norman, bad news... i never graduated from med school. what? but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... that's like $20 a month per unlimited line... i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? that's going to do it for us. do not go anywhere. it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, rachel. imagine the session is over and you held for the elevator in the 50 floor and you find yourself on the elevator with

andrew weissmann, lisa rubin, and me, all of whom were in the courtroom today. that is what you were going to get. you will get the ride down the elevator but it will last an hour. >> i am holding the step the elevator button so we get the most out of all of you. >> this is a courthouse table, right here. thank you. the first thing judge merchan did in the courtroom today before bringing the jury into the room are bringing a witness into the room was to rule in favor of donald trump on an evidentiary point. donald trump pretends it never happens. he stands in the very hallway of the courthouse right outside the courtroom speaking to microphones every day, ranting about how unfair judge merchan is. he appears to hate judge merchan and is very convincing in delivering that feeling. but, he cannot hate the judge

because the judge is unfair. he has to hate him for some other reason. even donald trump knows the judge is fair. today, half of the trump lawyer objections were sustained. there were not that many objections because the trial was proceeding fairly under judge merchan's guidance. the judge did say something today that we know and rages donald trump. it was in the round of the judge's good mornings. to the lawyers on both sides. he said, good morning, everyone. then he said, good morning, mr. trump. and, of course, mr. trump is blasphemy to the man who demands that his lawyers and everyone around him call him by his former official title. good morning, mr. trump. it was not a good morning for

mr. trump when michael cohen took the witness stand to testify against him. witness cohen delivered all the essential elements of the criminal charges against donald trump and his testimony. attorney alvin bragg was watching from the spectator section on the prosecutor side of the room. after being publicly called fat alvin by donald trump at his rally in new jersey this weekend at the same rally in new jersey, donald trump said he could not call former new jersey governor chris christie a, quote, fat pig. could not call him that. he said it out loud of course. the deep perversion of trump that is on display in moments like that is that extremely overweight people at trump rallies, and i mean even more overweight than donald trump, laugh at that use of the word fat as if they are living on

some other planet where harsh adjectives only apply to people they don't like and can't possibly apply to themselves. such as the madness of donald trump which apparently contains an of contagion to affect many millions of his followers. michael cohen was once one of those followers. before anyone ever thought of voting for donald trump, michael cohen's view of donald trump was close to worship. according to his testimony today, michael cohen felt, quote,, i was on top of the world. went donald trump told him it was fantastic, that was donald trump's word fantastic that michael cohen got offenders who did work through fraudulent trump university to accept 20% of the amount of money that donald trump actually owed them for work done at the university. the word fantastic came up four times and michael cohen's testimony always quoting donald

trump's reaction to good news. often involving the cover-up of bad news about donald trump. according to cohen's testimony, trump thought this was fantastic. the cover story in the national enquirer titled the donald trump nobody knows!. it let michael cohen edit that article as part of the inquirers deal with donald trump to publish positive stories about him and terrible stories about his political opponents and to catch and kill any stories about donald trump having sex with women other than his wives while married to those wives. the word we heard in court almost as much as fantastic today was catastrophic. that is what michael cohen called the access hollywood video that showed donald trump breaking about his favorite methods of sexual assault and that's what michael cohen said stormy daniels' story would be if it became public before the

election. catastrophic. and so, in the final days of the presidential campaign of 2016, the scheme was hatched to buy stormy daniels silence, according to michael cohen's testimony, donald trump told michael cohen, quote, to take care of it. and did you ask him at that time whether he had had a sexual encounter was stormy daniels? >> i did. >> did he answer you directly? >> no. >> what did he say? did he say anything in response? >> no. >> did he mention anything about what he looked like? >> he said she was a beautiful woman. >> donald trump repeatedly told michael cohen, quote, just take care of it. we kept hearing that line today over and over again. according to michael cohen's testimony, donald trump said, quote, this is a disaster total disaster. women are going to hate me. this is a disaster. women will hate me. guys may think it's cool, but this will be a disaster for the

campaign. that is what donald trump thought the stormy daniels story would be. a disaster for the campaign. michael cohen quoted trump saying what i want you to do is just push it out as long as you can. just get past the election, because if i win, it has no relevance. i will be president. if i lose, i don't even care. >> did you bring up at the time the topic of his wife, melania, and one of those conversations? >> i did not. >> what did you say? >> i said to him, how does thing going to go with upstairs? >> were you concerned about the? >> i was. >> and what, if anything, did he say to you about that? >> don't worry, he goes. he goes, how long do you think i will be on the market? not long. >> what did you understand that to mean? >> he wasn't thinking about

melania. this was all about the campaign. >> michael cohen on the witness stand dislike donald trump in aa. michael cohen was once in many ways as bad as donald trump. threatening people. acting in a gangster like way. on the witness stand today, he was a different person. he said something donald trump would never say, could never say. he used a phrase, donald trump could never use. when michael cohen talked about wanting to at least be considered for white house chief of staff which he admitted he was not qualified for, he said he just wanted to be on the list. kind of publicly on the list. he wanted people to think he was being considered for the job of white house chief of staff., quote, solely for my ego. that is a line donald trump could never speak. solely for my ego. it explains everything donald

trump does. every breath he takes, but donald trump could never admit anything like that. the way michael cohen admitted that today. that is the new michael cohen. who sees his ego now was one of problems that drove him in a criminal direction with the egomaniacal and unrepentant donald trump. michael cohen on the witness stand today, in the courtroom, was unlike any version of michael cohen you have ever seen. he was not fighting back at the questions and being belligerent the way he was when he appeared on tv in 2016 is a campaign surrogate for donald trump. he was not sounding like the gangster he wanted to sound like when he was calling up reporters then and threatening them during the first trump presidential campaign. he was not making fun of donald trump or taunting donald trump, as he has done so frequently and recently on social media.

it was not the emboldened michael cohen who has turned against donald trump and publicly attacks him. it was michael cohen, the lawyer. knowing how we witness should sound on the witness stand, calm, deliberate, careful, clear . sometimes vivid. as the six hours of testimony were on, michael cohen became more comfortable on the witness stand and more importantly perhaps, the jury probably became more comfortable with him . every courtroom became's community in a multiweek trial like this with the same people coming into the room every day. michael cohen became the new neighbor in the community today. he was not the fool that he had been in the past. he was not the monster he had sometimes been in the past. he was, for those manhattan jurors who will judge this case very much one of them. everyone

living in manhattan knows a guy who looks and sounds like michael cohen. most of the guys we know who look and sound like michael cohen do not have criminal records like michael cohen. they do not have a dark criminal past like michael cohen. most apartment buildings in new york have a guy or several guys like michael cohen you can run in on the elevator and exchange a cheerful greeting. the jury did not look perplexed by michael cohen. this jury is especially good at not giving away the slightest hint of what they are thinking. michael cohen more than any other witness who has testified in that courtroom delivered his testimony directly to the jury today. at all the right times when a could be effective, michael cohen physically turned toward the jury, a little bit, turned his head and his eyes to them. to deliver his answer directly to them, creating the effect of someone trying to help the jury

understand. given the wild range of public behavior, we have seen from michael cohen over the years, the prosecution could not have delivered a better version of michael cohen to this jury today. the real test will come on cross-examination tomorrow. if michael cohen can maintain the sober tone he said today, if michael cohen can maintain his calm, deliberate, response in the face of attacks, then this case will go to the jury as solidly as the prosecution could hope for. michael cohen has at times been a horrible person. the jury also discovered today that he is the son of a holocaust survivor. holocaust survivor who made it to this country and fulfilled his dream of living a better

life here. the jury discovered that michael cohen is devoted to his wife, his son, and his daughter. michael cohen now lives a life full of regrets. what was donald trump doing during michael cohen's testimony? 10 minutes and donald trump closed his eyes, tilted his head back, probably trying to communicate to us, couldn't possibly be falling asleep at 9:40 a.m. so don't consider my closed eyes to be proof of sleep. his eyes are closed in the course of the day much much longer than anyone would reasonably close their eyes for any purpose other than sleep. his head tilts to the side sometimes and slums. when donald trump's eyes were open today, i could see over his shoulder that he was frequently reading from typed quotes of public commentators supporting him. the top name on the page that i could see him reading was mark levin in bold print.

the right-wing commentator. underneath that, that statement was a statement by mark levin made about this case that donald trump liked. below that, the bold print name of andrew mccarthy was there, lawyer who said something donald trump liked about the case. if his defense lawyers came up with this plan of handing him in effect fan mail to read during the trial, it has worked brilliantly because to the jury, it looks like the defendant is maybe examining some important documents in the case because they cannot tell what is on the other side of those papers that he is holding to his face to read. those comments at donald trump spent reading endlessly praising him and attacking this case are the perfect behavioral corrective tool for donald trump

in the courtroom. it means his eyes are open, and he is reading, and he seems alive instead of a sleeping baby. these papers that he holds up to read work with all the power that a pacifier brings to a 2- year-old. they keep him under control. the courtroom has four 60 inch or so tv screens around the room would show exhibits when they are discussed. the rest of the time, those screens show four different video shots of the courtroom. the top of the screen is occupied by one box of video showing the judge and another box a video of a much closer focused shot of the witness. the bottom of the screen has a box on the left of the screen showing the district attorney table of lawyers and the podium

for the attorney who is asking the questions, and on the right side of the screen on the bottom is the trump defense table which requires a much wider shot because it has an extended piece which includes additional lawyers. there is a band across the bottom of the screen under that wide shot that includes the date written out, may 13, 2024. under the prosecution box, that side of the video screen says new york state unified court system. on the right side of the bottom of the screen, right below donald trump, it says new york county, supreme criminal. that is meant to be the description of the kind of courtroom you are in. every day, donald trump spends his day on those tv screens, apparently without ever

noticing the powerful irony of the words he is sitting on top of on those screens all day. new york county supreme criminal. andrew weissmann, lisa rubin, they were in the courtroom with me today and they will join us next. next.

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prosecutor, would you have made the payment to stormy daniels without getting a sign- up for mr. trump? michael cohen, no. why not? because everything required mr. trump's sign off.

on top of that, i wanted the money back. leading up the discussion tonight, andrew weissmann, the eastern district of new york and legal analyst and co-author of the book the trump indictments. also atom class filled who was in the courtroom today. he is a fellow at just as security in lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent who was in the courtroom today. lisa got a better seat in front of me. it's roulette wheel when you get in there. andrew, i want to begin with the proposition you raised before this testimony. the question of, do we need michael cohen's testimony at all? >> i was thinking about that. the state was going to call him. one of the things i think that surprised people, surprised me, is how strong the case is. it's starting with david pecker

who is such a damning witness who said i am a principal and i had this agreement that was incredibly shocking and all details but the dissemination of false information which michael cohen talked about again today, and the catching of bad information about donald trump. from there, you have jeff and his notes that detailed the cover up skiing. alan weisberg's notes. incredibly damaging information. the defense decides we will cross-examine those people? not really. we will cross-examine stormy daniels who is largely colorful but irrelevant to the case. i was like, this case is really strong. if it was any other case, i wonder if he would actually call michael cohen because he is so much baggage. we will see cross tomorrow and it will be difficult. i think it's the right call, but it's

useful to think about how much evidence the state has that is completely independent of michael cohen. in large measure what michael cohen did today is say things you knew happen, but you are not hearing it. you knew that had to be what happened, but one thing, speculating that must be the case, and actually hearing it from an insider. it's a useful thing. it will come with some downsides and we will find out at the end of the case whether it was the right call. >> lisa, michael cohen brought us in a room we were not going to get into through testimony without him. that was, michael cohen, allen weisselberg working at this agreement, hand writing it on a piece of paper and walking it into donald trump's office and donald trump looks at the same piece of paper and says okay, let's do this. >> exactly. you must have the same eagle

eyes that saw you with trump looking at mark levin. to andrew's point. michael cohen in some respects is a superfluous witness but there's some conversations he was a party to that could not have come into the case before michael cohen. you do not need direct evidence to prove a case, but there's so much direct evidence of the underlying conspiracy that if prosecutors had not taken the opportunity to give these jurors direct evidence of the crime that's actually charged, the falsification of business records, as either done by trump are caused by trump, i think the jurors would've thought, what else is there? is this it? bringing in michael cohen to talk about the conversation, i thought, was absolutely critical. you are right, they bring this paper which is a bank statement from michael cohen's llc that he obits up a storm and -- stormy daniels. then they scroll on it how the

payment will go. they walk it into trump's office and that's what michael cohen realizes they premed the meeting, they had the conversation about how what will go to divide this $420,000 into 12 monthly installments. here is a question. did he say anything about how it would be paid out as something? answer, yeah, as like a legal service rendered since i was then being given the title as personal attorney to the president. and, indeed, these documents the general ledger, the checks, the invoices. what do you see? a description of for legal services rendered and here's my bill for $35,000 and conversely back out, here is your $35,000 as a retainer for x or y month. this is critical and hugely important. as you noted, i what did trump say? he approved it and he also

said, this will be one heck of a ride in d.c. a ride michael cohen didn't get to go on. >> adam, as we saw the evidence come in today, there were times when it was slower and other times verifying call logs. this was the day where all that information the jury has gotten before about what these call logs mean and this phone number call that phone number on a certain day, this was the day they discovered that this was done so michael cohen can sit here and say that is me calling donald trump at that moment. >> on that date at that hour. it went very systematically. as you said, michael cohen delivered his testimony very cool, methodical, collected. if you add up the time he spent on the witness stand simply responding to questions about the corroborating evidence. it's an avalanche of it. very little actually came to the more dramatic testimony

like his testimony about melania trump seeing melania trump reading some of her text messages related to the access hollywood tape. about some of the other episodes of his not getting paid and how in a familiar story for trump and many of his scandals builds himself into a heap of trouble by not paying people. those were the moments that set the tone of the day but the star the testimony, i would say, was that the presumed star witness michael cohen, but the pile of evidence that corroborated every call, every text message, every tweet, every tape that was played into evidence. he would probably be described as a central witness being a god, the shower to the underworld about all they, star witness. >> andrew, the issue of michael

cohen's credibility, what i keep wondering about is applied to what? what exactly he sent $130,000 to stormy daniels. it does not matter -- his credibility does not matter. the paper is there. we have it all. reimbursement structure to him. he says that his reimbursement. there is no other theory what it is. there will probably not be another theory introduced into evidence. in cross-examining, questions there might be, but that's not evidence as the jury will be told. this issue that michael cohen has lied before, we may have credibility struggles with him. about what? >> yeah, that is the key problem for the defense is there is no counter narrative at this point. there is no other story. you were going to hear that in summation from the government

which is, tell me the other store that accounts for all this evidence? on the other hand, this issue was sort of central witness versus critical witness is going to be the key defense argument which is if he is a critical witness, it's a hard case to win. they have to win proof beyond a reasonable doubt. they will be pointing at, saying, do you have to find that the conversation in the white house that we will hear tomorrow where donald trump says yes, i understand there were payment scheme. i understand the actual charge here which is these were false business records. these were going to be accounted for as fake legal fees. do you really have to believe michael cohen? that is what the defense wants. they want a battleground of michael cohen's credibility. that is where the state wants

to say, he is a nice sort of to work guide through other evidence you don't need. he is going to have a difficult time tomorrow, even if he is great on cross, he's got to admit enormous baggage about committing perjury. committing perjury and making false statements not just for donald trump. he has done that also in his own interest. that's not a witness who you say, i am going to believe him no matter what. that's where the mountain of corroboration is important. >> what else did you see in michael cohen's testimony today that we should be highlighted? >> because allen weisselberg are. when we talk of counter narratives. >> he is still alive. a ghostly presence in the courtroom. he kind of came to life today but not in the courtroom.

>> if i'm a low information jerk, jurors are right there, they were deliberately selected because they're not high- intensity people. if i do not know where era -- allen weisselberg is right now, i will be wondering, where is this guy? it's a guy michael cohen told us today every penny that came in or out of the organization with him. it was typical for everybody to discuss financial matters with allen weisselberg. when they were talking about repaying david pecker, deal that eventually fell apart, how many conversations did michael cohen say he had with allen weisselberg how to structure that? 10 to 12. if i am jurors, i am wondering where the heck is allen weisselberg right now? >> we will squeeze in a quick break. break.

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michael cohen told the jury how he and donald trump kept trying to delay paying stormy daniels. michael cohen, in this case, use the holiday of yom kippur of a way of once again trying to delay it which is until the election. >> and the reason? >> after the election, it would not matter. >> according to who? >> according to mr. trump. adam klasfeld, he established and reestablished in his testimony how much this was an

election-based action. stormy daniels needed to be silenced for the before the election. >> that's why he told the story about melania trump. dispensing with the defense theory of the case. it was all about his wife and never mind every other witness said is not about melania trump . that's the point of the exchange of how was it going upstairs? trump did not care about that and that's consistent with every witness has said so far corroborating michael cohen. it goes to show, i want to go back to something i said earlier. about another key moment, talking about patterns repeating. one of the patterns is trump being his worst enemy by not paying people. it was a key moment of the trial today where cohen was asked about getting

shortchanged on his end of year bonus. he was asked, how do you feel about the situation of him cutting your bonus and not repaying you yet for the stormy daniels payout? this was a moment i want to call attention to it. as you said, a cool and collected almost actuarial direct examination. here, conveyed just how angry he was. it was one of the only times he conveyed emotion. i was truly insulted. personally hurt by it. i didn't understand it. it made no sense. after all that i had gone through in terms of the campaign as well as things at the trump organization, in laying out $130,000 on his behalf to protect him, it was insulting that the gratitude shown back to me was to cut the bonus by two thirds. a little later, would you tell the jury about your conversation with allen weisselberg because cohen was

angry at him. but after opening it, i had to take a double take and then immediately went to allen weisselberg's office in the back and in colorful language expressed to him how truly angry i was. this makes no sense at all, but i used quite a few expletives. a couple pages later in the only moment of the transcript where the stenographer saw fit to know there was laughter in the courtroom, he added, even for myself, i was unusually angry. >> i took that to be one of those human michael cohen moments. he's not kidding who he is. even though he was talking about anger, what he was showing was hurt. he was not angry and talking about anger. what were you thinking, sitting there and watching this witness for the first time, lot will turn on cross examination, what were you thinking watching the witness? >> michael cohen joins a lot of

people who have become corroborating witnesses against their bosses. sammy, the underboss of the gambino family against john gotti, the boss. andrew was the cfo of enron against jeff. you could go on and on. people think, oh, this is easy. you want a lighter sentence. you really have to be honest with yourself and look at yourself dispassionately and you , you not only have to come front that but under a public spotlight. i thought there were these moments, that was one of them, where you saw, as you said , a different michael cohen

where he really had to come to terms with that and be honest with himself. people including myself, walk around self-deluded, and one of the things you quoted in the opening where he said, when i got praise from donald trump, it was like i was on top of the world. i was sort of struck by that. it explained him then and it explained him now. in terms of that relationship and what it meant to him, and the loss of that relationship. it goes to the loss you are describing. it was poignant. >> we have to squeeze in something we owe the audience which is what you told me at the end of the show thursday night about her juries get used two strange witnesses. >> sammy, i put him on a lot and he testified in lots of cases. one of the things he said the

first testifying, it was like a lion was on the loose in the courtroom and the jurors were aghast. the next day, they were looking over. by the third day, they're going, here kitty. they get used to it. they will be used to seeing and able to judge michael cohen. that's an advantage of a witness who sent her a long time. you can't be anything but yourself. the jurors see that. >> we will be right back. back.

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used to recording the jury heard in court today the michael cohen said he made on his iphone of the conversation with donald trump and donald trump's office. >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding. yes. and it's all the stuff. all the stuff. you never know with the company -- you never know what he's -- i'm all over that. i spoke to alan about it. when it comes to financing >> what financing? >> we have to pay him something. >> pay with cash. that was about susan mcdougal and the national enquirer. karen mcdougal.

it was leading up to stormy daniels. >> it was. one of the things i thought was interesting about playing the phone call is that's not the first time i heard it. we heard a because a forensic specialist and the da office played it to authenticated. the trump team didn't want to stipulate for basically agree, the some of the things that are pro forma. phone records, text messages. phone recordings or what they say they are. the jury got to hear the phone recording not once but three times. the first time through the forensic specialist. today, second time, all the way through. then, on direct examination by susan hoffinger, she played snippets and asked michael cohen to annotate. what did you mean by this and this and this? that's a clear reference to david pecker. someone could be run over a truck. that's what happens if david -- david pecker is no longer in

control of the lock cabinet or the karen mcdougal agreement? that was a reference to the locked cabinet and karen mcdougal. what is allen weisselberg doing in the conversation? repetition is the flipside of the time t's obstreperous nest with respect to no stipulations. it makes it more intelligible for the jury when you print something not just once but three times. >> there is nothing like hearing the defendant's voice and a recording like that in a conspiracy. >> absolutely. moving off something that lisa just said, to take back the first time we heard it. hearing the defendant my ski voice and hearing the witness on tape, it was during a cross examination the trump's attorney had advanced the theory that this was somehow falsified. when you put all of this evidence together, having the

jury process that explanation, what is the competing theory? it was said a little earlier. when you see all the evidence laid out through the testimony for hours and hours. text and phone messages. you have to imagine a series of coincidences that cohen is calling trump and hope hicks and keith davidson, all these opportune times that reaches to a level of qanon style conspiracy theory. i don't see how the defense will threat that needle. >> with a witness like michael cohen, they have told a story and gave a biographical opening. they have not included his criminal record. they have not included all the dark sides of michael cohen, the character. shirley, the prosecutor will do that before handing him over to

cross examination tomorrow. >> this is a strategy different between what happened in the district attorney's office and every federal prosecutor and certainly the way i was trained where we would do that up front . there are upsides and downsides. the upside is you are up front with the jury as to who they will be hearing from. it doesn't take them by surprise. the downside is that the jury might stop listening. i have never really had that experience. today -- here at will, the back end and there's no question they will go over that. susan hoffinger knows what she's doing. you will hear tomorrow at the end of what i will call the fact portion of his testimony, you will hear about all sorts of crimes. if she's smart, she will bring out that they're not all for donald trump. you want to pull the teeth on

that. tomorrow, they will learn both from the prosecution a lot of bad acts, crimes he had committed including perjury. the -- there will be a lot of cross examination. that tape recording will be used to say he will do something behind donald trump's back. it will be a rough cross examination but that's part of the system. >> one of the challenges of this from the defense perspective is, whatever you think of michael cohen and whatever the defense wants the jury to think of michael cohen, donald trump hired him. donald trump kept him on for 10 years. donald trump made him a republican party official for a while, in fact. this guy is here because donald trump made the choice for him to be here. >> donald trump tested him from the first interaction they had. michael cohen testified today the first he did some unpaid legal work for donald trump

that he understood would be unpaid. then he did what was in about $100,000 worth of work on a complicated bankruptcy transaction for which is from expected to be paid $100,000. he goes to talk to donald trump about paying the bill. trump offers him an opportunity to work at trump tower. what does michael cohen do next? he doesn't even go back to his lover to collect his belongings. he literally says i would be delighted to. he testified today that trump said people from the organization to go to his law firm and get his stuff. he started that very minute. from the outset, michael cohen knew who donald trump was and donald trump knew who michael cohen was. they were in cahoots together from the beginning. this dastardly transactional relationship. it's funny to hear michael cohen say how disappointed and how her day was because it was always about credit for michael cohen.

>> the question is, who is michael cohen going to be tomorrow on cross-examination? >> if the civil fraud case is any guide, he will be more contentious. he won't be the same cool and collected, we have been through this before. i expect he will try to fight back, if there is some suggestion that he is revamping his story. one of the marks of this, and it's an interesting facet of this is hope hicks kind of boxed in trump's defense to a degree when she said essentially that cohen was too selfish to follow trump's script for what this was. that cohen was freelancing, doing this on his own and protecting his boss . the entire defense of the case thrives on the idea cohen selflessness pre-2018 anyway

that even hope hicks, a trump loyalist, said is inconsistent with the evidence. it's a counterintuitive way of turning one of his biggest weaknesses into a mark of credibility. >> that will have to be the last word. at this very moment, the last time we convened at this table, donald trump posted on social media something about this show. me, left you out of the line of fire. if we are lucky, we have's attention again tonight. let's see what he is typing in the next couple of minutes. andrew weissmann, lisa rubin, adam klasfeld, thank you for being here. being in the courtroom with me today and guiding me. d guiding

that is the last word. the 11th hour starts right now. the people of new york called michael cohen. the star witness at the center