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>> you cannot overstate how significant this statement was. but hicks describes a meltdown. >> the impact of the tape and the impact of the other stories has to be driven home to the jury. >> she just started crying. the tissues came out and the judge said we will take a break. >> i'm not allowed to testify. this judge is totally conflicted, has me under an unconstitutional gag order. >> unconstitutionally gagged. he gag me. >> the judge reaffirmed today that trump has the absolute right to testify. crackdowns continue on college campuses across the country. >> we intend to be here until our demands are met no matter what. >> is a radical left lunatics. >> you have the right to protest but not the right to cause chaos. >> nationwide more than 2100 arrests have been made connected with campus protest. >> because of donald trump more than 20 states have abortion bands. >> strict limits will take

effect. >> impacts will be held not just in florida, but across the southeast. >> former president donald trump did this. >> it evening, once again, i'm stephanie ruhle, and we are not 186 days away from the election. this week donald j trump continued to protest his treatment and his criminal trial here in new york city. across the nation, protest against the war in gaza expanded to more college campuses. and some school officials decided they had enough. with that, let's bring in our nightcap crew. it's a great one. tom rogers is back. msnbc and cnbc foundered, now editor of newsweek. and publisher of fast company and inc. magazine, and columnist for the independent and author of.com news. and semi-sage, cofounder and

chief creator officer. this was another crazy busy week in his criminal case against donald trump. donald trump got fined for not violating the gag order. another gag order hearing. this morning the judge didn't stick it to donald trump, but he made it clear because donald trump has been out there saying i'm not going to be able to testify because of the gag order. and the judge looked him square in the eye and said you absolutely can, enough of this nonsense. one of the issues, though, there are no cameras in the courtroom. trump is going to go right back out on the trail and say it is the judges fault. how do you think this whole thing is going? >> well, i am still very worried that we have a prospect for a hung jury here. i am very suspicious. very suspicious of jurors getting on their saying they don't have an opinion of donald trump. i have never met a new yorker who doesn't have an opinion of donald trump. there are two lawyers there, and

if either of them are of a camp that favors donald trump, that is something that is going to upset the normal dynamic of the jury room having two lawyers on the jury. so i think the downside here is worse than the upside potential, because the conviction here in this particular case i don't really think is going to matter that much. when you look back at the hollywood access tape, which happened at a much more important time in the political career of donald trump and was an issue today in the trial, that didn't do it. i don't think talking about issues like this now are going to upset donald trump selection. >> but if you are alvin bragg, alvin bragg would say i am not

doing this for anyone to win or lose an election. i am doing this because donald trump broke the law. >> that's fine, but what we have to worry about is donald trump coming back as president. and anything that would help his case in a hung jury here, i think he would scream for the rest of the campaign that he was exonerated, there was nothing here, it was a ridiculous case and new york prosecutors couldn't find anything better to do with their time. this is really an issue that i worry we are going to have to confront, and much more of a downside than an upside here. >> diane, how do you think the prosecution is? >> i have to agree with tom. we are going to talk about the hope hicks testimony in a little bit. a lot of people saying this was a slamdunk for the prosecution. i think hope hicks made a compelling case for the fact that donald trump also was concerned about melania's feelings. whether or not we believe that.

but she put it out there, and if you have that juror who says you know, this calls into question this argument that the hush money payment was strictly a business engagement and an arrangement designed to help win the election. she provided a counterargument. >> what did you think about the hope hicks testimony? this was a woman who was glued to donald trump's side. his entire administration. people very rarely heard her speak. there she was. didn't even make eye contact with him. supposedly hasn't spoken to him for a couple of years. what did you think about it? >> etiquette must've been very frightening for her. i think there are many accounts he was an intimidating person, and he is sitting as far apart as we are from her. and i imagine that she has some sort of emotional attachment to this phase in her life. i imagine there were some things that happened that were, that she has seen that have led her to not speak with him anymore.

and i think it was not easy for her to be able to give a completely honest accounting of what happened without feeling like i need to impress them and falling back into that way of being. >> what did you think? because trump has been frustrated with his lawyers. he wants them to go tougher. he wants them to be like rogue one who was disbarred and displaced. >> i think that boosts her credibility. >> crying? being fragile? >> no, i think are essentially showing that this was an emotional moment for her to be on the stand, under oath, in front of donald trump. like you said, she has this emotional connection, she has this history. but it was actually compelling because i think she did give evidence that was helpful to the prosecution by saying that under no circumstances did michael cohen do this under the goodness of his heart, out of his own volition. and it came

to that, this was for donald. this was not something that michael would do in a benevolent nature. not only that, we have the david pecker testimony really tying us to the fact that this is an election interference case which i think makes it more compelling. this was an effort to keep information from the voting public. hopefully that is what the prosecution is trying to do, seek and prevent a hung jury. when you have some people see the severity of it and see that there was actually intent to, which hope hicks also said, and i'm going on. but she said it was a crisis in the campaign after the access hollywood. that tells me that his intent. you have that tape and now you need to conceal his information. >> the theater of how donald trump performs to me is more

interesting than the evidence at trial. >> but do you not think there was any theater to hope hicks? she was crying, she was fragile. she was the person one inch away from all four years. during charlottesville, after january 6. i'm not sure i buy this fragile inginue of there, like this is such a difficult moment. i didn't see any difficult moments. she stood next to him the whole time. >> that is why i think it was a difficult moment. think of what she must've experience. willingly, yes. but a lot of people have trouble with, i don't want to get into and cross this line, but an abusive sort of dynamic. >> you are extruding that, maybe she was all in. >> maybe, but why was she all in? >> why is stephen miller all in? >> i think she is testifying

against trump, and of all people to testify against trump, she is a good prosecution witness. as i said, at the end of the day i don't think that is what really matters here. it is trump theatrics. and i think what he was trying to do early on was provoke the judge into really hitting him with a contempt charge hard that might have involved going to jail. for some hours. so he could really play the card of i am being gagged here, i can't speak, i can't believe the judge to put the former president of the united states and jail for speaking his mind. i think in the last couple of days he may have whacked off of the thought that is helpful. and the reason for that i think has to do with what we will talk about later, all the protests. that chaos in that world hurts biden, in his mind, and he is the guy who supposedly is going

to be in control. if you are out of control yourself to the point that the judge has to jail you because you can't behave in a way that is within the decorum of the court system, then who are you to say that you are the guy who is going to be in control here? >> you are being something deep. i'm liking what you're selling. >> he has backed away from that provocation because of that. >> the sort of nihilistic view of any of the, does any of it even matter? a hung jury, whether he gets convicted, everyone will doubled down as they always do. you have the republicans will be like this such a problem, i'm concerned. but 10 minutes later they are back there at mar-a-lago and paying for his meal. my fear is that none of it gets to anybody and people don't have clear information access. and it is just very, very hard

for people to get out of their silo. >> i want to go to my fear, and it weighed a comment. on wednesday trump had the day off of court, he was on the campaign trail, and what did he do? he told reporters he will not necessarily accept the election results if he doesn't like them. i.e., if he doesn't win. i get that maybe somewhere in the back of her mind, oh, we assumed he would do that. that is a huge problem. >> but trumped always tells you what he's going to do. the time magazine article pointed out everything he said he was going to do. people have been, the 2025 project, very clearly spells out exactly what is going to happen if there is a trump administration. and similarly, when trump says that he will not accept the results of the election, we should be prepared for the fact that he is not going to accept the result of the election. it is plain as day. he is going to do exactly as he says. >> and it will be a very

different approach to election denial than it was last time. they learned a lot. and what they learned is you got a stay away from the courts. can you deny elections and not have it subject to court review? the big difference this time that everybody has to pay attention to is that you have mike johnson as speaker, not nancy pelosi. and the fact of the republicans control the house is significant in this respect. there is a view that the house election in terms of who takes control is going to be close. but the democrats have a really good shot. it is the previous congress, current congress that certifies house races. and it could be something, and i'm sure they thought of this. if there are some close races that the democrats look like they have won, but it would turn control of the house to the democrats, they don't certify. then you end up on january 3rd with the republicans in control. come january 6th, you have the

republicans, and this is a huge issue. a parliamentary packet, which would mean that the electoral count format which was supposed to solve all this to make sure that an election couldn't be stolen by congress, one problem. those rules have to be adopted by the house, meaning the senate is a continuous body. it has it's people who are two thirds of the body that continues every election cycle. the house, it's a new house every time. if you don't put the implanting rules of the house for election , for adoption, you have a situation where they could reject the vote in close states, because they have now stolen a house through election denial. >> if we do not start serving vodka when tom rogers is here we are all going down. >> this is really serious and has to be paid attention to, because they learned a lot. >> then are democrats just a

few months from now going to severely regret it if they end up saving mike johnson. marjorie taylor greene is trying to oust mike johnson, and it is democrats who could be the ones who keep him in that position. if everything plays out in this deeply draconian way, the way tom is predicting, are democrats going to rue the day they help this guy? >> there is always the risk of someone worse than mike johnson, if that is even imaginable. if that is the risk, i think that is something they might buffer for and that is what they can do. but really what it comes down to is i like the point you made about how they have learned from last time. and that's a great point. >> this campaign is so much smarter and more discipline. even if trump doesn't seem to be, his operation is. >> and congress takes office before january 6, so whatever changes happen there, that is what is going to essentially impact what happens next. meanwhile, the transition we've been talking about with 2025, they have been, i know you had

sam jacobs on a couple nights ago, he mentioned this ideological, intellectual, legal framework the project 2025 is doing. trump has the reverse of that. they are taking his ravings and they are codifying it into calm, deliberate policy that can actually get achieved. they are finding legal avenues to get this stuff done, and i know our last segment we are talking about the dismantling of agencies and the purging of civil servants. they have the plans to do so, and that is the other side of this. if they go this route to potentially try and steal the election, now right after you are talking about taking office and purging civil servants by reinventing schedule f and pursuing this insane agenda that was outlined in the time magazine interview that just detailed the dystopian future every american should aware of. >> another f is in my mind right now.

nobody is going anywhere. when we return, protest on college campuses and what it could mean for the 2024 election. and later, are mvps of the week in a very special one to remember those who served this country. we are on nightcap in the 11th hour continues. hour continues. sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley deep down, i knew something was wrong. since my fatigue and light-headedness would come and go, i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness

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mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? it was a busy week. this week pro-palestinian protests continued on college campuses, and some administrators decided they had had enough. in the case of columbia and ucla, called in

law enforcement to clear out encampments. over 2000 people have been arrested. this is been crazy. stephanie, are you surprised about how quickly everything escalated this week, from the size of the protests, to the responses? >> yeah, i think i am a little surprised. mostly because you had students who were, i think it is a pressure cooker situation. and you have young people who are feeling incredibly disaffected, you have young people, i think a couple of articles have pointed out that this class of 2024, these were the kids who were covid seniors. they didn't get a proper graduation when they graduated from high school. they will probably not get an in person graduation this year, depending on the campuses they are on. so this is a group of young people who are incredibly disaffected. they have been in this pressure cooker. so all of a sudden they are, i think, feeding off of one another.

on top of that, in a place like columbia or another of these urban campuses, you have outside forces coming in. and i think the fact that they were riled up was one thing. i was a little surprised by the swiftness with which the administrations sought to quell the dissent. >> tom, the protesters are demanding that the universities, the endowments divest from any investments in any companies that do business in israel. and i understand on its face it looks like they can just do that. this is really, really competent. we are talking billions and billions of dollars. and it is difficult to do. and they are so angry with universities for not doing it. is that one of the issues, that this isn't necessarily a demand that can just get solved? and in many cases, the university does not necessarily control the endowment. >> right, i think the demand is

totally off base. because i don't believe at the end of the day that there is a broad humanitarian viewpoint here that they are really after. because if that was the case we would hear something about ukraine. the columbia professors talk about why israel? why not all kinds of inhumane treatment by china, korea, and they say because u.s. policy is to support israel. it is one that we are involved in in terms of our foreign policy. well, ukraine we are heavily enmeshed in, and they're all kinds of innocent lives there. and you had a huge package on the floor of congress about passing legislation to help ukraine. and not a peep out of any university about civilians being slaughtered there. so if you really look at this, it's hard not to think that there is an anti-semitic

undertone to an awful lot of this that i really question how much of it is broad humanitarian interest. because you can't have ukraine happening side-by-side with the slaughter and yes, some genocide there with russian forces slaughtering soldiers who are trying to protect civilians who have little to no cover from air raids. and not a peep out of a single university of humanitarian interest in helping. >> this is obviously so loaded. >> you are giving a preach face to tom wright there. >> it really is such a, gated issue. and i think part of it is the grief of these students. who had not had any sort of outlet. and they are so disconnected. they have not had a normal college experience. but aside from that, there is something about israel that definitely riles people up.

and i think what scares me the most is the broad chasm between the way that people talk about how this protest was, what this protest was. you have some people saying oh, it is this woodstock environment, and then you have images and accounts from people who are like, you know, saying i cannot get to my class because they are physically boring me. and i think with nypd came out and said, there is quite a large proportion of the people arrested who are not students, who are over 30 years old, not from new york state, and who have been arrested multiple times. so i'm sort of eager to get to the part where we understand what really happened here, what sort of extent was outside agitation, and the conditions that made the students really susceptible to something blowing up in this way. >> the thing that scares me as an employer is that these young people are now going to be coming into the workforce. and i'm not talking about

protesters specifically. i am talking about this disaffected generation. and i think about the fact that they are a generation that is more depressed than any other generation before. they are a generation that has more screen time than any generation before. less attention span. higher degrees of mental distress. in less social skills. a lot of articles have pointed out that these are young people who can't communicate on the basketball court because they don't know how to talk to each other in person. they are so used to communicating via phone or text. so all of these young people are coming into a workforce where we already see incredibly high levels of disengagement among young people. and i don't know how much care and feeding it is going to require to get these otherwise incredibly intelligent young people up to speed to function in our workplace. >> and i wanted to make a quick point on the difference

between, i think, the outrage around ukraine in israel is that these students feel that we have influence over israel, as opposed to we don't have increments influence over russia. >> we have a certain ability to resist russia in a big way to try to help civilian populations that are being killed without protection. and not a peep. and there is something really off about that. >> and i did just want to say, i have outrage over ukraine on what the students do. but i actually have a really close friend who is jewish and has a student at ucla, a grad student. and he was in the cabin. he said, all he showed me was that the students were peacefully protesting. and this goes to the weather is these two dueling narratives on what is going on in the ground.

we have these extrapolations, yes, there is anti-semitism we have seen. and some of these are outside agitators, and that deserves condemnation out right. we also need to approach it with empathy and humility, and humanizing what the students are going through. because some of them have real righteous indignation about what they feel is going on in gaza. and of course, obviously october 7th was absolutely horrific and unacceptable. and i think we have to be able to do is hold space for those who are in this protest that are peaceful, as well as also condemning the sides that are not. >> now you have to add the complication, if you are president biden, of the fact that donald trump is telling anyone who will listen these are biden's protest. biden wants this to happen. how does president biden thread this nearly impossible needle, given all the factions in an election 186 days away? and so much misinformation being pushed. >> this is where it becomes a real issue.

i think what people don't see is that biden has gotten so much flak from these protesters for his policies that are protecting israel. and when you say why israel, why is that, what enemies people? i think we are looking at the culmination, this isn't fully organic. we are looking at a culmination of years of i rgc propaganda that has really tried to get people on the side of hamas. and that is something the students are not necessarily fully aware of this entire machine that is behind what they are protesting. >> that's a great point. because the point of universities is to educate. clearly this issue, middle east, israel has hit a chord. and with really rare exception, i have not seen her university say we are canceling classes today, we are going to have mandatory education sessions on the history of israel, the history of the middle east, the history of the holocaust, and how we got to where we are

today. so you can have students who instead of chanting things that do sound as if they are supportive of abolishing israel and genocidal acts against israel, that they truly understand what is going on. maybe that wouldn't be effective. but a university not trying under the circumstances to serve its role in education, rather than try to negotiate for three weeks with a bunch of people that they should've cleared tents from after day one is kind of ridiculous. i want to say, as a new yorker, the nypd was great. mvp credit to the nypd. the men in blue did their job here in a way that was quick, efficient, professional, without violence. and i think they get credit for that. >> why do they need the nypd? >> because they broke the law. >> in the first instance? >> did you see the inside of hamilton hall? >> i'm talking in the week prior, when they first called nypd in, before they were

occupying the hall. they were trying to clear them from the quad, basically. so why do they need to bring in police to clear a student protest? >> because in many instances it wasn't just students. there were lots of people who were not students there. that is why it is such a collocated problem. the right to protest is hugely important. but the university is also in charge of the students. and if they are looking across their quad and it is filled with nonstudents and agitators, you have two kids in college, right? think about all those parents who send their children away to new york city's a college. the school has to be in charge of that. and parents need to be saying where's law enforcement, what is happening on the campus? it is accommodated. as a parent of college students, how do you see this? >> i have to say, when i look at those pictures, and i have two kids in college. they are babies. when you talk about these young people who are not quite fully formed, and they were, their development was arrested even more by covid, those were my

kids. so when i see these pictures of young people up against a police line, i get a little choked up, because one of them could be my kids. so at the same time, you know, i have been in forums with university presidents, and listening to parents of all backgrounds talk about the safety of their children and their concerns about the safety of their children. so i understand that universities absolutely feel an obligation to maintain and make sure the students that are there feel safe. at the same time, i am a first amendment absolutist. so i am going to stand up for the rights of young people to protest every day of the week. >> especially at universities, which are about free expression. when it turns into something else it is a problem. your point on biden i think is the right point. this is really tough for him.

when you look at polls of how the youth vote looked like it was breaking for biden before october 7th, and what it looks like now, he really does look like it is going to be very tough to get the kind of turnout from the youth vote that really helped put him over the line in key swing states. >> we have to go from free speech to speech that you pay for. it's time for a commercial. everybody is staying put. when we come pack our nightcap returns with mvp of the week. you do not want to miss it. the 11th hour of the nightcap will be right back. t back. all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer.

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our nightcap is still here with our mvps of the week. >> you look great in blue. i mentioned the nypd, men in blue. my mvp is the men in blue and orange. the new york knicks. particularly jaelyn brunson. last night, unbelievable performance, taking the first round of the playoffs against the 76ers early in the week of the garden. 20,000 people screaming mvp, mvp . >> they were also screaming f you. >> meas asian-american pacific islander heritage month, so my mvp of the week are the asian american ceos. three of the four most valuable

companies in the world right now run by asian americans. and i think that is something to celebrate. >> sure is. >> i told your producers that my runner-up would be melatonin to be the only thing that could take all down and put him to sleep during the trial. but my actual mvp is the time magazine reporter who took the time to take donald to task over his really authoritarian plans. not only did he do that, he did not mince words in his characterization of the interview, called it a potential imperial presidency. i think that kind of journalism speaks truth to power and says what it is in a straightforward way is necessary and powerful. especially in this really fractured media environment. eric is the guy. >> wasn't it stunning, this time magazine piece? trump, who famously had the fake time magazine cover now finds himself on the cover. he called this a must read interview. he was pushing it, and so is the biden campaign. so this time in history where things are so fractured, the same article, the same piece of information, these two opponents see things in a totally

different way in a country that way. did you read the article, i'm assuming you did? >> as somebody who has been a lot of my time and magazines, what i have discovered is that you can write an article and people bring their own stuff to it. so i have written really negative articles about companies and they have been like this is great! because they only read what they want to read. >> so he brought his own crazy and people interpreted it as they chose? yours? >> minus the man versus bear medium. so basically we just pose a question on the internet, if you are walking in the woods would you rather encounter a man or a bear. and a lot of people are saying bear. >> over a man. >> yeah, that is kind of the overwhelming response. and people are kind of giving their take on it, but what i think is most interesting is that this arose a week after harvey weinstein's conviction was overturned.

and it is like the fact that this is a conversation people are having, when you rather meet a fellow human man or a bear. >> what is that think about what people think of men? >> what did you pick? >> i picked the bear. look, they are supposed to be in the woods. the man is in. and also, there is a formula to deal with bears, i think. i would have to google it, but you know? >> all right, my mvp is going to be a little different this week. to you all, thank you all. i absolutely have loved yours. but when we come back you are going to meet my and here, they are so amazing i had to bring them in. you don't want to miss it on the 11th hour on the nightcap. and electricity... are forever in bloom. welcome to beyond. the mercedes-maybach eqs suv.

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but since golo, that weight has completely gone away, as you can tell. thanks to golo and release, i've got my life and my health back. it is now time for the mvps of the week. mine, at least. and i'm saving the best for last. the month of may marks the start of military appreciation month. and i cannot think of a better way to celebrate than by honoring four brave veterans as my mvps this week. our next guests all served during the vietnam war. three of them flew together as members of the gunslingers squadron, and for the first time in over 16 years, these men were reunited as part of this brand-new campaign for xfinity wi-fi that you see here on your screen. i am so honored to bring them together again as my mvps. let's introduce them. for me navy commander jack gillett, forming a lieutenant jim lloyd, for me navy

lieutenant bill hoyer, and former air force gender ellis or latham. and i should mention that my channel is on by xfinity comcast, that is how i know about this extraordinary campaign. telling what it was like for us to do this. for the three of you to be written i. what was it like? >> it is like 50 years didn't occur. and we didn't have to pretend to be at a reunion last october during the filming. because we were at a reunion. and it was so natural. >> what was it like for you, and to do this project with kathryn bigelow, an extraordinary director who has really devoted her career to showcasing the armed forces? >> it was terrific. and seeing these guys after 16 years, because we had seen each other at a reunion about 16 years ago. but it was like being back on the carrier in the ready room,

swapping stories and insulting each other. >> how often do you all stay in touch? what is this like for you? >> i don't think we stay in touch all that much. but what happened is jim called and wanted to know if we would like to participate. i didn't even ask him what it was. >> but you said yes? >> oh, sure. i did. i didn't think he would ask if it wasn't important. so that was the whirlwind, because i think i talked to him on thursday, and on sunday we were in new york. >> you serve in the air force, obviously these men were in the navy. how important is it to stay in touch, to stay connected with the people you serve with? >> it is extremely important. as a matter fact, i started out in the marine corps. my first six years were a marine. and then i switch to the air

force. but i still keep in touch with a lot of my friends from vietnam. and all of my friends in college. so i enjoyed myself. >> your jet was shot down by a missile in vietnam. you almost lost her life. how did it happen, and how did you survive? >> it was august 6th of 72, and we had been on cruise for about 4 1/2 months. it was my second flight, it was just getting dark, and we launched off the carrier. we were a two plane flight. and we went out for trucks that were moving in south vietnam, to south vietnam to invade the south. and we wanted to stop them. and i rolled in, it was pitch dark, and that was a savior for me. rolled over and dropped two bombs. when i pulled off i had two missiles, family. i saw the first one and i was able to avoid it. they go so fast, you try to turn it. but the second one came up behind me and blew off my left wing. i ejected about 2000 feet above

the ground straight down. had the rice patties in the swing. and the fun started. i was in a place 150 miles north of the dmz, 21 miles inland in a place i was told no americans were ever seen in the 10 years that were shot down. so it was a transition. and then during the six hours i was on the round and lost radios, we had a little handheld radio, and there is no rescue without them. i had to sneak back through where all these guys were standing, going around in the dark, and i found one and retreated a second time. i turned the helicopter back the first time because it was too dangerous. and one time i was going through the rice patties and i got up on the little division between the two to make less noise when two soldiers found. i play dead, they stuck me in the back of the gun several times to get me to get up, and

i thought was incapacitated because i didn't move. i went off to get help from other guys, guys or about 40 yards away. i got up and took off under a hail of gunfire. all i said on the radio as you can't believe what i just went through. the night went like that all night long. finally brought in a helicopter before daylight. i am 6'2". i can't hide among the vietnamese in an open field rice paddy. and they came in under a hail of gunfire and i hoped on the cable to be hauled up, and of course the noise is deafening. and nothing happened. i looked in the helicopter and it had landed in the mud. i couldn't get in because the struts were extended because it was holding power and it keeps it from sinking. i will never forget the image of doug anthony, he is one of the gunners in the back. he reaches over this hot gun he had been firing and reaches over and says come on, come on, and grabs the back of my flight suit and pulled me in.

>> you two were part of the squadrons that rescued jim. do you remember what went through your mind when you found out he was missing? >> when it first happened, what we hear, we were on the launch, and what we hear is beeper beeper come up voice. when we hear that we don't know who is down. and that'll make an announcement to who is down. so you are trying to figure out who it could be. but then it is just trying to do the best you can. and we were armed. we had 20 millimeters. we had bombs. we couldn't pinpoint exactly where he was, and we were going to throw bombs down there. on the chance that we would hit and instead. so we made a number of passes. we were on site for quite a while.

then we went offshore, refueled , went back, same thing. circle , try and put out fire. they didn't want more missiles, that i recall. they didn't have a lot of aaa. most of it was pretty small arm stuff. so it was really hard to pinpoint who to shoot and who not to shoot. >> what an experience. what a brotherhood. what does service mean to you? >> well, your shipmates become firmly family. on that particular night, i was not on the flight schedule at that time. so i with the rest of the pilots in the squadron were sitting in the ready room listening for any information we had, because ultimately we knew that our squadron had a downed aircraft. and we can't do anything about it. it's not like in the movies,

you don't just run up and grab an airplane and go. you have three on the flight schedule. >> my gosh. how do we as everyday americans, as civilians, we talk about honoring veterans. but we certainly don't do it enough area how can we honor veterans in our daily lives? >> i think this program that is come together with xfinity, with honoring us, as all of us can realize that it is been over 50 years since we were in vietnam. and when we came home it was a different scenario. no one wanted us to fight, no one wanted the protection. but freedom doesn't come free. freedom costs. there is a price for freedom. and we all came together to make sure everybody was able to live that life of freedom. so i think we all can say right now the world is a better place because of us. >> i am so honored you are here with me tonight. thank you so, so much. jack, jim, bill, thank you for

your service, thank you for joining me tonight. this campaign is fantastic and i am honored we had to showcase at this evening. >> we are honored. >> thank you for having us. >> we will be right back. back. when migraine strikes, you're faced with a choice. accept the trade offs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose quickly stops migraine in its tracks. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with you.

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shell. powering progress. >> thank you so much for tuning in, i wish you all a good night. remember, you can watch the nightcap most fridays and saturdays 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. but for now i am signing off, from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying the power of protest then and now. as police move in