money then my money i think money rich people should pay more money i do and i think middle class people should be giving away what's wrong when you have a more money why don't you have more money and spend it yourself instead of letting george bush think oh someone needs to build the roads so that you can just call because i want to build because we all build it we all build security so that you are saying so much american americans now are very much focused on. the american military has one thousand bases around the world so my taxes have to go to george bush so he can send one thousand military bases around the least i agree with what i agree with you on the democracy safety should be the most powerful military in the world and you choose that government i don't think i should say we should

diminish our army you go around saying. that's your name and you're listening or maybe you haven't been. paying attention maybe i haven't been making myself clear. the moment the moment america believes it's weak it flexes its military muscle that is your problem you've got to solve it for i don't know if we're going to solve it capitalism in american militarism a most panel ok question. of the last from hong kong i think i think you stand up please sir i think you don't need to give money to poor people or that is what you need to do if you need to to to engage them and that's what i like like like some good n.g.o.s are doing here in asia i interviewed some of them in thailand in malaysia and indonesia was the do you say to community if you want like better housing like first race on monday save some money and then with us' arrest so that you appreciate what you have and what they can hear jim what do you think of micro micro finance micro finance i mean small well there have been so many scandals and

so many losses yes the first guy got a nobel prize since then it's been corrupted corroded and it's been a disaster now people are going to change that is an absolute exaggeration of what micro finance and. ways that i don't know exactly what i say that was factually incorrect are there not people going to jail because of micro finance but the bank has just gone to jail the. micro finance people who broke the rules have gone to jail but to suggest that micro finance is corrupted all around the world is a great great i read about a guy got a nobel prize the other then it has become very rough going to do a lot more work. or up on the question that we are able to finance a lesson from cleveland observation this is a wonderful concept so is christianity to be right on into violence and you're right to get the specs are you suggesting want to finance has no place in the world i didn't say that the a ten a what i said was the first guy did a good job and there are good people doing it but it's like everything else where

there's religion politics education it gets corrupted road etc nobody plays a very important role for. those who interest in the world because in a competitive markets have a right or i don't know mark mellman this is i got exactly what i wanted i hope you did too i want to take a poll of the audience again is anybody change their mind ok i'll ask the question as capitalism lost its compass hands up. what are you that you're the smart people. and so everybody thinks the reverse just the opposite put your hands up. if you i think it is least those that did i think it least we entertained you here ok it's the same amount here. that's it from our debate here at apec two thousand and twelve here in russia many thanks for your questions and taking part in please join me in thanking our distinguished panel right here it's goodbye from me peter lavelle on and everyone else here at the apec summit in baltimore stuff thank you very much thank.