it is going to be a historic and very busy week. and we will be ready to unpack it all on the weekend, next saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern. los on social media at the weekend msnbc. in the meantime, don't go anywhere because velsi starts right now. ali, we love you. no jacket? >> i have to put my jacket back on. otherwise i can't hear anything. >> alisha had sharp words for me. we are talking just yet. >> don't make me apologize. >> tuesday we will be good.

>> we are shaming latina women on the show. >> alicia and i are but somebody's now. good to see you. have a good day. velshi starts now. good morning, sunday, april 21st. about 24 hours now, opening statements begin in the first ever criminal trial of a former president. tomorrow morning, the republic party's presumptive residential nominee, donald trump will be back in a manhattan courtroom as a defendant facing 34 felony counts. those charges stem from his alleged role in falsifying business records to cover up payments made to suppress a potential scandal, just days before the 2016 presidential election. those opening statements are going to give the public a preview of the case that both

sides intend to present. some court watchers didn't think we would get to this point so soon. there were predictions the jury selection would take a couple -- multiple weeks, considering the defendant is so well-known, so well-connected. and so intimidating. then there were times last week the high-stakes of this historic trial became evident in the court room. more than one prospective juror cried over the anxiety and pressure of participating in these proceedings. and by the end of week one, a full panel of 12 jurors and six alternates were chosen to fulfill their duties as citizens and serve on this jury. the main 12 person jury represents a cross-section of the residents of manhattan. five women, seven men from different neighborhoods across the borough. one of the works in sales, one of them is a teacher, two are attorneys, interestingly enough. to others come from the world of finance. the fact opening statements are set to begin tomorrow is also a testament to how the court

system is keeping things moving despite chubb's efforts to continue to the latest trial. on by the reporter but -- former president slayers at the appeals court to temporarily pause trial into labeling was made on its previous child -- filed motion for a change of venue and an emergency hearing was held for it friday afternoon but ultimately trumps request for a stay was denied. again, early indication of how the former president may continue to try to thwart this trial with procedural roadblocks in the weeks to come. the trial alone makes this a monumental week in american history but this is only one piece of a hugely significant and potentially consequential week for donald trump. in addition to his criminal trial in new york, the former president will also have to contend with battles in various other venues over the course of the week. nearly the same time his criminal trial resumes in manhattan tomorrow, a separate hearing will be held in a different manhattan courtroom involving his civil fraud case. this concerns the legitimacy of the $175 million bond that

jumped up last month. new york state attorney general letisha james is asking the court to void that bond. listen to this, her office said the insurance company the former president uses quote, not authorized to write business in new york. meanwhile on tuesday morning, trumps criminal trial will take up the issue of whether he should be held in contempt for multiple apparent violations of his gag order. prosecutors raise the issue last week at a hearing that will be held on tuesday to address it. perhaps the number one thing the former president might right now be worried for is a case that is scheduled on thursday. on april 25th, thursday, the last day of hearings in the supreme court's current term, the justices will hear oral arguments on the question of presidential immunity. trumps claims he should be granted absolute immunity for any official act he took on his president, the supreme court

cases obviously weighing on his mind right now. you posted on it more than a dozen times over the past couple of days. on his social media site, truth social. it is clear why. it is a wild gamble that has high-stakes and high rewards for the embattled armor president. a case that has few precedents but if the justice -- justices said with him, it could affect one or more of ongoing cases whether his federal election interference case might be able to proceed to trial before november path is crucial residential election. joining me, danny cevallos, criminal defense attorney and legal analyst and jennifer rubin, opinion writer for the washington post and political analyst. she is also author of the book resistance, how women saved democracy from donald trump. a lot of technical matters are going on this week. how do you see them unfold in? >> we have emotions -- motions hearing on the gag order violations. i thought that was a good move to say hundreds of people and we have to get the jury

selection. let's push it off and by then there might be more gag order violations and we can probably consolidate it. tomorrow is the day. jury will get instructions in the morning, this general half hour of instruction and then we get to opening statements. they will not be as long as people may think. this will not be an all-day affair. look for people, the prosecution to only take a be an hour and maybe the defense even less because opening statements are really just a preview. you are talking about the facts you to hear. you don't argue your case. you don't get to do anything other than really offer a factual description of the case. usually in the future, you will hear testimony. but this is also important to note the jeopardy is attached. the jury has been sworn in. though not really, defense attorneys are quick to point out if there's a mistrial, that is not a double jeopardy

situation. mistrial is very real concern because we have already had your attrition and opening statements haven't even begun. >> how do you fix that? how much attrition can you have? there are 12 seated and six alternates, that is the maximum you can have in this kind of case. >> right hear if you lose a juror, and alternate steps in. i think if the court could've had it, they would have 35 alternate jurors because look, we have already burned through jurors and opening statements have not happened. you do lose jurors during a trial for all reasons. sometimes they don't follow rules. i lost a juror because he kept falling asleep. they get tossed. that rarely come i can't think of an instance where a jury gets selected and they change their mind overnight, before the trial actually begins. what if we get more of those. what if this horrific event that happened at the end of the trial on friday, a man letting himself on fire, raised security concerns. >> or just peers. >> they come in monday and say, this is crazy. i never imagined it would be

like this. i have to get off this case. so yes, juror attrition is something everybody is concerned with. a mistrial does mean a retrial, but it does also mean a delay. >> jennifer rubin, the trump team asked for permission to not be in court on thursday, because donald trump has got the supreme court oral arguments. judge mershon said, very important that you are involved in a supreme court case. i would imagine that you would miss that but this is a very important case, too so you are not the mike white either. that said, there are different things attached to each of these cases but that there is a hearing, the oral arguments on whether donald trump immunity is a massive deal. >> absolutely. first of all, judge merchan is put -- imposing on trumps something he's not used to and that is roles. he is not allowed to stand up and leave the court as he tried to do. he's not allowed to grovel. he is not allowed to threaten people. that is why donald trump is very put out these days because

he has to sit there. that is the obligation, a criminal defendant has to be there every single day in a sea. that is wearing on trump and we are all on watch, when is he going to blow up. but as far as the supreme court does, yes, that is absolutely critical. if you recall, both checked in at the district court and appellate court of the d.c. circuit held no, you can't have presidential immunity and get out of any crimes that you commit, while you are in office and the real question i think is not whether they say, there is no immunity because very few people ask that nine votes for that. or even five votes for that. but do they draw some kind of line. do they say, if it is a core responsibility like declaring war or a core responsibility like exercising veto, you can be criminally indicted for that . but other things perhaps, and how they draw that line and how clear it is, so that the case can proceed on remand when it is

returned to judge chutkan is something we are all going to look at and i would keep our eye on those judges that are in the middle, if not moderates. they are in the middle because they are neither on the progress of wing nor on the extreme right wing lunatic side. that would be the chief, that would be judge coney barrett and that would be judge brett kavanaugh. and what they ask and how they appear at the hearing is going to be critical. >> i want to send the case for a second because when it was the appellate court that was, we saw the oral arguments, they were stunningly interesting because most people don't listen to the things you can't see the video on but you her donald trump's lawyer arguing about why the president requires immunity, because he will be penalized by his opponents as soon as he's out of office. the line of questioning came up with the judge about seal team six and assigning somebody -- seal team six to murder someone -- became a question of, as

jennifer rubin says, you can't be held for me and for all things. it seems the appeals court was not convinced of that thing. do you think it would be different if the same argument came up with the supreme court? >> i'm glad you brought up that example because much was made of that. and i might have a slightly different view of that, which is, one of the area -- here's what we know about immunity. in excess but we don't know the full contour of it. and when example that has not been squarely decided, but has to be true, is that generally for acts of war, presidents are immune. presidents like george w. bush. you remember -- famous prosecutor wrote an entire book about prosecuting george w. bush for murder after he got out of office and technically you could do it because murder has a statute of limitations. that you would never do that because on some level we understand there are some areas where there is absolute immunity and immunity that continues after the presidency is over. and distinction would probably

be that acts of war are squarely within the constitutional powers given to the president. so instead, the government is arguing here, and they have to be very nuanced, is saying that look, the absolute immunity that this particular defendant is arguing for does not exist. and they will probably be happy to leave for another day, what extent of immunity implies to a former president after he's out of office. because we all agree there are some things for which a former president must be immune from -- criminal prosecution after he leaves office. the government's position is just, it is not what this president did while he was in office. the former president's argument is essentially, it goes back to a nixon era case which is anything he does with any outer perimeter of presidential axes immune forever. the challenge there is that particular case really only applied to civil liability. it hasn't been extended to criminal responsibility. so the bottom line is, we know

that presidential immunity exists. we know that it exists for some ex-presidents but we don't know the exact converse and that is what the battle is about. i suspect when the smoke clears, there will still be unanswered questions about presidential immunity. >> jennifer rubin, a lot of people don't love this first case in new york. they think it is not the most satisfying. is not the one they would like the most. it is in accounting case. in some cases he wrote this week that this criminal case in manhattan involves trumps quote, only successful voter deception scheme, which is an argument that has made that clear to a lot of people. >> that's right and the people who actually have made it, first of all brad and second of all, the judge. the judge, when he explained the case to the jurors and they make sure that the jurors understand the case, and who are the potential witnesses and so on. he said very clearly, this is about the allegation that

donald trump falsified documents in order to conceal things from the voters before the 2016 election. that is exactly what it is about. it is about, not whether he paid hush money, paying hush money isn't illegal. it is whether paying the hush money and falsifying documents, in furtherance of other crimes, that he crossed the line. and what donald trump has been trying to do, i think, although who knows what he's going to say, is make an argument that this would cover things up because i want to protect my wife. this is about sex. all these sorts of arguments. but the real issue is, did he falsified business documents, that is the books of the trump organization, in order to further some other crime. and in doing so, he really did try to pull the wool over the voters says and it worked. remember, this was right after access hollywood and there will be testimony that trump and the rest of his team were deathly afraid that one more sex scandal might knock them out. it is

hard to remember back then, but we had the capacity to be shot. we hadn't heard the whole crazy we've gotten used to with donald trump. and they had, not unreasonably, the concern that if these other women come forward, there will be no end to it and voters are going to leave us in the dirt and we will be disgraced and loses election. so that is what the case is about. now what is interesting is that for donald trump, most of this is going to be done through cross examination. he only has a couple of witnesses and one of them is himself. and i sincerely doubt his lawyers want to put them on the stand. there's going to be battle royale in that camp about whether trump testifies. >> he keeps saying he's going to pick >> he says he's going to but you have to be nuts which means donald trump may do it. but you have to be not to do it because the man cannot get on

the stand with outlying. is going to sound like an idiot. is going to sound like a pompous jerk. is going to sound like he can do anything he wants. and the jury won't like it so his lawyers are going to be pleading with him, please mr. trump don't take the stand. but most of his case is going to be in cross-examining witnesses and one thing they are going to do in the presentation of the case and opening oral arguments is prepare the jury further weak witnesses. the prosecutor is going to say, you will hear from michael cohen and he has been held responsible for line. he pled guilty to some crimes, but we didn't choose michael cohen, this is the kind of person donald trump hangs out with. that is what you expect when you go up against somebody who is a crook. they are surrounded by other crooks. meanwhile, the prosecutor is going to say, listen, the witnesses you are going to hear from have no ax to grind or the people who work with him like hope hicks, who's completely loyal to him, so you are not only going to have a preview of

what the case is, you're going to have a pre-rebuttal of some of the cross examination that you may see later on in the case. and it is going to be interesting to see, how the prosecution deals with michael cohen and how far they go to prepare the jury for someone, who has had his troubles telling the truth in the past. but nevertheless, they think is a reliable witness in this case, because virtually all of what he had to testify is backed up by documentary evidence. >> i appreciate both of you. that is going to be a very busy week, which we will watch with great interest. dennis analysis criminal defense attorney and legal analyst, jennifer rubin's opinion writer for the washington post and opinion analyst. author of resistance, how women saved democracy from donald trump. former energy secretary ernest moniz was front and center at the table during the iran nuclear deal negotiations.

that is a mama left. he joins me next to talk about the situation we are seeing unfold in the middle east and how it might've been different if donald trump had not withdrawn the united states from that crucial deal. an historic victory for the united auto workers and what it means for union power at a critical time in the labor movement. what happens when you let a handful of megacorporations control the food distribution system. you want to stick around for my interview with the best-selling authors michael pollan and eric saucer about their new documentary. the house approved crucial aid for ukraine. we will hear from the president -- ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. that is on next on velshi. we're talking about cashbackin. not a game. not a game! we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin.

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accelerating its nuclear program. it's been reducing the amount of time until it has a nuclear weapons capability, if that regime chooses that route. according to the un nuclear watchdog that inspects iran's enrichment plans, iran is enriching uranium up to 60% purity. according to the international atomic agency definition, that means iran has enough material theoretically, for two new your weapons. and what is even more concerning is that as writers reports, iran's so-called breakouts time, the time it would need to produce enough weapons grade uranium for a nuclear bomb, is close to zero. likely, a matter of weeks, or days. you might be thinking to yourself, a nuclear armed iran could threaten so many countries, why would anyone figure out or attempt to keep iran at bay. the answer is, they did. we did. and it was working. until the united states under donald trump and under immense pressure from benjamin netanyahu, let it fall apart.

that mechanism was, the joint conference of plan of action, the jc poa or commonly known as the iran nuclear deal. in 2015 after nearly a decade of negotiations, the u.s., uk, china, france, russia, germany, signed on to the jc poa that loosens sanctions on iran in exchange for strict limits on the country's nuclear program. the goal of the deal was to prevent iran from reviving its nuclear weapons program. that the agreement did more than that. it opened up a line of communication between the signatories of the deal, and iran. the jcpoa was a multilateral diplomacy tool which helped reduce the prospects of conflict between iran and its rivals in the region. it is widely considered one of president obama's most important international diplomacy achievements.

for all intents and purposes, the deal was working. in 2016 and 2017 the international atomic energy agency certified that iran had met its preliminary pledges, agreeing not to produce uranium to the point of nuclear enrichment. but in 2018, president donald trump pulled the u.s. out of the agreement. unraveling the deal, rendering it ineffective and causing a ripple effect for years to come. trump called the deal quote, rotten and one-sided and reinstated devastating backing of oil sanctions on iran that crippled its economy once again. iran and all the other signatories to the deal kept their part of the bargain. america didn't. so in 2019, iran began enriching uranium at higher levels and developed new centrifuges for uranium enrichment. and last year, the united nations inspectors found around was enriching uranium to close to weapons grade levels.

but iran's escalations exploded beyond nuclear development. that is evident in what is happened in the middle east or no. the iranian regime and proxy groups increased regional aggressions. around backed militias have helped fuel insurgencies and civil wars and syria and yemen. iran is now more embattled than -- and it is more emboldened. moderate to existed within the government when the 2015 nuclear deal was thought -- was find are gone. in 2020, a headline uranium parliament was one and while already existing domestic politics had a lot to do with iran's shift in government, many experts say trump owing america out of the deal pushed the hardliners to the front of the iranian regime. and all of this made it nearly impossible for president biden to undo the damage. when biden came into power, negotiating with iran was basically hopeless but wasn't a lack of trying.

the first year of biden's presidency, his administration attempted to resurrect the 2015 nuclear deal but iran refused to engage directly with u.s. diplomats. talks have been stopped for several years. iran has long been a dominant power in the middle east and beyond. the regime influence reaches corners of influence you ever heard of including iran has some powerful friends in countries the rest of the world considers close. russia, china, north korea, three malevolent actors with nuclear power. the 2015 iran nuclear deal built at least some good faith between iran and the west and created an avenue for discussion, avenue for diplomacy without it, america has no gate cheating partner across the table to help settle israel's war with hamas or to bring down the temperature between israel and iran. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. giving you a stronger lawn. smell that freedom, eh? get scotts turf builder rapid grass today, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it.

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before the break i explained how the u.s. withdraw from the iranian nuclear deal in 2018 has not benefited america but resulted in a more emboldened and dangerous around. there's perhaps no one who understands the crucial importance of the deal better than my next guest, dr. ernest moniz served as 13th u.s. secretary of energy under barack obama from 2013 to 2017. as secretary he worked on energy technology innovation, america's nuclear and strategic stability along with then secretary of state john kerry. he was a key negotiator of the iranian nuclear deal, formerly known as a joint conference a plan of action, jcpoa. moniz joins me no. he is professor emeritus at m.i.t. and ceo of the nuclear threat initiative . secretary moniz, good to see you. thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you for having me.

>> the recent events in iran and israel have been conventional, missiles and drones and things like that. there is no nuclear saber rattling at the moment and we don't believe iran has got a nuclear war had capability just yet. what are you alarmed by the escalation, and the role that are not having the relations we could've had with iran, is playing in all of this? >> certainly, and you summarized it very well. before the break. what is often not remembered about the nuclear deal, is that in our view, the most important part was an extraordinary regime of verification and transparency of all of their activities. that is gone. now in addition, as he pointed out, the nuclear activities have brought them very close to the threshold of having nuclear weapons capability. just the

listeners understand, they have enriched 60% of the uranium for that weapon. to give you a flavor, 90% is what is considered to be weapons grade. but at 60%, they have done all but a few percent of the effort needed to get there. that is why the time is so short. and now, the question is, as has been said by a number of iranians over the last month really, will they reconsider the issue of going to having a nuclear explosive or not. so far, we are pretty sure they don't have a nuclear weapon. but my former negotiating partner, dr. sally has said they have essentially all of the technical requirements, demonstrated within iran.

so they could put together a nuclear explosive, fairly soon. >> dr. sally he is an expert that studied at m.i.t. i understand you were at the same time but you did know each other and developed a relationship during the course of negotiations. and those negotiations took many years. the united states got involved toward the end and it was very effective, the u.s. involvement. that closed the deal. i'm looking at a question with john kerry, with you, wendy sherman is in that picture. they were intense negotiations at times, but they happened. what is the value of the relationships that were developed, back then, and how could that help in times of remarkable tensions like we are in right now? >> first of all, to give a flavor of the intensity of the negotiations, secretary carrie,

john kerry and i literally spent the last 17 days in a row, together in vienna, to bring this to a conclusion. now the relationships were very critical. and as you said, we will never know, of course we can do the experiment all over again. but certainly, after president trump terminated the deal, certainly iranian domestic politics took a veer further to the right. and interlocutors like salehi, are certainly , have not been in the government now for a while. so i think a lot of the very open channels that we had, we had a tough negotiations. this was not simple but nevertheless, it was professional. we could get the job done. and they might say, factors that may not seem important, but were critical is that both

-- and salehi got their phd s in the united states. they were fluent in english. this made the relationship much, much easier to bring up hard issues, that isn't the case today, especially since iran, after the termination of the agreement, ron basically refused to have direct discussions between the united states and iran. they've all been from intermediaries and that is not the way to get things done. >> especially not in urgent times and present times where there is a real threat of violence around the world. secretary, thanks for the hard work you put in back then and i hope it is not for not. there is a possibility, slim, but there is a possibility we can get into this direct relationship with iran one day and calm things down. ernest moniz is former energy secretary during the obama administration and cochair and ceo of the nuclear threat initiative.

up next, nypd officers and in riot gear shut up to a fourth day of protests at columbia university in new york city last night. two days after more than 100 palestinian student protesters were arrested on campus. we will have the latest, next. . ♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪

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that was the scene last night at columbia university in new york city. student protesters standing behind barricades, peacefully chanting and waving flags. i want to emphasize, because you've probably been hearing about this. the demonstrations have been entirely peaceful. opposite them, dozens of nypd police officers in full riot gear. two days before, columbia university's president asked

the nypd to break up a tent encampment that student set up a date earlier on the south lawn in support of the people of gaza. police rolled through and arrested 113 people, mostly students. one student said protesters were sitting in a circle linking arms when they were detained. they were zip tied, hauled into police fans and taken to city jails. columbia's president said police ignored multiple written and verbal warnings and were trespassing and damaging property. the nypd commissioner said students arrested were quote, peaceful and did not resist, end quote. in a statement, columbia university said all university students participating in the encampment have been informed that they are suspended. at this time, participants in the encampment are not authorized to be on university property and are trespassing. the arrest at columbia comes the same week the university of southern california canceled

his student valedictorian commencement speech. she is a first generation south asian moslem that is pro- palestinian. decided security concerns as the reason for canceling her speech after backlash for canceling her address, usc canceled all outside speakers. for this year's commencement speeches. that is some courage for you. tonight, -- joins my colleague to discuss the cancellation of her commencement speech and broader discussion about free speech on campus. we will be right back. back.

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read as resistance. here's the next few velshi book club features. the glass castle, the giver by lois lowry, dragon wings. catch-22 by joseph heller and tango makes three by justin richardson and peter parnell. maximum i act by james patterson and the poet x by elizabeth. we will post the list on x, formerly twitter as well. until then, -- get your copy wherever books are sold. send your reactions, comments and questions for the authors to my story at velshi.com. i want to hear what problems you had with it. what do you think it should be restricted by age. i want to hear him everything because it is a real book club. coming up, in the past they expose ugly truths about what

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our food is grown and who grows it to how it is processed and sold to what happens in our bodies when we eat it. blue systems are incredibly complex. 10 years ago a documentary called food thanks made waves. where the food comes from and the effect that food has on people, animals and the land involved. and since the film was released, the same problems have remained and in he woods emerged, for example the agriculture industry accounts for third of the world's greenhouse gases, second only to transportation. and whereas the world has long struggled with hunger and malnutrition, and still does, today a rapidly increasing number of people are struggling with obesity. within 10 years experts say more than half the world's population will likely be overweight or obese. and their issues like this, how is it possible a worker at a fast food restaurant like taco bell can make the same wages in a year as the ceo of that company makes in hour. how is that acceptable that the people who grow and pick the most nutritious food are

routinely exploited and paid below a living wage. why is it that so much of the food we are offered as ultra process to the point our bodies don't actually know how to metabolize it. and looking at all of the interrelated glaring issues with our system, is anyone actually trying to change it? now the sequel to food inc. call to food, inc. 2 dives into the mechanisms of control over what we eat. the film uncovers some of the consequences of rapid consolidation of these industries, how they control the markets, how they leverage their monetary power to control policy and exploit both workers and consumers to maximize profits.'s but the food industry is dominated by a small handful of very large and very powerful companies. in normal times, the power of the food industry, the monopolies that dominate it, is invisible to most of us. but when the pandemic hits, the

curtain was peeled back. and you begin to see that the highly efficient and consolidated food system is a very brittle system. >> 20 me, the producers, michael pollan and eric schlosser. michael pollan is best-selling author of this is your mind on plants. eric schlosser is best- selling author of fast food nation. gentlemen, great to see you. i have been looking forward to this discussion since we screened this show, and i was very excited to bring it to our viewers. i know that velshi -- food, inc. turn people into vegetarians and vegans and i was worried , given my very debt -- buried diet that you would wreck something for me. but this is a different film, it didn't talk about the same things, it talked about food production, the control over food production, the people who create the food, and how they

fit into the infrastructure. it is a very different thesis. >> our goal was to see how things had changed since 2008 when the first food, inc. cannot. and things change a lot. concentration of these companies have gotten worse. their power is more evident than ever. during the pandemic, we witnessed that when tyson essentially forced the president of the united states to issue an executive order reopening their production lines. even though these places had become superspreaders. of covid. and the other big change that has gone on, is the rise of what is called ultra processed food. these are foods that are highly processed, have emulsifiers and colors and various additives that as you suggest the body doesn't know what to do with. and it has become 70%, approximately, of the diet and it is linked to something like 52 different diseases and disorders. so it's sad to say, food, inc.,

which we thought would improve things, did not exactly do that and in many ways , things have gotten worse. but there are ways in which things have gotten better, too. and that is that now, the movement to reform the food system has very powerful allies, that it did not have, particularly in in washington. >> eric, want to take the conversation about hyper processed foods further because they constitute a very big part of my diet. one study featured in the film, focus on artificial sweeteners and how the body metabolizes them. it is important to me because i'm a guy that drinks sugar free sweetened drinks. the study basically found our bodies expect, as they find in a natural whole foods, a correlation between sweetness and the energy or calories that sweetness provides. minnesota for instance is supersweet, using artificial synthetic sweeteners, and doesn't have calories, it

actually confuses the body and the body behaves in an unusual way, learning to store fuel or learning to store fat. talk to me about this and the larger pattern this speaks to the. >> right now, nobody has ever eaten the food that we are eating or drunk these sorts of artificially sweetened sodas. for thousands of years, we relied on taste and instincts to understand what we needed to eat. and these companies, very carefully formulate these taste , the levels of fat, and make you want to eat them again and again and again. when you look at the label for these ultra processed foods, you see all these chemical names, that you would never have in your kitchen, and we want to have you around for a long time, so i'm not going to encourage you to eat any specific diet, to the degree you are eating these industrial foods, these foods that you could never make in your own

kitchen. the science has shown you are putting your health at risk. >> that is a good way to think about it because i had a lot of stuff you can ever make in the kitchen. michael, want to dish i don't want to spoil the book but it has a nice ending. it makes you feel better about the world, not worse, but on the way there, you shed a lot of tears and one of them is about fast food workers. let's play this piece of the film and then talk about it on the other side. >> most people say these jobs are for people that are just starting out. but the average fast food worker is a 30-year-old woman. not a kid. this is someone's mother. someone's sister. trying to make it to feed their family. the cost of living is steadily going up. but our wages aren't. how can i go to work for these billion-dollar companies and feed all these people. all to mom, and hear my son's

stomach growl. >> $4. >> $13.97. >> already. >> i do not get sick leave. i do not get health care. as an adult, i've never been able to afford to see the doctor. i'm tired. and nobody knows how tired i am except for the people who go through it just like me. >> that was difficult for me to watch. i wanted the viewers to see that, michael. that fast food worker at a major corporation, a company that serves a lot of food every day to a lot of people, for a good deal by the way, it is very low- price. and that the front end, when you meet that woman, she is not

paid enough and has never been able to afford to go to the doctor and doesn't have health care and on the back end, the people picking that stuff going into the food are not being paid enough and don't get health care and don't get to go to the doctor. >> and we call them essential workers. remember that term from the pandemic. but we don't treat them that way. they are terribly exploited and you know, food is cheap as you suggest but it is artificially cheap. the reason they can charge so little is because the public, the taxpayer is, you know, paying for health care for a person like that, paying for food stamps for a person like that. we are all subsidizing these companies, in their exploitation of these workers. and it is absolutely unforgivable. as you said in the intro, a worker like that woman is earning the same in an hour, as the president earned station i'm sorry, earning the same in a year as the president is

earning in minutes. and we've never had inequality at this level, and it is as bad in the food system as anywhere. and these people are doing essential work for us. they are feeding us. what could be more fundamental, and yet we don't show our appreciation. >> eric, want to talk about consolidation in this industry. the number of companies, a very big effort, something i learned in the film is that the food industry spends more on lobbying than the defense industry. four companies control 85% of beef processing, three companies control 83% of cold cereal, two companies control 70% of sodas, two companies control 80% of baby formula, which we learned about during the pandemic, all the sudden why there's no baby formula on the shelves and you learn it is not a secure, robust system.

this is why we have antitrust laws because when two companies control something, much can go wrong. the least of which is higher prices for consumers. >> and when you have four companies controlling more than 40% of the market, you really don't have a competitive market anymore. we had trusts and monopolies in the late 19th century, early 20th century and what most people don't realize is the antitrust enforcement in the 20th century really gave us competitive markets in one sector after another. before ronald reagan took office in the beef industry, you mentioned four companies control 85% of the beef in the united states. before ronald reagan took over it was about four companies controlling 23, 25% of the market. so since 1980 we have seen one sector of the economy after another, being taken over by oligopolies, by monopolies and when you have that, you get inequality. these companies hold onto the profits and the amount of money being paid out to workers, the made -- money paid to ranchers

and farmers is reduced. and this is a fundamental threat to democracy. it is as simple as that. the biden administration, some republicans in congress understand this. but if we don't make a change, just look at boeing, there were three companies in the united states that made passenger aircraft in the 1970s and now there's one and you just look at their behavior, the arrogance and incompetence and lack of innovation that comes with the sort of monopoly power. when you talk about food, the consequences are even greater than when you talk about an airliner. >> that's right, you can avoid a plaintiff you need two. cannot avoid your feet. i cannot recommend this film more than dish i will keep doing it. i will keep recommending it. it is outstanding, it is important. your last film was important, this is perhaps even more so. michael pollan and eric schlosser, are producers of the new nt