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driver plowed her car into a birthday party in detroit killing an 18 -- eight-year-old girl and her five-year-old brother. the driver was arrested. 15 people killed in a tram accident. universal studios hollywood. los angeles fire officials say one person was critically hurt. officials are investigating what led to the crash. universal studios is owned by the same parent company as msnbc. today, hundreds taking apart in a fifth day protest at columbus university over the war in gaza. three people were arrested saturday. more than 100 have been arrested since the protest started on wednesday. the protests are spreading. students have set up their own encampments in solidarity with

columbia at dozens of universities including yale and unc chapel hill. one of the two reporters who wrote the original stormy daniels hush money payment joins me next. he is going to give us his take on what could be the biggest flashpoints in the trial. a day, everyone, from msnbc world headquarters in new york. developing 40 this hour, new reaction and fallout today after the house passed $95 billion in foreign aid including for ukraine. earlier today on msnbc's meet the press ukrainian president zelensky had an urgent message for the senate as they prepared to take up the package this week. >> today, we definitely need this aid and, kristin, you know, really needs to get this to the final point. we need to get this by the senate and then we want to get things as fast as possible so that we get some tangible assistance for the soldiers on

the front line as soon as possible, not in another six months, so that they would be able to move ahead. >> well, the foreign aid radiating new questions today on whether some house republicans will trigger a motion to vacate speaker mike johnson. congressman marjorie taylor greene escalating that threat today. >> mike johnson speakership is over. he needs to do the right thing to resign and allow us to move forward in a controlled process. if he doesn't do so, he will be vacated. >> does this mean you will file the motion at some point? >> it is coming regardless of what mike johnson decides to do. >> a brand-new poll gives a fresh look at the presidential race and finds trump narrowly ahead of biden by two points in a head-to-head matchup. that being 46 to 44%. that is down from trumps five-

point lead in january. the poll shows 42% approve president biden's overall job also up five point since january. let's go to capitol hill. what is the fallout looking like after passing the house for need bills? >> reporter: there is a lot of pressure on johnson right now. he knew this was coming when he decided to put ukraine aid on the floor despite all of the calls from conservative hardliners asking him not to do so. the vote breakdown yesterday specifically on the aid to ukraine was telling because this was the only bill in the series of four that you actually saw less republicans supported than democrats did. that is something that these hardliners like marjorie taylor greene are going to hang onto them .2 as they consider their next steps as they plot whether to really kick johnson out of the speakership chair. despite all of this, there is a lot of bipartisan support for johnson. people sing today that he did the right thing. that him putting aid to ukraine on the floor only raises his

credentials with republicans and democrats and, remember, because of the tight margins in the house you are going to need democrats to come out and support to save johnson and you are going to also see republicans do the same. take a listen to what congressman mike mccall had to say. he's a top congressman. and also a democrat here on capitol hill. >> i think the stock in mike johnson has gone way up. the respect for him has gone way up because he did the right thing, irrespective of his job. that garnered a lot of respect. also from the democrat side. >> i give him credit for doing this. i would vote to table any motion to vacate him. i'm a progressive democrat and i think you would have a few progressive democrats doing that and i disagree with speaker johnson on many issues and have been critical of him but he did the right thing here and he deserves to keep his job

until the end of this term. so, he might be safe if they bring a motion to vacate him to kick them out but one of the arguments that these hardliners have made to me yesterday, for example, congressman thomas said even if he does survive he's not going to get re- elected come january to a hypothetical speakership position or a minority lead position as a republican because democrats built him out on this foe. >> you heard us come we played that sound at the top of the show there. is there a sense of when she is planning to push the motion to vacate? >> no, there is no timeline. to take this one step further, everyone was watching her to see what she would do yesterday on the floor after these votes. it was clear she wasn't going to try something there. there was a hesitancy even from these three members, especially the other two who are joining her effort here because they saw what a circus this was back in the fall when hakeem jeffries, the democratic leader, actually ended up getting more votes on the floor than any candidate for speaker on the republican side being so close to an election, they really do not want this process to play out publicly. that is why you are hearing calls from them to have johnson resign so that they can figure this out in a closed door

setting and conference. that being said, you remember our viewers do too back in the fall and they had to go multiple ballots behind closed doors because they could not coalesce around a single republican candidate. that is where johnson came in at the 11th hour and i asked these three hardliners who they want to see instead, they don't have an answer. >> one more question. with republican mike gallagher officially resigning now that leaves a razor throw-in gop majority. can you explain how razor thin it is? >> a one seat majority. they do not have that many seats to begin with. they had five at this time last year when kevin mccarthy still had the gavel. now they're down to one. gallagher is not the only one who is resigned. you have this flow of resignations including mccarthy when he got ousted. many republicans sick and tired of the dysfunction in this place especially among the republican party. you have seen a lot of nasty comments today on the sunday shows. tony gonzalez from texas

calling out matt gates, calling out his past experiences that he is currently being investigated for in the ethics committee. gates is one of those people that is potentially writing to kick johnson out as well because he is unhappy with the aid to ukraine but without any border funding. this is really getting messy. it was already messy. it's getting even messier. with the one seat majority certainly they do not have a lot of room to work with and that is exactly why you saw johnson put pills on the floor. when your leadership, you realize that the only way you're going to be get anything done in this place. >> yes, okay. julie from the capital. thank you, my friend. stomach coming up later, tim kaine, he is going to join me with his reaction to the ford -- foreign aid funding and his prediction for how the bills could play out in the senate this week. let's go to another history making day and week for donald

trump. the first former president to go on clinical trial. tamara opening statements begin in the hush money trial. also tomorrow, judge arthur will hear an application to revoke the $175 million bond that trump posted in his civil fraud judgment. tuesday, the hush money trial will shift to a contempt motion claiming trump violated the gag order than thursday the supreme court will hear arguments on whether trump is entitled to immunity from prosecution in the january 60 c case. yesterday, stormy weather interrupted trump's first opportunity to riff on his criminal trial. his rally in north carolina canceled due to bad weather. let's go to nbc's jake. how is trump handling the challenges of campaigning while on trial? >> reporter: what started as a stormy week for former president trump turned into a

storm your weekend. it was supposed to be donald trump's first campaign rally since the start of his first criminal trial. he was going to take place in wilmington, north carolina. north carolina, a key swing state, trump nearly carried it over bind and in 2020. it's going to be a significant piece of the puzzle for both of them looking at an electoral path to victory come november. moments before the actual rally took place hundreds of trump supporters gathered around in wilmington. trump called into the loudspeakers to announce that he was canceling the rally due to inclement weather. take a listen. >> as you can see, there is some very bad weather having in. we are flying in a few minutes but they would prefer that we not go in because there is a certain danger to all of this and we want to make sure that everybody is safe, above all. so, they have asked us to ask people to leave the site and seek shelter and what we will do is we will make up for this very quickly at another time. we will do it as quick as possible and we are devastated that this could happen. i'm so sorry. we will do it again and we will

do a bigger and better. >> now, it is not atypical for the former president to host his bigger more raucous rallies on the weekends. it is worth noting the significance of this is that donald trump is not a normal candidate. he doesn't have every day of the week to campaign like a normal candidate would. every monday, tuesday, thursday and friday he will be in manhattan in a courtroom. although he made the promise that he will come back as soon as he can, ultimately, that's going to be within the limits and bounds of the fact that most of the days for the next several weeks he's going to be in a courtroom. >> you are right. thank you very much for the story. it is likely one of these potential witnesses will take the stand first. which one, why, and what might they say next. we are back in 60 seconds. seco.

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a busy week ahead in the trials and tribulations of donald trump. tamara opening statements begin in the new york hush money case. the former president is required to be in court all week also tomorrow and another newer courtroom they will hold a hearing of questions about the $175 million bond posted in the former president civil fraud case. tuesday, they will hold a hearing on trump's potential gag order violations in the hush money case. thursday, another high-stakes showdown with the supreme court hears arguments on trump's claims of presidential immunity. joining me now, jonathan alter, msnbc contributor and author of the old goats newsletter and tristan, former assistant attorney general. let's get into this. while trump is in court for the hush money trial, this week, the bond hearing in the civil fraud case, that could have some meter -- major implications for the former president. is it possible that the judge decides this bond is not valid and would that mean the clock starts ticking again for new york to start seizing trump's assets? >> alex, that is exactly right.

it is a huge threat for donald trump. the blistering brief we got from the office on friday really paints a picture here but i can just cut to the chase on this. there is a lot of other stuff in here about cayman islands, holding companies and all this other stuff. i encourage people to take a look at this document. the real kicker is math. the company that he got to do the bond only has a surplus of $138 million. this is a bond for $175 million but it gets worse. under new york law, an insurer is only allowed to write a risk of up to 10% of that surplus. so, the biggest thing that he could have done here is 13.8 billion. not 175 million. so, there is a very strong case to be made that night does not

have the assets to do this bond and that it should not have been allowed and it won't be allowed and the judge is going to say, nope, you can get a bond, sir, but it's not going to be from them and that is going to potentially result in proceedings taking place to go find assets to cover the judgment. >> so, just the math right there is rather stunning but also, this is an insurer that is not authorized to write business in new york. it is not recognized by new york state. i mean, it just seems like from all sides it is coming out it. anyway, to you, jonathan, because, obviously, it's a big week ahead for trump. you had a seat in the court. as he wrote, your new york times opinion piece, the theme of last week was trump had to sit in a new york courtroom he despises and listened as prospective jurors were not selected trashed him. his opening statements are beginning of this hush tourney -- money trial tomorrow. do you expect trump trashing to remain this theme of the next six weeks?

>> no, i don't think that will be the theme of this trial. a lot of this will be about documents establishing that he engaged in a coverup of a retainer agreement that he claimed falsely to have with michael cohen who worked for him for many years. so, this is going to be a case, actually, much more like a conventional business records case which is what the charges are and there will be some salacious tennis, especially early on, possibly as early as tomorrow. that is because it is expected -- it has not been confirmed, but it is expected that the former chair of american media which owned the national enquirer will be on the stand testifying against trump. >> david yes.

>> david that's who we are talking about. he will describe catch and kill which began in august of 2015 in a meeting with trump and michael cohen and was their effort to pay people who had dirt on donald trump for their stories and they assumed the stories would run in the national enquirer and the national enquirer would skill -- kill those stories on behalf of the then candidate, trump. at that meeting you will hear about tomorrow in all likelihood, and 2015, we are going to hear that, basically, trump wanted david to be his eyes and ears on any stories about him and . >> and not once but twice, by

the way, he was also alleged to have done this with karen mcdougal, the playboy playmate. so, would he be a good choice? would david packer be a good choice to go first? >> i think that being able to tell the story chronologically, it is difficult when then you have to do with different witnesses and their counsel overlap. i think the fact that this stretches back into 2015 does potentially make him an interesting choice here. i would predict we are going to hear from hope hicks very early on in the case. former trump campaign and white house inner circle member, longtime very close staff who was in the room, when it happened, so to speak. he has been on the witness list. i would suspect we will be hearing from her. we will get the contacts that will then set up the october

2016 events in which the payments were made and then they were ultimately covered up , masked as fake invoices for michael cohen. >> hey, if you're going to go back to the beginning, tristan, does that mean you expect to hear from stormy daniels and potentially mcdougall? >> that is also true but i think the prosecutors are going to be well advised to not necessarily make them and their accounts of affairs from trump the centerpiece of this. they really want to focus on the crime rather than on his various peccadilloes. trump is going to try to make this saying, oh, you're putting my private life on trial. you are trying to criminalize the fact that i had these indiscretions, these affairs. >> which he denies. >> right. and then he denies them but he

is also going to be saying you're putting my private life on trial. that's what this is about. it is all a witchhunt. the prosecutors are going to be well advised to really stick to what is the crime being charged here, it is falsifying business records and i think they're going to focus predominantly on that. we are going to be hearing, i think, from daniels and mcdougall regarding the truth of their allegations. their stories, but i think we will be focused on what was the business and political practice that trump was engaging in here because -- and they're really going to have to bring those two together. it was a combination of, look, he was doing this to get the stores to go away and he was doing it for the purpose of covering it up for the american people so that he could get elected in 2016. they need that so they can make the campaign-finance angle of it the other crime that is necessary to elevate the falsification or a felony.

>> yes, good points all them there. interestingly, jonathan, in the final minutes of the trial on friday as donald trump was standing to leave the courtroom, the judge firmly told donald trump, sir, can you please have a seat? that moment has come to represent the stripping of control from a man who used to be the most powerful person in the united states, some could argue in the world. how could you -- how does this impact donald trump's psyche? >> well, first of all, i was in the courtroom when it happened and it was a stunning, dramatic moment. you know, you have a former president of the united states who since the time he was a little boy never listen to anything -- anyone about anything. he was sent to military academy for being disobedient. ever since, he has never sat down when someone told him to. in this case, he had to. he sat down meekly, like the obedient little boy he never was and it was quite striking and i think it symbolizes that he is not the most powerful

person in that courtroom. that honor belongs to his honor, judge juan who the country is becoming increasingly familiar with and he is going to make donald trump face the music. in the overall context of american history, this is the first time in nearly 250 years of our history that the president of the united states is on criminal trial. this is big stuff historically. judge juan merchan is a big figure historically because he is beginning the accountability process as it relates to donald trump. >> i have enjoyed this conversation with both of you. please come back together, separately, but i want to see both again soon. thank you so much.

you may be scrolling through it right now but soon tiktok may run out of time. senator tim kaine joins me next on whether he expects the senate to vote to potentially ban one of the most popular apps on social media. . one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add a new footlong sidekick. like the elite chicken and bacon ranch, with the $2 footlong churro. this is the best sidekick i've ever had. that really hurts my feelings bro. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare—ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri.

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the future of tiktok in the u.s. is in doubt. this week the senate is on track to pass a bill that would ban the popular app if it's chinese owner does not sell it. joining us not from willington, delaware is nbc's aaron gilchrist. how likely is it tiktok band? >> well, that is the question. the white house has made clear that it does not want to see tiktok and in the united states ultimately but it does want the company to sell so that there is not as much accessed by the chinese government to information about americans that is part of the tiktok platform. at the same time, we know that there is one democratic lawmaker who told us in an

election year, they don't want to see an app that is so popular with so many young potential voters go away altogether. still, the boat we saw yesterday in the house really does lay the foundation for tiktok to go away. okay. >> the clock may be taking on tiktok. the house passed a bill to force the apps chinese parent company to sell the platform. they would have nine months to do that and allow the president to extend the deadline by 90 days. if it isn't sold by then, tiktok could be banned in the u.s. it has 70 million active users in the u.s. some of whom have railed against the possibility of a shutdown on the app. >> call them and tell them to stop the van. >> it looks to have enough support in the senate that it will reach the president's

desk. president biden was asked about a ban last month. >> are you considering banning tiktok? >> if they pass it, i will sign it. >> the biden administration has said the app represents a national security threat with the owners having close ties to the chinese government, claims that he is repeatedly denied. tiktok has been ban on federal government devices. the biden presidential campaign has an active account, a space to interact with younger potential voters. >> would be the effect of a band? how it impacted? >> this is uncharted territory in the u.s. we would not be able to update or distribute the app. >> tiktok releasing a statement repeating its criticism of a bill that, quote, would trample the free-speech rights of 170 million americans, devastate 7 million businesses and shutter

a platform that contributes $24 billion to the u.s. economy annually. >> a tiktok ban would absolutely affect the millions of americans that use tiktok to kill time, to watch dance videos, but the real hard part would be for the people who are making those videos. the people who earn their income by either sponsored or add content. >> so, i asked about what exactly it is that tiktok would be selling if it were to sell the tiktok app and the high level tech explanation that i got is that there is an algorithm that is a part of tiktok that is a special sauce and the question becomes does bytedance sell the pasta without the sauce? would anyone want to buy that? does it give away the proprietary algorithm that makes tiktok so special? that something that is yet to be seen. we also know that if in fact after a years time there is not a sale that is coming or has happened already that we could see a band happen here in the united states and whoever's present at that time, whether it is president biden or if trump wins the election they have to deal with the fallout among yo -- young voters and

the users of tiktok. >> i like the way you put that. now i understand it with the special sauce and the pasta. thank you so much for that one. joined me now, democratic senator from virginia, tim kaine. he is the author of a terrific new book, walk, ride, paddle, a life outside. senator, we are going to get to tiktok, the book as well. first, let's talk about the foreign aid package that had been a long time coming. after months of dysfunction. i know you see this as a win. what do you expect will happen tuesday when all four bills are wrapped up into one for the senate to consider? >> i'm very happy with the house action and the bipartisan vote in the house. it took too long to get there. thank god we are here. the senate will come back in on 1:00 on tuesday to take up this single bill. as you point out before goes in the house it will be combined into one. i'm expecting some republicans to use some procedural tools to

try to slow it down but my prediction is by late tuesday night or early wednesday we will passes package with a big bipartisan vote and send it to president biden for signature. you will see that happen this week and not a moment too soon. i'm so glad we will do that. >> how shocked are you that more than half of the gop did not vote in support of aid to ukraine? i'm curious, was his donald trump's influence? was it political to deny president biden a victory or do they have concerns that are legit about u.s. spending? >> i would say it is a couple of things. it's the donald trump influence and what he was urging people to do to not support ukraine. you see that very strongly and some don't support ukraine and some urge over into being apologist for putin. then there's another wing of the republican party that does not want to spend money overseas. they don't want to invest in diplomacy or alliances or international aid. those two groups combined, yes, produce more than half of the

republicans opposing it. then you have to look at the overall though. it was a bipartisan vote. well over two thirds of the house supported it and that's hard to get a mother's day this year. we always knew the votes were there. it was a matter of whether or not there would be a time for a floor vote. >> conversely, on the israel question you had 37 democrats voted no on the aid israel arguing that there needs to be conditions on offensive weapons amid this rising death toll, the humanitarian crisis in gaza. democratic congressman jason who voted for the measure, he told me on the show yesterday that he really struggled with the provision because he had been pushing hard for shift in israeli tactics. do support the protest vote and i'm curious what kind of leverage members of congress are going to have who share these concerns right now. >> these are legit concerns. we are trying to do two things at once that are hard. we are trying to help israel defend itself. the attack shows

there were those with a whole lot of weapons that would wipe out israel if they could. we don't think a defense should be a green light to wage war on gaza or palestine generally. we have been able to use leverage to get israel to dramatically increase the pace of humanitarian aid into gaza and to scale back some of the military operations but it has taken too long and we are not satisfied yet with the degree to which israel is balancing necessary self-defense with protecting innocent civilian life in gaza and on the west banks. we have to do more on that, the administration has shown in the last month that they are more forward leaning on that and when they are, israel responds. israel hasn't responded to private encouragement but when the administration gets public and we push publicly we are tending to see more success.

the key thing is to keep searching for a cease-fire and a hostage release deal. that is what is needed to calm the tension and flood more humanitarian aid into gaza and open up the long-delayed discussion about a future for palestinian economy. >> proof of life as to where those is really hostages are, how many remain alive, who has them, that is a huge issue. is there any intelligence that the united states is able to gather on this to help give that israel and say, okay, this will help in some sort of concession talks or the ability to pause in fighting for a while to extract them and get them home. >> we are sharing the intel we have on this. i've been meeting with hostage families. i think in this current time there was a slowness in getting to a second hostage release deal. there was one in november they won't even give good information about how many hostages are still alive or where they are

or what their house is like. we really need to push hamas. we don't have that much leverage with hamas that we do with qatar and egypt and others who do have more leverage. we are working with turkey to see if turkey can exert leverage the president met with hamas leadership in the last few days. we need to be pushing those who are allies of ours to finally get hostages release because that will produce a cease-fire that will reduce suffering in gaza and reduce escalation throughout the region. we have to push a cease-fire and hostage release. that is the goal right now. >> you saw my colleague report there on the house package that would force the chinese parent company to sell that out within a year or gets banned in the u.s. you think it's the best way to handle the concerns of this really popular social media app and what are you going to tell your constituents if this passes in the senate because president biden says he's going to sign off on the

bill? >> it's part of a national security bill and this is an important national security issue because we know that those who control, bytedance, the owner of tiktok are connected with the chinese party. they use this tool to push this information to americans that they won't allow to be pushed to their own citizens. i can assure everybody here, tiktok is not going to be banned because if this bill gets past the owners of tiktok are going to make a ton of money selling it to people who are connected to the chinese communist party. the owners are going to do fine. they're going to be able to sell this valuable platform and they will get a good price for it. then tiktok will be controlled by those who aren't vacuuming up information about american kids and feeding them disinformation that is being structured to cause them harm. so, i don't think there's any danger that tiktok is going away. i think this bill will make sure it is not controlled by

those who are part of the chinese communist party. >> i've got to get in one more question on this. you are out with this new book, walk, ride, paddle, life outside. i'm about to defy the good manners that my parents taught me about a 40 of the good respective calling you senator or governor or mayor, i feel like i'm getting to know tim. what has inspired this literary and physical endeavor? it's such a great read. it's a level of escapism and getting up to nature. >> two things. i started this amazing journey in virginia to hike the appalachian trail and canoe the james river all within my state. when i turned 60 and when i was celebrating 25 years in public life. i decided senators travel around their states during recess weeks usually in a car or sue. i said i'm going to travel around people powered and without a staff entourage,

without security or price, and just meet why meet and talk about what is on their mind and it was an amazing way to get to know virginians but also the natural beauty of virginia and a much deeper way. i think i also needed it. these were chaotic times and they are polarizing times. it was good to be reminded that while we may be polarized in politics, there are some areas where we are not polarized and respect and love for natural beauty is an area where democratic were politically non- political. we share that. in virginia and across the country. it was helpful to recall that you can sugarcoat the areas where we all polarized you have to broaden your aperture and realize there is a lot of life where we are and against one another but we can appreciate things together. >> okay. it's a great read. i'm enjoying it. my only advice is where your sunscreen when you're paddling in the canoe, okay? that one picture i'm like, yikes, that hurt.

>> i need to do better, mom. thanks. >> that's it. all right, thank you so much. well, it began like this. trump lawyer arranged $130,000 payment for adult film stars silence. next, some fascinating insight. and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own. it's an infection. you need a prescription. nail fungus is a contagious infection. at the first signs, show it to your doctor... ... and ask if jublia is right for you. jublia is a prescription medicine

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now to the 1st news report of the scheme to pay $130,000 in hush money to stormy daniels. was published in the wall street journal on january 12, 2018. this and a series of subsequent reports on the deals made on behalf of former president trump won the 2019 pulitzer prize in national reporting. michael roth, one of those two pulitzer prize-winning co- authors who uncovered and broke the story is joining me right now. he is an investigative reporter with the new york times and co- author of this book published

in 2020, the fixers, the bottom feeders, crooked lawyers, gossip mongers and stars who created the 45th president. the title, michael. got to say. anyway, your first story from six years ago has some fascinating details. you lay out the scheme, you have michael cohen denying, stormy daniels denying, did you know what you discovered? did you ever expect this evidence to be playing out in open court and become the first criminal trial against him? >> we knew it was a big deal because this was the president's lawyer. he wasn't present at the time but he had paid off a star to suppress an essential encounter. that was a big deal. that was right before the election. this was much closer to the president. so, we knew that was going to get a lot of attention but did we know or could i have predicted that trump would now be on trial for that six years

later? absolutely not. i did not know how was going. >> the depth, the range, your teams work on the story, it's one for the history books. i'm curious what it was like investigating this. could you take us to the highs and lows of getting these details in the print? >> it was exciting. we had been -- when you stormy daniels was out there trying to sell her story before the election but we did not know what had happened to her. we were pursuing that for the first year of terms presidency in 2017 and we got a tip at the end of 2017 that really helped us and told us michael cohen had been the one but we had to dig through thousands of shell companies to try to find the one he had used and after that there were all of these quasi- denials. there was all sorts of ups and downs. stormy hiring michael which change the game and it was a

crazy but exciting experience. >> your publisher, rupert murdoch was on friendly terms with trump at the time. what was that like having to try to get this up to the top and get approval? >> truthfully, we did not experience any pushback. the bigger issue was can you report a story about a porn star in the wall -- journal. it was the same things that alvin bragg is saying right now. this isn't a trial about . it's really about money and records and trying to influence an election. >> did you ever feel physically threatened when you are investigating trump? was your security compromise at all? >> no. in fact, -- i mean, it could've been because trump was less likely to attack the wall street journal then he was to

act like jeff bezos in the washington post, for example or other media outlets that he perceived as more liberal. we didn't but, you know, we just kept pressing ahead. >> any chance you'd be called as a witness? >> me? no. definitely not. i would be able to testify. i wasn't directly involved with the actual events. they had plenty of people who can talk about that. >> do you think prosecutors have a slamdunk? do you see ways that donald trump could avoid accountability on this? >> i mean, i don't think it is ever a slamdunk. they do have a strong case because they have records and witnesses who they have the lawyer who negotiated this and they have michael cohen. they have witnesses who are involved who can cooperate stuff and talk about the records

and talk about their interactions with trump but nothing is a slamdunk. you have 12 jurors. trump does have arguments. he is a little bit removed from the actual records that are alleged to been falsified. connecting into that, he could claim you didn't know about it. whether he gets one juror to buy that i have a mistrial, that's possible. >> yes. let's see. david michael cohen, maybe stormy daniels. who do you think would be the most effective witness for the prosecution? >> well, i think michael cohen is going to be the most important one. he was trump's fixer. he was right next to him. he pleaded guilty to federal charges for this hush money deal and another ones. he obviously has credibility issues because of that. he also is the one who's going to be able to tell the story. david is hugely important because he knew trump going back to the 1990s.

he was directly involved in three hush money deals. so, he will also -- he's never spoken publicly about this. he will also be very important. >> he may be first. we will see. >> very good to talk with you. thank you so much. cary lakes says her supporters may have to strap on a clock for the next six months. what prompted her to say that, you will hear her words in my they could be dangerous straight ahead. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. some migraine attacks catch you off guard,

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for the residents now? >> so, what strikes you when you walk into the high school now is how vibrant it is. packed with students doing what every teenager does, what happened that day in 1999, it was terrific. it will never be forgotten. 25 years later, they are still a tight community with a culture of kindness, connection, and pride. >> yes, so pretty. >> preparing a daughter for senior prom is a big moment for any mother. for colorado mom amy over, it is especially emotional. 25 years ago, amy went to her own senior prom at columbine high school, just three days before the mass shooting. >> 25 years later, you have a daughter who is a senior in high school. >> i do. i cannot wait for future. i think that is why get so choked up when i talk about her and my kids because the last time i was normal -- not normal, but amy normal, was prom.

>> on the morning of the shooting, amy stopped by her coaches office to thank him for helping him get a scholarship to play basketball in college. >> i got to give coaches sanders a big hug and a high- five and said see you later, coach. >> three hours later, coach sanders told amy students and others to run. three hours later, he died. >> you look at this much? >> no. >> struggling with grief, she turned down her basketball scholarship. she married and started a family. dropping her kids off at school started panic attacks. >> i'm terrified to lose my children. that's something that i struggle with on a daily basis. >> amy's oldest child says her mother's experience has made her and her siblings more aware of the fragility of life. >> the way i think about it is it happened to my mom. why can't it happened to me?

not every day is guaranteed. >> amy now shares her story with survivors of other mass shootings. >> i don't know i went through columbine. i think i'm here to help. >> you look so pretty. >> this year, helping bree prepare for prom and graduation, amy says she is filled with hope. >> so many people watched what happened at columbine and all of these years later, they probably wonder how you all are. >> it still hurts. it is never going to fully heal but there is hope. i get to watch my kids grow. it is time for the next chapter. you look really beautiful. >> kate snow, nbc news, parker, colorado. from that sobering story have to go to this, why cary lakes is suggesting supporters strap on a glock for 2024. a new book from a national security expert and that's next. next. help you make

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new today, arizona senate candidate kari lake telling veterans to be ready as the 2024 campaign wraps -- ramps up and then she took it one step further. >> the next six months is going to be intense. and we need to strap on our -- let's see, what we want to strap on? we're going to strap on our seatbelt. we are going to put on the armor of god. >> [ applause ] >> and maybe strap on a glock on the side of us, just in case. >> yes, or maybe not. meanwhile, with evangelical christians making up 42% of trump voters in 2020 the groups

power and its radicalism is growing. with me now is elizabeth newman, former senior adviser of the department of homeland security during the trump administration and author of the forthcoming book, kingdom of range, -- rage, the rise of christian extremism and the path back to peace. you know the politicians and other leaders have long used religion for power, for political gain, but you say, quote, during most of my lifetime, extremists were not allowed to participate in mainstream political discussions, they were kept at the fringes of society. is this how people like kari lake can gain prominence, get away with saying the things we just heard her say. are you more concerned with the people saying these things or the people they are speaking to? >> i suppose it is both. we should hold our politicians to a higher standard of ethic, especially after what we saw in 2020. there is no excuse now to not understand that your words do have tremendous power and influence over individuals that might have a propensity to violence. look, we are in about the 10th

year of ever-increasing acts of terrorism and violence in our country and, look, most of those are coming from a racial violence extremists and we also know how -- have a political violence movement that has direct ties to politicians on the right. it's dangerous to see kari lake using that language. most people are not and actually act on it with some small percentage do and those small percentage of people do have outside impact and do cause harm. so, it would be great if politicians would recognize and learn lessons from 2020, their words do matter. >> a poll last year, elizabeth, found that 23% of all americans believe the country was so off- track the true american patriots may have to resort to violence to save our country. that number was 31% among white

evangelical protestants. how do we get here and was already happening before trump came along and augmented it? >> you know, i do think that the roots of what we are experiencing now go back decades. i traced some of this in the book that there were precursor narratives that set us up for a trump -like figure to come on the stage. those narratives are grievance to base. they are coming from a place of perception that you are losing power, you are losing influence and fear, fear that your role in society is being taken away as well as i sat through sermons back in 2012, the 2012 campaign told the pastors would be able to teach the bible in our country anymore if you voted for barack obama. that fear that we'll lose our ability to practice our religion, if you look at the

facts on the ground we have a strong constitution. we have more religious freedom today than we did even 20 years ago. they are not actually fact- based fears but, man, when you have rapid changes in society, it is easy for a strongman like trump to come on stage and take advantage of that fear and say, don't worry, i'm going to protect you. i'm going to make christiana greed again which is what he said a few weeks ago. and it works. he's playing on fear. he's playing on anger and those grievances that were long seated decades ago are now coming to fruition in this space where certain people think, yes, we might have to take violent measures to be able to protect our way of life. that is, i want to say clearly and i point out in the book, not what christianity teaches. >> well, yes. this is why want to ask you this question. this question. ask you this question. how is it that a man like donald trump or does not embody or let me