their assets confiscated in cuba. the psychiatrist is going to say that traumatized the senator and made him want to grab some cash. so that testimony is not going to come in. it remains to be seen exactly what his defense is, but this is a very significant corruption case. the second indictment for the senator, as you remember the first one ended in a hung jury. >> ken dilanian all over that case. so another trial, another trial in new york city, ken, thanks so much. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us on social media @mitchellreports. just go to msnbc.com/andrea. i'll be back in new york tomorrow for the resumption of the trump trial. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. this could be epic, biden versus

trump, the presidential candidates now agreeing to meet on a debate stage next month. they don't like each other, they don't respect each other, and the last time around it was a brawl. the move sends a bolt of lightning into a campaign that's been centered on a new york city courtroom. how the big change both sides agree to will make this debate sound and feel completely different from 2020. plus, while trump's trial is dark, senator bob menendez's corruption trial is just getting going. opening statements expected to start in the next hour. the new jersey democrat accused of accepting a car, cash, even gold bars in exchange for official acts. we'll get the very latest from the courtroom in just a minute. and unicef just issuing a critical new warning about the children stuck in rafah, even as benjamin netanyahu says he's not backing down from a potential invasion. a unicef spokesperson who just left rafah will join us to talk about what needs to be done.

an awful lot to get to on this wednesday, but first the countdown is on, more than 1,300 days after they last squared off on a debate stage, president biden and donald trump are set to do it again. all the details aren't finalized, and of course this thing could always fall apart, but as of now, the two campaigns have committed to debating on june 27th, just hours after biden taunted trump with this challenge. >> donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. since then he hasn't shown up for a debate. now he's acting like he wants to debate me again. make my day, pal. i'll even do it twice. so let's pick the dates donald. i hear you're free on wednesdays. >> his campaign has even started selling t-shirts saying free on wednesdays, a not so subtle reference to the day trump's criminal trial is off. all of that met with an equally biting response from donald trump telling fox, i'm ready to go. the dates that they proposed are fine.

let's see if joe can make it to the standup podium. i want to bring in eugene daniels, co-author of the political playbook, as well as an msnbc political contributor. matt dowd is msnbc political contributor and vaughn hillyard joins me in studio. i'm going to start with something brand new. stephanie ruhle sat down with mitt romney who knows about presidential debates, and she asked him about it. let's just take a listen. i won't try to describe it, let him do it. >> there's talk today about a presidential debate maybe as early as june. i know debates were important to you. they certainly got you a lot of momentum in 2012. do you think they matter today? in many ways we know a lot about the two people running. do you think it will impact votes, maybe even your vote? >> well, the image that comes to mind is those two old guys on the muppet. >> statler and waldorf. >> that's what comes to mind.

i think there will be a huge audience for these be debates. i think they have low expectations about what president biden will do, i think they have higher expectations about president trump and his combativeness. >> what are your expectations? we'll see what happens. i've interacted with president biden and find that we've had good exchanges. he's capable. i like the man. i know president trump, i watch him at his rallies. he seems energetic and forceful, but you know, rallies are kind of easy. you got a cheering crowd and you've got teleprompters you can read. how will they do in person? i don't know the answer to that. i think america will be watching. >> you'll see much more of that on the 11th hour. and our thanks to stephanie for asking the key question as this story was breaking, matthew. is he right? will there be a lot of eyeballs, and do we have any idea how this might turn out? >> the first answer is easy, i think it will be a huge

audience. i mean, i think that since donald trump hasn't debated, he county debate through the whole primary, i think there's a pentup, you know, feeling among his supporters, they really want to see it. it will get that. it will get democrats because obviously the concern of what this election might mean. independents are going to be very concerned because that's ultimately who's going to decide this. who of these two old gentlemen are most capable of being president of the united states, and this auspicious time in this moment. i think it will be a huge audience. i don't know exactly what to expect. i do think the biden folks got a huge concession of no live audience. i think that helps joe biden tremendously, and i think it hurts donald trump equally as much as it helps joe biden. donald trump feeds off the audience and it's going to be a more serious measured debate. there won't be an audience. i think he's going to have to change his manner. can he do that?

but i mean, i'm looking forward to it. i think it will be great. i think we could have the biggest audience ever for the debate. >> literally the biggest audience ever? >> yeah, i do. i think we're in such a momentous moment, and i think there's questions about both of these candidates' capabilities that i think the debate is going to get a big audience and could be much more important, i think it will be much more important than whatever political advertising they spend millions and millions of dollars on. i think the debates could be more determinative than anything else, but of things we don't know. we don't know things that could impact the race, but of things we know, it could be the most important point in the campaign. >> the other thing that mitt romney said, eugene, is that there would probably be low expectations of joe biden. do you agree with that, and how much of an advantage does his campaign see that as being? >> i think mitt romney, the senator's right, but that's largely because donald trump makes -- lowers the bar for joe

biden immediately when he talks about these debates, right? he called him today in one of his truth social posts, the worst debater, the worst person he's ever debated, donald trump said. so like he is himself lowering the expectations for joe biden. he did the exact same thing in 2020 when they debated twice, and also republicans for thes last four years, you know, during the election and during his presidency have called him a dithering old man who doesn't know how to talk. the expectations have been lowered by republicans. you don't see democrats going out of their way to try to raise the expectations because, you know, you never know what happens on a debate stage. i will say the campaign largely feels like, you know, there's a feeling -- they're still not sure that trump is going to debate, right? and that is one of the things that we're trying to do. we're throwing out what they did today, throwing out the gauntlet, one, challenging someone who always tries to challenge at least publicly in

the way that he speaks about it being donald trump, and so if he backs out at some point, they can always say we're the ones who said we wanted to debate. we gave you parameters that you had to agree to, and you pulled out, right? and so there's always that, we don't know if donald trump is going to debate. we learned during the primary he doesn't really need to. the american people deserve to see these two men facing off as they go to vote. but also, you know, people know these two men. they've heard these two men. they've seen them debate before, and to matt's point about the no audience, only one of them has done a no audience debate that we know of, and that's joe biden when he went against bernie sanders right before bernie sanders dropped out in 2020, and so those kinds of things are important in the way that they can prepare, but the biden people are feeling really good, as you can see from their trolling online today. >> which brings us to donald trump and so much to talk about, including the lack of an

audience, you don't have to be a deep political analyst to see how he has always played off of crowds from the very first day he decided to run for president. but it does seem to a lot of folks that he is playing right into joe biden's hands, the more he says this guy can't debate, and by the way, after the first debate last time, it was donald trump's numbers that went down. he's lowering expectations while making it sound like he's the greatest debater ever. so raising expectations for himself. that doesn't seem like the best strategy. >> right in his first social media post of the morning calling joe biden the worst debater ever, and yet, there was expectation setting for joe biden's state of the union address earlier this year in that in the aftermath of that when folks saw that there was an energetic lively joe biden who spoke before congress, donald trump accused him of being on drugs that night. so the reality is that we're 43 days away from this first presidential debate here, and donald trump has done this before with joe biden.

in 2020 he was calling him basement joe, he was too fearful. he was forgetting things. he was sleepy joe. we lived that, and in that first debate, what you saw were two men duking it out. take a listen to it. >> vote now, make sure you in fact let people know. >> he doesn't want to answer the question. >> i'm not going to answer that question. >> the question is -- >> supreme court justice -- radical left. >> will you shut up, man? >> who is on your list, joe? >> gentlemen, i think we have -- >> this is so -- >> one thing to note from this here, by going the commission and working with the commission, you know, that debate aired across 16 different networks, and so now this only airing on cnn, folks are going to have to be in tune and be very intentional about going to cnn for this. they may not be just going to watch survivor and ultimately finding a presidential debate taking place. they're going to have to be very

intentional about finding this. we're 43 days away. >> in the meantime, there was also a little bit of the snideness, if we want to call it that, a little pushing in of the knife and then turning it on this whole wednesday theme by joe biden, matt, you know, now he's putting t-shirts out. for the record, this is going to be on a thursday. are we seeing a different joe biden? >> well, i don't think we're seeing a different joe biden. i think it was smart. they've stayed out of the whole court case. they've let the court case speak for itself against donald trump in the midst of this, and this was kind of funny way to remind folks that donald trump's in court in manhattan against charges against him. i thought it was a very funny way to point out, and the interesting thing to me about the june debate is that it's going to come right in the aftermath of whatever that

decision is of the court. so it's going to be actually the first real opportunity for folks to see what donald trump has to say in the aftermath, right in the aftermath of that court case. i don't actually understand that early of a debate. i kind of don't get how you can have a debate before the nomination -- the nomination committee, both parties picked who their nominee is, we're having a debate before that. as we know, anything could happen, but it will be -- the timing of it will be right in the aftermath of that court trial. >> yeah, and we don't know what the outcome of that is going to be, but it clearly is one of the reasons that the biden campaign wanted to move this up. they didn't want to wait until september. talk to me about how they think june and so i guess a lot of people might think june too early, people going on vacation. kids getting out of school. how do they think this helps them? >> the biggest reason is early voting, right?

so they -- one of the complaints that we've heard from a lot of people but from different over the years, people have started to vote earlier and earlier. you have people going to make a decision possibly without watching the two people who could be the president of the united states to debate on stage. that is something they're trying to do here, right? and that's very clear in picking this june time period, saying, okay, we know -- and kind of accepting the reality of the world as it stands. these men -- there's not the formal nomination process. there are obviously all the things that can happen, but we have been going through the motions of primaries for months now, right? for months now, so i think it's a realization, and an acceptance of like why pretend that these decisions aren't made. i will say, you know, the biggest question is why two instead of three? you know, i -- when you tussle with the biden campaign, i think

that they -- you know, they push back on that, they were a little -- they kind of waved me off and pooh-pooh away, why two instead of three, i think that it matters, right? this is a president who talks about and has shown that he cares about rules, actual written things down but also norms, and the three times that these people come together and debate is for if you miss it the first time, then you get to see it the second time, and if you only saw part of the first one, you can see the rest of the third one and watch how these people change the way that they're speaking. watch and see if you hear anything new as we get close to the election. who knows if these actually happen. trump himself was saying he wants to add. i don't see that happening from the biden point of view. a big change in the way this country does debates. will that continue? the cpd, the folks that put this

on -- >> eugene daniels, vaughn hillyard, matthew dowd, we will be talking a lot about this going forward. thanks, guys. appreciate that. tonight watch more of senator mitt romney's conversation with stephanie ruhle on the 11th hour, coincidentally 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. in our next hour of "chris jansing reports," we'll speak with a senior spokesperson for the biden/harris campaign about what to expect in this debate. but first, in 90 seconds, legal teams on both sides taking a breath ahead of what could be the most important day of former president trump's hush money trial. we'll dig into it next. p's hushy trial. we'll dig toin it next

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the trial and not to be hyperbolic, but the future of the united states could hinge on what happens inside court tomorrow in donald trump's criminal hush money case. like a great finale from a legal drama, everyone is watching whether or not trump's attorney, todd blanche, can poke enough holes in the prosecution's star witness, michael cohen, when he resumes cross examination tomorrow. then there's the wildest of wild cards that's still out there. will trump testify in his own defense? i want to bring in former federal prosecutor renato mar ya tee, with me in studio, danny cevallos. i have so many questions, danny. let me start with the whole goal for the defense, poke holes into michael cohen's credibility and

to his story. there seems to be a general agreement, no big holes were poked, so how do you adjust for tomorrow? >> i think reorganize. when you have a witness like michael cohen when there's so much out there, he's tweeted so much, he's said so much, he's written books about things that you can compare and find and you can mine those for inconsistent statements, it can be overwhelming to prepare a cross examination in this situation. and keep in mind, you're not just writing a script. you're writing a script that for every question the person you're asking is looking to zing you, looking to throw you off, and to some degree michael cohen has done that. i wouldn't say he's been combative, maybe not quite so much like stormy daniels, but he certainly is somewhat unwilling to give a straight yes or no answer. some witnesses are like that. >> is that his biggest weakness right now? >> we're early in the cross examination. i would say that's his weakness right now. the key is will he get fatigued

enough to start getting frustrated. that's what the defense really wants, but so far i would say he's done better, i think, than expected. no one knew which michael cohen would show up. would it be the demure polite michael cohen or the combative michael cohen, and what we've gotten is something in the middle. someone who's willing to say maybe not yes but that sounds right to me when asked a leading question by the defense. so it's a mixed bag. i think the defense has struggled to be organized, which i understand in cross examination, and i think michael cohen has not been as combative as he could be which is good for him, but he is showing signs of being not willing to give the answer that he thinks the defense attorney wants. >> i think renato, yesterday it was in the first couple of minutes that the judge called todd blanche because he immediately brought out some let's say colorful and expletive written comments that cohen had made about him, about blanche and the judge said, you know, basically this isn't about you. don't make this about you.

do you get the sense, though, that maybe that's donald trump pursuing a political strategy in court, maybe at the expense of a good legal one. >> i think that's hitting the nail on the head. i think blanche is actually trying to challenge trump, show to trump, i'm like you, when somebody comes at me i attack them, and cohen attacked me just like he's attacking you, and so i'm going to go after michael cohen. you know, to me that is very bad legal strategy. maybe it's a strategy for getting in donald trump's good graces, but a very bad legal strategy. one of the issues here for the defense is there's so much to work with as danny mentioned a moment ago. so much to work with with michael cohen. jurors do not like listening to lawyers drone on and on for hours, and you could spend days attacking michael cohen, pointing out every statement he's ever made and talking about all the baggage he has, but the problem for the defense is that's just going to go -- you know, at a certain point, the

jury is just going to go to sleep, their eyes are going to glaze over. they have not had a focused approach on what really matter thes. the few pieces of testimony in which cohen is essentially uncorroborated and is making very key points for the prosecution, so maybe they'll come back and do that, but right no what i've seen is unfocused, uncontrolled, over the top, and at times they're literally repeating cohen's attacks on their own -- their own attacks on donald trump, a very poor performance on cross examination thus far. >> danny, let's talk about the conversations that may be going on behind closed doors, hay may or may not involve donald trump about whether or not he will actually testify. the only thing we know for sure is todd blanche said, your honor, we haven't made a decision yet. i'm paraphrasing there. but if you're the prosecution, you have one more opportunity on redirect, right? is there a way you want to get

under donald trump's skin so that he'll want to take the stand? >> ultimately, look, i've been taking the underdog bet so far saying that donald trump might testify. i've really only been doing that because i think i'd be a legend if he does and no one will remember i was wrong. i think he probably won't testify. the answer to that question and the reason todd blanche says he doesn't know is it really is ultimately up to trump. it is common for a defense counsel to say we're not sure yet. often that is true. it really is in many cases a last minute decision. sometimes the client feels very strongly about testifying right up until the moment they have to get thereupon and take the stand and suddenly they have a change of heart. i don't think trump is any different from anyone else, the fact that he's made these statements that he plans to testify, i don't think you can take that to the bank on any level. i think it's him, some bluster, some bravado, and ultimately the odds are realistically he's never going to take the stand. this is probably the last witness in all likelihood.

>> danny, thank you. renato, you're going to stay with me. we have some breaking news now, our team in the courtroom just told us that a jury has been seated at the corruption trial of new jersey senator bob menendez. we're outside the courthouse as opening statements are about to begin. the courthouse as opening statements are about to begin. but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body

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senator robert menendez has announced that a jury has been seated. menendez is on trial facing 16 criminal charges just down the block from where donald trump has been in court for weeks. he is the first senator ever indicted under the foreign agent statute, and the first person in the senate's 235-year history to be indicted twice in separate bribery cases. prosecutors today are expected to tell the jury that he conspired to trade his influence and power in washington in exchange for everything from a mercedes benz convertible and mortgage payments, to gold and bundles of cash. nbc's ken dilanian is outsides courthouse for us. also with me, new jersey editor for "politico" and former federal prosecutor and legal affairs columnist for "politico," renato mariotti is back with us. ken, give us the breakdown of this july and what happens now. >> reporter: we have a jury of 12 citizens and 6 alternates. it took two and a half days to

whittle that down from 150 prospective jurors. we expect opening statements the within the hour when court reconvenes after lunch. chris, you just explained why this case is historic, the first senator twice indicted for bribery. there's another reason it's historic. senator menendez who chaired the powerful foreign relations committee is not just accused of corruption, bribery, fraud, extortion. he's accused of essentially selling his office to benefit two foreign governments, including the government of egypt and prosecutors say he provided egypt's sensitive non-public information, including the names of u.s. embassy personnel. that, if true, is a profound betrayal. we can expect that prosecutors will hit that point hard in their opening statement. as for his defense, we learned yesterday one thing he can't do, he wanted to call a psychiatrist, who was going to argue that the reason the fbi found nearly $500,000 in cash and gold bars in his house had to do with his family's history of having assets confiscated in cuba and the trauma that that

visited on senator menendez and led him to want to accumulate cash. the judge is excluding that testimony. we may hear to what extent senator menendez plans to blame his wife, nadine menendez for this conduct. she's not on trial today. she suffered an unspecified medical ailment, she'll go on trial later. a lot of the evidence in this indictment came from her phone, her text messages. prosecutors say she was clearly integrally involved in the scheme to solicit gifts and cash, including a mercedes benz convertible from some of these alleged bribe payers and to arrange for official acts by the senator. and in court papers, the senator's lawyer suggested he may argue he wasn't in the loop on all of these things and he may not have realized the law was being violated. we'll see how far down that road he intends to travel. it's a perilous one. we're going to find out in a couple of minutes the contours of these arguments. >> i think when we first saw the indictment, renato, there were a

lot of people who were saying that they could see a defense that was here's a woman who came into his life. she's this kind of femme fatale, and she's the one who arranged all this, that he really didn't have an understanding of what was requesting on. where do you see the defense going? >> absolutely. you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly where it's going to go. really, the defense has obtained something very important by having separate trials. the government loves to charge everyone together, have one big trial and have the defendants point fingers at each other because essentially that means that it gets all their defenses. the jury is hearing all these conflicting stories and they figure they're all telling a falsehood. here in a separate trial i think menendez has a real path here. it's obviously a challenging case, but essentially what he could do is say my wife was

having all these communications. she's not there. she's not at the trial. the government cannot compel her to testify. of course she's not going to 1/2 that trial, and as a practical matter, he can essentially say that somebody else should be blamed for this. i think that's very compelling. obviously there's a lot of charges here. and you know, like jury's going to be inclined to believe the government, they always are in the federal criminal case. i think that there is -- >> let me ask you about the exclusive of the psychiatrist. there is still the question of all that evidence when they did the raid. i don't know about people you know, but having lots of cash and gold bars that can be traceable in your house, tough. may be tough. >> for sure. i said it was a tough case. i'm giving it to you straight. no question about that, and that's going to be a problem for the defense.

that's why they had that expert lined up because that person could essentially tell a story but not be cross examined on anything else. they don't want to put senator menendez on the stand because he's going to have to answer too many questions. that would be enough to kind of get that story in front of the jury via an expert and not have to put the senator himself on the stand. i think it's very challenging. he's going to have to have an explanation for that. i think they've telegraphed what that explanation is. without that expert to tell it, the judge has put them in a position where they have to call their client. as you suggest, there's going to be some very tough questioning from prosecutors. >> dustin, i don't know if you have any insights into senator me menendez. i know you know about him a loot. what should we expect from him in and out of court? >> i wouldn't expect much had

from him in the court, but he's always been a fighter. that's kind of his trademark. that's how he came up in a very rough and tumble environment in north jersey and he got off the first time, so the first time he was charged with corruption and stood trial in 2017. so he kind of has that to sell to folks, but it's a really hard sell. a lot of people are wondering, wow, it's really coincidentally that you keep getting jammed up with federal authorities and landing yourself in court. he can sort of portray himself as an escape artist. he's by his nature very defiant, and he's sure of himself and he has said repeatedly sense he got indicted in september that he's going to fight these challenges and hopefully bead them and run for re-election, which would be an amazing feat if he were able to pull that off.

>> this case could run until june 4th. he has to be in court every day. he'll miss senate votes, hearings, what are you hearing about his prospects to continue in the u.s. senate, and is it possible that democratic colleagues could just say we're done? >> hearing nothing, which is pretty extraordinary in itself for a sitting senator who is indicted for the second time, but that's just the way it is in washington. i'm not based in washington so i don't have my ear to the ground there. from our own reporting and from our colleagues, there's only one person who's on the hill who's being vocal about it and it's senator john fetterman of pennsylvania. the rest of his colleagues, democrats and republicans they're really not saying anything. they're really holding their tongue, and it's interesting. i don't know why. he was admonished last time he was indicted, and the only penalty he's really had to pay to this point was to resign as

the chair of the senate foreign relations committee. but he's still on it. i can't offer a great explanation as to why that is. >> dustin, ken, renato, just the beginning of another trial that we will be following very closely. thank you all. up next, a new warning from unicef about the thousands of children at risk in the gazan city of rafah. a spokesperson for the group who was just based there will join me. and right now we're keeping a close eye on wall street after the april inflation report was released. the nasdaq and s&p 500 hitting all-time highs. what it means for your bottom line ahead in our next hour. ne . [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! breathing claritin clear is like... [♪♪] feeling the breeze

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it's really prime minister benjamin netanyahu rejecting warnings to hold its military push into rafah where roughly half of gaza's population has sought shelter. >> i appreciate the help we've received from the united states at the beginning of the war. president biden came in here, he sent these battle carrier groups and got weapons. we do have a disagreement on gaza, rather on rafah. we have to do what we have to do, and you know, sometimes you have to. you just have to do what is required to ensure your survival and future. >> a massive exodus is underway in rafah.

450,000 civilians have already fled according to the u.n., moving north to areas that are neither safe nor ready receive them. nbc's raf sanchez is reporting from tel aviv. what more can you tell us about the situation in rafah right now and where this might go from here? >> reporter: chris, every day israeli forces are pushing deeper and deeper into that city. this started as a fairly limited operation. the israelis described it as tactical along the egyptian border, around 100,000 palestinian civilians were displaced on the first day of the fighting. that number, as you said, has swelled to 450,000 out of the sort of 1.5 million or so people who are sheltering in the city, and chris, the white house continues to say that up until this point, israel has not crossed president biden's red line and launched an all-out ground assault on the city, but if this operation continues to get bigger and bigger, at some

point, the question has to be raised where is that red line, and when does israel cross it? the rafah crossing, which is the main lifeline for humanitarian aid from egypt into gaza remains closed more than a week after it was seized by israeli forces. israel is currently blaming egypt for the closure saying they want to see it open again, but chris, i have spent all day asking both the israeli military and a unit called cogat which was responsible for coordinating humanitarian aid, who is going to be running the gaza side of the crossing if the egyptians are allowing aid back through and nobody is able to give an explanation at this point. so the main lifeline into gaza closed with no time line at this point for when it will reopen, and humanitarian agencies are saying fuel is running out, and fuel is the absolute life blood of the aid distribution effort

inside of gaza. without fuel for the trucks, you simply cannot get food, cannot get medicine to where it needs to go, and these hospitals that are still functioning are highly dependent on diesel to keep their generators going. i was speaking to an american doctor who's at the european hospital north of rafah right now. he says that they are rationing what little fuel they have. they're turning off lyings in the emergency room trying to keep that hospital functional. now, chris as well as a major disagreement between the u.s. and israel over rafah, we are hearing the white house continue to say to israel that it needs to come up with a clear plan for gaza's future. right now what we're seeing is israeli forces almost playing whac-a-mole with hamas. they go into ab area, clear it out, they leave, and hamas pops back up again. meaning israeli forces have to go in once again. the u.s. says that pattern is going to continue if israel does

not have a plan to secure the peace. prime minister benjamin netanyahu saying that he will not allow the palestinian authority to go back into gaza. he has given only pretty vague explanations about allowing local gazans to run the civilian side of the strip after hamas, he says israel will maintain overall security control, but he says at this point any palestinian who offers to be part of a post-hamas administration is basically putting a target on their back for assassination by the militant group. chris. >> raf sanchez, thank you. i want to bring in someone who has seen the crisis in gaza firsthand. unicef spokesperson tess ingram who was in rafah just last month. tess, thank you so much for being with us. based on your experience, based on what you're hearing from on the ground in gaza, what is the situation that's being faced and what would a large-scale operation there mean for palestinian civilians including

children? >> it already is and would become an even worse catastrophe, chris. you know, when i was there just a few weeks ago, it was a very crowded city. people living along the sidewalks in makeshift shelters. it was very difficult to move around because it was so crowded. we know that every second person in gaza is a child and you see that when you're there firsthand, it really is a city of children, and now there's this mass exodus of people maufg moving to places where there isn't the basic infrastructure and services to meet their needs, to survive. from all accounts it's a real catastrophe, and we're calling relentlessly for the ground offensive in rafah not to escalate any further. >> what does that mean for organizations like unicef, people who are risking their own safety in order to try to help

the people there and as they make the move, are your folks moving with them? are they evacuaing totally? what's the situation for people who still want to try to help? >> unicef's been in the state of palestine for decades. we're not going anywhere. we still have a team on the ground. they're still serving the people of rafah and people in the places they've moved to, such as this so-called humanitarian zone, rawasi. i spoke to colleagues on the ground and they were telling me it's so crowded, even more than it was a few weeks ago, and they can barely move amongst the tents there at the moment. there's just an absolute lack of infrastructure, and people are exhausted, traumatized and just wondering what's going to happen to them next. >> i want to give you some breaking news that we just got here, our courtney kube says the

u.s. has now begun moving a floating dock system for the delivery of that critical humanitarian aid boot waters off the gaza strip and expects the system now to be installed over the next 24 hours. this is according to three separate u.s. officials she spoke with. once it's in place, officials believe the delivery of food and other aid could begin in the first 24 to 48 hours after installation. again, based on your experience, do you think it could then move quickly? how important could this be? >> look, any and all aid that we can get into the gaza strip at the moment is essential. as raf said earlier, the main aid crossings into the gaza strip have been inoperable now for more than a week. we've struggled to get aid in. we've struggled to get fuel in, and as a result bakeries are closing, hospitals are having to ration their fuel, and we know how critical clean water is to prevent disease and malnutrition

in a population that's close to the brink of famine. so we desperately need more aid into the gaza strip. we maintain that the best way to do that is through -- they're the most cost effective and efficient, but failing that, then, yes, this port, if it can get aid in, that's really welcomed. >> tess ingram, we at&t in awe of the work you and your colleagues continue to do in the face of personal safety, emotional trials we can't even imagine, and we thank you for taking the time to talktous. we appreciate it. up next, a brand new nbc news exclusive, how mexico is helping keep u.s. border crossings down. and new federal findings about the faa, which could mean bumpy skies for summer travel. we've got those details ahead. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. watching reports" only on msnbc

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we've actually been more successful than previous administrations at getting mexico to agree that this is a shared concern between two countries. i should point out that jump in numbers is numbers that we obtained here at nbc news. that's not something mexico puts out publicly because it's a different issue for them. there are a lot of mexicans who don't want to see strong enforcement against immigration, and that plays into these talks between the u.s. and mexico. immigration advocates, chris, are saying, look, the u.s. is asking mexico to do their dirty work on immigration. we know a lot of these migrants are pushed directly back into guatemala or honduras without being given the right to make an asylum claim, and some are taken from northern mexico and bussed back down into southern mexico, which makes it all that much harder to access the u.s. asylum system. so, chris, really in a lot of ways the biden administration owes what mexico is doing here for keeping numbers down, keeping them from seeing that

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