welcome back to the weekend. we will begin this hour with the first time the house passed assistance to ukraine and more than six months. on saturday, members of congress approved a 60 billion- dollar lifeline to the war-torn country and it is part of a

more broad 95 billion-dollar package. it also included aid to israel and the indo-pacific. senate majority leader chuck schumer will hold a vote on the bill as soon as tuesday before sending them to the president's desk. joining us is the secretary general of nato, the nato. thank you for being with us today. >> thank you for having me. >> mr. secretary, i'm curious of the news of yesterday is being received by nato allies. >> nato allies or does it is important that ukraine get the support they need and the package from the united states will help them to shoot down the russian missiles and defend themselves on the front line and to conduct deep strikes against the russian military. it is demonstrating the u.s.'s

commitment to ukraine. >> mr. secretary, you noted in an interview with politico that nato has air defense systems ready for ukraine. can you talk more about that, what that looks like and how will be put into place given the vote yesterday and the house and the seemingly important movement toward shoring up ukraine as we get ready for a potential summer offensive by russia? >> all nato defense ministers met on friday together with president volodymyr zelenskyy and there is an urgent need for more defense. and ministers agreed. therefore, allies are stepping up the operation of different types of air defense systems to ukraine. germany has already decided on

the most advanced and most capable air defense system and there is a wide range and are all contributing to the protection of ukrainian skies and allies are stepping up and will deliver more. i expect new announcements. and the u.s. package is part of the strength for ukraine and air defense. this is critical. if russia gets control over the airspace, ukraine will be a difficult decision. >> is it too late for ukraine? the aid is on the way. it will be there soon. given the dire straits in the country, is it too late? will be aid arrive in time to make a difference? >> it is not too late. but there has been consequences

and ukrainian for months has said 1-5-5-10. it depends. russia has more ammunition. and we have seen fewer russian missiles, drones have been shut down simply because they lack the air defense system. it is not too late. ukraine has an enormous skill defending the country. we have to member that we started at the beginning of the war. most experts believe russia will take kyiv within days and ukraine within weeks. that has not happened. they have limited 50% of the land. they are able to shoot down russian missiles and conduct deep strikes and open a corridor in the black sea.

we delivered weapons. >> mr. secretary, you have our former president, currently, unelected private citizen meeting with the president of poland. i want to read you something from nbc news. they had discussed her proposal that nato members spend at least 3% of their gross domestic product, the gdp, on defense. the current minimum target is 2%. i want to know what it says to you that you have the president of poland meeting with an unelected private u.s. citizen and discussing nato in this way, given the things the former president has said about nato. >> it is on exactly what nato countries come when they are meeting. what matters is sweetie all agree we need to invest more in

defense and that is the reason why the latest summit agreed not to strive towards spending 2% of gdp as it appears in the language. but stated clearly 2% of gdp is at minimum. the good news is that this year, i expect 20 or more nato allies to invest more than 2% of gdp on the fence. and to support ukraine. half of the military support to ukraine comes from known u.s. allies. canada and european allies. if you add economic support and millions of ukrainian refugees and ukraine, european allies are paying a higher economic price to support ukraine in the united states. and standing together and

protecting each other and providing support to ukraine. >> mr. secretary, two weeks ago, i believe president biden marked the 75th anniversary of the nato alliance. he referred to it is the greatest military alliance in the history of the world. there is a real split screen between the current president joe biden and his challenger in the u.s. election, donald trump, the former president who has made very clear that he is not a supporter of nato and has threatened to pull out many times when he himself was president. there is a lot of reporting. nbc news is reporting that nato allies are concerned about the prospect of donald trump's return. what is the conversation you are having with the nato allies? and is this something nato is doing on -- if there is no success on november 5th? >> it is important to stay out of the domestic policies.

so we should be a bipartisan issue in the united states as we are in other countries. i cannot comment on different candidates. what i can say is that i expect regardless of the outcome of the u.s. elections, the united states will remain an ally first and foremost because of the security interest of the united states. united states is safer and stronger with nato. and nato has more than 30 allies which is something russia and china don't have it all. and together, 50%. nato is making the u.s. stronger. and second, strong bipartisan

support. we see that in the opinion polls and in u.s. congress. and then the criticism from former president and others have not mainly been against nato but nato allies not spending enough on nato. and that is not changing. the vast majority is spending 2% or more and those not yet a 50%. allies are investing more. and that is the reason for the united states to stay in nato. >> we had a situation with russia with the aid coming to ukraine. the u.s. is also considering sending additional military advisors to ukraine. what is your assessment of the effort? how do you think that plays out

in securing and strengthening ukraine's position when all the other military hardware and elements are in place? >> there is no plan or plans for any nato combat presence in ukraine. but of course, several men and women in uniform at the embassy are getting advice and so on. i think we need to distinguish between people that may be present or are present and combat the presence of the combat forces and plans for any presence of that kind. what you do in ukraine is help them to defend themselves. we have to remember this is launched by russia against ukraine and ukraine has the right to defend themselves and we have the right to help them to do so by providing support.

that, we have to remember military support is providing to ukraine an investment. ukraine is using the weapons to destroy russian combat capability. and that helps to make us more safe. this is something we do in our own interest to support ukraine. >> investing in ukraine is investing in our own security. thank you so much. >> next, donald trump claims he can't get a fair trial in new york. will respond to that unfounded accusation right after the break. this is "the weekend" on msnbc.

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tomorrow, opening statements will begin as we enter week two of donald trump's 2016 election interference trial. judge juan merchan is expected to rule over what the prosecution can ask trump if he takes the stand. tuesday, a hearing is scheduled to assess trump's potential violations of the judge's gag order. joining us as former fbi general counsel andrew wiseman, the former senior member of the

probe and a professor at the new york university school of law and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord, formal principal deputy attorney general for the national security division. they cohost the prosecuting donald trump podcast and they prosecute. trust me, they are good. >> i have not checked out the latest episode. even though i downloaded the podcasts they push to me. have you discussed monday, the podcast? or have you yet to record the episode? >> we did discuss. this was a cool episode. we had robert de niro and glenn close reading parts of the statement of facts that were produced along with the indictment a year ago by alvin bragg and then we broke it down and analyzed what we expected the trial to reveal to prove the facts and a statement of facts. i think it is a nice preview of what we will be hearing next

week. >> these two are hanging out with some new celebrities that they will stop waking up early saturday and sunday morning to hang out with the three of us. >> tomorrow, i understand these are opening statements and not opening arguments. what is the difference? >> from the defense point of view, very little. you will hear a lot of arguments. in terms of statements. if i were one of your viewers, i would not get hung up on that. would anticipate is a huge tug- of-war over michael cohen and essentially whose is see? you will have so many -- so much baggage and in terms of bad acts but has evidence. you will hear the defense saying, this is the heart and soul of the critical key witness of the case and he is a liar. you will hear that over and over from the defense and they will be like, he is their witness.

the state's witness and he is critical to the case. for the state, you will be hearing, he is not the critical witness. there are tons of documents and tons of other witnesses and with respect to michael cohen, why is he here? he is here because of that man. because of donald trump. there will be a bit of a tug-of- war on him. i think from the state's case, you will be hearing about this idea in the media that the star witness will be a misnomer. i think that will be the position. >> i think that is an interesting point. you have got the drama around the witnesses with both stormy daniels and michael cohen and what that looks like and how it plays out. what i also find even more dramatic and certainly more important to how this child is ultimately going to go, is the jury itself. you have any ceballos he reported, regarding trump's

behavior noting trump has built a reputation as a showman. he is an outsized presence physically and rhetorically. performance artist and especially cocky behavior serves trump well it is rallies and in front of the camera. in my experience, juries don't usually appreciate it. i think that is important. is it possible that trump loses the jury before the trial effectively begins? >> i think we saw that in the e. jean carroll trial and i think we saw that in the civil fraud trial, that his behavior in court didn't reflect well on him. it didn't reflect well on him being subject to the rule of law and the process that all other americans are subject to when they are involved in litigation. i think the jurors are making impressions about the defendant from day one. day one was last week. they are watching his demeanor while he is sitting there at the table. there watching how he watches

the witnesses on the stand. is he rolling his eyes or muttering? we know from the previous trials that he sometimes motors loudly and with the intent for the jury to hear it. the jury won't necessarily take that well. it looks like somebody who can't sit still or obey things and if he falls asleep, that does not look good to the jury either. >> sleeping at the table never works. >> are they allowed to take notes in the trial? >> in many ways they are. that is up to the judge and the rules of the court. and since manhattan is not a place where i practice, i'm not sure what judge juan merchan's rules are. i have had judges in d.c. with both the local court in federal court and some that would allow it and some would not. the problem with taking notes is when you get back in the jury room to deliberate, people often feel like notes or proof that they got it right but you can easily make a mistake so that is one reason why sometimes the parties will urge a court, even if it is

permissible, not to allow notetaking. >> along the lines of this, andrew made an important note. i heard you say this, that it is not just michael cohen. i read the statement of facts and the indictment that happened over a year ago. david peeeer residence agreement with the manhattan da's office i think is critical. and perhaps we will hear a lot more about this. and you think maybe even from david pekker himself? >> i would be surprised if he was not a witness and i agree with you that if there is a central witness, he will be a very important narrator. according to the charges in the statement of facts that were referenced, he is in the scheme from day one.

the scheme is hideous according to the d.a. this is donald trump engaged in ground zero of fake news where he is working with the national enquirer not just to catch and kill but to kill bad stories about himself and to disseminate according to the d.a., false information about his adversaries with the complicity of a media outlet. and we may not think the national enquirer -- it is still a media outlet with a vast reach according to the d.a. was working with a political campaign. it may seem we are going to have that robbed and our faces to force us to think about what is going on when you have a political candidate being helped by a media outlet who

should be passionate trying to be fair and balanced. and i think you will see the exact opposite when david pekker testifies about what the scheme was. >> i'm struck by the fact that we were being prepared for the fact that jury selection will take two weeks. you had michael cohen saying it would take three weeks. here has only taken a week. the pace of the trial. i think we are all worried about the sanctity of this jury, given what we are talking about with donald trump. especially with what we have seen from right wing media figures. you have this from politico thursday. prosecutors saying trump has violated his gag order seven more times. the previously asked the judge to hold the former president and contempt. it seems the stakes have gotten higher. they are told people with real lives and real families who are acting in the service of the country and in the service of the state. we have a preview this week of how the tactics can be used to

intimidate and undermine. and i wonder what the lesson is moving into week two. >> jury service is a major burden and is civic obligation regardless of what trial you sit on. particularly, when you are sitting on the first ever trial of a former president. i think what we saw last week, the second day of jury selection, or the day after the first jurors had been selected, one of the jurors got cold feet because she realized the information that had been put out publicly about her allowed her to be identified. after that, judge juan merchan smartly did what i think he should have done before and restricted the news organizations who have been in there following jury selection, restricted them from putting out so much identifying information including from the for current employer and previous employer and descriptions of your parents. in this case, the stakes are even higher for the reasons you

said. we have a defendant here who has gone after witnesses and potential witnesses not only in this trial but previous trials. has gone after judges and has gone after this judge's family members, the judge patients daughter. he has gone after prosecutors, et cetera. and did make comments. and you indicated this. it caused the d.a. to come on multiple grounds, seek the judge to hold trump in contempt of court because comments were directed to jurors. we are asking a lot of citizens and in one way for that reason, i'm glad judge juan merchan seems to be really running a tight ship and making things move. he is not taking any delay tactics. we were surprised about this all happening in one week and we think that is largely to his credit. he won't be sidetracked and hopefully we can get the evidence presented in a timely fashion. hopefully both the d.a. will be concise with what it presents and the judge will not

allow cross examination that really goes too long or is too far up and will keep this moving for all of our sake and the sake of the jurors. >> we need to turn to trump's audacious claim that he has absolute immunity from criminal prosecution. this is "the weekend." mmun

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like, andrew? there is a lot of skepticism on the street. you just talk to people -- i was just talking with symone about how the supreme court will look at this. given your experience and what you know and what you have seen already from the court, what should we be looking for when the hearings are conversations begin in front of the court? >> substance and timing. and timing is really everything. on the substance, i think there is no way that there will be five justices on the supreme court, even the supreme court, who say there is total criminal immunity from federal prosecution for a former president particularly in this situation, even if you can carve out some area where you think a president should have some sort of immunity for instance in conducting foreign

affairs. if there is some small area. it is just not this case. the problem is timing and as we know, the court could have taken this case in december when jack smith asked them to take the case. they could have truly expedited hearing the case. they didn't. they are hearing this thursday which is the very last day of the term, the supreme court term. the last day they could hear it and they could sit on a decision when it is clear there should no longer be a stay of the district court proceedings. i think there is no way that someone is going to find that he is immune from this case. the problem is they continue this day and they don't issue a decision until june which could very well happen. sort of the end of this year's term and then you really may not ever have a criminal case

on the d.c. federal charges before the election. so you may end up with a flowery decision about help presidents are not above the law. but the fact, the supreme court would have rendered donald trump immune from this criminal case. >> okay. >> andrew, i did not know you could just say anything. makeup claims like this is what donald trump on hit his site. if the president doesn't have immunity, you can extort or blackmail the president. if the president doesn't have immunity, nothing more than a ceremonial president really having the courage to do what has to be done for the country. the great michael steele tweeted that and said, for 240 years and 45 presidents, this has never been a problem. maybe you are the problem. since when can you makeup claims of immunity and the

federal court says -- a federal judge says, this is not a thing. sorry. and the supreme court says, we will take it up. since when can you do that? since one? >> i totally agree. the history completely with michael on this. you have donald trump projecting what he is saying. you could have tit-for-tat. that has never happened. we have never had a doctrine of absolute criminal immunity for a president and you do not have one administration going after the other. the reason it happened now is because you have a former president who has been charged for committing crimes before he was in office, while he was in office and after he was in office. a complete pattern of criminality alleged by a whole series of grand juries and four

different jurisdictions. every president before him has managed to do his job without worrying about whether he is going to be criminally prosecuted, a very low bar i should point out. the real issue is the supreme court. the supreme court did he dare not have to take this case and they did not have to continue this day of the district court proceedings. that is the real problem here. everything is on hold for the district court. all the discovery and all pretrial motions and everything. when it goes back to the district court, she has to start where she was in december and then sort of catch up to where she wanted to be. remember that this case was scheduled for trial on march 4th. we may have had a verdict already in that case but for the supreme court. >> we always play the calendar out moving forward and are hopeful to remember what the counter could look like.

being on set with your friend andrew wiseman, we got to chit chat with him and we talked about tuesday's gag order hearing. he is unusually optimistic that it could be consequential. i want to know if you match his optimism. is that a fair characterization? >> yes. >> i think it is consequential in the fact that there will be the judge moving toward a fine. i do not think donald trump on tuesday is going to be thrown into jail to sit there and wait out this trial. i think the way these things would start is, if there is a finding of contempt with a fine and see where things go from there. >> andrew wiseman and mary mccord, as always, thank you for being with us. you can hear much more on prosecuting donald trump, the podcast. scan the qr code on your screen right now to download and listen for free. >> this week, talking about the juries election process and as i mentioned earlier, robert de niro and glenn close and

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the presidential race is tightening. that is according to an nbc news poll. donald chavez at 46% among registered voters and president biden is behind within a close margin of error. this also shows that voter's interest in the 2024 election is at an all-time low at this point in a presidential race. folks, we are talking about registered voters. before we talk about the poll, we want to be clear that the election is more than six months away and this poll is just a snapshot in time of a certain set of votes. >> joining us to break it down is the publisher and executive

director of republican voters against trump. and we are very happy to see you. >> give us the idea on where we are with polling and where we should be looking at it this far out especially when it is national and i'm interested in what you are looking for with what you call normally republicans. >> right now what is happening is a lot of the frustration from voters has been directed at the president. joe biden is top of mind for them. when they are frustrated about immigration or crime or the economy, they blame joe biden. however, what is happening now is we are starting to see the shift as donald trump comes back in the focus. they have sort of forgotten about trump. he is on truth social bleeding out nonsense that people don't follow. as he comes back into the

consciousness, it is realized the braces happening between his two men. for a long time, i think people were in denial that it would be between joe biden and donald trump again. but as a tune in and see this is what is happening, they remember how much they dislike donald trump so it makes sense to me that you are starting to see that gap close. one of the things interesting to me about the race is that because they are both functionally incumbents and people know everything they need to know about these men, the persuadable voters in this race, in 2024, a really comes down to these people we call the double haters or the double doubters. people who don't love either of them. it is ultimately going to come down to, who do they dislike more? when i listen to swing voters in the focus groups, a lot of times they use the phrase "the lesser of two evils." as trump comes back into focus and people say, i remember. i really dislike him.

i think you will start to see this race shift in its shape. >> talking about shifting in its shape, the republican party has shifted largely because of trump and then you have moments like you had yesterday as reported. you have the proud boys showing up at the rally and the spokesman noting, this is donald trump's america where white nationalists and far right extremists are empowered and working families are left behind. how does that imagery play into what you just said quick certainly for a normal republican like myself it's like, timeout. i'm not doing that. and for all the brothers in the neighborhood, proud boys at the rally, be careful. the reality is that truth, that is trump's america where he embraces and gives confidence to the hate and the vile and

the venom spewed by those in the proud boys and then expect the rest of the country to go, that is okay. it is the normalization of how does this play? >> going back to the earlier question about the normal republicans. these are people who you would think are like us. old school ronald reagan republicans. those of the people for whom the republican party is becoming unrecognizable. what is interesting is if you talk to younger republicans, they came of age in politics with donald trump as a head of the republican party pick they believe the republican party is all these things and they affirmatively want that. people who are older who came to the party for ronald reagan or bush are saying, this is not recognizable and i don't want to be part of the revolution. and they are not democrats. they are not excited about joe biden. they have problems with his policies. donald trump too, one of the

things i think about a lot is if you said to me 10 years ago, the three people in this race are donald trump, joe biden and rfk jr., i would say where's the republican? because donald trump was a limousine liberal. >> independent. >> that is just a testament to how wildly the politics have shifted. a lot of these republicans, they become a big chunk of the swing vote and the question is, will they get there to affirmatively vote for biden? or will they protest votes? i hear different things from these voters all the time. sometimes they say, i will vote down. some of them are rfk curious and some of them, especially some portion of the nikki haley voters really voted against him in the primaries and say, look, joe biden, i have problems with him on policy but i do not want donald trump back in the white house. >> for me, that is just voting for the country at that point. >> so, you know my theory on

the normie republicans or the republicans that don't feel they have the -- if they leave the top of the ticket blank, that is fine. that is my theory. but maybe i'm wrong. if you are republican. i want to be clear. i'm talking about republicans. democrats, you got to vote for joe biden. and talking about republicans. not for you. talking about the republicans. >> here's the thing. i think that a permission structure can be created. >> is there time? >> you just said it. six months is a long time. here's what i think needs to happen and i talk about this a lot. there are generals that worked for donald trump. many people in his administration or his cabinet, his own vice president who will not vote for him again. they have been clear about that. if you believe donald trump is an existential threat to democracy and then your

decision is to say, i'm going to leave it blank, that is a dereliction of duty. we are adults and we can make hard decisions. i think these folks need to come out and say, donald trump is this threat. and as a result, i will vote for the one person who is standing in his way and that helps create is permission structure. i'm a believer that we have to get there and some of these folks are saying, you need to vote for joe biden to stop donald trump. >> you are just so great. thank you for coming in here. and i have to say, poor joe biden. this man is a patriot being compared to the lesser of two evils. and saying. >> tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern, msnbc will have special coverage of the opening statements in the trump trial. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, don't go anywhere. the team will break down the latest in the case. that is tomorrow starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. we will be right back. back.

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fine until you had to go and do that. you all need to understand because symone and i are in agreement here. do not believe this stuff coming out of these folk percent mouths talking about how bad donald trump is. that is not the bar. that is not the bar. the bar, the test is the next question if so who are you voting for come november? you cannot say something or someone as annexes essential threat to you and to the country that you supposedly believe and love and live in and then the next breath go, i'm going to back the person who is a threat to that very thing i love and believe in. don't even pretend anymore. there are a lot of folks out there like that. testing and the selection is not, i don't like donald trump. the next question, who are you voting for? that is where the truth will apply. >> and again, that is why all

this widespread praise, not here on this network, but some people have taken it overboard with speaker johnson and all the things that transpired because of the vote yesterday. you have to ask yourself, is this a moment or is it real movement for the individuals? when it comes to build bar, who if i remind you all, got the job with the trump administration because he was going on fox news in a position that would give donald trump the permission structure to literally commit crimes while in office and a legal theory that he knew donald trump agreed with. that is how bill bar got into the list of the trump administration. i never believed him. i don't trust him. i don't trust the people out here trying to distance themselves from trump because they want to protect their pockets and their bottom line. they want to continue to get their speaking engagement and have their little legal careers and law licenses and they want to continue to be accepted into

the light society cough cough it volga and jared. and yet we don't hear him stand up for democracy. we don't trust you. >> i'm curious if you agree with that the way symone tea did a. if that was a path in, is also about not just the speaking engagements as she rightly said and maintaining relationships but also about some appetite to get back into power with him? >> it may not be necessary to get back in power but it is a form of self-preservation. you don't want to be completely ostracized. you don't want to be like a liz cheney where they just rip up your card and throw you out. you don't want that, which is why i say, you can all try that on me, bring it, baby. because i'm crazy as hell and we are ready to go there if you are ready to go there. that is not every republican. where they think they can get away with that, they will. for guys like bill barr, they

don't want to be in that spot. they want to be trump adjacent and at the same time, blush out what he says and say how awful. but at the next moment, lean into it. and that is what you are seeing here. they are leaning into the support, despite all the -- >> every time i think we can no longer be surprised, here we are all over again. >> as he said, it is on us to ask the second question. coming up at the top of the hour, we are joined by former energy secretary erred -- ernest moniz over the iranian nuclear deal. we will be right back! zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly.

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it is going to be a historic and very busy week. and we will be ready to unpack it all on the weekend, next saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern. los on social media at the weekend msnbc. in the meantime, don't go anywhere because velsi starts right now. ali, we love you. no jacket? >> i have to put my jacket back on. otherwise i can't hear anything. >> alisha had sharp words for me. we are talking just yet. >> don't make me apologize. >> tuesday we will be