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that does it. >> we are done? >> that's it. "velshi" is going to start right now. ali velshi, take it away. >> it is nice to see you all. i am in chicago today. i love the city and i am going to be at the chicago humanities fest with jen psaki this afternoon, so that will be fun. a little field trip for us, but i am glad you are holding down the fort on that end. have a great rest of the day

and i will see you tomorrow. and thanks to you at home for joining us. today on "velshi", the story of a symbol of election deniers and capital rioters on display at the home of a supreme court justice keeps getting worst. the disturbing new context being offered by the justice himself. plus, the tactic offered by so-called real republicans to convince them that their party is not dead. i have a lot of questions for two of the people behind the latest effort to salvage our two-party system. then who is behind the group spending tens of millions of dollars in democratic primaries to try to oust the most progressive candidates? "velshi" starts now. good morning to you. it is saturday, may 18. we begin this morning with a

stunning new revelation that has revived concerns about the ethical standards of one of america's most important institutions, the supreme court. this week the new york times published a report that cast fresh doubt about the impartiality of a second supreme court justice possibly linked to the politics of january 6. the report was published as the country awaits a pair of decisions from the high court that could have an impact on january 6 related prosecutions, including the federal election interference case against the presumptive republican presidential nominee donald trump. central to the new york times reporting is a photograph, this photograph, of an upside down american flag on a residential property owned by the supreme court justice, samuel alito. historically flying the flag upside down has been known as a signal of distress. sailors at sea understood this as an emergency. it has since been co-opted as a political signal for a variety of movements. a signal to indicate deep

disapproval of a particular issue or politician. in the 1960s and 1970s, flags were flown upside down by those protesting the vietnam war. for some tea party conservatives in 2012 it was a symbol of opposition to barack obama's reelection victory. we saw it again in 2022 as people came out to protest the supreme court decision to overturn roe v. wade, the opinion for which was written by justice alito. in the wake of the 2020 presidential election, as it became clear that joe biden had won the race and trump launched his campaign of lies in an effort to overturn those results, the upside down flag was largely understood as a symbol of opposition to biden. online, trump supporters encouraged people to display flags in that manner to protest the outcome of the election. on one forum a protester wrote, if january 6 rolls around and biden is confirmed by the

electoral college our nation is in distress. if you cannot go to the d.c. rally then you must do your duty and show your support for our president by flying the flag upside down, end quote. on january 6 the associated press photographed at least one rioter waving an inverted flag on the steps of the capitol. according to the times, the newly surfaced photo was taken on january 17, 2021, in the days between the insurrection and biden's inauguration on january 20. it was taken by one of alito's neighbors and other residents corroborated that the flag was displayed that way for an unspecified number of days. meanwhile, at the supreme court the justices were deciding whether to take up a case brought by trump allies challenging pennsylvania's mail- in voting system. a case that could have had implications on the outcome of the election. alito was in favor of

reviewing the case, but the majority on the bench decided against it. when this story first came out earlier this week, i have to admit i wanted to treat it with a healthy dose of skepticism. it seemed too outrageous to be true that a member of the supreme court would be so brazen or foolish or neglectful so as to allow political system to be displayed at his home so openly, yet it turns out that that seems to be the case. in an emailed statement alito wrote, quote, i had no involvement whatsoever in the flying of the flag. it was briefly placed by misses alito in response to the a neighbor's use of language on yard signs. notably, and given the opportunity, justice alito does not dispute that the flag on his property was flown upside down during the time period in question, nor does he dispute the symbolism of it. he does not disavow or express regret that it had been displayed negatively in such a

way that it tarnishes the reputation of the supreme court. instead he blames his wife. alito's predicament is in addition to the concerns surrounding clarence thomas, whose wife has been scrutinized for her activities. she admitted attending the rally on january 6 and it was also revealed that in the days after the election she was in contact with john eastman, one of the architects of the fae collectors scheme who is now facing criminal charges. recent reports of raised additional questions about both justices and their links to billionaire conservative donors and history of accepting gifts and luxury trips from them. their actions, as well as the apparent lack of concern over the impropriety of their actions, have contributed to the decline in public trust in the supreme court and this is all playing out against the backdrop of an incredibly important election that the court has already influenced in some ways.

the highly criticized decision to even hear trump's case regarding presidential immunity means that the ex-presidents case is unlikely to proceed to trial before november. given all that we know about the conduct of some of the justices, every american citizen will have reason to doubt the fairness of the decision on matters related to the insurrection and the former president. joining me now is president and ceo of's citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, also known as crew, which brought a lawsuit on behalf of colorado voters regarding donald trump's eligibility to be on the ballot. also with us is a senior opinion writer and columnist for the boston globe and a msnbc political analyst. good morning and thank you for being with us. with trump versus anderson, the lawsuit brought by your organization on behalf of

voters. in a statement in response to this story about justice alito, you wrote, quote, the republican and unaffiliated colorado voters who brought the case had considerable personal risk, assumed that every member of the supreme court, including justice alito, would give their case a fair hearing, free of bias. we can no longer assure them that that is what has happened. tell me more about that. >> so this was a case brought by republicans and unaffiliated voters. people who knew that by stepping out and saying that the constitution prohibited donald trump from running for president because of his role in the insurrection, they knew that neighbors, friends, longtime associates, people around them, would react negatively. that they would face immense blowback and they took this on because they believed it was right for america.

one of the reasons why they were willing to do that was the belief that in our legal system, everybody gets a fair hearing. now it turns out that at least one of the justices who heard this case heard this case knowing that he had publicly displayed a symbol that indicated essentially in affiliation with donald trump's position, his false position, that he had won that election that in fact he lost. in affiliation with people who participated in the insurrection. judges are supposed to recuse if there is a reasonable basis to believe they cannot be impartial. in this case there is at the very least a reasonable basis and it is very disparaging for these folks who took on the

kind of opposition from their neighbors that justice alito is claiming. they are regular people, not supreme court justices. and they could not know that they had a fair hearing in the supreme court. >> i was trying to be as rational as i could about this and giving justice alito the benefit of the doubt, thinking perhaps he will explain that from time to time he puts the flag on the wrong way or something like this happens. he made no such effort. he made a statement to the new york times and a statement of fox news and at no point did he seem to identify the issue, that this is a symbol or at least at the time was a symbol of something. he did not disavow the symbol. he didn't do anything about it. from a legal perspective, what could have been an accident or a thing that happened in a moment in time, though hard to explain, how does this play into the fact that this is a justice on the supreme court now hearing a case directly related to something that he

seems to have made a very public political statement about? >> he is actually hearing two cases directly related to january 6, one brought by the convicted rioters that day, trying to throw out their convictions and also of course the case for donald trump's immunity for his acts on january 6. there is so much to say about this, about why it is upsetting, but i think one fact we need to remind people is this was done in response, by his wife according to the justice, to negative messaging from neighbors. i was expecting that messaging to be directed at them or at the supreme court, but the sign basically said, expletive trump. they were angry at their neighbor with vocal and strong opposition to donald trump and chose to display that by putting up a symbol of the january 6 insurrection, which

was used by many of those insurrectionists. i can't think of any other textbook example of a conflict of interest and i think at this point when we have already seen everything put out, to close connections with conservative donors. his courting of them even at his own dinner table. conservatives aligned with cases that he has heard. his refusal to abide by the nonbinding rules that the supreme court set up for themselves after this. he has recused himself from some cases, but has not given a reason why, although that is what they are supposed to do under their own guidelines. i think at this point we need to see chief justice john roberts, who can't force him to recuse, but take some sort of strong action to indicate that this is damaging to the u.s. supreme court and its reputation and its institutional standing.

what this says to me, ali, is justice alito is not sorry. that flag flew on his home for several days. he can't blame that on his wife. that is his home. he is a supreme court justice, he knows better and at some point something has to be done. >> let's talk about this recusal. in your statement from c.r.e.w. you also called for the recusal of justice alito in any cases pertaining to the january 6 election -- insurrection or 2020 election. people have also called for justice thomas to recuse himself from similar cases, too, and he has not done that. talk to me about this. we are going to probably have a decision from the supreme court before we have action on this. whether that is recusals that you have asked for which are less than likely to happen or as kimberly says, some involvement by chief justice

roberts, commenting on these issues or saying that he is going to take some action. the reality is we will probably get a decision on donald trump's immunity first. >> i think that is right. kimberly is absolutely right that the need for recusal is clear. there is just simply no credible way that justice alito can say this appeared in front of his house for several days and he did not know about it. he had nothing to do with it. he doesn't even really try to say that. he does not deny it. say that he had no idea what it was about. even if all of that was true, even if he had no idea, we now all know that this was in front of his house. so that in and of itself is a reasonable basis to question his impartiality. he ought to recognize that and say there is no way i can

participate in these decisions and have people think i was impartial. of course he should recuse. unfortunately in the court it is almost unheard of for any other member including the chief justice to weigh in on recusal by another member. it is not how they do things. they tend to say we are all the best arbiters of our own ethical issues and ethical decisions, which is never a good way to make decisions. none of us are truly objective as to ourselves, so there needs to be a change. i think you are right that it is hard to believe there will be a change before the decisions in these cases, but these cases go to the heart of the survival of our democracy going forward and if they issue in a way where we can't trust their impartiality, that is as strong an indication as we will ever get that something is very wrong at the supreme court that needs to be addressed. >> add this to the list of

things voters need to think about as the next election comes along. thank you to both of you. the ceo of citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington and kimberly atkins stohr is a senior opinion writer and columnist for the boston globe and a msnbc political analyst. coming up, i talked to two former republican congressman whose goal is to resurrect the republican party of old. can it work? i have a lot of questions for these very optimistic folks. first, a remarkable look at life inside gaza from some citizen journalists who are living there. unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there.

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since the war began, israel has imposed strict limits on foreign journalists ability to access gaza unless accompanied by the israeli military. since foreign journalists have had extremely limited access, the vast majority of images, videos, and first-hand reports the world has seen from the region are coming from palestinian journalists who are already inside. according to the committee to protect journalist, the 224 days since october 7 have been the deadliest period for journalists since the organization began collecting data in 1992. at least 105 journalists and media workers have been killed in the war since it began october 7. 100 of them are palestinian. in this context, regular people have become a rare window into life inside the gaza strip. doctors have taken it upon themselves to film the condition of their hospitals.

they recorded their own video testimony about mass civilian casualties, orphaned children and having to perform surgeries without anesthetic. there are a handful of remarkable accounts by palestinian civilians, who are not journalists by trade, but have taken it upon themselves to document their lives in a war zone. for instance, two teenage boys have started to gain a following of their own, posting day in the life videos from where they are currently living and evacuating from their family homes in northern gaza at the start of the war. last year omar and mohammed who are 18 and 19 years old began posting videos on instagram of their daily routine in the war zone. >> hi, this is mohammed. >> and this is omar. >> we are from gaza and currently we are doing an initiative for children. >> the boys explain they went to college for about a week before the war broke out and

they have not been back to school since. they want to make enough money to get their families out of gaza, to be safe and finish our higher education. so they set up businesses where they sell sims and rent out video games. they even run a chess club. many videos feature little kids in refugee camps playing chess or dancing. they put on a display of the difficult realities of war, but they also make jokes, play soccer, and sing in the street. >> day 17 of sharing our daily routine in the war zone. >> people are excited because they say maybe there will be a cease-fire by the end of the day. i don't know. pray for us. >> day 29 of sharing our daily routine in a war zone. >> look how crazy at the bakery because of the lack of flour, people are struggling to find bread. >> and omar was going to receive -- >> because of the evacuation,

the intense population cost of this pollution and the sewage system is broken. that will cause the illness and spread of bugs around here. then we went to the beach and found everyone was relaxing on the beach and there was someone playing football, so we decided to join him. >> now for a few weeks of posting these videos, omar and mohammed received comments from people expressing disbelief about their positive attitudes and even some people commenting that life doesn't look so bad. some expressing doubts about the impact of the war. they posted a video in response. >> when the war first started, we were first to evacuate, to leave our home. unfortunately my relatives in the same home we used to live could not comment couldn't find a place to evacuate. most of them were killed and some of them survived with horrific disabilities and injuries. >> on my last birthday i

remember that both of my parents were out of the city and i was buying my own. that is when my friend remembered my birthday and decided to surprise me, bringing me a birthday cake and surprising me. i wanted to show how much love i owed to him. i wanted to surprise him back on his birthday. he was killed in gaza. >> i've been to refugee camps in jordan, turkey, on the syrian border in both cases and to the sites of school shootings and aftermath of disasters and two things are always true. there is horror and their are always people trying to find beauty or respite in life. people under threat and pressure strive for normalcy well beyond the point that it is reasonable to believe there is any normalcy to be found and that is the strength of the human condition. people try to find a laugh or a smile, a moment of rest and enjoyment, even if they know

this may be their last day on earth. they try to find something that makes them human, but that does not undercut how bad things actually are on the ground in gaza. one of their videos shows them playing soccer with no commentary about the war. the caption read simply, despite the hardships and struggles at the end of the day we are humans. we are trying to live. oost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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saudi arabia and israel this weekend to resurrect negotiations. it comes as desperately needed humanitarian aid is entering gaza in a new way. a temporary, u.s. constructed peer that is now operational. i will take you through the voyage and cumbersome delivery of this. aid first arrives in cyprus, a small island nation in the mediterranean, where it is screened and loaded on u.s. military ships. then trucks carrying things like food, water, medical supplies, hygiene kits and shelters and more are offloaded from the ships onto the pier and from there driven onshore. as the u.s., the u.n. and other nations and aid groups note, while this is important and welcome, it is, by no means, a substitute for land routes which are far more efficient and much faster. as for the land routes, the few that are open are slow and some

aid caravans have come under attacks by extremist israelis. the main entry for aid into gaza, the rafah crossing on the egyptian border, is now under israeli control and is closed. as for rafah, israel continues military operations around the city, pushing closer and continuing to vow a major offensive, claiming it is a final stronghold. it is also home to more than 1 million palestinian refugees who were initially told by the palestinian military -- by the israeli military to go to rafah to seek shelter. joining me now is a former foreign secretary of the united kingdom and the author of rescue, refugees and the political crisis of our time. good to see you again. thank you for being here. in the last block we showed a video of these kids who were trying to survive and do the things it takes to survive and

the criticism they got by people who said this doesn't seem believable if you are living in this war zone. you know a lot about refugees and one of the things you know is people will take whatever little they have and try to make something that resembles a life out of it. >> thank you and thank you for showing those remarkable videos. i always say to people if you only look at the statistics you get depressed, but if you look at the people you have hope. it is the hope that you see and the courage and tenacity and sometimes humor of the organizations like the international rescue committee. so the light that you shown on that extraordinary resilience, the human spirit, i think is very important. equally i appreciate the friending you have done because there are some very straightforward ways of addressing the humanitarian crisis in gaza today. remember it is a population twice as dense as new york city. it is suffering -- essentially

the border crossings have been closed. just to put it in context, since i was on your show three weeks ago, despite the unspeakable conditions of sewage flowing through the streets, of doctors unable to work in hospitals because they don't have medicine, the situation has actually got worse because cease-fire talks have broken down. the borders are now closed, so while we welcome any aid from the pier as you mentioned, yesterday 15 trucks equivalent worth of food came through and before the war started it was 500 trucks a day. so we need to get perspective. >> you tweeted on this yesterday. you said we are all desperate to get more aid and aid workers into gaza. any additions are welcome. but never forget, land routes are simpler and more direct, so

land crossings need to be open and not closed and in gaza we need much freer flow of aids to those in need. help me understand this because the pier was treated as a big deal and in a situation like this any help is useful. for a while they were doing air drops of food. that can be both dangerous and does not get distributed well. what is preventing us from just getting aid in thereby road. -- in thereby road? >> there are two things. i mean literally food, medicine, et cetera, also aid workers. getting into gaza the problem is one, there are not enough trucks being allowed in. two, trucks get turned back because of allegations that medical equipment could be used for military use as well as civilian use. for example, even a pair of scissors gets not just tossed out of the truck, the whole

truck gets turned back. so you have this squeeze at the border and within gaza there are roads that can be driven down, but there are checkpoints and very well documented stories of even u.n. convoys getting turned around and fired upon. it is a war zone, but that is not an excuse for the requirement in which civilians are allowed to live. they said along side what has happened in the last few weeks as the bureaucracy has gotten worse and the war has got worse, too. >> we've talked about the kind of money it would take to rebuild gaza. less money than you would think given how much money there is in the world. what about society. talk to me about rebuilding the society. you talked about imminent famine. one thing is it is not a switch. you don't go from famine to not famine in a day. there are structural things that happen in a society when people start to die of hunger and then there are political

things when people are dying of hunger by something that is not caused by natural causes. tell me about what that rebuild looks like, not just the monetary rebuild of gaza once this is over. >> oliveira experiences that the biggest renewable source is hope. if people have hope you can build politics, build institutions, build a future. if they have no hope, then i am afraid it is a vicious circle. we work with kids and the potential for kids to turn around after the war. we finished an extraordinary project with kids and have seen the remarkable progress organizations can make. your viewers can click and see it online. we have shown that if kids are given a hope of the future, they will grasp it, like you showed with the kids playing football, what you call soccer, on the beach. you can build hope.

i'm afraid that the cats, the money, is the least of the problems. the biggest problem is the absence of hope. >> david, good to see you again. thank you and thank you for all the work you and your organization do. he is the former foreign secretary of the united kingdom and the author of rescue, refugees and the political crisis of our time. coming up, old guard republicans are trying to convince us that their party isn't dead, it just needs to be saved. where there is a will, there's a way. i guess the question is, is there a will? i will explore ahead on "velshi".

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now liz cheney remains a conservative, but she fully remains -- fully believes that her former cherished republican party is dead. >> the republican party itself is so caught up in this cold of personality that it is very hard to imagine that the party can survive. i think increasingly it is clear that once we get through 2024 we have to have something else. something new. i believe the country has to have a party based on conservative principles and values where we can engage with the democrats on substance and on policy. >> but there is one group of former republican lawmakers who refuse to accept that the traditional brand of republicanism is over, it simply needs a comeback. former republican senators are launching a new organization called our republican legacy to

help facilitate the return of traditional republican values and policies. they say that rather than leaving the party, they are creating the group to be a catalyst for the movement to reassert traditional republicanism against the populist version it has become under donald trump, end quote. the former senators say their group will not be a lobbying organization or a political action committee. it will not tell people how to vote in 2024 or beyond. it will be a digital rallying place for all of those currently dispirited about the state of our party and see nowhere to go with their beliefs. it will be an information hub, a center of news and commentary and ideas about strategies and tactics, end quote. our republican legacy is built on five principles the group sees as core pillars of traditional republicanism. the constitution, union, fiscal responsibility, free enterprise and peace through strength.

the goal of this comeback mission is to get the republican party back on track or as these guys say, out of the, quote, populist ditch. the messages that the gop is not dead, but real republicans must choose to save it. on the other side of the break i will be speaking to key figures in this movement, former senator john danforth -- is some freakin' torque. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. (♪♪) (♪♪) bounce back fast from heartburn

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joining me now is john danforth, former republican senator from the state of missouri and cocreator of our republican legacy and charlie dent, former republican congressman from pennsylvania and now a senior advisor. thank you for being here this morning. senator, good to see you after a very long time and welcome to "velshi". you and your co-creators have made it clear that you are not trying to tell people how to vote, but you also make it clear that you think donald trump has wrecked your party. tell me the distinction. when i tell people don't vote for donald trump while we fix our party? >> we would not presume to do that and we assume a lot of people who think the way we do will vote one way or another in the presidential election or any other election. what we want to do is set up the clear contrast between the traditional republican party,

the party that charlie dent and i and others knew and what has happened just in the last seven years, when we have turned away from being a conservative party to being the right wing, populist party. and really never the two shall meet. so the american people, the republicans, will have to make the choice. are we the party of reagan or are we the party of trump? we cannot be both. >> charlie, you know i've said many times on the show that i think it is unhealthy to have one functioning political party in the country no matter where you stand on the political spectrum. you are part of this effort as an advisor and in the op-ed it says that while our republican legacy will not tell people how to vote, it will instead offer a framework for thinking about the decision and helping secure america's future beyond 2024, no matter what happens on election day. is the start of this republican

comeback that you are not just hoping for, but working toward now, supposed to happen before or after election day and what are the consequences of it being before or after election day? >> clearly we want this to begin before election day, but we plan to carry it on after election day. nikki haley has been getting somewhere around 20% of the vote and is not even a candidate at this point. it is clear, there are millions of disillusioned republicans who have been yearning for an alternative narrative. they have not gotten that. too many officials have been too quiet. silence is not an alternative and what we are doing here, we provide that alternative based on the principles you outline. these are principles we think that contradicts a lot of the maga agenda and there are also

republicans, many of whom are voting for donald trump right now, holding their nose doing so, who want an alternative. that is why we are advancing principles of fiscal responsibility, the constitution, the union, keeping the country together. free markets. we are against tariffs and price controls. we embrace allies and push back against vladimir putin. we want to provide that space. we have been too quiet, for too long. >> senator, history has shown that this is how movement start. they move out. in your opinion, what does success look like in the short term, before the election, the medium term after the election and the long term, at which point there is a functioning republican party of which members can be proud? >> well the republican party

has been in business for 170 years. the maga movement has been in business for seven years. we want to restore the traditional republican party. the sooner the better. we know it is not going to happen overnight. we know that right now the maga group really is in control of our party, but as charlie said, something like 20%, 22% in indiana of republican voters showed up in the primary to vote for somebody who is no longer a candidate. that was nikki haley. so a lot of republicans are dispirited. first is to breathe new life in and provide pushback. the second and more enduring one is to reestablish the old republican party. the five principles that we

have were universally embraced by every single republican until very recently. now all five of them have been thrown overboard. let me give you one example. ronald reagan would be rolling over in his grave if he knew that a presidential candidate for the republican party was proposing an across-the-board tariff increase of 10%. one time he said 15%. i don't know what it is. but you are talking about a trade war. talking about massive governmental intervention in the economy. if you are concerned about the cost of living today, just wait until there is a huge, 10 or 15% tariff increase. these are fundamental principles that the republican party, as it has always existed for this blip that has now occurred. we believe that this, too,

shall pass. we believe the enduring principles of our party are too important, too central to america, to just fade away. >> so charlie, here's the problem. you and i talk a lot about the fact that policy of any sort is hardly discussed in congress, particularly in the republican caucus. they are consumed about a lot of things that don't have anything to do with the priorities that our republican legacy has laid out. and in part that is because of our remarkable primary process now in which most candidates running for office are substantially more concerned with their primary than they are the general election. that means the moderate conversation disappears, because you are not building the conversation to defeat your democrat or republican opponent. you are arguing to defeat the person in your party who is in

the primary with you. how do you get where you want to be given how the system is today? >> it seems to me we need to elevate the entire conversation in this country when it comes to public policy. you had liz cheney on. basically talking about how we need to restore basic principles of the party. i think she is absolutely right. if we don't get back to this discussion. look what happened in the committee yesterday in congress with the shouting match between marjorie taylor greene and others. it was terrible. we need to elevate this away from one deeply flawed individual to these enduring policies and principles that have sustained the party for 170 years. theodore roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, et cetera. we need to elevate this conversation and get back to something that is enduring. these maga roots are very shallow, as senator danforth said.

7 to 10 years they've been around and they don't have a policy agenda that is coherent or frankly one that advances america's national interests as they should, so we will start here and again, this is how movements begin. we have to start with this conversation. there are plenty of people who agree with us. it will be good for the republican party and very good for america, so that is why we are doing this. >> so, senator, there has been a dearth of policy matters in the republican party including in terms of policy platforms and clarity around what policy looks like. some of that has been cleaned up by this project 2025 that the heritage foundation and others have put out. it is not what i would imagine that you and charlie would think of as a republican platform. an platform.

things like project 2025?