watching. and i'm happy to report that dylan is back from his travels. he went west, he went north, but he's finally back in his extremely large studio. so much space. i'm like, oh, i might play a little basketball at the next commercial break. i swear! >> look at you! >> we'll put a hoop up over there. want to play some "pig" with me after this? >> yeah! >> one quick question. do you think they bring the whole things -- the clear the air you just did, about the religion and all this -- in order to distract us from the fact that they're bought and they're screwing us. if we're arguing about crime trees, we can't argue about both parties are being bought at auction and screwing the american people. >> i don't think they're using it as a distractive measure to move away from your argument about politicians being bought, but i do think they are desperate and using any kind of smear they can, particularly in this one about the president, who we know has already been subjected both during the presidential election and during his term, people have accused

him of not being an american, being a muslim, and this is playing into that nonsense. >> if only we could address the auctioning of all these people as opposed to all this nonsense. thank you, martin. show starts right now. well, the big story today, mixed up. good afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan, back in new york. nice to see you. when it comes to politics in this country, we've got plenty of cooks in the kitchen, except they're whipping up a recipe for disaster. the senate this afternoon voting down the same payroll tax cut extension they defeated last week, wasting all of our time on yet another bogus debate about jobs, when americans simply don't have time to waste. let's compare shopping lists, if you will. first, here's congress. they want to talk payroll tax cuts, emergency unemployment benefits, medicare reimbursement rates, and, oh, yeah, don't let the government shut down next week. that's their "to do" list. how about america's "to do" list? well, we need 30 million jobs and a wave of innovation in

health care, energy independence, and education. you get the point. nothing on washington's list even comes close to serving the interests of the american people to drive investment and job creation to solve our problems. remember, a payroll tax cut doesn't even help if you don't have a paycheck and one in five of us don't! americans have ordered jobs, 30 million of them, to be exact. we have all the ingredients to cook them up. people who are ready to work, problems to be solved. we just reviewed the list, and the money, albeit, offshore in a trade deficit or locked in a swaps market available, were we to reform banking taxes and trade to drive investment. we have all the ingredients, but we quite simply have the wrong recipe, one being baked by special interests, purchasing our politicians to invent them from initiating the very investment we so desperately need. we start with friend of the show, republican senator tom coburn of the finance committee. we can't even talk about these things, senator, if we don't

know what's going on. you recently, i guess just in the past day, made a significant victory for all of us, simply in letting us be better informed. tell us about the new disclosures you were just able to push in there. >> well, we haven't got it done yet, we've introduced it. but there's only one agency in the federal government that knows all their programs and that's the department of education. all the rest of the agencies have no idea what programs they're managing. so we have a bill that's the americans' right to know act. and what it says is every agency, every year has got to put online what they're doing, what the programs are, how much overhead is associated with them, what the duplication is in the rest of the government. we need all of those things out there so we can see. and educate america about our inefficiencies is the best way i know to change it. >> i could not agree with that more. and if you look at it, whether in your professional past history as a medical doctor or if you look at any of our colleagues and friends who work in businesses like engineering, building bridges, a real

mathematical problem solving, is it possible for a doctor or an engineer to solve a problem that he or she does not have the information to even access? >> you know, that's right. in february of this year, the gla put out a report on duplication, the first third of the government, which listed hundreds of millions -- correction, billions of dollars in duplication, and the congress has done nothing about eliminating it. >> excuse me. -- resistance to this transparency agenda? >> no -- yeah w, i do. i do. everybody will say, you can't make the agencies do that. that's just more work for the agencies. well, the only way we're ever going to get control of this government, and this has nothing to do with government employees, we've got a lot of great government employees, but we need to know what we're doing. wee need to know what the effect is, that it's having, and whether or not we're duplicating things. and what it costs to do it versus maybe doing it a different way or not doing it at

all. and remember, $1.4 trillion of what we spend every year comes through the discretionary budget, not medicare, not medicaid, not social security, not veterans, it comes through the discretionary. and when you have hundreds of billions of dollars every year being spent on programs -- let me, just a couple of examples. >> please. >> we have 82 federal teacher training programs. 82! >> totally -- and you're saying, there's no coordination between any of those two programs? >> no, none of them! >> 82 separate programs. >> so i'm running a program, and you're running a program, and 80 other separate people? you're going what you want and i'm doing what i want and we don't even talk? >> and then there's the role of the federal government to teach or train teachers in oklahoma. >> sure, sure. >> so, just, look, and where we find ourselves as a nation is we've spent 40 years growing a government that has become highly ineffective and highly inefficient. and we're going to have to make tough choices over the next two years to get our fiscal house in

order. and if we're going to truly create jobs, what we have to do is every dollar that the government spends has to be done properly. not wasteful, not duplicated, and not associated with fraud, which is, you know, there's $200 billion worth of fraud per year coming out of the federal government. >> and that's why i'm so enthusiastic about what you're trying to do. because if we don't have the visibility, we can't even make the assessment until you have a legitimate debate. so i compliment you on that effort. can i ask you about the electoral system itself for a second, as we're watching this debate for 2012 develop. and we've had this conversation a couple of times. you know i firmly believe that we need to amend the constitution in a way that separates business and state in a meaningful way. you've aggressively made the case about the incumbency bias, there's also issues with gerrymandering, issues about disproportionate power for people like me, because i'm on tv, which distorts the voice. at the end of the day, how do we govern a country, where the

electoral machine, the instrument that we use to measure the intentions of the people, the device or the tool, like measuring the temperature on a turkey, simply doesn't work because it's either being sold at auction, biased by incumbency or the media, or gerrymandered in some fashion? and how do you suggest, if you disagree with my assertion on money, per se, that we get an electoral system that can actually reflect the desire and intention of the american people as opposed to what we have now? >> yeah, i do disagree with you, dylan. i think the problem -- you're treeing symptoms of the problem and the problem's much bigger than that. the problem is is if you can buy me, no matter what rules you -- if there's any way you can buy me, they be i'm of no value to the people of oklahoma or this country. so how do you fix that problem? what you do is you -- first of all, you eliminate long-term service, by term limits, and let the american people decide what

that is. number two is the voters have the ability to fix this in the next few elections. don't keep re-electing career politicians. our problem is, these are great people, but the vast majority of them have no real-world experience outside of politics, and their goal is the next election, not the problems of the country. >> yeah. >> so if our focus is fixing the problem, no matter what happens to us, we're going to get a lot of problems solved. if our focus is who's going to be in power and who's going to be here the next election, the problems take short shrift. they're second behind what the primary goal of the politician is. so i'm a self-term limited senator. i agreed to never serve more than two terms. i won't serve more than two terms. that gives me a tremendous amount of power, because i'm going to do what's in the best interest of the country, and i don't care what somebody says or whether they support my election, because i'm not having another election. >> understood. at the same time, the ability to manipulate policy and prevent policy from having because of

the dependence on the money and the exist of the secret money is something that is so distorting that in addition to some of the points that you bring up, i maintain my objection to those things as well. we'll continue that debate. i want to ask you if i can for a second, away from the issues themselves, what your point of view is on the republican field and the ascendsy of newt gingrich as a possible candidate for president from your party? >> first of all, i think the race is too big of a mistake right now. that everybody's -- we've got all this focus, if you look back historically, whoever's ahead now is hardly ever the nominee. i think our problems are so big, we ought to be focusing on the problems. the second point oi'd make is none of them, including our president has said, tried y edi communicate what the real problems are to the country, and what their solutions are to fix these very problems. we're in the hearing that. >> nope. >> we're hearing everything but that. where's your hard-core plan to

fix our country and to put people back to work. how are you going to do it? how are you going to maintain the problem and maintain adequate health care for seniors. our problem right now, we haven't had any leadership to go out and explain and treat american people like adults. saying, here's the problems we have. everybody's going to take a pinch. those who are the more wealthy will take more of a pinch. but the way we get out of this problem is this. and list it out. i've done that. i've put out $9 trillion worth of changes, taken a lot of heat on it, but if we were to do, even though my plan isn't totally right, i readily admit that. if we were to do what i suggest tomorrow, which is $1 trillion in tax increases, okay, and $1 trillion out of the pentagon, but it's $9 trillion total, we would be rolling in this country economically. >> yeah. i couldn't agree with your assessment more forcefully, specifically the absence of the very framing of the conversation that this country in my view,

and clearly in your view, is desperate for in 2012, and neither the president nor the current contenders for the nomination are even engaging in that way. i believe that voices like yours, mine, and so many others, the louder, the better, are our best chance to do that, senator. and i thank you for giving me some of your time. and i congratulate you once again on your efforts for that first step of disclosure. >> all right. good to see you. >> you as well. talk to you soon. coming up here on "the d.r. show," how to lose $1 billion. jon corzine testifies today on capitol hill on the mf global fallout. did we get anything other than oops?! plus, your brain on money. what can a new test tell all of us about our relationship with cash and how it might save us from relationship stress this holiday? and what's in a yawn? turns out it might be more than you think. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil

but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth!

well, this afternoon, former senator new jersey governor jon corzine being questioned on capitol hill about his role in the collapse of mf global and the disappearance of the former goldman sachs ceo's new fund, which lost $1.2 billion in client money including, yes, pension funds. unfortunately, he wasn't long on, you know, answers. >> i simply do not know where the money is or why the accounts have not been reconciled today. i apologize, both personally and

on behalf of the company, to our customers, our employees, and our investors. >> former goldman sachs ceo, former u.s. senator, former governor of one of the wealthier states in our nation, i might add, lost $1 billion and apologizes because he doesn't know where it is?! the eighth largest bankruptcy in u.s. history, and his answer is, oops! as we dive into this, let's bring in our mega panel, msnbc political analyst, karen finney, susan del percio, and traveling professor of government, my goodness, what a title, at wesleyan university, mike williams. if you're wondering where jimmy, you have to know that this chair simply has to be occupied by a man whose last name is williams. thank you for laughing, karen.

the interesting dynamic here, and we were talking about -- susan, we were talking about this with the book and the swaps market, the swaps segment with "greedy bastard$!." there's one reason why i'm almost inclined to believe jon corzine, and it's this. because the credit default swap market is run in secret without anybody knowing -- no bank ceo knows what our exposures are. the central banks can't tell you what our exposures are. the federal reserve can't tell you what our exposures are. jamie dimon at jpmorgan can't tell you. jeff immelt can't tell you. i don't know that that's an explanation for why jon corzine doesn't know where his client money is, but all of this is incredibly instructive as to how what we thought were the most transparent and robust capital markets in the world are suddenly laden with all of these secrets that can end up losing $1 billion from a guy -- if he can't keep track of $1 billion, susan, who can?

>> i don't know, but i think what we're going to see is someone with his credentials really put through the ringer. and actually, we may get some transparency as a result of it, because i think he's going to be used as the example. he is going to get it worse than anybody, and perhaps, maybe we'll be fortunate to figure out where that $1 billion went and how it got there. >> mike williams? >> well, it strikes me that just thil as highlights, the lack of trust that the american people have in leadership, whether it's economic leadership or government leadership, and the fact that there's no transparency in the system. we have a system that's so overregulated, we have no idea what's going on. and if you look north, look to the canadians, they have one major regulator, they got rid of glass-steagall 20 years, investment banks work as regular banks. >> but they have capital requirements. you need a one-page regulation that says, you must have money if you want to do business. interesting, karen, to look at tom coburn's legislation on disclosure in the senate. the complete abundance of

evidence to the lack of transparency in the european debt markets, with the fed, with the swaps lines last week to bail out the european debt markets. do you agree at the very least that all of this will help push us towards better transparency? i know that the swaps market was still really unreformed, even though there were aspects of dodd/frank that aspired to do that. >> you know, dylan, i don't know. i think there's a larger metaproblem, if you will. and that's this sort of culture we've come to where nobody's really responsible. i didn't hear jon corzine say, i don't know, but i'm responsible. right? he apologized, he hemmed and hawed it's this lack of responsibility. we talked about it with penn state, we've talked about it time and time again. there's a bigger problem in our culture when people can't be big boys and girls and step up to the plate and say, you know, what, it was my fault. i'm responsible. and then let's fix it. but let's also acknowledge that we have a responsibility, by the

way, to not let it happen in the first place. my teacher used to say to this to me which i was a teenager. teenagers will always get away with as much as they think they can. adults are the same. maybe it will lead to greater transparency, but as a part of that, we have to begin to accept more responsibility before things like this happen. >> 100%. and i think that's why the muck raking around exposing the auction, around exposing the complete and luutter lack of opacity is the beginning of catalyzing the energy that will be necessary to do this. away from this, and it's an interesting dynamic, because i have plenty of criticisms for eric holder, although this will be a new one for my list. on capitol hill today, our favorite attorney general, the man who's been really looking out for americans when it comes to the banking system and foreclosure with a total of zero indictments for anybody for anything, well, some republicans are now threatening eric holder on a different issue with impeachment. interesting that they wouldn't want to impeach him without the

banks, right? they don't mind the bank thing either, apparently, but they do mind the botched fast and furious gun trafficking program. the goal was to let guns walk over the border in mexico and let the feds inside illegal weapons networks. a sting operation, if you will. but the problem was, they failed to track the guns when they came in. we just said, eh, bring in some guns. many guns later showing up at crime scenes. one used to kill a u.s. border agent. here's what holder said at a house hearing. >> we cannot allow the tragic mistakes of operation fast and furious to become a political sideshow or a series of media opportunities. as we work to avoid future losses and further mistakes, it is unfortunate that some have used inflammatory and inappropriate rhetoric about one particular tragedy that occurred near the southwest border in an effort to score political points. >> very interesting that the republicans would decide to go after eric holder on this. and it's not that this is not -- you read it and you're like, this is crazy, it's screwed up, all the rest of it.

but we have yet to see obama, eric holder, or the republicans address the major justice issue in this country, which is the bank scandal that we started in 2008, so it's a two-part question. one, your thoughts on what he is being indicted for. and two, what the heck -- why are they not pressuring -- why are the republicans not pressuring this guy to deal with the banks? >> to answer the first question, it goes back to karen, i think, what she said about accountability, which is a real problem. he has yet to step forward and say, this was my responsibility. he keeps putting it off. it just opens the the door. this guy has been bad for the administration on everything -- >> susan, these programs started under bush. >> but still -- >> but karen, that wasn't the point she was making. finish your point. >> he has to be -- say he's accountable. he's also had a problem visually with this -- representing this administration. whether it's not doing anything on the banking or even when he wanted to bring the 9/11 bombers to trial in new york city. he's just shown poor judgment. >> and the issue of justice is central, for instance, to the occupation. and a sense of injustice

prevails over this country in the tea party, in the occupation, it really prevailed over the support for president obama in his election. and yet we have not seen that justice rendered. and now we're looking at the man who we've been seeing for years now as the sheriff of our country. interested in your thoughts, both in this, mike, and also, again, the republican's decision to target him for this and not the banks. >> what's funny about it, it comes down again to the responsibility ethic and politicization. at the end of the day, we just had another issue here with the consumer protection agency, that's supposed to protect consumers. they wouldn't affirm the leader. and there's no one leading the organization and they're scoring points. it's not about diagnosing the problem and who's right and who's wrong, we always have to score. and i think they're going after him on this because they know they can win. and they want to divert attention from where they don't want, which is where the money comes from that keeps the whole game in play. that's why they're not focusing on wall street. i was asked the other day by a student, what do you think about the occupy people being kicked out of zuccotti the park.

i said, it's kind of funny when they're arresting people and pepper spraying students when not a single person has been arrested for what happened in 2008. and the risk-taking was criminal. >> the risk-taking, there's clear evidence of fraud in the sale of the securities. >> but i don't think the democrats want -- >> of course they don't! what do you think -- eric holder's like -- >> it's everyone's money. that's it. and the democrats are often more hypocritical, often, than the republicans are. i hate to say that as a democrat, but -- >> karen, i'm going to -- real quick? you get the last word. >> i think it's important to note on fast and furious, holder actually has taken responsibility. he is undergoing an investigation. it is a program that started under bush. and i think that matters because it goes to the point that this is all about politics. you had darrell issa earlier in the process saying he didn't know anything about the program. then it turns out that he'd been briefed on the program. that's the circus of what's going on behind us. >> and that's why the approval rating is 10%. and why somebody like me and so many others are able to have the voice and have the conversation

that we have, because people want to have this conversation and they know that there's a lot of nonsense over there. one thing that is not nonsense, however, this is a fun thing coming up here. your money mind, what kind of a mind do you have when it comes to the cash in your wallet? are you a giver? maybe a protector? perhaps you're simply a pleasure seeker. our specialist tells us about a new online game that could change not just relationship with money, but with your loved ones too. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of a pain free holiday. ♪

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ah, money. our world revolves around it, and from the beginning, we're told what many is, but we're never told what money should be or how it relates to our deeper psychology, our fears, our desires, our ambitions. today's specialist is unveiling

his new web experience right here on "the d.r. show," and it's called "your money mind," and it helps determine what money means to you and how you can make financial decisions with a better understanding of how your brain reacts when you talk about it. so when it comes to money, are you driven by fear? are you driven by commitment? or are you driven by a pursuit of happiness? let's find out from joe duran, ceo of private capital, i took his test and so did the panel. joe is here to go over the results of that. before we do that, what is your goal in creating this? >> we have two goals. the first is to understand how their own biases affect their decision making. because the way we make decisions about money affect our entire life. the second one, especially given the time of year it is, is to help people interact and talk about money in a way that reduces the stress, because when you have two different perspectives about what money is meant to do, it's a natural cause of concern and elevation

of tension that occurs. >> at the holiday table. >> yeah. >> i want to show folks at home some of the questions that you had me answer and susan and mike and karen, along with my -- the staff of my entire show. just so that people can get a flavor of sort of what you're doing here. question number one says, "yikes, the plane is going down," i thought that yesterday on the show the other way from boston. the turbulence was terrible. "yikes, the plane is going down. what's your first impulse?". one, text the people you care about. two, have a shot of vodka and grab the person next to you. three, grab a safety vest and follow the procedures. i'm going to do two more examples of these questions and you tell us what you're getting at. question number two. the bill arrives for the big party that you threw for your best friend, susan. what are you thinking? do some work around the house? no. spend some time with the people i love. that's always nice. sounds good. take a great little trip. question number three, oh, no,

your work hours just got cut, what's your plan? one, worry what it may mean to your loved ones, two, live frug frugally, three, continue your spending habits. what's going on here? >> we don't want to ask questions that are directly related to money. because people think they know the right answer. everyone asked a question that what should you do with your money will typically say is prudent answer. so what we found, if you don't actually ask a question that is directly related to money, but how you react to a situation that has financial implications, you get a much more honest response and get to the driving motivation of what you think when a crisis situation or surprise situation occurs. and money almost always, every discussion occurs when a situation arises you were not expecting, and now you have to resolve it. so your impulse is to revert to a certain -- >> your loser brain. >> yeah, exactly, your impulse. >> so you break it into three categories. fear mind, commitment mind, and

happiness mind. quickly, what are those threes and then let's cut to the headlines and see what we're dealing with. >> fear mind is driven by a chase for security, or protection. and their primary goal is to find peace of mind. and they will do everything, including sacrifice and defer pleasure today to find a way to find comfort and peace of mind. they're the people who will work the hardest and enjoy the least. >> okay. >> they're the people working very hard that are unhappy. >> that expect everyone to suffer along with them. the pleasure seeker is the exact opposite, dylan, and i say that particularly -- >> thank you, joe. >> wants to enjoy life. works every day knowing that they're doing it to enjoy it. europeans very good at doing that. and generally knows that they are maximize their life. doesn't have enough moon to do everything they want, doesn't have enough time. and the commitment lives to give pleasure and happy tonniness to people around them. they are driven by a need to satisfy and give to those around. and a lot of people in the media industry, which is interesting, it's usually a small percentage,

only 15 to 20% of the population. here you have almost half your staff a commitment, which tells you how much they want to impact society. >> so let's cut to the chase. as you suggested, we all took the test. first, let me show you the staff and how that turned out. 42% of the staff is commitment focused. 42% of the staff is a happiness focus. and 16% of the staff is a fear focus. out here on the set, karen, susan, and mike were owl fear focus, and your friendly neighborhood host is happiness focused, which makes me think they're probably just afraid of me. >> that's possible. >> with all the yelling and screaming. so, anyway, what do we do? the real question is what do we do with this information once we have it? >> there's two things you need to do. first, for your own decision making is to know that when you're facing a decision, you're more likely to sacrifice today unnecessarily because you're envisioning outcomes that are probably worse than any you'll actually experience. so you're expecting a doomsday scenario, when you probably

won't experience something that bad. so you're protecting yourself against things that probably won't happen. so our job as your adviser is to help you enjoy life a little bit more. and tell you it's okay to take the vacation. it's okay to buy the nice couch. because your inclination is to protect automatically for doomsday scenarios. >> and what about happiness characters like myself. >> for you, what we would tell you is, look, you need to plan for a bad outcome. because it's not going to turn out as optimistically as you would like, as well as you would like. my job is to rein you in and say, look, you've got to plan for a potential bad outcome. >> what about the commitment mind? >> the most important to tell the commitment people is, look, find a way not to listen so much to everyone and take care of yourself. make sure you have people you can trust around you, because you're very easily taken advantage of. and the second thing is, how do you interact to avoid the fights? we give you, by a psychiatrist, a note of how to communicate. if you do this online, it's totally free, and make sure you e-mail it to yourself, because

you get a full report. >> what's the website? >> it's honestconversations.com. >> wonderful. >> very simple to go to. it's all free. really fun. it takes five minutes. >> it's a great thing at lunch when you should be working, you can just logon and play joe's honest conversation, if you can't -- you know, anyway, it's a really wonderful thing. congratulations on making it. and thank you for sharing it with you. i'm sure i didn't get a chance to really talk to him. i used you as props, basically. you're so attractive and smart, it was worth it. >> it was out of fear that i didn't -- >> see, i don't even let her talk! karen, thank you so much. susan, mike, a pleasure. joe, thank you very much. honestconversations.com if you're interested in that. we're moving forward here. and if you yawn much, it turns out it may not be a sign you're bored or sleepy. so what does it mean? we'll tell you after this. i habe a cohd.

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well, the next time you accidentally yawn in front of a friend or relative or even a boss, don't be ashamed, tell them it's a sign you care about them. scientists now believe that contagious yawning or yawning after someone else does is actually a sign of empathy and that you're truly interested in their thoughts and feelings. italian researchers studied groups of folks as they went about their daily lives and found that the greatest effect on whether someone else caught a yawn was how well they knew the other person. it turns out the reciprocal yawn was most likely to happen among family members, then among friends, and then among casual acquaintances. there you go, mom, stop worrying. i'm not overtired, i just love you. straight ahead, jobs first. reframing the political conversation for 2012 around the issues that actually matter to america. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose.

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exactly how many jobs we need and how you need to talk about solving it. much more on that to come. but right now, two of our friends have started their own initiative to tackle unemployment at scale, and they are taking it straight to the caucusgoers at the jobs first 2012 roundtable in iowa tomorrow. we're here with the founder of jobs first 2012 and cochair of the task force on jobs creation, leo hindery and matt siegel, cofounder of our time. leo, you brought this to our attention years ago. if you don't address the scale of the problem, you can't solve the problem. how are you framing this in the context of your trip to iowa? >> well, dylan, you framed it for matt and myself and your listeners pretty well with your lead. it's a 30 million women and men problem, dylan. and when you say that the government acknowledges the the problem, sadly, they don't. if this entire congress that's

sitting behind here in washington here tonight, i'll be heading in later tonight to see matt in iowa tomorrow, if they would acknowledge that we, in fact, do have 30 million women and men who are in real terms unemployed, over 10 million of them, dylan, for more than a year, very disadvantaged at the older worker, very disadvantaged at the entry-level worker, then we would stop this sort of partisan bickering that's been going on now throughout this entire congress. and as americans, republicans, democrats alike, we would be addressing this jobs issue. and that's what matt and his colleagues and i are trying to do in iowa, and we'll be doing it later on throughout all of the caucus and primary states, is just asking the women and men who want to represent us in congress, some in the white house, that are they going to do to address that 30 million jobs problem that you allude to. >> and matt, i asked senator tom coburn at the top of the show what he thought of the

republican field. his criticism was simple. he said he hasn't seen anybody in the republican field, or if that matter in the white house, even discuss the actual issues. i want to know whether you share that assessment of the quality of the presidential debate. do you feel they're even talking about the things that concern you and those that you're associated, and what do you think you and leo, do you believe that you can help, along with the rest of us, to force them to actually have the debate america deserves? >> well, dylan, like we've talked about, i feel most politicians these days are just indentured servants to special interests, and they're putting their re-elections certainly above the public interests. so we haven't seen a very inspiring debate. i thought the president's speech in kansas was inspiring. i like the fighter in him, and i liked the fact that he called income inequality the issue of our time. and one of the things that leo and i are going to raise tomorrow is the fact that young people who don't have their

first job by the age of 25, they're going to earn anywhere from 10 to 20% less the rest of their life. and that is a crisis. so we need to get people to work right away. and the way we're going to have to do that is a variety of ways, but we need a whole new public service infrastructure in this country and an investment in the sense that rather than have unemployed teams during the summer who are going to get in gangs and get in crime and then have to go to prison and a burden on the state, and take these people to joplin, missouri, for disaster relief, or have them take care of the seniors for geriatric care of our rising grandparents' generation. or have us all solve our energy crisis by making buildings more efficient for retrofitting and weatherization purposes. these are the kind of forward-looking things that my generation sees as a no-brainer, but for some reason, we just can't get along and act like

adults in washington to do. >> and the big barrier, leo, is not a lack of people to do the things that matt was describing, and it's obviously not a matter of problems to solve. there's an abundance. and for that matter, it's not even a lack of capital. there's a flow of capital on the planet and in this country that could easily be moving in the directions that matt was describing, but reversing those capital flows in tax policy, in trade policies with china, with our banking policies is directly disruptive to the special interests that fund our politicians. and i just don't see how you can get money flowing into america using tax, trade, and bank policy to create these jobs when those very same interests are the ones that are paying our congress not to do it. >> you know, dylan, as i sit here and listen to you, and earlier, just a moment ago, to matt, there is not a shortage of women and men that need our attention, whether they be young or older workers. the numbers are catastrophic, as matt described. the other thing is, there's not a shortage of ideas.

there's not a shortage of capital. we know how to do this in a way that is not budget busting. we need tax reform to help it happen, for sure. we need trade policy reform to also help it happen. what we don't seem to have is political will. and when you had senator tom coburn, a conservative republican from oklahoma on your show earlier, that wonderful balance that the senator spoke about, which is what we're trying to impress as well, this cannot be any longer a partisan issue. it's an american political issue for republicans and democrats alike, and what matt and his colleagues tomorrow, and i'll try to help as well, we're going to start by exciting tomorrow some of the younger workers who are feeling the pinch like their older friends and grandparents, as matt described. but it's sort of a womb-to-tomb process right now, that we have to go through as a nation. we have to help the young

entry-level worker, as matt articulated so well, dylan, and with we have to help that older worker and everybody in between, and the number's about 30 million. >> do you think that it is clear, matt, to your constituents, that the people exist and the problems exist, and the money exists! and the only thing that's missing is a set of gating in policies, an orchestra of policies around energy independence, around infrastructure, around improved health, and that the failure to create those gates and drive that money is a direct function of the political dysfunction? do you think people are starting to understand that? >> yeah. in fact, some of the people who are occupying wall street right now are saying, we need socialism for start-ups, not for big banks. big banks have no competition. we have start-up monopolies. but start-ups are fighting to make it off the ground every day, they're doing well. and our buy young initiative buys these entrepreneurs all the

time. we want to see where are the government-backed protections for us. where is the free health care for us? where is the state-backed, you know, insurer that we have that can take risk for our start-up and have it backed by the taxpayer like banks do. that's what the young people are curious about every day. >> or at the very least, that platinum citizenship right before our eyes. i'm thrilled about the opportunity to work with the two of you not just today, but in the months to come as we launch into this 30 million jobs campaign as a group and really try to drive people to understand each of those major ecosystems that can create these jobs from infrastructure to energy. congratulations, yesman, on where you are and i'm excited to go where we're going. leo hindery and matt siegel, check them out in iowa tomorrow. again, jobs first, 2012. coming up here on "hardball," chris digging into the day in politics. mitt romney's attack on newt has become, and it's on two fronts, professional and personal.

but will going negative actually bring newt down a notch? and next, here, however, the week in cheat with our resident expert in extraction, jeff chrysler. [ male announcer ] if you think tylenol is the pain reliever orthopedic doctors recommend most for arthritis pain, think again. and take aleve. it's the one doctors recommend most for arthritis pain... two pills can last all day. ♪ hey, hey, hey, hey. i can see who's on my network people! lance? lance? yes, yes you are next. all right. dave, i'm in. ♪ katie! what are you doing, sweetheart? supplementing my allowance. how long have we been gone? [ male announcer ] get low prices on the latest 4g phones, starting at $28.88. save money. live better. walmart.

all right. time now for a little cheat chat with this week's headlines. and first and obvious one, our good friend and neighbor, jon corzine and his missing money. i think it's a billion or two. jeff, take it away. >> what excites me or gets me fired up about this is the employees of mf global are now suing corzine, and this gets me fired up because they're the

greedy bastards. >> you say they're suing corzine because they want their bonuses? >> they think that he ruined the stock price by doing something illegal. it's like going to a whorehouse and complaining about chlamydia. what do they think? they're working for an investment firm run by the former governor of new jersey who used to run goldman sachs. >> levered it 44 to 1. >> do they think they're selling teddy bears to war vets. it upsets me because i just had a kid, very excited, but i'm worried about the type of america that he's going to grow up. what happened to the america with you can get taken advantage of by someone even more greedy, you don't sue them, you get revenge with a tell-all book or something. if these bankers that worked for corzine really wanted to have a safe investment policy, instead of going after a guy that can't find $1.2 billion, just buy a powerball ticket. >> up next, donald trump -- they

would have lost the money. donald trump playing the apprentice for republicans. he's going to be the kingmaker. your thoughts? >> i think this is beautiful. who better in this republican primary than the self-promoter in chief. and you finally saw that newt met him. newt is so excited. have you seen newt? he's like a baby who just found a bowl of taffy or a new trophy wife. he is fired up and they are a perfect match. donald trump convinces us he is a big success when he's really just a failed investor and a tester of futuristic hairpieces. newt tells us he's really smart. why not combine forces? they're like tweedledee and tweedletrump. trump is hosting his own debate, i think newt is going to host a debate, in his pants. that's a christmas bonus. >> finally, i want to talk about some good times, but it does look like it's bye-bye, blago. this will appear to fly in the face of your, dare i say it, too

cynical narrative of america, in a place where this cheating is so prevalent, where there's some justice for an explicitly corrupt politician by the name of rod. >> bear in mind, blogovich didn't actually cause a financial crisis. it's not like big things being held responsible. i am disappointed. i'm disappointed he didn't take my advice. he's not a great chatteater. he has the potential. this is a guy you've got to love. he literally auctions off government. i think his hair hides little tiny auctioneers. sold! he shouldn't have hid it. >> let's look at blagojevich's handling of his scandal and corzine's handling of his scandal where he's just, i can't -- i don't -- i've got to go. >> ignorance! >> you actually believe that losing $1 billion and saying you don't know where it is is a much better strategy for getting over on the system than the blagojevich? >> absolutely. i think the public's mind can

can't wrap their heads around billions or trillions, so that you get away with scot-free. if you steal a car or a piece of piz pizza, you go away for the rest of your life. you have to think big. you have to get super rich. >> the key is to go -- if you're going to take money, go for in excess of $100 million. >> $100 million is the cutoff. with inflation, we can cut it off. >> thanks very much, and congrats on the new son. >> thank you, free white -- not free. white baby for sale on ebay. >> not for free. i want to let you know about one piece of information that happened in the senate this afternoon which was very exciting, which is senator bernie sanders introducing a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics. it is not perhaps as thorough as somebody as myself might like, but it is yet another step in the great 28 debate and we look forward to having him on to discuss that. and to enroll you in that conversation as we continue the