>> amy's bike still sits in a small room at the bay village police department. her case notes remain front and center. she has been gone for more than 30 years, but amy mihaljevic is still here , and she is waiting for justice. maybe you can help her find it. >> if you have any information you think might help with amy's case, please call the bay village police at 440-871-1234. investigators are offering a $50,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. watchin

at morning, and welcome to the sunday edition of morning joe weekend. it was another fast-moving newsweek, and here are some of the conversations you might have missed. >> i have, for 6 months since people have been freaking out, i am telling you every time, talk to anybody who's running the campaign, the big part of the campaign. i don't know what they are telling you, what they are telling other people. they act ing like people are holding four aces. how about this? that's pretty bad. oh, yeah. looks really tough. yeah. >> is as a criticism? >> no, i'm telling you. they know something that i think a lot of us don't know. they look at numbers, they see where things are going, they have a theory of the case, and when they realize donald trump

is going to be getting into the race, they understand that you win politics by raising money. they understand donald trump's numbers are way down in every way, and fundraising, and they say, no, they are not. and as far as organization goes, we all know anybody who is been involved in a political campaign, if you are tearing up stakes in april and may, you are not going to put them back down in july and august. donald trump is going to be pounded on the ground. the biden people feel great about it, and they have about 1000 clips of donald trump that every day, they are like -- which one are we going to use today? and it just makes him look horrible. >> the biden campaign, they are supremely confident. that it will be very close. they are confident that they know it's going to be tight. they told me in the last week

or so that this person was saying, i feel very good about where we are. were going to win decisively. they like where they are. therefore better organization, far more state offices, therefore more money on hand, and that advantage is probably only going to grow. they feel like once americans start paying attention, most are not just yet. most think there's some skepticism about whether this is going to be the race. i'm told yesterday that's part of why these debates are important and why they are happening so early. there just isn't an understanding now. the debate commission was when to have their debates made, late october. many ballots have already been cast. >> i am still having intelligent people with advanced degrees telling me, who is the republican nominee really going to be? >> people still wonder. they think donald trump, he will be in prison. whatever it might be, there are people that are still skeptical. that's why a biden person was telling me last night, with the june debate is going to do,

that's going to grab donald trump who has been turned into white noise the last couple of years. here's the guy. he's the nominee. do we really want this again? >> i don't know if i'm suffering from campaign posts traumatic stress, but -- you know what i'm saying? >> i'm not talking about, as james carville would say, algorithms. >> no, no. here's the theory of the case. there theory of the case of the biden campaign, and they are dead right, it's going to be a close race. in close races, it's the blocking, it's the tackling that wins it for you. we saw this in 2004. we thought that 2004 with bush against kerry was going to be just like 2000. but you let kim melman, who is blocking and tackling from january on, just phone calls every day going around it. and that -- that adds up in

close races. if you know it's going to be a close race, that stuff adds up. again, maybe they are wrong, but i will tell you, the difference between this campaign and '16 is there was arrogance of the '16 campaign. he made fun of donald trump. they said no way he wins. they went on saturday night live and ridiculed donald trump is a republican nominee. this is the one good thing about these new york times polls. it scares the crap out of all the supporters who are saying to fundraisers, please, may we give you more? and so i guess after the election is over, trump will probably say it was a conspiracy , overplaying how bad things were for biden to juice his fundraising, because that's working, too. >> let's get caught up on the

news that broke last friday. things escalated pretty rapidly throughout yesterday afternoon with both candidates. and now they have accepted two invitations to debate. once on cnn on june 27th, and again on abc news on september 10th. the rules will differ from past election cycles. the candidates agreed to bypass the commission on presidential debates, which had organized these face-offs every four years since 1988. biden also requested these guidelines, which trump grudgingly accepted, or at least we think he accepted it. you never know. that there be no audience in the room, that no third-party candidates be allowed to participate. that only a select group of news outlets can host, and that a candidates microphone be shut off if they go over their allotted speaking time. >> i'm skeptical that trump

will ever put himself in that position where he's not saved by a roaring crowd. >> hill have one outside. whatever. >> i think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that donald trump is not as good as his word, and that he won't necessarily make good on this. there is, though -- the thing that trump has been -- the kind of core paradigm for the trump campaign's point of view is, donald trump is strong, donald trump is weak. he is weak and flailing. >> they don't want that contrast, because donald trump is flailing. >> but that's not what they think. that's not what they think. >> if you don't think that susie liles and chris and the smart people on his campaign don't understand how often this guy loses his train of thought, forgets who is fighting against -- i'm certain -- >> i'm sure he actually also

brokered the campaign. so they know. >> i think they also have -- they have a more critical view of joe biden's errors and missteps in this area than you do. and we are just talking about not what the right point of view is, but are they going to let donald trump go in and debate ? he would be, i think, a very tricky thing for donald trump, whose main point of view is, i am the tough guy, i'm rolling over the legal system right now. joe biden is weak and failing, i am strong and tough. i am unstoppable. for him to say, i think he has painted himself into a corner, because i think trump does not necessarily believe that biden would ever stand up and say he would take these debates. now he's kind of in a corner. donald trump always likes to leave himself wiggle room.

if you ask me with a gun to my head whether i think these debates are going to happen, there's nothing close to 100%. i'd say a little more likely than not that donald trump will feel like he has no choice. >> what about his campaign? he's going to go in there not with knowledge, not with experience on the world stage that is productive, but he's going to go in there with insults, with a firehose of falsehoods, personal stuff about joe biden, and he's going to come at him hard, and that's going to be the challenge. you laugh, but sometimes that throws people off. you never know. >> i'm not laughing. i'm smiling at the fact that when donald trump tries all of those things, that he does in front of his fat elvis '77 crowd with a roar and say please throw a sweaty scarf in my direction, it's going to be met with dead silence. and everybody -- like the cameramen and camera women are going to be looking at each

other like -- >> that behavior so shocking. it could be offputting. >> what about rfk jr.? >> as part of these agreements, he's not going to be included in these debates. his campaign put together some vociferous operation saying, we are factoring in the polls here. some americans may agree with him, but the biden and trump campaigns have cut him out. he is not going to be part of these debates. trump, we should also note, is calling for more jim just these two. even got fox news to host a third, but biden says, no. it will be two presidential's and one vice presidential versus kamala harris and whoever trump pics as his running mate. but to john's point here, i do think there's a sense that the biden campaign also wants to box trump in. they know he was out ahead of this thing. the biden camp said, okay, we will debate you. trump now can't be perceived as walking away from that.

and if he did, it would be a perception of weakness. >> and you know, willie always says, i strongly recommend that our viewers watch a donald trump rally from the beginning to the end to understand how disconnected this man is from reality. and again, i'm just saying, 90 minutes in a deadly silent studio audience with nothing but laughter coming from cameramen and camera women and stagehands at the really stupid things that he says -- i just think it's a huge mistake for him. >> there's a few things working in joe biden's favor in that sense. one of them is that donald trump has really enjoyed going on the platform of his choosing to communicate to the public for the past three or four years. and that is going to be --

that's just going to end with this. the other thing is that, i think the more national events you have were all eyes are in one place, the better for joe biden. so this is not going to be something that donald trump can introduce in his own way on his own platform. americans are going to see the from a traditional media organization exactly what donald trump looks like and sounds like. there's going to be one source for this information. i actually think that's going to work in joe biden's favor. the other element that i'm just depressed about is that the second debate is on my birth day. >> were going to have a birthday party right here. >> september 10th. 25 years old. >> that is fantastic. >> let's remember that despite

trump's bravado at debates, joe biden got the better of him in 2020. he won those debates. >> with covid, at least in the first one. were also seen from the republicans already setting expectations so low for biden that he just stands up there and put some sentences together and wins. >> by the way, they never learn. they never learn. these republicans never learn. they constantly underestimate joe biden, they constantly say he's an old man. as you know, if you are debating somebody, even if you are a lot better, you know, i hope i'm able to walk off of the stage and my hound dog will still talk to me afterwards because he's such a great debater. you constantly talk yourself down. these republicans keep saying, we just hope he gets to the state of the union. he so old and addled. and think about it. all you can do is you can judge somebody either toughest challenges.

joe biden, the democratic primary, he was, you know, back against the wall. he wins south carolina, he doilies destroys all the people politically that had been mocking him before that. you think about the first state of the union. he's too old, he's in firm, he blew them out of the water. this last state of the union, not only was it prepared remarks, it was, you know, off- the-cuff remarks were he just mocked and ridiculed him and made them look like children. and yet -- and why should we be surprised? they still don't get it. they are still mocking him, which plays right into his hand. >> yeah. to paraphrase george bush, it's nice to go to the debate with soft expectations for your favorite. they basically made him out to be a guy that could barely put a sentence together. so he's going to win, and i think it's his chance.

i was reading doris goodwin's new book about it, and in 1960, the whole idea was that kennedy needed to show people he was a grown up. the narrative around kennedy was he was a kid, too young, too unexperienced. that's all kennedy had to do. again, low expectations. and i think biden is in very much the same situation. he did win the last two debates. and this could still break down over a lot of these details. he placed the biden's strength. no set times. the moderator cuts off the microphone to give biden a chance to talk without him hovering over him. >> still had on morning joe -- that was so gross. >> if trump agrees to this with everything going against him, it shows you -- it reveals how desperate they are for this debate.

>> i more careful in my thoughts about this. anything could happen. morning joe will be right back.

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>> we know a thing or two about russian disinformation campaigns. back in 2016, we had senator from warner say he is more worried about or an election into a hearing this time around even then in 2020. he thinks we are less to be prepared. what would the advice be to the biden campaign? how can they combat this? >> the hardest thing to combat in 2016 was nobody believed us. even after there had been reporting on what russia was doing, they would go to the post and say, we think a lot of this is coming from russia. it was just so fantastic for everyone that they couldn't really -- it just, you know, they couldn't appreciate that that was really happening.

and now people do know that. i think it's a lot easier -- >> can i read this for you and then you continue? it's not just the washington post. the gop senate intel report that was run by marco rubio, they wrote this in 2017. the reports starts, manafort activity to russian outreach as, quote, a great counterintelligence threat that made the campaign susceptible to malign russian influence. marco rubio's committee said russia presented a grave counter intelligence threat. i was marco rubio and the republicans. and yet people still want to write off beds on the wall street journal editorial page talking about russia hoax. marco rubio talked about russia presented with this

discrimination -- let me say it again. quote, a great counterintelligence threat. >> and '16, we had a good story in june of '16 to say where they thought a lot of this was coming from, and a course, on october 7th, 2016, we had the declaration from the obama administration that russia was behind the hacks. we later had an intelligence estimate that it was not just the russians behind this, trying to help donald trump win. i was driving the administration. but it was too fantastic for people to appreciate. and now we've had eight years of this, and it is -- i think at least -- even though it is more widespread, when you say you can't trust that, it can be from the russians, at least people understand now that that something they've got to look out for, and i think you got to call out lies immediately and

right away and point them out to people and we will have to be better judges. >> that's a lot to ask for. >> people have to be aware of this. which is actually factual. it actually happened. and it impacted the presidential election. and it's not just russia now. there's a tsunami of misinformation out there. russia, china, various other countries, all aimed at our increasingly fragile democracy. so part of what you do for a living is teach. and part of what you teach is the history of this country, of race in this country, of the culture in this country today. this is a potential lethal threat to our country. >> absolutely. in so many ways, people are kind of post-fact in some ways. and in some ways, this is also, like tom said, that america's appetite for this drives it. stop drinking milk shakes.

although some of us like milkshakes. what makes it successful is that it is actually tapping into a center of positions and beliefs that many americans hold, and then they are supporting it and amplifying. one of the questions we have to ask ourselves is, are they hacking and doing the kind of concrete work, why is it so effective? >> they don't have to anymore. all they have to do is get the information of the chinese communist party's app. which, of course, is tiktok. the chinese communist party runs that out, they make sure that the algorithms are running away, it spreads disinformation into america. if you don't believe it, talk about the leaders. talk about human suffering in hong kong. talk about human rights abuses in china. and see how much of a pickup that gets on tiktok. but if you spread this information about joe biden,

russian disinformation -- oh, you got the russians and the communist chinese running roughshod across america, and everybody is against it except donald trump. who now supports tiktok . >> for his own interest. that all makes sense to me, joe. and part of what i'm trying to wrap my mind around is the way and why it is effective. it is effective, of course, for all the reasons you just laid out, but it is also asked winning scant divisions. there is a kind of dispositional orientation to the misinformation that allows it to take roots, and i think, how do we address both ends of it? that's what the russians and the chinese are doing, and what we are susceptible to, if that makes sense. >> there is so much stupidity out there that is peddled by people -- two great examples. there's a guy used to be in mumford and sons who debated at

the oxford union, debated nancy pelosi. he just talked about joe biden's severe dementia. and he said such severe dementia he can hardly operate. if they live. it's a complete and total lie. and yet, that is pushed and it is pushed by these third parties. i mean, and then you have other lies about how great russia is. tucker carlson running around saying, oh, my god. it's a worker's paradise. it seriously sounded like a guy infected by the soviet union and '62. he pushes that, he pedals that russian disinformation actively. >> yeah. and giving it a large platform. not as large as he used to have on cable, but still. and we should note, where is vladimir putin today?

>> is been which she's in pain. this is a topic of conversation. certainly, their greater interest or making things as hard as possible. >> a couple quick things. mike, if you think about it, if you think about it, the massive amount of disinformation that is out there is not surprising. what is more upsetting than that, at least to me, and i'm wondering about you, having been through it firsthand, is the appetite for what's out there in this country. >> there's an appetite in the press to latch onto it. that is -- if everyone is taking responsibility for pushing back on it, i mean, i would rather take more with unaware press than what we had in '16 where everyone just accepted what they saw on twitter as coming from a real person.

>> really quickly before we leave, that meeting in beijing between vladimir putin and president xi jinping, there's a reason for both of those men be scared of, despite the lies, the constant lies. there's reason for both of them to strategically be scared of joe biden's re-election. if you look at russia, obviously it's been joe biden that in spite of the republican house has pushed through ukraine aid, despite the delays of mike johnson and donald trump causing the -- and then when you look at china, you look at the new york times earlier this week, we've been talking about it on this show an awful lot. you look at the fact that joe biden is having china in. when it comes to chinese aggression in the south sea, the south china sea, when it comes from -- from the philippines all the way down to australia, all the way around, the chinese are not able to ask band because of joe biden's strategic moves.

>> coming up. how the possible tiktok dan might be impacting the trump campaigns struggle to raise money. will tell you about that after a quick break. eak. sday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. oh, yeah, man. take it from your so,inner child.ow. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog's food to the farmer's dog, the effects can seem like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. you want thicker, stronger, fuller hair? you need expert skincare. new dove scalp + hair therapy serum

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>> let's turn to special correspondent at vanity fair, gabe sherman. you are looking into the strange strained courtship of donald trump and mega donor jeff yass. earlier this year, donald trump appeared to be flipped on his position on tiktok, the app owned by the chinese company bytedance. and posting on social media in march to warn against banning the platform. compare that to his comments four years ago shortly before announcing a ban on tiktok for, quote, impairing the

national security of the united states. take a look. >> we are looking at tiktok, we may be banning tiktok. there are a couple of options. but a lot of things are happening. but we are looking at a lot of alternatives. >> at the time, he thought tiktok was a tbs game show that came on at 6:30 weeknights. >> he thought it was the metronome on the piano at mar-a- lago. >> is finding himself in this position where he's actually supporting the chinese communist government continuing to control political thought, especially of younger voters. while the rest of washington is now saying, no, this is too dangerous for america, to let the chinese communist government into our -- >> is a rare source of bipartisan agreement. >> exactly. but he shifted in part because of this huge thing. >> donald said we will see what happens. what's happening is donald trump needs money badly.

one of the campaigns real weak spots is a lack of major fundraising and donors. and jeff yass is a financier based in pennsylvania. is a single largest political donor this cycle and has yet to donate to donald trump's campaign. what does jeff yass own? the single largest american investor in tiktok. connect the dots. donald trump -- position, puts his weight behind this investment, perhaps seeking to get a donation. donald trump looks at politics through the prism, what helps donald trump? it's not about ideology, it not about policy, it's about what advances his own personal and financial agenda. >> and so jeff yass went to mar- a-lago and met with him in palm beach. a week later, he makes the post with the case to keep tiktok around. he spent a lot of money to buy ads to keep donald trump from

winning. was he really going to throw his support behind trump? >> he came up to the world of professional gambling. that's kind of this framework for gambling. you always try to play the sucker. so jeff yass has gotten trump to flip his position on tick- tock without having to donate to his campaign. who's the sucker? >> that really points to how desperate the campaign is. because we keep hearing, you see the numbers. i guess maybe some of the same people that do the new york times, you know, donald trump, he's got a lot of billionaires down at mar-a-lago. there behind the gates, and -- you know what? it's all talk. he so desperate. they are pulling people in. any billionaire they find on the street, they drag him in. but anyway, this guy, again, he still hasn't given, has he? >> no. his plan, his team says he doesn't plan to give. he has all the leverage over

donald trump. he's dangling the money. to get trump to flip on tiktok. >> just give me a sense -- you spend a lot of time thinking about trump and money, so this is a really good example. he's going to betray him. he was in chris christie's camp, he's been in everybody's camp. is is the greatest sign of trumps desperation, do you know of other things that are illustrative of the fact that how desperate trump is in the financial terms of giving the general election. >> he was selling bibles, selling sneakers. between his legal bills and his campaigns in the fundraising, this is, as joe said, a sign of desperation. joe biden's campaign has something to the order of 100 million more on hand than the trump campaign. >> could you at least take one of us with you where you are going? and please let that person be me? >> take my two kids.

>> you're taking your kids instead of me? >> there's no reason why you couldn't swap one kid out for me. >> could you tell us why you are going? >> wow. >> very excited. i wrote a movie about donald trump's rise in new york's eddie and his relationship with roy cohen. it's called the apprentice and is a character study of the formative years were donald trump became donald trump. >> and he learned at the feet -- >> of his master, roy cohen, who taught him everything he is using today. >> is still hard to believe that, is a turning point? is that the netflix series on the cold war? you are looking at these 1950s pictures of roy cohen, and the middle of mccarthyism. and it is still hard to connect something that happened that

long ago with a guy who is -- is channeling roy cohen every day in front of our eyes in manhattan. >> he's at the middle of that timeline. it reaches into the mccarthy area and forward to donald trump. and to donald trump of 2024, never apologize. you will always be on the attack. >> would you go up to the point that he got a.i.d.s. and donald trump dropped him? >> that's a whole relation. >> very intimate character study. >> i cannot wait. willie gladstone was asked at a press conference yesterday about you. >> i was grateful they said let's keep an open heart and open mind and judge the film as a piece of art. >> 20 years after the documentary that scrutinized fast food, the industry is more popular than ever. we will explain why. n why.

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>> twinning is now, senior editor brian gallagher. his latest piece is entitled fast food for ever. how haters lost the culture war . and in it, bryan looks at how fast food companies have endured. 20 years after the documentary supersize me, rotting down the faint golden arches and how the company and the entire industry

has endured with their most powerful tool. and that would be marketing. brian, incredible piece. explain to us the endurance of mcdonald's. it also seems to me that they changed their menu. and i'm wondering about how, if economics plays a role in this as well. >> yeah, sure. thanks for having me. i don't -- it's interesting. supersize me was a massive media moment, but it didn't seem to have much effect financially on mcdonald's or the industry. really at all. it was pretty momentary. they introduced things like apple slices to happy meals, but they didn't really change the menu even that much. so i think mcdonald's realized after a while that it was more of an image problem that they had internalized, even. and their ad agency said to

them, you are still operating with the supersize me shame, but people actually love mcdonald's and you don't need to be worried. you can embrace that. and they did. and the marketing was a big tool. probably the chief tool since the food didn't really change. they cook the burgers to order now, but that is really about freshness and not about the caloric content or whatever. order pounders are the same, big macs are the same. what they did do is they stopped advertising directly to children, for the most part. i think that was kind of the big moral panic around supersize me was about childhood obesity. like so many things in america with children. but they were really daft at advertising or marketing to young people, like teens. so effectively, they were reaching -- they are still reaching --

>> what is so interesting, brian, as they also -- for instance, i'm a sweet guy. to tell you the truth, i stopped going to mcdonald's a lot. you know, i don't have all of them, but okay. what they did was, for instance, coffee, starbucks came on, i would hear from my children, i don't eat there much anymore, but they make the best -- i don't know. they make the best coffee or the best this or that. sweet tea for a southerner, the only place you can get sweet tea that good is in new york. mcdonald's, they also shifted on the menu and give more options, but they are not the mcdonald's of, you know, 1995. >> yeah. in what way? they move the menu in and out, they've expanded it, they found it back to the basics again. a lot of the chains have modulated the menu over the years. right now, mcdonald's has a

pretty streamlined menu compared to other times where you are walking in and being like, they are trying to be all things to all people, and that's another part of the embracing. the big mac works. people love it. you don't need to sell them, you know, six different kinds of salad as well, for and since. >>'s new york times senior editor brian gallagher. thank you so much. sorry about that mixup for communication. it's great to have the lack of communication in the room. >> coming up, will be joined by one of the most prolific suspense writers, harlan tobin. we will be right back. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials.

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comfy & confident protection that feel just like normal. with so many styles and colors to choose from, switching is easy at knix.com >> harlan coben's latest novel think twice continues the story of beloved sports agent myron ola tar. i want you to set the

scene for us. but first, you are a fairly young man. how did you write 46 books? >> 36, one per year, i started when i was seven. >> that's amazing. >> i knew william when he was in high school. >> yes. same time in jersey. >> he was one of my best buddies. >> that is true. >> i'm sick of it. >> yeah. your books, they sell, sell, sell. tell us about think twice. >> imagine that somebody comes to you and they say we think we know who the killer is. we got his dna, but he died three years ago and you did his eulogy. that's how it opens. he has to figure out if this

guy is still alive, what is causing the murders. this is a book you want to take a 10:00 tonight and escape. give us all stress, and it's my job -- we all know reading is good for us. there's actual studies now that reading books -- >> real books. new screens. >> you don't regret it when you read a book. >> i suggest call map for 2215 minutes and then read think twice. >> i like a book that is fun that doesn't feel like homework. >> i'm curious about your process. someone as prolific and successful as you are, john grisham a couple of years ago, i said what is your process? he says he wakes up on january 1st, goes out to the barn or whatever on his property, has no wi-fi connection, writes five hours a day and then hands it in on the fourth of july. what's your process? >> i have nothing else in my life. i have no interests, no

hobbies. one book i actually took -- when we were first starting, i took a uber to new york and felt guilty about writing and spending the money. for three weeks, i took uber's wherever i went and what in the back. i write it really hard, the horse dies, and i go back. i think about it every day. it's always in my head. even right now as i'm walking in here, can i use this in some sort of book? >> oh, no. >> if i really want that stud carrier -- >> you know what is really interesting from a personal point of view about all of your books? my wife is a great reader. she reads all of your books. but what she also loves his the netflix movies based on the books. how did that marriage occur? how long has it been going on? and how does it happen?

>> and you're okay with that? you're all about them reading the books? >> by the way, you married way above your station. >> but it's -- netflix has been great. we made one and it really worked out. the most recent was fool me once. but later on, people watch it so quickly. we have 100 million families, 100 million households watching eight episodes of fool me once within 90 days. 100 million. all over the world, 190 countries. so it's been really cool just sort of take this thing and put it on the screen. not to get too heavy, but you go on set and you see all these people bringing it to life and realizing it's going to be in all these households, and you think, i had this silly idea in my house in new jersey. >> you only sowed 80 million

books. you talked to me once and said, you have the beginning and the end and you kind of just fill in the middle. and you always start with a bang. you are like, okay. somebody is dead. and so talk to me -- give me the moment, the aha moment of, i know this is happening. >> by the way, this ending i think is my most surprising. >> no one's going to get it. >> no one is going to get it. no one is going to get it. but i got to compete against you guys. if i was to read a book where a presidential candidate is on trial for paying off -- and the first witness is named pecker? >> i know. reality is crazy these days. >> i got to compete with you guys. >> i also need to understand how you can pull off green glasses. did you notice that? he can pull off anything. >> if i'm coming up and i need

to be sitting next to donny deutsch, you got to come ready. >> yeah. the new book is think twice, and you need to and go buy it. harlan coben, thank you very much. don't go anywhere. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend right after the break. did i read this? did i get eggs? where are my keys? memory and thinking issues keep piling up? it may be due to a buildup of amyloid plaques in the brain.

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welcome back to morning joe on the sunday morning. let's look at some of this week's conversations that we did not want you to miss. >> president biden will be going to atlanta this weekend to deliver the commencement address at morehouse college at of the graduation. some students and faculty raised concerns regarding biden 's speech prompting the white house to send a senior administration official to morehouse in an effort to help ease the objections. that official joins us now. our senior advisor to the president and white house director of public engagement, steve benjamin. good to have you on board. >> steve, thank you for joining us. let's start there. what are some of the concerns that you heard from those who were at the college in advance of the president's speech where some protesters were expected? >> thank you for the question. my intent and going down there was to do what we do here in

the office of public engagement at the white house every single day. we realize we have two ears and one mouth. we are supposed to listen as much as we talk. five students, number faculty members and two ministers, at the institution of higher learning where it any day, 2500 young men are being trained for leadership . they shared literally a range of concerns that you might expect from five young men with different backgrounds. not homogeneous or heterogeneous group. we talked about moral affairs to neighborhood leadership and how the focus on entrepreneurship and creating wealth, with the degrees might be worth. we talked about student debt and the president's leadership. $160 billion in student debt. and we talked about hbcu support which of course the

previously support from the president. numbers up to $16 billion. again, we had a chance to listen very closely. but also to share issues that the president has been working on with the intent of making sure that has you prepared for the commencement address that the president was able to center these young men who worked very hard. four years ago, it was a very different time as we emerged from the greatest pandemic. probably the greatest economic destruction and the greatest social unrest after the murder of george floyd. it was important for us to realize that some of these kids didn't have graduation from high school and now these young men need to make sure they have a meaningful commencement and president joe biden plans to deliver on that. >> these commencement addresses certainly are not policy speeches but because it is a presidential address,

policy does seat in. how does president biden plan to address the war and gaza and the ongoing support for israel? >> i'm not going to get ahead of the president obviously but i do know that he is thinking very deeply about how to center these young men and the special experience they and their families were meant to enjoy sunday. at the same time, recognizing that he is the leader of the free world and that the challenges we face in the middle east are challenges that we face for generations. helping people understand israel's our ally and the challenges are of october seventh. the historical challenges are we face here and focusing the fact that israel has a right to defend itself. at the same time, the president is clear that he is in search of enduring peace and making

sure humanitarian aid is available to the people of gaza and more importantly, that innocent people may not have to suffer in any situation. i believe they will weave that in. the goal is very much going to be focused on centering these young men and the experience they are having as they go into the world as young leaders. >> senior advisor to the president and white house director of public engagement, steve benjamin, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you so much. morning joe weekend will be right back!

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the new york times has reporting that includes a photo of an american flag outside the home of supreme court justice samuel alito. the flag being flown upside down. as the times notes, the inverted flag, and as joe mentioned, has become a symbol of trump supporters who claim

without evidence that the 2020 election was stolen. reading from the piece, " the upside down flag was aloft on generous 17, 2021, the images showed president donald jay trump's supporters and including some brandishing the same symbol had righted at the capital a little over a week before. mr. biden's inauguration was three days away. alarmed neighbors snapped photographs, some of which were recently obtained by the new york times. well the flag was up, the court was still contending with other to hear the 2020 election case with justice alito on the losing end of that decision. in the coming weeks, the justices will rule on two climactic cases involving the storming of the capital on january 6th including whether mr. trump has immunity from his actions". >> senator, alito denied this

and blamed his wife which of course, i'm waiting for history to determine who leaked the dobbs decision. but here we have one of the most fraught times in american history. cases going before the supreme court and the court ruled correctly that actually, the will of the people should be affirmed. but you have two justices who were directly or indirectly taking sides. we already know about justice thomas and now this. how disturbed are you by this? >> i am beyond disturbed.

i was a law clerk to justice blackmun on the united states supreme court when this kind of behavior would have been unimaginable. you wouldn't have read about it in a book of fiction. and now, this kind of conduct is taking down the supreme court. >> nobody would have believed it if you had put it in the book of fiction. >> nobody would have believed it. justice alito should not sit on any of these cases involving donald trump. he should recuse himself. here's the challenge to keep justice roberts. united states supreme court's credibility is plummeting. >> lower than perhaps even the united states congress and that is saying something. it is due to the supreme court's own self-inflicted wounds. alito and thomas, directly involved in the january 6 insurrection. now they will sit on cases involving pivotal legal questions.

absolutely unthinkable. and i think that she justice roberts has to take leadership of this court. he has to tell these two justices that they have no business sitting on the court. it will still be able to decide the cases but not with justices alito and thomas. by virtue of flying that flag upside down, whether it was his life or not, it was his home. justice thomas and his wife being involved helping to organize the insurrection both have direct interest here. >> mike, i was talking before growing up in a very conservative area with federal judges who sure, were very conservative. i knew a few of them fairly well . you could not get them to talk about politics in their privacy of their own

home. there was a line they felt like they had the duty and that it was his sacred duty not to be involved in politics. and here you have a court run by chief justice john roberts and institutionalists, a man who i think may be one of the last institutionalists in the supreme court. but an institutionalist who has seen ethics problems come up regarding payments to justices who have seen the most disturbing politicalization through thomas and now this. he has to do something . he has to make a statement. i believe the american court system separates us from other countries. it is usually the leveling --

even if we disagree with decisions from time to time. and yet things keep getting worse. the approval rating keeps getting lower. soon, they are going to lose respect by the overwhelming majority of americans and then a tyrannical president can just run over them and just ignore the rulings like andrew jackson did. >> you served in the house of representatives when blumenthal was in the united states senate. there is accountability in both parties to a certain extent. there are some rogues. people get away with things. no doubt about that. but there is accountability. there is no accountability on the united states supreme court. none. i think you are correct. justice roberts, people who know him and who i know indicate he is a solid guy, responsible guy and has his eye on his legacy. his legacy is going to be ruined by the behavior of people like justice alito on

the point of the supreme court having no accountability. on the point of the supreme court about to rule on presidential immunity . what impact do you think internally in washington among the collective powers and the senate and in the house and in the presidency, what is their view of the supreme court's function today and the supreme court's behavior today? >> i think this is another story about lack of accountability in the institutions. it is part of the overall crisis of faith that americans have in all of the political institutions right now. i think when you look at the questions surrounding donald trump or eight years, many people looked at trump's behavior, the fact that he was able to get away with so many things for so long and saw an incredible lack of accountability. right now, the question is, who polices the supreme court? i'm curious to hear from

senator blumenthal on whether there is any prospect of any legislation ever coming through that says the supreme court needs to be more accountable. there is a question of whether the court enforces its own rules. as an important story points out. the supreme court warns its employees regularly against any displays that could be interpreted in a partisan manner or political manner . when the times asked the court spokesperson , do these rules apply to the justices, they did not receive an answer. to me, that speaks to an institution without any accountability. it is really an important piece of reporting and it is very upsetting. >> senator, this comes at a moment when american's faith in the courts have declined. and they see this more political than ever before. it comes at a fraught moment for the nation during an election year to one of the leading candidates is currently on trial. sort of a sense of unrest. now we have this where more and more americans might feel like,

this is in fact rigged. it is not going to be done in a fair way with the constitution. how worried are you about where this nation is heading right now is things will only grow more tense between now and november? >> i couldn't be more worried. the judicial system has no army or police force. its orders are obeyed because of its credibility, because people trusted. it has squandered that trust. the ones who have squandered it most irresponsibly are the highest court justices and we have worked for code of ethics and have been rejected by republican who worked for an inspector general. my proposal is that the judicial branch have an inspector general just like every other agency. the supreme court has no code of ethics. uniquely among the branches of

government. so i think it is a moment of reckoning for our democracy in a very real sense because of the trust that has been lost in the judiciary. and i think we have a bipartisan obligation to come together as republicans and democrats because this issue is bigger than either party. >> unfortunately, again, at a time when faith in the supreme court is low, you look and you have a supreme court that is slow walking the january 6 case. i have to say i'm really shocked by what comes out from the supreme court. these people have said since they were in law school that they believe it is a states issue. don't be shocked. but i will tell you that i was shocked by the immunity decision . i thought that the d.c. circuits extern a decision would be

immediately affirmed. >> or the court wouldn't take the case. >> the court wouldn't take the case. they are slow walking the january 6 case, the supreme court. you look at what is happening with the stolen nuke secrets case and the stolen war plans case. you look at that and there is a judge in south florida that was excoriated by the most conservative circuit court in america for being just biased. and the mistakes she is making now regarding jury instructions, we won't even get into it. it is laughable. you would get enough in law school. >> it is the judge. i get it. you add those two things and it looks like people are doing things for donald trump. you look at what thomas has been doing ethically. you look what ginni thomas was doing regarding january 6th.

now you look at what alito is doing with the flag hung upside down. i will say it. right after dobbs, you had amy coney barrett who, i will say, even though i disagree with her on a lot of things, you are going through a federalist society dinner and making light of opposition after dobbs. making light of that. i'm telling you that if people want to know -- people who grew up around federal judges are seeing this behavior from the top justices in the land and it is like they are from another planet. just like i don't recognize my party, i don't recognize this type of behavior from any federal judge. >> morning joe will be right back.

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let's bring in a member of the ukrainian problem. chairwoman of the country's commission on arms control. thank you for being with us. we want to talk to you about why you are in washington this week. but first to get your reaction to the images you have seen and the discussion about vladimir putin being welcomed with open arms. and the red carpet rolled out by president xi in china. what does it signal to you from where you sit? >> reporter: ukraine has been saying for quite a while that china is just pretending to stand aside in this war. so far we have seen the north koreans and the iranians supporting russia with weapons directly. china has been supporting them economically and using dual use and sending tons of stuff to russia that can be torn apart and chips can be used later for

bombs and missiles and drones hitting ukraine and civilians every day. unfortunately, this is very sad what we are watching now because this is between the democratic countries , the free world and the autocracies. china is watching closely of what will happen in ukraine, whether the western world will support ukraine enough to win and then decide whether they will go off to taiwan or not. we can see that unfortunately they are uniting and supporting each other much faster than the allies are sometimes united to support ukraine. >> you are in washington, a town, a city, a capital and a body that took far too long to get ukraine the much-needed aid. it did come. $60 billion on its way. making its way soon to the battlefield where it is desperately needed. what do you expect that to do? what difference will it make and what more do you need? >> first of all, i would like to thank every american citizen

for the support. first we ran out of the missiles for the air defense. russia managed to bomb all of our power plants. we don't have electricity right now and kyiv now and it is very sad. we were not able to shoot back or put on the ballistic missiles coming to our cities and capital. right now we have those coming so we can at least protect our civilian population and the ukrainians are very grateful to americans for sporting our population. unfortunately, even with weapons coming right now, there is a huge problem and we have been talking to all the congresspeople. people on the hill that ukrainians need exactly what you are shown right on the screen. ukrainians need the ability to strike russia and the border. what russians are doing at this moment -- because they understand there is a ban for ukrainians to use the weapons

we have right now from the united states and other countries against the russian troops on their territories and against military targets. they are putting everything they have, all of their artillery , right next to the border showing our cities and destroying our villages. what we are asking to do right now are the buffer zones so the ukrainians can hit exactly the military targets. talking about artillery. talking about the systems that are showing the city right now and like the second biggest city in ukraine. it is 30 kilometers from the border and can be easily reached. it is full of 15 miles that can be reached by the russian artillery. unfortunately, there is nothing we can do because we are not allowed to use the ammunition we have or the weapons we have to hit them back. we are asking for this defensive opportunity right now to protect our cities and to hit the military targets. the machines and weapons that are hitting us every day destroying and demolishing the

cities. >> member of the ukrainian parliament. >> thank you so much for being on this morning. we really appreciate it. next, pulitzer prize- winning journalist and author nicholas kristof on his new book that reflects back on his legendary career. >> and offers a real sense of hope. il: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack? trust safelite. this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... then we got to work. we replaced his windshield... ...and installed new wipers to protect his new glass. >> customer: looks great. thank you. >> tech: my pleasure. >> vo: we come to you for free. schedule now for free mobile service

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robles overthrew the chad government. he and friends found a live grenade and started playing with it, and it exploded taking his hands, one eye and half of his face. >> that was the new york times opinion columnist nicholas kristof. a foreign correspondent sending a light on the genocide and 2004. this would earn kristof a second pulitzer prize for giving voice to the voiceless in other parts of the world. and nick joined the snow as the author of the new memorial out today entitled "chasing hope, a reporter's life" . and you make the case for hope and say in part this, "what i've learned from four decades of covering misery is hope, both

the reasons for hope and the need for hope. i emerge from years on the front lines in all by material and moral progress. when i step back, what i see is the backdrop of progress in america and abroad that is rarely acknowledged and that should give us perspective and inspire us to take on the many challenges that still confront us. some people see my career covering massacres and oppression and assume that i must be dour and infused with misery, a journalistic eeyore. not so! journalism is an act of hope". >> we often talk here about how covering the news every day can bring us down and make us forget that america has the strongest economy in the world and soft and hard power more than ever before then anywhere in the rest of the world. tackling greenhouse gases over

the last decade, we have made progress. worldwide, poverty levels continue to plummet. all the things you are talking about. but when you see the news of the day, it's hard to not see the misery right in front of you. instead, saying forgive me for using what has now become a little bit past say to use but the moral arc over the last 50- 60 years is quite remarkable. from civil rights to poverty, to democracy across the globe. >> i think one of the problems is that in journalism, we cover airplanes that crash and not airplanes that land. so you get the impression that all airplanes are crashing. we understand that with aviation. but i don't know that we understand that in terms of the world as a whole. and i'm afraid that that tends to create this sense of despair that is paralyzing and desmond tutu was someone i admired and

he spoke about hope is being one of the factors that enabled them to overcome brutal homophobia and xenophobia in south africa. >> you covered genocide and civil war. when you approach those stories and you put your pack on and flight and, what is your approach? what is your mindset? is it just to observe and record and report back? how much of yourself and your emotion do you bring to it? >> i'm a little ashamed that when i go into a village and people have been killed or injured, i really have an emotional armor and it is probably like an er physician. you just want to get the facts. you are in danger. you are putting your interpreter or driver in danger. you just want to get what you can and go out. sometimes there is a kink in the armor and children for me

is one of them . if you find a kid who has been shot or raped or whatever it may be, they tell us the story and it is hard to deal with. >> but you still managed to find hope not just in other places of the world but even in america. i know joe is a big believer in this too. that you believe in american supremacy and you think there were other times and even if trump wins, you believe america has a broader foundation that we will be okay. there are times we have doubted it before with the civil war. or that europe would dominate america or china would take over as the strongest economy. that hasn't happened. what is it about america that makes you hopeful? >> i should acknowledge. i think trump would be a huge challenge to the country and democracy and i think we face enormous challenges of all kinds. with that said, there is this

underlying economic dynamic and inventiveness. what everybody thought china would overtake the u.s. and out is no longer true. trump it may damage europe and asia more than he damages the u.s. that paradox leaving the nation and that position. >> you have met some horrors and you have met some characters that have given you new hope. tell us about a couple. >> one of the -- i'm always a little more fond of some religious evangelicals and others. partly because of people i meet out in the field. one person that left a deep impression that i write about is a nun in northern uganda. it was a girls stool school attacked by the lord's militia. they were kidnapped and taken

off in the bush. the uganda army and police refused to go after them and try to recover the girls. they were terrified of the army. this nun goes after them single- handedly armed with just a rosary. after two days, catches up with the warlord and negotiates with her to get back i think 109 of the girls. and just that sense of raw courage, unable to come back sometimes from places like congo or sedan, feeling better about humanity because side-by- side, with the worst true evil, you see the very best. human capacity for strength, resilience, courage and decency. >> coming up, we will speak to the founders of a new movement that aims to bring americans back together. cans back together.

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as united states enters another bitterly divisive campaign season, a new initiative is looking to lower the temperature and bring people together the builders movement is a new nonprofit taking a multipronged approach to tackling political polarization and seeking consensus on hot button policy issues. joining us now, founding partners of the builders movement, daniel blavatsky, also the founder of kind snacks. and lonnie ellie, cofounder of the muhammad ali center and the wife of the late great boxing champion and humanitarian he met muhammad ali. great to have you with us. daniel, i will start with you. we were talking off break. launch was yesterday. you went from here in the u.s. to global as well. you are thinking big. what is the strategy and the goal behind the builders movement? >> the goal is to overcome the

us versus them toxic polarization and replace it with problem-solving toolkits to equipped college students and young people and people in the workplace to build bridges and companies and learn how to solve problems and differences to keep us from a hateful filled divide. we talked earlier about country's funding this division and we need to overcome that. >> and where do you begin? how does it work and how can you help bridge this divide that is multipronged and global? >> i would say that it starts with us. and it really is. the builders movement is an extension that starts with us, and initiative daniels started many years ago to have people think with courage and compassion and try to overcome those differences. but where we go is we try to

bring people together from diverse backgrounds with attitudes, different attitudes. but with the common goal of working together and overcoming differences and find pragmatic solutions to some of the most challenging problems we have in our society today. and we have equipped that with the builders toolkit and skill set and support to help people achieve those goals. >> i would argue, and we talked about this on the show. this is where most people live. this is what most people want. they want to work together. they want real solutions. they don't want to be screaming at each other on social media or tv. sometimes that extremism is amplified in a way that is not representative of what it really is. what is an example of an issue that you looked at and said, it is really time for us to come together and try to change the dialogue a little bit? did you see something in the culture? >> i want to build on what you

just said. almost everybody feels we are people that want to become builders that we are too silent. we are not taking action. and 250 moving partners across the spectrum . building so people can take it to their communities and start practicing those things.'s because social media and cable news, they are just filled with division and hate. and you have foreign governments leading to these rigid ideologies and disinformation. >> tons of disinformation. we have a strategy. we have platforms. we have this information on social media. and critical thinkers and how to navigate the. and providing universities network to help get everybody

in the understanding today with the understanding of how we treat one another and how we act and how we deploy, we can be builders or we can be destroyers. >> lonnie, you and i are old friends. and one of the proud moments of my life, is one muhammad ali would say, i'm watching the show. i bring him up because in many ways, what i heard about this, you are continuing the work the champ wanted. people don't talk about how he traveled to foreign countries to negotiate for peace and to help hostages. that part of muhammad ali is not remembered. and i think that you in the center of continuing his work is continuing the legacy of muhammad ali working along with

this project. >> that is very true. many years ago, daniel approached mohammed with the one voice movement with his work in the middle east and trying to build bridges. and mohammed signed on. when you talk about this it's courage, curiosity. the first thing he had was curiosity. he was curious about other people. he wanted to listen to what their journeys were and what they were doing. he always approached everyone with compassion. he had the courage to speak up and build bridges and talk to people who others might wonder, why are you associated with them, that kind of thing. unless we start to listen to one another and show that empathy and compassion for people who are experiencing pain as well, just like we are, we are never going to get anywhere. i feel like as a steward of his legacy, he would want me to be

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>> beautiful. that was a look at the new off- broadway show entitled laura but nancy, nobody cares. the autobiographical solo comedy show covers topics such as motherhood, relationships and even how to handle life as a recovering, from this. you are recovering from this? >> thank you for being with us. congratulations. >> thank you. >> it is a huge effort to be doing a one woman show . and

you wrote it? >> . it is a comedy show that i wrote and my friend cowrote the songs. their five original songs as well. >> incredible. >> thank you. >> give us the concept of "nobody cares . >> we care. >> that is why you came here. audible approached me. audible theater asking me if i wanted to write a show and then they record and put it on the platform. there are inherently so many things going on in the world that every time i started to write i said, nobody cares. this feels insane to me. as i started writing it, i said, i have lived a lot of life and some people might care. >> how do you decide what to share and what not to share? is it like throw open the book and put it all in? >> i really threw open the book. now that it is out there i was like, maybe some pages should

have been removed. and i'm proud of it. that is what i talk about. going from of pathological people pleaser to people who can stand in my own space. i did these things. it is very self-deprecating. and never punch down. just this way. so many young women came up and said, i feel like you wrote this for me and women my age and their mothers as well. and the husbands, i have to tell you that i hear men laughing so hard. >> let's take a look at another clip from the show where you confess that you don't always tell the truth to your children. take a look. >> lord, may i be forgiven. i look you straight in the eye and i lie. ♪ [ singing ] ♪ mama is a

liar. mama says stuff that's just not true. mama looks you in the eye and lies to you. i say nuggets are chicken. santa is real and bugs don't die when i squish them. it is just how i carry that inside to live forever where they are wild and free. because in america, everyone is so happy. mama is a liar. it doesn't mean i'm not sincere. i'm just feeling kind of stressed because i brought you here. >> that is a great point. >> very funny and relatable for any parent. as you said, open book. did you have any pause about involving her children? what has that moment been like and what has a reaction been like for other parents in the audience? >> i think other parents in the audience relate. they talk to me about that a lot. especially the song "mama is a

liar". because how do i say the world is broken to a little kid? my children are two and seven. i want them to still believe that piggly pool people are good. >> this is a picture of me when i was 11 years old and apparently awaiting my husband's returned from the first world war. i have considered a lot. my daughter is seven. the only stories i tell are the ones i asked her if i can tell. i try to explain. many people will see this. she is like, how many? and i'm like thousands. and she is like great. >> i want a cut of the action. >> it all trickles down to her. >> in 18 years old, you were in the sound of music with richard chamberlain. you won a tony award. with ensembles for the most part. >> i was the star but

continue. >> you know what i mean. >> i'm kidding. other people were on stage. >> even for somebody like you who knows how to on the stage, is it something entirely different to be alone up there for a show? >> i don't feel alone because i have the audience. the audien. have done that because i didn't know how to be myself, now i have grown into a woman who is every single day learning more and more about myself, so to be able to share that on a stage feels like a gift.>> that does it for us, we will be back tomorrow to kick off a brand- new week of morning joe. i'm so excited. monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, four hours per day. until then, enjoy the rest of your weekend. your weekend