mazzetti and myself. >> i appreciate all the work you've done. i would recommend it to my viewers. read the whole thing. it is long and detailed but with the of reading all of it. thank you so much, staff writer and author of "rise and kill, the secret history of israel's target assassinations." my new book "small acts of courage" just came out. i am traveling to several cities to talk about it. if you are in chicago today, join me at the chicago communities festival at the illinois institute of ecology to register and get tickets. had to

www.chicagohumanities.org/event next month, i am headed up to canada. i will be in calgary june 3rd, toronto june 24th and vancouver on june 27th. i will keep you posted on all the details on social media. you can follow me on all the things . i hope to see you there. that does it for me. thank you for watching. the katie phang show begins right now. w. >> donald trump lost two debates in 2020 and he has not shown up right away since then and acting like he wants to debate me again. make my day. >> the first matchup with no student what is to take place june 27th. the earliest in modern history. >> had i been present by, when adjusted for broad indictments, i would have parted him. it makes present abided the big and the person imparting the the little guy. >> this is the man that showed up to support donald trump, all wearing the same suit and the same type. >> they look like a due up group called the four reasons.

they look to a men's warehouse softball team. >> the testimony of former t donald trump lawyer and fixer, michael cohen . >> everybody -- the defense lawyer tried to poke holes in the recollections of michael cohen of conversations with mr. trump about the alleged hush money scheme, the lawyer asserting that was a lie. >> "when it comes to cross- examination, one of the most important things to know, when to sit down." weiser words have never been spoken. but the donald trump attorney may not be taking note. y as we veer into day four of cross-examination, will he know when to sit down? ♪ >> a pivotal week in the

donald trump new york election interferes trial with michael cohen on the witness stand. he is facing more than seven hours of cross-examination so far from defense lawyer todd blanche who attempted to paint h him as a serial liar and unreliable narrator. he brought up his 2018 guilty plea to tax evasion and other charges relating to his work ge for donald trump. michael cohen responded firmly , "i accepted responsibility and i am suffering the consequences as a result." todd blanche hammering on the idea that the testimony of michael cohen is a part of a larger revenge tour , noting his comments on a podcast saying donald trump was about to get a taste of what i went through and i promise it will not be fun. michael cohen will return to the witness stand for more cross-examination on tuesday morning. joining me to break it on down is a legal analyst and cohost

of the sisters-in-law podcast, and the author of the book, " attack from within." and we are joint by -- joined by anna. a number of jury trials, i have to start with that quote about gated and get out on the cross and how todd blanche has been e going for more than seven hours. can you remember what has landed in terms of a fatal blow at all through the cross- examination of michael atcohen >> yes, it seems that todd blanche has partaking in what ik call rookie mistakes . that is, going on too long, not having a specific plan, and asking one question too many. you know, as you suggested, the strategy of an effective cross- examination is to pick out a o few key areas of impeachment, contradiction, or getting the

witness to agree with helpful es points and be laser focused on those things so the jury can follow along. it may be that one of the things todd blanche is trying to do is exhaust michael cohen because that can be a strategy, wear them down so they lose their guard and admit the things they may not otherwise admit to. i don't think michael cohen will get on the stand and confess, you're right, todd blanche , i made it all up. what you want to do on cross- examination is get the facts out and use them in your own argument on cross -- on closing arguments. instead todd blanche is going on and on and try to get michael cohen to admit allies , just point out the contradiction and you can use it yourself. these are all about the es strategy, the process and critiquing todd blanche as a lawyer and the real arbiters will be the jury. i think that, if you are more focused on the key factors that

could be more persuasive with ul the jury. at the end of the day, having seen a lot of cross-examination of f cooperating witnesses, nothing here that was unexpected and i am sure the manhattan district attorney also expected before going into this case. >> anna, the perfect teeing up to you for the next question, maybe the defense is trying to exhaust michael cohen . but the jury is at risk of being exhausted by this. you have been inside the courtroom since day one, i have seen you there e multiple times. talk about whether the jury looks like they're actually interested in anything coming out from the cross. i know there has been a tennis match back and forth, but 7+ hours is a long time for a jury to sit there, even if they are taking notes. >> katie, you're right, they have been very engaged throughout the case. they have look like they have been watching a tennis match, movingn

their heads back and forth as they listen to questions. as todd blanche got into that second day of cross-examination where he was going over and over again with the subject he has already been over, he had a very disjointed and disorganized cross-examination with no clear themes or chapters. that was the first time i really started to notice that there were several jurors who look like they were downright bored. some of them maybe even nodding off. i don't know if that is what in fact was happening but it didn't seem like that was the first time they seemed to lose interest. it was not until about 20 minutes before the lunch es break that todd blanche got around to a more substantive point in which he was attacking michael cohen and his recollection of events, focusing on these phone calls that michael cohen said he had with

trump's bodyguard about the stormy daniels matter. not until then the jurors picked up and became interested again. again, it was poor timing on the part of todd blanche because this happened right before the lunch break. he did not get to carry that momentum into the afternoon session which is when he finally got around to the substance of the case. >> barb, we have heard from the prosecution that michael cohen will be the last witness called in their case. do you think there was a strategic error that we will not hear from keith schiller, maybe another witness? >> number one i never wanted to start or stop with a cooperator because they have issues and they know that. i wanted to start and end on a high note. they will do a redirect on michael cohen and, emphasized the key things of the testimonyh

maybe they considered that to be a high note. i wanted a safe with to conclude to finish strong. to your point about keith schiller, i think the jury will wonder where they were, they are in a position to share information that could confirm the story that michael cohen is telling them . they will wonder. the jury will be instructed that you should not consider the guilt or innocence of anybody else in deciding whether this defendant is guilty. there is a lot of things that are kept from a jury and they have to do the best they can with the information they have in front of them. i wonder why they were not called. both are likely to invoke the fifth amendment right against self-incrimination but the prosecution has the power of immunizing them. maybe they're still worried they will say l things helpful to donald trump or perjure themselves if they are speculating. their goal is to convict donald

trump and not to prosecute someone else for perjury. it is risky but those are strategic choices that te prosecutors have to make when assessing the pros and cons of s calling particular witnesses. >> this is the perfect point to point out that you are both sticking with me, because, after the break, the donald al trump defense, to be or not to be, there is still a looming possibility the former president could take the ngstan more on the katie phang show , keep it right here. i thought i. but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married. sup? -who are you? i'm your inner and wechild. get in.tter. listen, what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going.

what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. deep down, i knew something was wrong. since my fatigue and light-headedness would come and go, i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not you have afib. but if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait.com

you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs]

i don't want you to move. i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity.

with the prosecution already announcing michael cohen is the last witness, monday morning will be illuminating, will donald trump put on any defense? one perspective expert witness could be bradley smith, but not smith who everyone wants to hear from you as donald trump has repeatedly said, he has no problem taking the stand. one betting site says there is a 6.28% chance that the former president will take the witness stand, which has dropped by 5% from earlier in the week following the conclusion of the testimony from michael cohen . would you take those odds? back with barb and anna. anna, why put on a case at all if you are the defense? especially if you don't have to carry the burden which is on

the prosecution? >> one thing they may want to do is try to impeach the credibility of michael cohen with a prior inconsistent statements they allege he has made. you may put someone on like bob castillo who has said that he is willing to testify. he was the witness who testified on behalf of donald trump before the grand jury in new york when donald trump was indicted last year. the grand jury did not credit his testimony. the jurors already in this case heard a number of things about him, he was the attorney who tried to represent michael cohen after michael cohen began being investigated by federal authorities in 2018 related to the karen mcdougal matter. during those conversations castillo was having with michael cohen , he said he had nothing on donald trump but

michael cohen has already told the jurors on direct examination that, he was not telling the truth to costello because he wanted to stay loyal to donald trump and he was the subject of a pressure campaign in which costello was making references to donald trump helping them out, like sleep well tonight, you have friends in high places. this is a strategy that benefits -- the defendant might want to put on, they may have him speak to michael cohen being a liar, the main theme of the defense case, but i am doubtful they will put robert costello on, because it opens him up to cross-examination by the prosecution. we will see.

as you said, the question of whether donald trump will take the stand. if he does, there is a number of things the prosecution can ask him about, like the carroll case in which he was said to have defamed her, and his civil fraud case in which he was found to have fraudulently misstated his assets. they can ask him about being held in contempt of court in that case. a lot of risks if donald trump takes the stand and that is what i am doubtful, less than a 6% chance that he will do so. >> barb, donald trump has been charged with 34 felonies, there has to be the intent to conceal or commit another crime, how important is it for the prosecution to explain in closing arguments to the jury that they, the prosecution,

they don't need to prove that secondary offense beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt? there is no additional burden, almost like having two trials in one. >> i think making sure the jury understands that case is important, i went to trial school for new prosecutors at the department of justice and they explained that most often, when a jury returned a not guilty verdict in a case against the government, not because they did not believe the government, it was because they did not understand the government's case. in complex white-collar cases, it could be the jury does not follow along. because the government bears the burden of proof, if they don't follow along, they lose. it is important people have said, what did he do wrong? nobody understands the crime. it is not difficult but that prosecution needs to make sure the jury understands that and they will get it in two ways,

through the jury instructions, the court will explain the law. that there does need to be this falsification of business records with intent to defraud by concealing another crime. it does not need to be proved that the other crime was committed just that there was an intent to do so. the other crime is this campaign-finance violation. the contribution by michael cohen that exceeds the $2000 limit, the contribution by ami, a corporation, in violation of the law. the intent is what matters, not the actual commission. it will be the burden on the prosecution to prove that. >> we will see you again very soon. anna, i will see you in new york in a few days. coming up, i hear you are free on wednesdays, the two plan debates between joe biden and donald trump and why the biden administration shot down the idea of adding two more last night. capital hill climb back,

jasmine crockett is here on our fire exchange with how the maga caucus is governing by chaos instead of doing the real work americans need them to do. stay with us. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack?

trust safelite. this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... then we got to work. we replaced his windshield... ...and installed new wipers to protect his new glass. >> customer: looks great. thank you. >> tech: my pleasure. >> vo: we come to you for free. schedule now for free mobile service at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ introducing kardiamobile. with kardiamobile, the fda-cleared smart device, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. and it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation. and it's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. i mean, you might as well be in a doctor's office. get kardiamobile today for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon.

(ella) fashion moves fast. for just $79 at setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon. a test or approve a medication. we didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. and our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our lives.

frizz. dryness. breakage. new dove 10-in-1 serum hair mask with peptide complex. fortifies hair bonds at a molecular level. helps reverse ten signs of damage in one minute. keep living. we'll keep repairing. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep...

...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand. and wakes up feeling like himself. get the rest to be your best with non-habit forming zzzquil. ♪ ♪ here at the katie phang show, we are keeping scores, house republicans famous for getting nothing done in washington but they did manage to get two things done this week, neither helps americans and both or a colossal waste of time. one, a committee recommendation to attorney general merrick garland in contempt of court for refusing to release audiotapes from special counsel interview with president biden. not contempt of court but contempt of congress. the second, allowing congresswoman marjorie taylor greene to insult two of her

fellow lawmakers with impunity. here is some of the exchange between greene and representatives jasmine crockett and aoc. >> do you know why we are here? >> out of order. >> you are talking about -- >> i think your fake eyelashes are messing up. >> hold on! >> how dare you attack the physical appearance of another person. >> are your feelings hurt? >> baby girl! >> you are out of order. >> you don't have enough intelligence. if someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde bad built butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities, correct? >> what now? [ laughter ] >> joining is texas congresswoman jasmine crockett , member of the house oversight and accountability committee i

will give you a 10, gold medal for that alliteration. you responded on social media after that dustup. saying, this is what happens when mentally deficient people who cannot read and follow rules or don't give a end up in congress. do you have any other thoughts or your fellow congresswoman? >> don't come for me. that is all i need to tell her. we showed up ready to work but we could not have our hearing at 11:00, even though this was a hearing, and ridiculous we needed to have it. we showed up. they are in the majority and they set the agenda, this is what they believe is a priority for the american people. they decided they would skip work and go to new york to be involved in the trial of donald trump. we get back at 8:00 p.m. and, instead of focusing on

what the task at hand was, whether or not merrick garland would be held in contempt of congress, marjorie taylor greene started talking about the judge in the case, and i asked her, do you know why we are here? it devolved and the chairman broke the agreement he had made with her to be -- her words taken down, which meant she would have to leave the committee which would have helped everybody. he decided to change his ruling and i decided to inquire through a point of inquiry about what and could -- what could and could not be said. >> i want to talk about a new york times report with an upside down flag was flown outside the home of supreme court justice samuel alito. in january of 2021, between the

january 6 attack on the capitol and the inauguration of president biden. the flag is a symbol by protesters used by them that year, contesting the results of the 2020 election, justice alito blaming his wife, saying he had no involvement. total chaos with the gop in the house and before another residence election with a fear of more violence because january 6th was not an aberration but apparently the norm. when you hear somebody like a supreme court justice is flying the flag upside down supporting insurrectionist, what do you think? >> first of all, the fact that we have all of these grown men in powerful positions that are pointing to their wives and saying, look over there but don't look at me, i want to introduce them to a song called "we are one."

two, you know what, we just rode out our court reform task force, myself and jamie raskin, adam schiff, and hank johnson, we have three pieces of legislation we believe should be moved forward and we want to better educate our colleagues in the house about why this should be a bipartisan issue. we need reform and we needed it not now but yesterday. right now, we will push forward and try to make sure there is some accountability and ethics. obviously, you don't have to be a lawyer to know that there should be a refusal on any of the january 6th things that will come before this court by not only alito but by clarence thomas, he has a wife, i don't know why they're trying to separate the two that he has a wife that was engaged in actions and a disgrace that took place on january 6th. >> congresswoman jasmine

crockett to thank you for joining us, especially after that dustup during the committee hearing. good to see you. joining me on the decision 2024 is a republican strategist and msnbc strategist. zero to two presidential debates and donald trump called for president biden to get a drug test before the debate, something donald trump tried to pull in 2020 as well. what do you make of the debates coming up and, i think, i am not sure donald trump will show up. calling for drug testing, is this the chaos we can expect from donald trump as we lead up to the first debate? >> absolutely, donald trump works in chaos, he cannot deal with factual policy, so he doesn't chaos. it is worth noting how joe biden got the best of donald trump on the issue of debates.

he really flip the script because, for a couple months, when donald trump has been throwing out there anytime and anyplace, i want to debate joe biden, joe biden came out with a great video that ended with humor and a little jab, saying, i hear you are free on wednesday because court for his criminal trial is not in session on wednesday. he set the terms. there are two i am shocked he agreed with, there is no audience to be there in the studios. and, i should add, there is going to be a way to turn off the mic if they go over time, joe biden got the best of donald trump. >> susan, not just biden and trump, rfk jr. who thinks he is a chance and have accused joe

biden and donald trump colluding to keep him off the stage and tried to get on state ballots so he can qualify. does he have the time to qualify? >> it depends on what happens with something like the libertarian party. there may be other places he plans on getting on the ballot through a national party. here is the thing, this is not something that is done through the debate commission which now should be called the default debate commission because they are not calling the shots. these are two candidates saying what they will accept and what they want if neither of them will get on the stage with rfk jr., he will not be on stage. >> susan, you wrote about the parade of maga faithful, they went on a pilgrimage to new york to attend their coleader's

criminal trial, you said donald trump is transparent and transactional, whether you want a job, have a job, need a job, you better be there when donald trump calls. the most absurd thing about what is happening at this trial , none of them will be a vp pick, why debase your self? >> they may need a job, they may want a job, they want to be on the good side of donald trump, and a way of having a national profile. it does get covered. i think the most interesting one was when mike johnson went there. the speaker of the house to lower himself to go to a criminal trial and speak up for donald trump was just absurd. yes, mike johnson owes donald trump a lot which shows how

influential donald trump is on the gop right now. >> quickly, voters in colorado's weather abortion as a constitutional right this november, they will join four other states who have made similar measures on the november ballot, including my state of florida. other states also want to make this happen. susan, how important is it for the democrats to continue to lean into reproductive rights to get people to the polls in november? i think vice president harris has been doing an amazing job, as has president biden. >> they have to keep going down the pathway, in florida, remember, you need 60% of the vote to pass it. they need trump voters to vote for the amendment. that is the tricky part in the states where the democrats are trying to push the ballot

initiatives. they will be republicans, even donald trump republicans to get the legislation passed. >> susan, republicans get abortions, too. good to see you. and, news, one of the most loyal defenders of donald trump, rudy giuliani, served with his indictment for his role in the arizona fae collector's case on friday, get this done during his 80th birthday party in florida. a video stream cuts off before he got served. his spokesperson responded to the indictment saying, we look forward to full vindication soon. yeah, i don't think so. tomorrow, msnbc presents battleground georgia, the latest installment of the turning point documentary series from trevor noah, it breaks down the complex history of voting across the self and how georgia take the lead the charge in this pivotal moment

tune in right here tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. coming up, donald trump the executioner come inside his project 2025 plant to kill every inmate on death row if he manages to win the white house in november. a terrifying conversation you don't want to miss. keep it here.

44 people are in federal

death row right now their fate could be decided this november in a presidential election between two men with starkly different views about the use of capital punishment. president biden has promised to abolish the federal death penalty altogether. that has not occurred yet, he has paused all executions on a federal level since taking office. if donald trump returns to the oval office, that could change. especially if you adopt the policy recommendations of project 2025, an ultraconservative agenda drafted by the heritage foundation meant to guide the next republican in the white house. on the show, we have covered aspects of the plan before and today we will focus on his radical ideas for capital punishment. urges the next president to obtain banality for every single person on federal death row. that is calling for them to be put to death immediately. joining me is a senior advisor

to the lincoln project, resident scholar at the virginia center for politics. project 2025 is top of mind as we go into november. one component i want to focus on his death penalty as republicans have seized on crime as a winning campaign issue in previous places and times. as someone who has handled messaging for the gop before, what are you hearing in this plan to, not only enforced federal capital punishment, but expand it? >> this is part of the overall messaging that the gop has engaged in since donald trump came down the escalator. they recognize that resurrecting the old playbook from the nixon days of law and order and fear and loathing of the other is a motivating and powerful tool for the electorate whether they create bogeyman. are the legitimate concerns

about crime? yes, always been. the way they are doing this, they are trying to put forth this authoritarian way of reposting these things. desensitizing people by using certain language, under the guise and auspices of public safety. we are trying to protect you doesn't this make sense? republicans are very good at using language that bonds them to their audience. for example, deliberately use the term mandate in the title of the 2025 project and a conservative promise in 1994, when i worked on the contract with america election cycle, way back when when i was a young bushytailed republican, the contract with america was another example of messaging where the republicans spoke directly to the mecca people and said, we are engaging with a contract with you, if you elect as, this is what we promise to do for you. that resonated and republicans

won the congress. they are trying to do something similar with project 2025 but the contents is scary and should scare the jesus out of every american as we dissect this more and more given how authoritarian and fascist it really is. >> the person who would leave that authoritarian party would be donald trump. let's talk about the fact, in 1989, during the trial of the central park five, donald trump took out ads in the papers with the headlines, bring back the death penalty. all five of those men were exonerated 13 years later. donald trump has never show remorse for those statements and here is some of what he has said about the issue in recent years. >> we can have all the blue ribbon committee's we want, but if we don't get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time. remember that. we are wasting our time. that toughness includes the

death penalty. [ applause ] we are going to be asking everyone who sells drugs and get caught selling drugs, to get the death penalty for their heinous act. it is the only way. [ applause ] >> in his final months in office , 13 death row inmates were put to death, there had not been a federal execution in 17 years prior. we speak frankly, let's do that now, it is a dog whistle, too. there is a disproportionate representation in our criminal justice system from communities of color. knowing all of that, including his position on the central park five, is this a way to legitimize and codify going after communities of color? >> well, donald trump's history of racism and bigotry is well-documented. now i'm not even a dog whistle,

a train whistle, very obvious. something about donald trump has concerned me about the normalization of his behavior and his bowling narcissism and obsession and fantasizing about death and violence. the characteristic of a weak man. he thinks this tough talk and rhetoric is a show of strength. it is not. he is a weak little man trying to play a strong man. he wants to put general mailing to death over the fact -- millie to death and a staffer to death for treason he linked he was hiding in a bunker during a protest. in lafayette square, the gestapo tactic he used to push down protesters. he bragged about china, having the answer to drugs by putting people to

death. this is a sick and twisted men that get off on this idea of violence and, when you put someone like this in a position of power and the implement something like project 2025, basically putting a strong federal government in place of the elected officials in this country and our balance of government, nothing conservative republican about that, it is authoritarian. message to my democratic friends who think they can sit on their hands and do whatever tantrum about what is going on because they don't get what they want for president biden, think about what president trump wants to do in this country, from women's rights to people of color, two people to want to protest and have freedom, women's reproductive rights, voting rights, two basic judicial justice. donald trump will ruin all of that. joe biden was to protect them from this country, maybe it is not perfect but better than authoritarianism because you cannot turn back from that. that is my warning. >> amen.

thanks for being here and bringing it. coming up next, going for the gold, a paralympian medalist stopped by after the break to talk about how he is prepping for the games in paris this summer. and what it means to represent aapi adaptive athletes around the world. keep it right here. ome dang tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging.

deep down, i knew something was wrong. since my fatigue and light-headedness would come and go, i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not you have afib. but if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait.com

may is aapi heritage month and we continue our celebration of the contributions asian- americans and pacific islanders have made to our nation's culture from music, media, film , sports, and more. team usa japanese-american wheelchair rugby cocaptain, chuck aoki, will be in paris with his custom-made aerospace grade aluminum wheelchair to go for the gold medal in the chuck

aoki. i have that three-time medalist and team usa wheelchair rugby cocaptain, chuck aoki . thank you for joining us today. adaptive athletes can play so many different sports. what attracted you to the sport of rugby? >> that is a great question. thank you for having me. i grew up and played a lot adaptive sports, tried everything, basketball, track and field, swimming. i heard about this whole can't export as a 15-year-old boy. it sounded fun. i went to a practice and got beat up for 2.5 hours. i fell in love with it. i never looked back. >> chuck, how does it feel to be a role model at this time? you never had younger adaptive athletes to look up to to inspire you you found that inspiration.

you can now serve as a role model for others. >> it means so much, katie. adaptive athletes are not super visible. through my advocacy work in my career in athletics, social media, when you grow up disabled, you seek professional athletes but nobody who looks like you. it is a powerful thing, if you can see it, you can be it, but if you cannot see it, you cannot be it. do not pretend like the disability does not exist and embrace it and help others, young kids or adults with a disability. embrace the disability. it is part of your life and you can still achieve a lot. >> chuck, we are playing on our screen some clips of you competing with your other teammates. i am in awe at the sheer

physicality of the sport. what does it take for you to train to compete at this level? >> it is a full-time commitment. this is our full-time job, what we do every day. the wheelchair i use is 45 pounds and the everyday wheelchair is 20 pounds. we get hit and knocked around. we have to keep going despite it. incredible physical effort, it takes incredible training, i am in the gym now, fresh off the court. i would not trade it for anything else. it is a special thing. >> chuck, this summer in paris will be a fourth time at the game and a chance for team usa to bring home the gold in the sport, since last winning in 2008 and getting you your first gold medal. what is inspiring you to keep

going? >> like all athletes, i have a desire to be the best. whether professional athletics, the gold medal is the highest honor you can achieve. it is also a lot of fun. i love to play the sport. the teammates i started with. we were all teenagers and in our early 20s and we are all married out with kids. incredible group of athletes we get to be around and spend time with. i want to do it for them as much as everybody, i want to do it for my family who have sacrificed a lot. there is a core of us who have been together for 10 years almost. some it may be their last game and i want to deliver for them so they can go out with a gold medal. >> when we tune in to watch you and your team compete in paris, who shall we be looking at as your top competition going into

the summer? >> the paralympics have grown in the last decade , probably about seven countries that could win the gold medal. our top competition is australia , japan, and the homesite of france has come on strong lately. deep pool. five games in five days, a marathon and a sprint, we have to bring it every game. >> people want to show support, a website or somewhere they can go to show support for adaptive athletes competing in the paralympics ? >> for wheelchair rugby, we have website, the biggest one is support us on social media, team usa, nbc, all the properties. if you're interested, talk

about it, post about it, yell, be that annoying person who won't stop talking about it. i recommend social media, it is a powerful tool and you can use it for really good. uplifting. follow team usa throughout the paralympics in about 100 days. >> chuck aoki , best of luck, we will be cheering you on. >> thank you. >> thank you for joining us, catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern and follow us on social media using @katiephangshow. listen to the podcast for free, scan the qr code on the screen to follow msnbc reports with alex witt is coming up next. eak'

. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. before planning the big trip

you were limping thanks to a bad knee. then, you heard about mako robotic-assisted knee replacement. it starts with a ct scan to pinpoint the problem. that becomes a personalized, 3d plan to guide your doctor during surgery. mako can help lead to better outcomes, like less pain and shorter recovery times. the lifetime of a knee implant is limited, and revision surgery may be required. individual results and recovery times vary. risks of surgery include pain, infection, heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious risks. ask your doctor for important safety information. [camera shutter] to find a doctor who uses mako visit makocan.com