i'll tell you what more and more americans are really afraid of and how our lawmakers should be responding. sadly the circus freak show that would've been the donald trump debate has been cancelled every single republican in the race except for rick santorum declined the donald's invite essentially forcing him to cancel but as the donald normally does rather than fess up that he might have jumped the shark this time or that he doesn't have as much pull as he thinks he does plugs trump gave this explanation as to why he cancelled his debate. did you do this other republicans know a very worried that i'm going to run as an independent and i certainly have looked at it i even in my new book that just came out i disclosed in the financial disclosure my net worth and my cash and my assets and lots of other things and i am

looking at it if the republicans choose the wrong candidate which is a possibility and it's. oh here we go again with donald trump pretending to run for president but as trump goes on his it's all about me me me tour as an actual third party candidate jumping in the race this week and that's rocky anderson the former mayor of salt lake city who is now running for president on the justice party ticket he joins me now to talk more about his candidacy and just exactly what the justice department party is almost justice department done that myself welcome great to have you here to tell us about the justice department part of the justice party and your candidacy who just sparty just formed we announced a couple of days ago here in washington d.c. it's comprised of people all over the country cross partisan we've had democrats republicans independents green party members libertarians contacting us even members of the progressive democrats of america party faction of the credit party

but this party is about changing the system not just bringing out another cat or the other party minor party this is going to be a major political force in the country and it's about overall getting the corrupting influence of money out of our system so that we can get public policy through our government that actually serves the people of this country given that the supreme court and citizens united and. the first national bank versus bloddy and buckley versus vallejo and all the way back to santa clara i mean if we could take it back to marbury vs madison if you want that that the supreme court has repeatedly ruled that they have the right to make these rulings and that corporations are people and money is speech. how can any party no matter how noble it's beginning. insulate itself from the attack of the assault by big money i mean let's say you start this party and let's say that a lot of people get involved

a lot of people get really enthusiastic and then you know income the billionaires or income karl rove in comes karl rove or in comes a you know a saudi corporation that decides that they like you are dealt like you you know how do you how do you prevent that and still win an election in the past money has called the shots we know that has been imposed on us has overcome that doesn't we've seen in the last few years governments overthrown because of the power of grassroots movements and social media we have the democratization now of communication like never before and people are watching their face books and their twitters and tuning into videos that people are putting out by choice and they're actually what i you know i read your prospectus action plan to them and and you mention citizens united explicitly right but i didn't read a single word about how to deal with that how are you going to stop that or do you think that it's just going to be a citizens' uprising and if so how are people going to find out about it all of

them through first of all we we can't leave this with the supreme court anymore if citizens united was a bare majority of this priem court reversed these these people call themselves constitutional conservatives are the most activists probably ever to serve on the supreme court but to say the corporations are people like mitt romney has repeated now that there are people that should be you absolutely what is it what is your party doing well if your candidate is if it takes a constitutional amendment it will pass in this country because people know that our government we don't have universal health care like the rest of the industrialized world for one reason the corrupting influence of money coming from the medical insurance companies we're not providing leadership on climate change you're getting. bills through that will provide energy independence for one reason and that's the corrupting influence of the coal oil and gas industries we see these

this inability now because of statutes passed by congress to even negotiate lower prices with pharmaceutical companies under our medicare medicaid programs why is that that we can go to canada and buy these drugs for so much cheaper than these this country it's because of the corrupting influence of the pharmaceutical companies so let me say this the military industrial complex that we were warned about by president eisenhower has a stranglehold on our government and we have congressman and women voting for these ridiculous weapons programs that are outmoded billions and billions of dollars betrayal of our interests but they're doing it so that they can win elections by sending the bacon back home we've got to change the system and get that corrupting influence of money i totally agree with teddy roosevelt was talking like that in one nine hundred twelve about the bull moose party john anderson was talking about that in my lifetime i remember that that race by what was called the american party

or something i don't really i don't work in the ugandan army and about a party thank you very much ross perot was talking about that party the reform party exactly and of course ralph nader the green party the two thousand election i actually voted for ralph nader in that election as a lot of the i lived in vermont i figured it was a safe when i lived in utah it was even safer and my wife for al gore you know who we thought would be and why the still thing did win but the point is you do it. every time if you look back at the history of in the united states of third parties other than the whigs emerging out of the ashes the federalist and then the republicans emerging out of the ashes the whigs every other time a third party has been started to basically shoots its own people in the foot with the other parties were. why not infiltrate the democratic party which is more and more aligned with your values in the republican party presumably why not infiltrate them from the grassroots up and to take them over this is giant apparatus there

just sit there saying please volunteer to be committee precinct people begin to get because they're not about changing the system they have sustained the system every bit as much as republicans have president obama in his last campaign received more from wall street more in contributions than any other candidate i'm agreeing with you that they're corrupt now both parties are corrupt now but the democratic party was a major progressive force for change in the one nine hundred thirty s. the republican party going to be here on why is there well i am but there was a republican party as a major progressive force for change at the turn of the one nine hundred centuries and in the middle of the nineteenth century in the time the civil war these were crisis points and in american history and i think we're at a crisis point right now that it has only been rivalled by since the one nine hundred thirty s. i don't. you know convince me how a third party is going to do anything other than than to hand the election off to the republicans because i was a genuine progressive he's all in this country you know and the polls show it fifty seven percent of people in the rasmussen poll that was reported about three months

ago in the wall street journal said that they very much want to see a major all term of political party in the soil of course they want that but that this is what james madison freaked out about in federalist number ten right now we're there's only seven nations out of one hundred so democracies in the world that have first past the post winner take all actions os greece new zealand australia you know the rest of have at at least come up with boating we don't have proportional representation john stuart mill didn't invent that until we don't mix the right so we're stuck with this system how do we how do you do you how do you do it how do you make a third party do something when we need to change the system when we need to confront and change the corrupting influence of money in our government and everybody now knows it's taken a long time for people to catch up and i think the occupy movement frankly has helped raise the car just he was talking about these issues out there and there's never been such economic disparity in this country since the nineteenth twenties

and all of us are feeling it tom the american people don't matter if they're republicans democrats whatever their partisan affiliation is now and we can't let the fear of spoiling the race for the lesser of two evils stop us from taking advantage of this change to bring about. this is this major transformation in our government that we need and it really goes to the heart of what our constitution is about and we have both parties colluding in this regarding the rule of law whether it's holding war criminals accountable whether it's holding the telecom companies accountable for their illegal surveillance activities going to congress coming together with the then some of the old side imo i could recite the list for you but we're out of time i'm with you and i sometimes wish you the very best free shit like you thanks for dropping by tonight third parties have

always been problematic in america because we don't have proportional representation on the other hand they also often work as a force to bring issues into a larger arena of discussion from teddy roosevelt's bullmoose party to the greens of ralph nader it should be a very interesting election. yup it's the good the bad of the very very diverse of old really ugly the good time magazine time named its two thousand and eleven person of the year to be the protester citing the herb spring the demonstrations against austerity in greece and the rise of the occupy wall street movement here in the us time writes all over the world the protesters of two thousand and eleven sure a belief that their country's political systems and economies have grown dysfunctional and corrupt sham democracy rigged to favor the rich and powerful and prevent significant change they are for small d.

democrats and of course who goes to the magazine for recognizing we are living in a time of great change and revolution against the global banking system and you will lose the bad christine o'donnell b i'm not a witch republican senate candidate from delaware is trying to soak up her last fifteen minutes of fame going on c.n.n. this morning to defend her indoors going to mitt romney for president donald trump and. mitt saying he is consistent and she was pressed about how many times romney has actually been inconsistent take a look at what people criticized him for in two thousand and eight his consistent see the fact that he was so strong and i think people will find that appealing going into the twenty thousand people say that mitt romney isn't the most consistent candidate because he's changed his minds about big important issues everything harris you know that's one of the things that i like about him because he's been consistent since he changed his mind. that makes

a lot of just like newt gingrich has been faithful ever since he cheated on his first two ones something tells him it is probably not too enthusiastic by the jews but his latest story. i give it two weeks until romney has to cut his own commercial assuring us all that he too is not a witch and a very very ugly chucky cheese heard in san francisco chronicle nine chuck e. cheese restaurants in the bay area been fined by the u.s. department of labor for violating federal child labor laws errantly the restaurant had minors operating dangerous machinery like trash compact years and don't mix in machines chuck e. cheese's agreed to pay a twenty eight thousand dollar fine to the department of labor and comply with laws regarding child labor it's unclear if the restaurant will rethink its motto or a kid could be a kid on the bright side newt gingrich who thinks child labor laws are truly stupid will likely come out and supported chuck e. cheese and that's very very. telling about the latest on the fight against

corporate personhood now that we have the attention of u.s. senators what will it take for we the actual people to keep corporations out of our government. what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to break through it's already been made who can you trust no one who is in view with a global missionary see where we had a state controlled capitalism is called sasha's when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more.

thanks to the occupy wall street movement corporate personhood something i wrote a book about a decade ago when no one knew that what the heck i was talking about is now a topic everyone is talking about this month the city council of los angeles unanimously passed a resolution calling on congress to amend the constitution and strip corporations of their personhood other cities and counties have taken similar actions including boulder colorado masooma montana madison wisconsin dane county wisconsin and pittsburgh pennsylvania and now democrats in congress of introduce several

amendments tackling corporate person most recently senator bernie sanders of vermont introduced an amendment to the constitution overturning the supreme court's citizens united ruling and saying that corporations are not people and money is not speech it's the first constitutional amendment introduced by senator sanders in two decades in office so where do we the actual people stand today in the battle against corporate personhood for the latest i'm joined from our studios in miami by david cobb national spokesperson for move to amend and national projects director at democracy unlimited david welcome. thank you tom it's a pleasure to be back on your program thank you it's great to have you with us what's the status of the of the whole move to amend the movement to amend the constitution to reverse this bizarre notion of corporate personhood at the supreme court voted back in one thousand century. well you know tom when i first discussed this on your program a year ago we were happy to tell you we had twenty thousand people participating

today we've got over one hundred fifty thousand people actively participating not just names on a list but actually participating we had five or six local affiliates today we've got fifty local affiliates and more coming on and as you said move to and then was instrumental in passing every single one of those ballot initiatives not just a resolution by city council but actual organizers on the ground putting it all on the ballot so that there had been hundreds of thousands if not a million conversations about this bizarre notion that a corporation should be a person with constitutional rights the reality is that the move to them in coalition is multiracial multiethnic and it's getting larger stronger and better organized every single day david how did how did move to amend or get started and where is it going. well you know tom you well know that you and i have been knowing each other now for over a decade during the writing of an equal protection which i still cite is the seminal piece on the santa clara versus pacific railway decision you know there

have been efforts going on behind the scenes at the grassroots level for over a decade on corporate constitutional rights and the groups that were actually doing that work for a decade doing the heavy lifting preparing to thaw oil came together before the citizens united case came down and said this is our opportunity as horrible as it's going to be it will be an opportunity of clarity the american people will be exposed to this idea and it's up to us to ensure that it doesn't just become yet another corporations or bad or or corporate money in elections that it really needs to get to the root the systemic nature of corporations claiming constitutional rights and so we launched the day after citizens united and it's been getting larger stronger ever since other than the obvious first amendment use of the constitution by corporations and citizens united and now by karl rove and the koch brothers and what other parts of the constitution what other amendments or pieces

of the constitution have corporations or billionaires who use corporations or get their money from corporations corrupted to use against average people local communities or small businesses. tom i'm glad you asked that question because it does go beyond corporate money in elections corporate lawyers go into court and overturn environmental protection laws they overturned public safety laws they overturned public health laws they overturned worker protection laws the reality is this the idea of being a person with inherent in a legal rights under our constitution is sacrosanct the move to i'm in coalition supports that one hundred percent and what that means is if any local state or federal law violates an individual person's rights we should be able to go into court and overturn that law because the one thing that we have is a democratic republic and that is that our individual rights are sacrosanct and cannot be violated and that's the root of the problem with a corporation which is simply concentrated capital can claim that laws attempting

to control their conduct somehow violate the corporation's inherent inalienable rights it violates the entire premise of the democratic republic and i want to be clear about this tom was moved to and then stand foursquare is that only human beings have inherent in a legal constitutional rights and that means that non-profits do not have inherent in a legal constitutional rights any more than for profits do and so that's the reason we think that principled liberals principled conservatives the moderates are flocking to the move to amend effort and i want to invite your listeners your viewers to join us as well the web site of course your viewers know. move to amend our g. and if any of your folks don't have access to the web call us at seven zero seven two six nine zero nine eight four because we want to work with the grassroots and make this movement bubble up that's great david and we put the you are on the

website there are others out there who are trying to undo citizens united but they're saying a few of them that we shouldn't completely destroy corporate personhood but just get back the first amendment by rolling back citizens united and getting public funding into our elections why won't they go the whole way we have about a minute after. well i can't answer why they won't go the whole way but the reason that i go the whole way the reason i know you go the whole way and the reason i know your viewers go the whole way is we know it's not just about the corporate takeover of our elections corporations have hijacked all of our institutions corporations claiming constitutional rights is the linchpin for that how that has happened and we say we're only going to get one shot at an actual amendment and it has to be right and go to our web site move to amend dot org and you can look at our proposed amendment it is clear it is concise and it it is not favoring either the left or the right it's playing it down the middle and that's what the american people want david very quickly what are your thoughts on those who are calling for

a constitutional convention. i say this that's a fork in the road that we're going to have to come to at some point but right now we just need to be traveling the road that acknowledges that we need to amend the constitution i've got some thoughts about whether an amendment or a constitutional convention but at the end of the day i know this current supreme law of the land has been hijacked by a small ruling elite and just as the abolitionists the women's suffrage movement the trade union movement the civil rights movement is going to take a movement to correct the supreme court there you go and it's happening in many places but move to amend is one of the very best david thanks so much for being with us today thank you so much tom thanks for what you do my pleasure have a great evening america will never again be a truly constitutionally limited representative democratic republic until we extract to this cancer of corporate personhood from our body politic for more information as david said go to move to amend or.

christmas came early for conservatives who hate government this week a new gallup poll came out showing sixty four percent of americans fear big government so needless to say g.o.p. t.v. a k. foxx so called news jumped on the story and plastered across the airwaves all day long fact i was invited on the fox business channel to talk about it and i actually agreed i fear big government to at least the sort of big government george w. bush and the republicans brought us. so first off what do you fear more most big government or big business hey dave i'm actually have concerns about both the i want to government this big enough to make sure that my food is safe that my roads

work that the car you know that when i travel over here i don't get you know the streets are functional that the police are working that the fire department or the army but i really am not all that enthusiastic about a government that is looking into my e-mail or my personal mail without a warrant from a judge or you know there's got drones circling the sky watching all the way back to the george washington administration dave you could ask americans are you worried about big government answers yes that's why the constitution is a restraint on our government you know there's but there's a lot more to the gallup poll than just fear of big government after all as i said in that interview yesterday there's always been a streak of mistrust among americans toward big government some grand in our culture that's the reason why we have the constitution we have and i bet if we broke the numbers down people don't fear medicare or social security or many of the other things that conservatives call big government what they fear are the threats of big government for example the surveillance of the patriot act predator drones

flying over our heads the war the crony capitalism and taxpayer subsidies the corrupted politicians. that's the stuff people fear are concerned about that health insurance for seniors what's so scary about helping poor people have enough to eat with so called big government food stamps i don't get it you know what's what is so scary about that not the but i want to go back to what the poll also said and that is that americans fear big business three times more than they fear big labor to try to make that point last night that the interview was quickly steered back to the theory tea party message of fear of big government. eighty percent of her concern about labor those numbers were exactly reversed about thirty years ago people used to be more concerned about big labor than big business but as government has grown out of their more afraid of big government what does that say yes so here's what's really going on this this chart goes all the way back to one thousand nine hundred sixty five and in one thousand nine hundred sixty five big

business is the blue the red is big labor has to go take a look at that not so many people were worried about big business and a lot of people were concerned about big labor and some of the labor unions in one thousand nine hundred sixty five were actually fairly corrupt and people knew it they knew it but over time what we've seen is that the labor the power of labor has crashed and very into only eight percent of people now are worried about big labor twenty six percent however of americans are worried about big business and then you've got all the you know the whole variety of different ways and reasons people might be concerned about big government but i find this fascinating that these numbers that three times as many americans are worried about big business as they're worried about big labor this is i think a very meaningful statistic in the one nine hundred eighty s. reagan came into office and the fear of big business was brought about here fear big business starts to search and the fear of big labor plummets today big business is is. feared three times more than big labor yet oddly there's

a war on labor so the question is if republicans want to use this hole to gin up fear toward big government and use it to push their agenda to cut away the social safety net then shouldn't we also use this poll to crack down on the pervasive influence of big business should we go after the oil subsidies of the wall street bailouts should we put the reins on wall street to keep it from crashing our economy again should we be talking about enforcing the sherman antitrust act so that businesses can't just keep getting bigger and bigger bigger and. americans are always going to be wary of big government they rose up against it and seven hundred seventy six they feared it when this poll was first conducted in one thousand sixty five and they're wary of it today that's nothing new what's new is the fear of big business because in the past businesses were mostly small local and anchored in the community small local businesses looked after their communities they hired local they paid a good wage to support

a local middle class and they didn't use local lands as giant trash dumpsters because they lived nearby but today thanks to the rise of transnational corporations businesses don't give a damn about their community they'd rather hire workers halfway across the planet than just down the street they'd rather pay themselves bonuses and pay their workers enough to get by you know the as a c.e.o. pay used to be about thirty times that of the average worker today it's depending on the industry two hundred times three hundred times sometimes even two thousand times what they pay their average worker and they'd rather just dump their toxic waste in the local river than dip into their profits to dispose of it properly that's why americans fear big business a whole lot more today three times as much and that's why we need to do more to restrain corporations as grover cleveland present united states said in the midst of the nineteenth century gilded age the gulf between employers and the employed is constantly widening and classes are rapidly forming one comprising the very rich

and powerful while another are found the toiling poor corporations which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law the servants of the people are fast becoming the people's masters today we are in another gilded age and americans increasingly know it it's time to rein in corporate power go to move to amend to work for ways to keep corporations and their money out of our political process. as the big picture for tonight for more information on the stories we covered visit our website to tom hartman dot com free speech dot org an hour to dot com you can also check out our two you tube channels or a link to thom hartmann dot com this entire show is also available as a free video podcast on i tunes and we were free to martin i phone or i pad app at the app store he said his feedback and twitter atomosphere our facebook account for our blogs message boards and telephone comment line all over tom. and don't forget

democracy begins with you get out there and get active tag your it occupies something suitable. he.