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ari melber is here now. >> what a season of gratitude. get some rest because we'll be seeing a lot of you and everyone soon. >> have a good show. >> thanks, niccole. >> welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber, and with all the trial news, and more that have late they are house, the top story is political news that will help decide the election because it usually does. today president biden and donald trump both agreed to do two new presidential debates, the first coming next month capping weeks of posturing and negotiation that. breakthrough came today as the biden campaign took control of things with a plan that was months in the making, biden using this video here to publicly challenge trump to two debates on the biden schedule with two ready partners on board, abc and cnn. if a debate starting next month sounds different than usual, earlier than usual, it is. this will now be the earliest general election campaign debate ever, and that actually matters

not only for people tuning in and paying attention, but also for the political strategy at play which we're going to get into right now. "the times" reporting this is what biden wants for a couple of reasons. democrats think early voting helps them more than the other side. i can't tell you about the future, you about i can tell you the reporting suggesting this was a strategic move for biden because they think that will be true again this year, and they definitely dominated in early voting in 2020 when they defeated and ousted then president trump. they also know that the highly watched debates tend to mobilized people. just about everybody knows that, and democrats are thinking that jump starting the general election season early will be good for biden. they hope it will benefit them because instead of this abstract discussion about joe biden which as you know includes talk about his age or how he looks or how he sounds, which is kind of an incumbent-focused view, "the times" and other outlets and other reporting suggesting that they think the side-by-side, his age to trump's age, his trump's

trial and biden's presidency hasn't kicked in for people outside of news junkies that will help them. i'll tell you something else, this news that came out today after biden dropped the video, it opens an interesting window if you follow politics. it suggests how joe biden is the oldest president ever, a numerical fact and running against one of the challengers ever, donald trump, they are both older, but it shows how biden is actually still very open to brand-new strategies even that break tradition. a unidebate means trump will also be on face to face a verdict and a debate in the same month, and that could make for some unusual news cycles, to say the least. it could push against trump or for him if he does come off new york prosecutors failing to convict him. so there is a lot to think through here. but when you take 2020, the

history, what we've learned, remember, those were debates where joe biden and trump clashed a lot but people really got a close-up of the comparison and that's what led to biden beating an incumbent president which is never easy to do. let's take a look at 2020. >> we handed him a booming economy. he blew it. it wasn't -- >> blew it? it wasn't -- >> joe, i ran because of you. i ran because of barack obama, because you did a poor job. >> anyone who is responsible for that many deaths, should not remain as president of the united states of america. >> we can't lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. >> one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. >> i am the least racist person in this room. >> i'm not going to answer the question. >> why won't you answer that question? >> will you shut up, man. >> then president trump did not exactly shut up, man, but that moment encapsulated something then. remember it, worked for biden

then, it also shows why there is such wrangling over these debates, because they have new results that the biden campaign has basically apparently been victorious on that will limit both the crowd and the interruption aspects which donald trump used not so much to win the debate on its own terms but to kind of hijack it or short-circuit it. again, that's just an observation. if you're a super trump fan, you might say, great. they didn't like the debates anyway and he knows how to disrupt them, so to speak. if you were a biden fan or someone to trying actually listen to both side you might think, gosh, this got really out of control, so they have broken with tradition to address some of that. some more facts for you tonight. the debates will be in atlanta, the end of june and then in september. that first debate will not have a studio audience. again, that's part of what i'm emphasizing to you. the rules and format matters a lot. the biden campaign took the lead here, engineered this to some degree and got trump on board, two people to debate but without

the fans he loves to appeal to in the room. that's a biden demand. this also bypasses the bipartisan commission that has organized these debates for many, many decades. it ends that tradition, and as with our washington traditions there are people who are invested in them because they benefit from them and are a part of this and say we can't change this and there are people who say this is new, it's a risk, to do this without the commission and its sort of structural, historical advantages, but clearly the biden campaign thinks this is the better way to go and the reporting is, they talked to the commission about doing other things and they found what was an unwilling collaborative partner, and just as we've seen this partner deal with other institutions. they have had a running back and forth with the "new york times," a running back and forth with the commission. there are a lot of people around biden who are clearly trying to send a message to the washington powers at be, they don't need you. they don't need you like they used to, and they will cut you out if they have to.

as for what trump is up to, remember. if you are up traditionally and you don't care what anyone thinks you avoid debates. that is what some incumbents in certain races have done. there's a presidential debate tradition, but in senate races around the country this is done ad hoc. if you're up ten points and you're the incumbent, you usually skip debates. that's kind of politics 101. donald trump was a former president running in his primary, and he knew he didn't have debates. they had to downside it. it was recent. we lived through it. trump didn't do any debates against the republican rivals in the primaries. the broader context here is a matchup that has problems for both sides. again, when you're the incumbent president, you get a lot of coverage, criticism and youth any and that's how it dud be, but for all of the discussion of joe biden and the economy and the middle east and the international problems and a lot of valid criticisms and concerns about him and his ten tour, the politics of of this are he doesn't want to be just be assessed only on his own record all year when the question is

always in life and in politics is compared to what? and the truth is, i just mentioned some of the factors of why there isn't great enthusiasm for joe biden. he doesn't have 60% approval ratings, but there actually isn't much enthusiasm for either of these candidates, both of whom who have been in the white house and both well known by voters. we have seen for many months most americans actually don't want this rematch at all. and trump, who how now been running unopposed since he became the presumptive nominee of his party, is still losing, among people who show up in republican primaries, some open, some close. you can see the numbers since haley dropped out and since he was presumptive, it's not 5%, 6%, 7%, it's double digits in big red states like west virginia, that are big red like mostly republican and key swing states in pennsylvania at 17%. arizona, another swing state, 20%. those are people showing up to republican primaries and choosing something other than

trump. i can tell you right now if he only gets 80% of those kind of republican votes in the general, he will lose. but there's a long way to involve. a significant share of republicans though basically are still trying to figure out whether this is what they want to go with. remember, i've said this before, but it's true. if you're saying, okay, ari. don't people know these are the only choices in the major parties. don't people know this is what we're dealing with. short answer is no. not everyone follows closely and not everyone remembers when nikki haley dropped out or how we're counting down in the newsroom like we are. republicans say the newspaper you see on your screen will go down, that the anti-trump vote will go away, that they will come home, but the biden side of this, the reason they want the early debates they think honestly lackluster numbers will go up when compared to trump, compared to the guy on trial. compared to the guy if you

follow the news that is saying things more autocratic and blatantly dictatorial than anything he said leading up to january 6 which is really saying something. the current president, meanwhile, has been making his regular appearances at campaign and government events while trump has been in court every day. governor romney was asked about this today. i told you that it broke today. here's what he said about how it will go. >> the image that comes to mind is the two old men on "the muppets. >> statler and waldorf. >> that's what comes to mind, but i think there will be a huge audience for these debates. >> as the old saying goes. waca, waca, waca. we do know the old muppets. shout-out to them. we do know the old candidates. shout-out to them. nothing wrong with being old. usually just means you're alive and have experience, and if there is going to be a giant

voting bloc that only wants candidates under 40 for president they will be disappointed. these are the current choices of the two parties. we live in a two-party system. if you watch this program we've covered problems with the two-party system and why there should be more choices and a different system and had candidates on from third and other parties, but none of them so far this year in the numbers have demonstrated anything like a perot level factor, and he didn't ultimately win either. these could be the two choices. again, the news tonight when it comes to the debate, the muppets had a large audience, and the debates tend to have an even larger one. in our balkanized polarized era when people go to the different concerns of the internet and watch different tv channels, true up to a point, there are certain big events in sports and politics that do bring the whole country back together, maybe not agreeing together, but watching something together. they used to call it the monoculture when everybody actually listens to the same

beatles albums so when you talk about it, you're discussing the same album rather than one version's quanon lie. the first debate, that's what it was like. 73 million people watched that debate itself, plus tens of millions more watching clips. that meant that 100 million plus people in a short amount of time could actually discuss the same set of facts. imagine that, america. almost downright old fashioned in a good way. so why did the biden campaign make this move? why did they make it now? why are they up strategically even as some say they are lagging in some of the key states? we have two absolute political pros with us, mark mckinnon and joe trip, and we're back in just 90 seconds, no cap. d we 're backt 90 seconds, no cap ou have chronic kidney disease, there are places you'd like to be. like here.

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donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. since then he hasn't shown up for a debate. now he's acting like he wants to debate again. well, make my day, pal. i'll even do it twice. so let's pick the dates, donald. i hear you're free on wednesdays. >> free on wednesdays. that is the one day when donald trump's criminal trial is not in session. free on wednesdays is the new trial burn. of course, it only works if you're running against someone who is facing criminal trial no. other presidential candidate has ever done this, run during a trial. now, we have with us as mentioned two pros in this whole

landscape of presidential politics and debates. joe trippi, democratic strategist, senior adviser lincoln project and worked on many campaigns, including the dean campaign and marc mckin owen, adviser to george w. bush and co-creator of "the circus" and try to be fair with trump officials on this week and boyden firnlgts but i have to say mark has a better hat on than you. >> he does, and i would agree with that. >> mark, this both matters for the reasons i said. it's one of the only times where the whole country sees the same thing in politics. how rare is that? it did help biden last time. no idea who it will help this time, so speak to us both about that aspect, that almost old-fashioned idea of us experiencing something together and the pure politics of it. the biden folks obviously thought even before the trial outcome is clear that they needed to do something, and these how they want to shake it up. >> i think this is the smartest thing that biden's campaign has

done yet, but strategically, tactically, on every level. it was not sustainable the notion that biden could go the whole campaign and not debate ultimately, he would have to. you can't run for president and not debate. it shows weakness and all kinds of problems. what would have happened it would have been months and months of stories of biden dodging the debate, trying to get out of it, and -- and by doing this, he puts it on his terms. it looks -- it -- it -- it communicates enormous confidence and enormous strength. by the way, as joe knows, the most important asset can you have as a candidate for president is the perception of strength, and if you're not debating it shows weakness. if you're the one that throws down the gauntlet, that shows strength, and i love that it -- you know, it clearly caught the trump campaign off guard by doing this. he does it on his terms. he bypasses the commission and keeps rfk out of the debate, does it on his terms. does it without an audience. just on every level this is a

master stroke of strategy for the campaign. >> do you think they were worried that rfk might meet the commission threshold and go to the perot threshold. we had rfk on the show recently. he was very bullish on his own chances. his polling hasn't been as good as it is in his mind, but do you think that was a factor? >> absolutely. i mean, there's no question that the debates are the most important time during the presidential campaign. you know, as you said, there's 75 million people that watched that last one. i think this one will blot numbers out of the water, 100 million plus. an opportunity for someone like rfk to get huge exposure and now he won't get it. the biden campaign traffic is suffocate rfk an deny him oxygen. >> joe? >> that's right. mark, this was brilliant, really smart strategy for the biden campaign. it does show strength. it also boxed trump in. i'll debate you anytime,

anywhere, anyplace. they had him. how could he say no to two debates wherever biden wanted to have them and under whatever rules biden wanted with no audience in the first one at least, so i think that -- the second thing, is look, i don't know whether rfk would have call 2350id or not, mostly because forget about the percentage that you need to get to. i'm not sure he's going to be on enough ballots -- he'll be on plenty of ballot, but i'm not sure enough to win 270 electoral votes. >> i asked him about that. >> when he was on here. he was on about four states. he said they could get to ten immediately, had a strategy, but they weren't at 30 or 40 in the last month, yeah. >> yeah, so i think -- lock, i still think this was about making it a binary race immediately as soon as possible. whether that -- how much that impacted, rfk impacted the

decision, biden -- the biden campaign knows that they benefit from making this trump versus biden and that contrast that you talked about, ari, that has always -- through 2020, 2022 and -- and i think in 2024, that contrast has benefited biden and democrats. i mean, the contrast between trump and maga and -- and biden and democrats has benefited biden, and those -- the debate in 2020, the first one in particular, i was looking at focus groups back then, and the number of women -- i mean, undecided women, republican-leaning women, who were -- who were disappointed in trump because of his abrasiveness, the way he carried himself and were mildly surprised, positively about biden, was remarkable. i mean, i really do think the debates really helped shape that contrast. >> let me play some of that,

because, mark, i mentioned this in our setup and i really mean it. you go on the internet which is a wonderful place to connect and learn things. when i was growing up, we didn't have total internet saturation, and now can you learn something about a village in africa that you never know. it's amazing, and yet it's also just this endless pile of ignorant hate, including a large parts of the internet, mark, i feel are like a book club where no one has read the book. so we're not discussing the book, but everyone is yelling about the book they haven't read and then you realize very quickly, well, what are we even discussing, so with donald trump and joe biden, you could go out to people who don't follow it as closely as you two and our audience and they will say something on biden based on a four or six-second snippet that may or may not have been accurately edited. they have this view of him. it's my job to talk and listen to him. people will say, i mean, can he even walk? that's their perception. yes, he can, and it's a hard

grueling job. he's been traveling all over the country while trump has been in new york at times with his eyes closed. i think it's fair to say both men are older than the usual candidates. i was with trump this week. he also can walk. neither of them look like they cannot move around and do the things they do, but in the side-by-side it seemed to hurt trump last time. take a look. >> under this president, we've become weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided and more violent. >> he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't because he'll lose his radical left supporters. >> he has an answer -- he said maybe you should drop a nuclear weapon on them. >> i never said that. you made it up. >> mark? >> well, that's a really good example what have can happen in this next debate. the big question for joe biden is he up to the job? and fairly or unfairly, his age comes up, and how competent is he? physically, mentally, how

capable is he? he'll have the opportunity to show that on the stage with the other guy who is also old, and the -- i just -- i think this could be the most consequential debate in american history. >> really? >> absolutely, and there's so many questions about both of them at this point and age and acute is a very real question. and this will be an opportunity to get up there without a net, without notes, without advisers and show whether or not you've up for the job and whether or not you have the strength and capability to stand on that stage. i think it's going to be -- it's going to be game, set, match in these debates. >> joe, we've got 30 second. mark got in the two different -- >> that's what i think. >> he good in two different tennis references. you can do some or no sports references, but you get 30 seconds. >> i think biden is going to clean his clock because trump has set up these such low expectations -- he's out there every day saying the guy can't walk, he can't talk and can't do

anything. he's senile, and trump can't change his tube. i mean, the same thing -- these groups that biden has to win back, the haley voters. how the hell in this debate going to say anything that's going to attract those people to them? in fact, by banging the maga base he'll push them further away and biden will be sitting there being much stronger than trump has made him out to be, and that's why i think whether -- there won't be a pass. he's going to knock trump out i think. >> our producelers put up the muppets one more time. i showed this earlier because mitt romney made this comparison, and i just hope to say i hope to have both of you back on this program for so many healthy years to come that you get to your own muppet territory. neither of you are quite that old in the box yet. is that fair? >> yes, i -- i aspire to be a muppet. >> yeah, and lord knows i'll try.

>> and we are going off the romney reference for folks watching on the screen. for mitt romney it was then candidate trump of accusing hillary clinton of being a puppet in '16 so there's a long kind of debate mood of muppets and puppets and there we are for those are long memories. good to see you guys. >> thanks, ari. >> appreciate it the. we led with this big debate news. mark mckinnon said it could be the biggest debate in american history and we'll come back with a fact check on one of trump's biggest claims. and a breakdown tonight on something that's been debated everywhere, how michael cohen's testimony said balances with his own record. that is the issue that could decide that case. back with more on that. back with more on that ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪

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there was notifications that came within the trump organization about her. she was going to go public with the information. >> michael cohen telling his store they in an interview on this program. now he's been tested in a different way under oath. back on the witness stand and under cross-examination from trump's lawyers and already making big headlines from his first two days testifying. >> michael cohen has testified that he is a liar, admitting he lied to congress, to the government, to the public. >> one of the most impressive things about the last two days is it does appear that cohen may have committed perjury again. >> they were suggesting that michael cohen was obsessed with donald trump, that he was left behind and has since been on a revenge tour. >> toe every witness, basically, you know, tarred and feathered, michael cohen. >> donald trump's's attorney attempted to shred the credibility of the prosecutor's star witness. >> juries are smart. they get it. it's a lot of common sense. i just don't see how they can

give his testimony the -- say it has the ring of truth. >> you notice the theme here, while michael cohen is the fact that he's a central witness the fact that he's so central is creating a problem. if this case in the jury's mind rises and falls with some of the key claims that cohen and only cohen has made to corner donald trump, well, the case could fall apart if there's reasonable doubt raised through the cross examination that continues. what we know is the lawyers on trump's side say thursday they expect to spend most of the day going back at cohen. "the times" reports that at certain intervals, trump's attorney seemed to struggle the gotcha moment while grilling cohen about diss interactions, cohen rarely strayed off topic and trump's lawyer used his time to attack his credibility, something that the trump lawyers hopes will leaped to the jury doubting his testimony.

there's a problem looking at this the only through the lens of whether there was a knockout would blow or how composed cohen was. many of us, you and i if you've been following the case with us, have absorbed michael cohen as a person, as a speaker and his story. the jury has been hearing about him, and they have heard as one of our witnesses, one of our experts said that, he's been tarred and feathered, even pre-butted. they have been warned about him, but what will happen yesterday and will continue tomorrow could be pivotal in this case and could help defendant trump. do they, the jury, learn enough information about cohen that they start thinking a little less about all the receipts against trump and a little more about this particular character and whether they believe his current version of events beyond a reasonable doubt? >> we're joined by former sdny prosecutor and analyst christ even greenberg. >> how are you? >> i'm great. >> nice to be here.

thanks for running around with us. we've heard the version that the "new york times" said and a version that i would say is more common among frankly non-lawyers which is at times yesterday's cross was halting, was meandering, was even at times boring, and yet you and i were just discussing in commercial break so why not share with everyone that you did notice some punches were landed. what do you mean by that? >> well, look, he had a line of argument where he talked about the fact that there were requests from the prosecutors and requests from cohen's own lawyer to stop talking about the case, right? and, of course, he's ignored them, and so their argument during closing is going to be, look. the prosecutors at that table cannot control this guy. his own lawyer can't control this guy. he went rogue, right? like that's the argument they are going to make. did they land it as solidly a punch on that as they could have, no, but they made the point and they are going to use it on closing. i thought other parts really fell flat like the whole michael

cohen is obsessed with donald trump. well, i don't know, isn't the whole gop kind of obsessed with donald trump. that argument they should have left to the mariah carey dis song of emmember, "why are you so obsessed with me?" >> or the eminem song "stand." someone who was a fan and when rejected they turned negative. >> right. so, i don't know, you've seen the parade of people from the gop in the courtroom, outside the courtroom. i just -- you know, again, i -- i don't think that landed so well. i think starting out with making it about todd and saying you called plea this name. like who cares. i think the line of cross about like monetization, oh, he's just trying to monetize his connection to donald trump. well, we've heard how much donald trump cares about money, so, again, like he's monetizing things on his own, so i didn't think he landed solid punches, but he set up enough lines of

cross that he can then go back to those arguments on closing. >> yeah, and the jury has heard the d.a.'s side and trump's lawyer side describe michael cohen as a past liar, so that's undisputed. >> yeah. >> did mr. blanche avoid anything to show that he could be a current liar. >> not yet. >> that's tomorrow. tomorrow -- my prediction is todd blanche is going to do a lot better tomorrow. i think he held back some of the ammunition that he had, and he's really looking to unleash that tomorrow, so there are a few areas where i think this is going to come up first and foremost. michael cohen said that under oath yesterday that he never wanted to be donald trump's chief of staff. there's ample evidence that he did, not just in television interviews which i expect todd blanche will show him and confront him with, but in private messageses that sdny laid out in their papers, private messages to multiple people about how much he want that had job, how disappointed he was when he didn't get that job and all the things he tried to do to get in a job.

expect that to come out. >> so you're saying thursday will be blanche's chance to say you lied on tuesday. >> correct. >> and if you did lie on tuesday about something that we all remember, you wanted the white house job, it's not like where did i eat dinar year ago, that's the thing that he wanted from the guy that he has this intense psychodrama, and you're saying the jury is going to get the message if you lied on tuesday about that, how can we believe you about other things? >> yes, exactly. that, plus motive, right? like this is what he was upset b.this would have given him a motorive to change the story. the other area is his past crimes, right? he said on the stand yesterday, well, i never disputed the fact that i committed tax crimes. i've never disputed that fact. >> right. >> which is what he pled guilty to. but he has dispute that had fact. he wrote a book called "revenge" her he said the tax crimes are 100% inaccurate and he got up on the stand at the civil fraud trial and said i didn't commit the tax evasion crime, and when

i told the judge in the guilty plea that i did, i was lying, so just keeping score, guilty plea he says i evaded taxes, civil fraud trial, i didn't evade taxes and i lied in that plea and now it's i never dispute that had i did it. i did evade the taxes but the prosecutors were out to get me. >> yeah. >> which i sympathy a very strained argument. >> yeah. >> and, again, we're not judging him writ large. we're discussing what the jury is learning about him as one of the final -- if not the final chapter here before closing arguments. thank you. when we come back, democrats see speaker johnson's visit to criminal trial as a chance to attack. s visit to criminal trial as a chance to attack a subway series footlong. except when you add on an all new footlong sidekick. we're talking a $2 footlong churro. $3 footlong pretzel and a five dollar footlong cookie. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. order one with your favorite subway series sub today. so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking...

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the speaker of the house mike johnson took time away from his job governing the nation to fly to new york to make a fundamentally political appearance at the trial of donald trump. he showed up. he echoed the maga attacks that donald trump wants and democrats in congress are responding. remember, they are the ones who helped johnson keep his job when he was facing a right wing challenge, and they say that could be a one-time only get out of jail free card. with the court stunt viewed as an unprecedented and shocking action that shows how low we've sunk, say some democrats, and that he could pay a price if they need him again.

>> it's disappointing. it's just odd. just never fails to amaze us, you know, the depths at which they will go in order to bend a knee to the former president. >> speaker johnson has changed his tune on trump himself and the insurrection of january 6. he also led this congressional effort to overturn presidential results and to use lawsuits as kind of a cover for the coup plot that failed. remember, they didn't just want to storm the capitol with maga fans. that doesn't do much. it was a big deal, but it doesn't reverse the election. they wanted to use all of those things together and his lawsuits to try to get members of the house to actually change the outcome of the election. remember, johnson is second in line to the presidency as he walks this line. when we come back, we have a fact check on a big trump claim. stay with us. n a big trump clai. stay with us

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[music playing] they are trying to rig the vote. they rigged the whole thing with the department of justice. >> this all comes out of the white house and crooked joe biden. it's an attack on his political opponent. the trial is a very unfair trial. >> defendant trump there speaking out with attacks on the doj and other prosecutors, and this is something that has ricochetted all around the country as he faces a criminal trial in state court, one of four trials, with 80 plus felony counts. some have been delayed, but you probably heard about this from somebody, and it is the main

talking point on maga media, the claims that this isn't about what trump did leading to so much evidence that he became the first ever former president indicted, but rather it's something special about a conspiracy aligned against him. let's take a look at what trump just mentioned briefly. what he calls biden's doj, which is a justice department run by an attorney general selected by the president as is normal, and it's a place where it turns out if you look at this, the charges do not fall on any particular political lines. there's an example in the news right now, a case we've been covering and will continue to cover. the corruption trial of the democratic senator, bob menendez. that trial beginning officially today. the jury has been sat. the doj says he took bribes in not only cash and a luxury vehicle but even the old school and seemingly incriminating choice to take gold bars and keep him -- keep them, i should say, in his home, according to the indictment.

opening statements are beginning there. menendez pleads not guilty, and as i say about trump and other defendants, he's presumed innocent, but this is the second case and there's strong evidence. the doj also went forward in what would be touchy in any administration but they faced evidence that they said meant using the special counsel process investigating the president's son. that trial begins next month in june on a gun charge. so, it doesn't mean anyone is guilty or innocent, but if there is a claim that the doj has its thumb on the scale in terms of prominent members of the political parties, well, that claim like so many others that trump has vaunted out there to try to defend himself or confuse people during his trial, turns out fact check false. i've got to fit in a break but we'll have a very special conversation coming up next. ve conversation coming up next. fred! how are you?!

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her uncle's unhappy. matchin i'm sensing anription. underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

don't think we forgot. it's been busy times, but when we have time in the news cycle, we will still fall back. ♪♪ and today we have two very special guests, barren davis is a renaissance man for these modern times. you might know him from the nba, two-time all star. but now, like many of his peers, he is showing that he is a champion in so many other ways, media, entertainment and business. >> davis to camp bell. >> barren davis has just thrown it in 92 feet away. >> explosiveness of barren davis. >> dunking on a big dog like what's up, now what? >> i'm going to sit back and recline. >> also open up -- oh, man! >> hello. >> don't play with him. he's also known, of course, for tnt basketball commentaries and entrepreneur, founder of business inside the game which helps athletes who are trying to

get into entrepreneurship which is so important when you think about a long life and career. making his "beat" debut along with a regular. you can see him here with bill clinton, doing the thing, doing the work, talking to the people. welcome to both of you. how are you doing? >> good. >> shea, how are you doing? >> i'm good. >> good co-guest situation for you here. >> i know. i'm really intimidated. it's quite an honor to have an nba star. >> you can tell who is the athlete on set. it's not shea or i. good to see you. >> thank you, man. >> we'll let chase start. >> people not going to the movies need to fall back. people staying home and not going to the movies, that needs to fall back. i'm talking specifically about the failure of the "fall guy" this weekend at the box office. opened to very low expectations. a movie, original story, got roman, it's got comedy, it's got

action, human beings doing actual stunts. doesn't have superheroes, cgi monsters, cartoons for the kids. it doesn't have those things, as a result people don't go to the movie theaters to see a movie like that. i'll wait for it to come on netflix or streaming. >> you think good movies that we share is more than just being entertained or passing two hours. it's the stories that organize our lives, our culture, justice and if we miss out on that, we end up with what? >> a culture that's very disposable, that we don't have common touch points to discuss things with people. everybody talks about, you know, the great scenes from "the god father" or scenes from an action movie like "die hard" they create a common culture. >> or "white man can't jump" or "above the rim". >> a few miles away from here in venice was shot. >> respect. >> so, you know, those sorts of things provide a touch stone and culture and not having that, having a culture where we have

so many streaming sites and so many movies across so many platforms, you know, we are losing something. >> what do you think? >> i think the system. you know, i think it's the system. i think it's more so, you know, people can't relate to the movies that's coming out. and i think hollywood is chasing trends and trends are dying off in three to six months. where we used to look at hollywood and look at film makers and actors and actresses and say, okay, what does the future look like, right? how are they capturing the moment? and i think a lot of these movies people are trying to figure out how can they get as many social media impressions to get kids to come to the theater or kid families to come to the theater instead of making the movie that people want to see. >> baron, first time on "the beat." welcome, what's on your fallback list? >> my fallback list is governor

kathy out of new york. >> sure. >> she made the statement that kids don't know what a computer is. >> yeah. >> black kids she said. >> black kids, yes. and so, i want her to fall back but i want her to fall forward and lean in. >> a little different, all right. >> because you know, i think some things can be taken out of context. i think her intentions were right. but what she said was wrong. and that's because she's not a part of the culture. >> yeah. >> right. if you are saying these things and it's a part of your political campaign and political speech, are you actually in the schools and, you know, your stf government in the schools working and learning and understanding because these kids are so much smarter than we can ever imagine. >> and she's a democrat. and there are certain democratic politicians who sometimes seem to reference or address the black community --

>> never been. >> as if they're not in touch. and then they end up -- oh, i meant. i tried to mean in a good way or meant that like i'm connecting. i guess you're saying maybe they're not listening and doing the ground work to know how to have a productive conversation. >> well, i mean, you can't be in touch when you're saying black kids don't know what a computer is. you know what i mean? when they have cell phones and ai and roblox and building things and creating their own youtube channels and merch. it's more so they don't have access. they don't have access to the information, right? they don't have access to the necessary tools. and there's not big corporations coming into the black community giving that access. >> yeah. >> but they know what a computer is. >> right. so chai, you didn't work for her but you worked for many democrats. >> right. >> both substantively and politically, how does an aide look at that moment? >> they need to be more out in the community, walking the streets talking to voters. that's something you don't get

in these big states, new york, california, florida, texas. you saw it with ron desantis when he walked into a diner how awkward he was. you know? if you belong to these big starts you don't do the retail politics. that's so important. obama was a community organizer. joe biden took amtrak literally everyday back and forth. >> right. >> they did things where they talked to normal people, regular people and they themselves were normal regular people and understood how to communicate. >> in conclusion, i'm glad that you two linked. you see chai, pretty sharp guy. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> glad to have you on chai, always good to see you. >> two sharp guys. we appreciate them joining a special edition of fallback. connect with me. arimelber.com and keep it locked for "the reidout" next. ed for "the reidout" next ♪♪ tonight on