roots and the newspapers and the net works and how to win the battle there. then we step into history with doug brinkley of rice university against sam tanahouse of the "new york times." what does history tell us about what race president obama would be smart to run? the great democratic debate tonight one hour from now here on msnbc. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. now it's time for politics nation with the reverend al sharpton. >> chris, great show. i really like your sermonette. let me finish. let me get started so i can also watch at 7:00 when you come back live. >> great. tonight on this show, hey, republicans, do you have a texas sized problem? >> i'm a governor. i don't have the pleasure of standing on the stage and criticizing. i have to deal with these issues. >> day two of silence from rick perry on the racial slur and his texas hunting lodge. his campaign says, it's been

painted over. but you can't keep this one covered up for long, governor perry. tonight rick perry hits rock bottom. it's the new ugly in the republican party. >> we have the deepest bench in the republican party now. >> some bench, senator. chris christie, still feeling his way along. >> i'm listening to every word of it and feeling it, too. >> richard wolffe and earn mcpike on the gop's slim picking. plus, they want you to believe they're as american as apple pie but the republicans' biggest bank rollers are hiding a sinister secret. as the president demands action -- >> pass it, get it to my desk. >> the wall street protest spreads to other cities. >> the people united! >> is this the protest movement to make big business do the right thing?

politics nation starts right now. welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, the president made his move. but how will the republicans respond? another white house battle cry as president obama calls on congress to pass his jobs bill. >> it's been several weeks now since i set up the american jobs act and as i've been saying on the road i want it back. i'm ready to sign it. i will be continuing to put as much pressure as i can bring to bear on my administration and our agencies to do everything we can without congress's help, but ultimately they've got to do the right thing for the american people. >> do the right thing. pass the american jobs bill.

and put 1.9 million back to work. seems simple enough. right? wrong. apparently congressional republicans are not up for the challenge. today majority leader eric canter said the president's jobs bill is dead in the house. in fact, he called the president's plan to pass the package as, quote, unacceptable. what's unacceptable, congressman? what's unacceptable, mr. canter? is 9.1% unemployment? that's what's more unacceptable and more unacceptable than that is your party's refusal to fix it while people are clamoring for change. this weekend 700 protesters from the occupy wall street movement were arrested. fed up with the economy and this country's social inequality. even though this movement started just a few weeks ago with the handful of people, it's

already spreading and the protests are already taking shape around the country. several hundred rallied in los angeles, in boston. protesters took the steps of the massachusetts state house today. and similar scene in chicago's financial district. people are saying, jobs. the economic order must be straightened. the big people at the top, the rich cannot keep having the comfort while the poor and working class given the discomfort. civil rights groups, labor groups joining all of us on the 16th of october and the 15th of october is the big march for jobs and justice in washington, the dedicating king memorial. people are mobilizing, organizing, and going forward. we need change now. joining me now, former michigan governor jennifer granholm, the

author of "a governor's story, a fight for jobs and america's economic future." thanks for coming on the show tonight, governor. >> reverend al, so glad to be on. >> governor, the fight for jobs. there's a lot going on and i'm going to talk about the night governor perry and all the politics but there is nothing more important than the fight for jobs. you had that fight as governor. you see now what is happening in your state. they're laying people off for foodstamps and welfare roles. people -- children may suffer. where are we and what do we need to do? >> i think everybody recognizes that this long, persistent unemployment suggests that there's something else going on and our economy that hasn't been present before. what that is, reverend al, and what we learned in michigan is that the structure of our nation's economy has changed because of globalization, because we've seen 42,000

factories close in the united states this past decade. just since 2008 over 8 million jobs lost in the manufacturing sector. so what's going on is that globalization has made it easy for capital, for jobs to flow to other countries. and we aren't doing anything about it as a nation. we are not standing up to create a good business case for those businesses to remain in the united states. we're not taking them on, taking other countries on at the world trade organization to fight to keep jobs in america. we're not playing offense or defense in partnership. >> we're also seeing, governor, that the right wing, the republican crowd, are more extreme and inflectionibxible t we've ever seen. i want to show you something a little surprising to me. i want to show you a president of this united states that says let's be fair to working people and make the wealthy pay their share.

let me show you what this president had to say. >> we're going to close the unproductive tax loop holes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. in theory some of those loop holes were understandable but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing while a bus driver was paying 10% of his salary. that's crazy. do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less? >> that's beautiful. >> do you think the millionaire should pay more or less than the bus driver? what is the difference between ronald reagan saying that in 1985 and in president obama saying today should warren buffet be paying less taxes percentage wise than his secretary? it's the same thing. >> it is the same thing. there is no difference between the two except for the person who is delivering the remarks. the difference is of course now that the republican party has been hijacked, frankly, by the

tea party and those on the far right, the republican party of ronald reagan who they claim to revere would not be as extreme as this current republican party is. frankly, you know, the president has put forward suggestions and proposals in the jobs act that have been proposed by republicans in the past, supported by many who are still in congress and yet because he's articulating it they are saying, no. it's not rational. what they are doing. and frankly the solutions that they're proposing, reverend al, the same old trickle down solutions. they didn't work under president bush. they are still not working yet those are the solutions they continue to put forward. we need to look at throwing out the old theories and adopting a uniquely american policy that saves manufacturing jobs, that puts people to work in this country, and it means an active, not a big government, but an active government on our side. >> but they're not talking about big government. they're talking about no government, letting the wealthy call the shots.

i never agreed politically with ronald reagan but they are more antireagan than you and i could ever be when you listen to what reagan said. what they're doing is a mockery to what ronald reagan stood for. the american people, look at this poll of how american people feel about taxing the rich. the nbc/"wall street journal" journal poll, 56% said raise taxes on the wealthy. 66% on the gallop poll. pew poll 67%. ronald reagan, who they use his name in memory said, do you think a rich guy should be paying less taxes than a working class mail man? what are we talking about? these people are extremists for the rich. >> and what's happening, reverend al, is when you continue to put -- what they say, if you don't want to raise taxes on job providers, everybody understands that. but they're not providing jobs in america. a lot of the jobs that are being created, especially by the

multinational corporations are frankly those who are investing to be able to get the benefit of capital gains. they're investing in a global market. where are the multinational corporations maximizing their shareholder return? in the global market place. they're not investing in the u.s. we have to tie tax policy to job creation in the u.s. when the president puts that in his jobs act saying that you get a tax credit for hiring people in the united states, saying we're going to invest in infrastructure, which will hire american nurses, american construction workers. >> right. >> american teachers, those are jobs in america both public and private sector. >> when you talk about getting jobs for america and protecting americans that's patriotic, isn't it? thank you, governor granholm. >> it sounds good doesn't it? >> thank you. >> you bet. happy birthday, reverend al. >> thank you so much. >> i hear today is your birthday. >> my birthday gift was that ronald reagan tape. >> that's a beautiful thing. >> our researchers gave it to me. i loved it. i'll be rolling it over and over

again. >> all right. >> joining me now from lower manhattan near wall street is harrison schultz, one of the organizers of the occupy wall street. harrison, thank you for coming on the show. >> thank you for having me, reverend. happy birthday thank you. tell us a little about the movement that's going on in wall street. >> the movement down here is incredibly exciting. it is incredibly exhilarating and honestly my opinion as a professional sociologist, i think this is the beginning of a revolution in this country. >> a revolution going toward what? what are the goals? i've seen an excitement. i really love the way that there's been discipline and nonviolence except on the other side. but what are the goals? when you say a revolution, where are you taking this? >> the fact that we don't have a coherent set of goals is what the media has been blasting us the most for but the fact of the matter is that the problems in this country, that this country is going through are very complicated. and so the discussion that we're

having isn't simple but a very complicated discussion as well. democracy takes time and the conversations that we're having are the conversations that leaders and politics and economics and in the media should be having but really aren't. so we have to do it ourselves. >> so really, you're showing the discontent and trying to force the conversation to have a realistic dialogue about what ought to be the real priorities and the real solutions in this country. >> yes. the best way to look at occupy wall street in my opinion is to think of it as a conversation, a big conversation that needs to be had. that the media, our leaders just aren't having. >> now -- >> we're getting into trouble for these conversations with the nypd. >> now, i notice you have people from all walks of life, all racial backgrounds. do all of the elements there that are involved from different parts of society, do they all want the same thing? do they want different things? it's about having a conversation

so everyone can discuss what it is they want? >> the thing that we all want, the thing we all agree on in my opinion, and i can only speak from my perspective. >> i understand. >> is we're all here for change. we all want something different. we all want something better. as far as the specifics, as far as how we go about doing that, we don't know yet. part of the problem, i think, part of the issue is that a lot of the people that are here are in fact anarchists, are in fact revolutionaries, and putting a revolution, putting a revolutionary change into political terms is very difficult to do because we're trying to get away from all of the problems. again, we don't want to fix them. it's revolution not reform. >> harrison schultz of the occupy wall street movement. thanks for coming on the show tonight. we'll be seeing you. let me say this to a lot of people that have watched this. it's easy to dismiss movements. it's easy to say, i don't understand the purpose. i don't understand the point.

the point is there's a lot of discontent. even if people don't know as he said what their formula is to make things right, they do know things are wrong. there is something wrong when we see rampant unemployment, yet we want to protect tax loop holes for the rich. when we see people being put off of rolls that are children, there are those that will respond in different ways. we're marching in washington on october 15th. they are all over the country with occupation wall street. laborers movement. the real point is that change must come and the only thing that is clear is sitting down, doing nothing has gotten us where we are. we cannot have as martin luther king said the paralysis of analysis. we must move. ahead, chris christie's decision could be any day now. but the skeletons are already

flying out of the closet. and rick perry's race controversy. an explosive report on a cab he leased could spell more trouble. and why a coordinated effort by the right to suppress the vote is more widespread than anyone could have imagined. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. the postal service is critical to our economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ?

a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it.

rick perry's team on damage control after a shocking report about his ties to a hunting camp with the "n" word in his name. but why is governor perry's side? that's next. yeah, maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit.

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at the very least a west texas hunting camp with his father leased with the "n" word in its name. according to the report the offensive name was painted on a rock on the property for decades. perry's camp quickly responded saying, quote, perry's father painted over offensive language on a rock soon after leasing the 1,000 acre parcel in the early 1980s. regardless of what was painted on the rock, we've learned the name may have been well known in that area. the "new york times" caught up with perry's old scout master's

son who says the hunting camp had always been known by that name. it's just what it was called from day one. i personal liam not offended by the name. and i donenn't like the word. that's just what people call it. meanwhile we still haven't heard any response from perry, himself, on this issue. it would seem to me that one is not trying to say mr. perry is or is not a racist. it is whether he would tolerate racial language and whether he would tolerate the use of direct offensive language if he's running for the president of the united states and it would seem to me he would have showed up today and at least explained himself, talking through spokesmen either means, one, you can't explain yourself, or, you may have something that's unexplainable that we haven't heard yet. what is it, governor perry? inquiring minds want to know.

joining me now, mia henderson political reporter for "the washington post" and alex wegner an msnbc analyst. thank you both for joining me. let me start with you, alex. i heard the story yesterday. my immediate reaction of course was i was offended by this race being called that. then they start digging into the weeds when it was called and all but nobody has denied it was called that. >> yeah. >> nobody has denied that the rock was there that named it and no one has said affirmatively mr. perry never saw it and what he said about it. there is all sort of decoy around the edges. >> yeah. >> i just knew rick perry, you know, the swinging cowboy who shoots at everything, was coming out guns blazing today. nothing. >> yeah. i think it's really called -- there's been a flair tiff thus far about is rick perry ready for primetime and this i think really furthers that line of questioning. we are talking about the office of the president of the united

states here. there are 40 million african-americans in this country. they make up 13% of the population. it seems like perry doesn't have a sense or a grasp of what that word means. and i think at this time almost more so than any time in history, we really need not only a leader but someone who can unite the country and he just seems to be completely absent from the conversation. >> now, mia, herman cain on abc yesterday, he had this response himself. >> it's very insensitive and since governor perry has been going there for years to hunt, i think it shows a lack of sensitivity for a long time of not taking that word off that rock and renaming the place. it's a case of insensitivity. >> if you've got feverybody fro herman cain to al sharpton calling it insensitive that doesn't give you a lot of room. >> you heard michael steele come out today and basically say that and ask a question that is on a

lot of people's minds also which is why didn't he have the rock removed? there is one thing to sort of paint over it but why not, you know, just move it off the property? i think one of the things this raises is the underlying question about this story is what did rick perry do when faced with intolerance? according to the story he sort of painted it over rather than really confronting it, moving the rock away. and i think that's what the troubling issue is for a lot of people. not the whole idea of whether or not he's a racist. you have african-americans in texas coming out saying they don't think he is a racist. in fact the rick perry campaign, their sort of offense on this story is in one way to sort of try to poke holes in the reporting and of course "the washington post" stands by the reporter and the reporting in the story but now they're saying that rick perry actually had a pretty good record in terms of hiring african-americans over the course of his ten-year tenure. he hired about 9% african-americans out of the 5,000 or so people he put in positions. >> did he see the rock and did he do anything about the rock?

no one is saying he didn't have a record with blacks. no one is saying that he was a racist. the question is, did he in facing something that is as biased as this just allow it? you can tolerate stuff without saying that that's your feelings but if you tolerate it, then should you be leading the state let alone the country? that is the issue. >> especially given the history of race in the south in particular and on the heels of haley barbour and his comments. this is a time when rick perry should be pivoting and coming out saying this is what i think and what i know. given his history and background he has an incredible biography and he can speak to hardship. this is a time to put that all in context yet he is seemingly having his spokes people go through the tick to being of when the rock was painted and when it was moved and so forth which as you said is avoiding the main issue which is what is going on here? with racism and intolerance in

this country and in that part of the country. >> we saw, nia, george allen in his race with the line that was derogatory when he used the term, well let me show you him using the term of what happened. >> so welcome. let's give a welcome here. welcome to america and the real world of virginia. >> now this is a 2006 race, senate. he used the term. said he didn't know what the term meant. then find out that he comes from a background where it is likely they did and he ended up having that kind of sunk his race that time. i mean, come on. we're not raising questions on perry that haven't been raised before. i think the insult that has been added to the injury here is he won't even come forth himself and say anything.

>> right. that's true. i think, you know, all eyes are on this debate that's coming up next tuesday that "the washington post" is sponsoring. it'll certainly come up there. maybe it won't come up directly from the questioners because it is a debate about the economy but you wonder if one of those folks on stage will bring it up. one of the things that i thought of in reading this story is not only this incident that you raise with george allen, but with mitt romney himself. he faced questions when he ran before about his affiliation with the mormon church. >> right. >> and of course we know the mormon church until 1978 denied blacks the priesthood. and being able to go to temple ceremonies because there was an idea on the part of their doctrine that they were inferior. >> that's where i'm saying there is a double standard, alex. because we question romney because of the history of the church he was a member of. >> sure. >> which he dealt with. we questioned the statement. they questioned senator obama about a church he was a member of about sermons they didn't

know whether he heard or not. there was no sign on the door that was offensive, no rock as you go in. here is a rock on property that you lease that is the sign entering it. >> right. >> people are acting like we're picking on perry? we're not talking about a conversation a preacher may have had that he may or may not have been there. this is where he is leasing and this is the sign. >> fundamentally acceptance by the community that this is just the way it is so we're okay with it. rick perry was privy to that, part of that community. he leased a house there. you know, he brought people there. explain -- he needs to explain his role and his understanding of why that's accepted. what the dynamics there were. i think that this is a moment where he needs to come out and address this thing. >> stand up, governor perry. address the issue. if you go -- imagine making this man president. if he can't explain a rock in the driveway of his ranch, of his hunting lodge. imagine if he had to deal with the world crisis. is this the man you wanted to

have to deal with that? i'm waiting, governor perry. i'm still waiting. nia and alex, thank you for your time. >> thank you. i'm still waiting. ahead, michele bachmann. ms. bachmann's meat locker press conference. just got a whole lot more interesting. what was she missing to be there? and chris christie has some explaining to do. why his past might come back to haunt him. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc.

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michele bachmann wants to run the country but maybe she should first do the job she has in congress. "roll call" reports bachmann's attendance has been spotty since she began her presidential campaign in june. the congresswoman has missed 150 votes in that time including missing every vote in september. 60 votes. and while candidate ron paul has made 84% of votes since he first began his run for president, bachmann only made 54%. only three representatives voted less than bachmann this summer. speaker boehner, arizona's gabrielle giffords and maurice hinchey of new york have all

cast fewer votes than bachmann. speakers don't typically vote. giffords of course is recovering from a gunman attack and hinchey had surgery. bachmann's spokeswoman told a minnesota radio station that bachmann serves many americans by criticizing the president's policy. for instance, on a day bachmann toured this iowa meat plant last month she missed house votes. one to fund veterans health care centers. one required states to report on prisoner deaths. and another made rules for the u.s. parole commission. they're more important than getting your picture taken next to a slab of meat, congresswoman. did you think no one would notice that while you're campaigning your constituents lose their voice in washington? nice try, congresswoman. but we got you. my insides? pure platinum. [ female announcer ] a healthy outside starts inside.

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welcome back to the show. chris christie's big decision could come any day now. various reports say thursday is the big day. nbc news has not confirmed this but sources tell politico it could come down to him and his wife. whatever he does the christie effect is already in progress. big money donors are waiting on the sidelines. he sucked up all the oxygen in the room. but can a guy who supports civil unions, believes in global warming, and once says it's not a crime to be in the united states illegally really win over the tea party fueled republican party? and he'll have to answer some big time baggage. he was accused of, quote, crony capitalism, big spending, and using the government title to get himself out of legal trouble. joining me now is richard wolffe

an msnbc political analyst and erin mcpike, national political reporter for "real clear politics." richard, how big an impact is christie having on the race? >> first of all, happy birthday, reverend. >> thank you. >> how big an impact is he having? what we're seeing in this republican race is a sort of wandering eye of the party. the more they look for someone better than the current crop the worse it gets for the guy left standing at the altar who is in this case mitt romney really. that's what this whole search is about. we've seen people rise up, get a lot of hype, then fall back down again. remember, four years ago there was a guy who was also a former prosecutor. everyone thought he was great because he could win in democratic states. he was supposed to have become conservative. his name you may know, rudolph guiliani. >> i've heard of him. >> he did not fare well. so chris christie, the idea of him may well be better for this party than the reality. >> now, erin, it seems that there is a problem in the

republican lineup from some of our perspective. you have the real problems now with rick perry, his debate performance now he's involved in a race. you've got mitt romney. let me show you an excerpt from an article in this morning's "new york times" which might give him a problem with some conservatives because it seems as though where romney is now this big, let's deal with taxes and dealing with workers one way, according to this article in the "new york times" this morning, quote, just a few months after mr. romney took office in 2003, what he delivered seemed anything but friendly to the ceo crowd. a bill to financial firms for what they saw as a $110 million in new corporate taxes and a promise of more to come. this plays into this flip flop image of romney as governor did one thing. romney as candidate for president saying something else.

i mean, it seems like the republicans doesn't have a strong cast of candidates right now. >> well, as far as romney is concerned, and let me add happy birthday as well. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. but as far as romney goes, with his gubernatorial record, it's not something that he talks about at all. in fact, he likes to play up his own business credentials. but what you're referring to with raising those corporate taxes in massachusetts, what he actually did in doing that was he brought a deficit in the state of massachusetts to a surplus by the end of his term as governor. that is actually a pretty good credential for him to be talking about but he doesn't do it and he doesn't do it because deraise taxes. so yes. he has a little bit of an issue there. >> he may not do it because it's hard to do that and bring the deficit to a surplus and then say but let's not do that nationally. it's hard to say that president obama shouldn't close corporate loop holes to deal with the deficit but i did it in

massachusetts. richard, it might be even for the pretzel like campaigning of twisting and turning of mitt romney a little hard to sell that. >> well, hard to sell for romney but harder this time generally because what voters say time and time again is they don't like politicians. remember way back when when people thought everything barack obama said was authentic and sincere? looked like he was trying to answer the question? we are in the situation where even more so people don't like current politicians. they don't like the clahanging positions. that is why the idea, not the reality but idea of chris christie is so appealing to conservatives right now. yes there is a flip-flopping residue but also in this time it would be hard any time but in this time it really doesn't work for voters across the spectrum. >> let me see if i can pull up a little -- poke a little hole in that and blow a little air out, erin because i wouldn't want you to think i was against my friend

willard. but mr. christie has some issues he is waivering on that conservatives may question him on. he is wavering on abortion, immigration, gun rights, judiciary power. i mean, we've heard christie on both sides of these issues that he is going to have to deal with some flip-flopping too. that doesn't come off authentic as defined by brother richard over there. >> well, i think the biggest one you mentioned is abortion. really he has the same problem that mitt romney does. i believe it was 1993 when chris christie said he was pro choice and he has since switched that. it's about the same time mitt romney had the issue too in his 1994 senate race against ted kennedy. i agree with richard. i think once chris christie comes under scrutiny if he does run which i don't think that he is going to, if he does, though, he is going to face these same issues. right now people like him

because yes he is a blank slate in some respects but also because he's on the right side of the issue of the day for the tea party and that is spending. and he's all about cutting spending and he stood up to the teachers unions and conservatives love his style. but right now that's what it is. it's mostly style. they're looking for someone with style. >> can't style last all the way through the primaries, richard? as you said, rudolph guiliani feels the same kind of in your face kind of go get you no nonsense guy and he melted in the primary. can style alone bring christie through these and other very serious questions that he would have to answer once he says amen then they go we're at you? >> no. i think style will work for him. this is a guy who he is pretty good at punching other people on the nose rhetorically and that is the role of a vp candidate. maybe that wallace this is all

about. i have no insight into his thinking. that is a bit of supposition. think about where those states are that you really have to seal this race -- iowa, south carolina which is going to be pivotal. once the other candidates are in competition with him on who is the true christian conservative here, he is going to be fried in those places. i don't see this working in reality but if he is running for the second spot on the ticket maybe this works let me ask this question. erin, how much damage has rick perry suffered over the weekend with this flap about his ranch and him not coming forward to deal with this directly? let's not even deal with just the allegation which clearly disturbs me and may not disturb others as much. but the fact that he can't even come forward himself and deal with this head on, don't you think this hurts him? >> for now it certainly does.

i don't think that yet we can tell how much damage it will do. that will be a pivotal moment for his campaign if he does come out and say something in person. he gave those written statements to "the washington post" and then his communications director put out another written statement. i think right now they are probably doing a little damage control to see what they need to do. but we don't know a lot of what else happened. i mean, you brought up the 2006 race earlier. there was a big story about george allen's past and there were a lot of other allegations in that that were bad for george allen. we don't know if rick perry has the same thing in his background yet. it's too early to tell. how he deals with it in person will say a lot about his candidacy going forward. >> well, i think that we will be watching. i'm watching my clock. richard wolffe and erin mcpike,

thank both of you for joining me tonight. coming up billionaire koch brothers. bank world tea party groups and push conservative causes. you won't believe who else they have been working with. that's next. endless shrimp is our most popular promotion at red lobster. there's so many choices. the guests love it. [ male announcer ] it's endless shrimp today at red lobster. as much as you like any way you like, like new sweet and spicy shrimp, all for $15.99. my name is angela trapp, and i sea food differently. my name iwhoa.ela trapp, whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations. whoa! use chase sapphire preferred and now get

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the billionaire koch brothers are under fire. an investigation by bloomberg finds troubling information about the koch conglomerate. a foreign subsidiary sold millions of dollars of petro chemical equipment to iran. american companies can't legally do business with iran because we declared them a threat to national security. but according to bloomberg, the koch brothers were able to dodge that no trade rule. today koch responded to the allegations denying any wrongdoing. koch industries general counsel mark holden told "the washington post" the company, quote, over a nine or ten-year period had sales of oil refining processing equipment that had no military weapons or nuclear application whatsoever. at the time this was legal.

anne went on to say many u.s. companies did the exact same thing. they're right. ge which owns 49% of this network, exxon mobil, hewlett-packard, and caterpillar are among those companies that did business with iran in those years. joining me now is justin elliot reporter. justin has been following the koch brothers story closely. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> it is true that other companies have dealt with iran during this time but isn't this a political problem since the koch brothers have been the ones that have been driving and financing the conservative movement and has practiced a more direct, extreme politics than the other companies that have been dagunduro busineoing iran? >> it's interesting and news worthy for a couple reasons. as you say, the kochs have been involved in seating the tea

party, getting millions of dollars and so i think what the bloomberg story shows including the episode that they're dealing with iran is that they're sort of antiregulation and ideology has spilled over into how they run their business, which koch industries, it's one of the world's largest, privately held companies. a lot of people don't know very much about it. so i think this story did a good job sort of shining the light on koch industry's business. >> i think that becomes the point of not bringing this story up because if you look at what charles koch, let me show you a quote from charles koch, himself, that deals with something you said. he says, quote we were caught unprepared by the rapid increase in regulation, while business was becoming increasingly regulated, we kept thinking and acting as if we lived in a pure market economy. so that regulation word is a little problem for the pure koch brothers. >> right.

i think the bloomberg story establishes that this -- these sales to iran which we should say were technically legal because koch industries sold these, i believe it's petro chemical equipment to iran through a foreign subsidiary so essentially i would say violating the spirit of the law but not actually the letter of the law. they were careful to separate it from their american business. however, the bloomberg story really establishes this was a pattern of regulations, in some cases violating the law and in some cases circumventing regulations which is an interesting parallel to the political world view which they've spent millions of dollars promoting through political donations. >> what about bribery? what is this i'm hearing about bribery? >> yeah. the main case of bribery involved a french subsidiary of koch industries, which the company actually i believe acknowledged in a letter to a french court a few years ago did violate criminal law by paying

bribes to various foreign governments and foreign companies or to win contracts. >> so a subsidiary of koch admitted to bribery. >> the company itself according to a letter i believe was first reported in the bloomberg market magazine story, the company itself acknowledged in a french court, to a french court in the letter these bribes paid to win contracts in various parts of the world violated criminal law. so i don't think koch is even disputing that. >> so we now, and again, we're not talking about in the overall beginning of the story. we're not talking about them technically violating the law. this is about an inconsistency and a probably ignoring or at least not operating within the spirit of the law but the political inconsistency. here are the people helping to finance the tea party, pro america, all of this, yet their business seems to be doing something different. >> right. and i also think it's interesting the reception of this story among conservatives

has been pretty muted. you would think conservatives are people, many of whom are people who are most hawkish of iran, want war with iran. that sort of thing. >> i want to see how they want to talk about this and i quill give them a mike if they want to talk right here. justin elliot of salon.com thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> i'll be right bachblgt the best approach to food is to keep it whole for better nutrition. that's what they do with great grains cereal. they steam and bake the actual whole grain while the other guy's flake is more processed. mmm.

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welcome back. my producers are telling me we have a special guest, a mystery guest on the phone. hello? >> hey. reverend, this is newt gingrich. how are you? >> newt gingrich. well, this is a surprise. >> well i figured i would be the least likely phone call you'll get tonight. >> you got that right. so am i to believe that newt gingrich, who is the polar opposite of me in politics called to wish me a happy birthday? absolutely. i had such a great time going around america with you on behalf of children who deserve

better schools and talking about charter schools and trying to help pass, get local communities to understand that taking care of children was the whole focus of schools, that i will never forget it. you were tremendous on those trips and while we may disagree about 99 things, on that one thing we were so much on the same team that it really was remarkable. i just want to report that, you know, as a citizen i think you did a lot of good for a lot of children on those trips. >> let me say this, newt. president obama did ask you and i to go on that tour. we went. you and i didn't even agree what dave the week it was but we did raise the issue of education and i think it was the right thing to do then and the right thing to do now. i appreciate you calling on my birthday. i got one gift you can give me for my birthday. >> yeah? >> i want you to ask governor perry about a rock in front of his hunting lodge. you know i had to give you one while i had you, newt. i wouldn't let you