thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. let's jump right in. because here's the thing that everybody who hasn't been pay a

lot of attention to this is thinking today. if this trial is about something that happened in the leadup to the election in 2016, not the election this year, not the last presidential election, but the one before that, if this trial is about something that happened in the leadup to the 2016 election eight years ago, why is it only coming to trial now? it turns out that is kind of a funny story. funny in a bad way because it turns out this case springs specifically from one of the worst and most dangerous revelations we ever had about the whole trump presidency. one of the worst things that happened while trump was president, something that for me is absolutely front of mind. when i think about what is the worst that might happen in a second trump administration. and i will tell you why. so, it was almost exactly one year into trump being

president. january, 2018, the wall street journal broke the story that something that looked really illegal happened in the presidential campaign. right before the 2016 election. what the wall street journal reported is that the woman on the right, a porn director and actor named stormy daniels, right before the 2016 campaign, she had been paid $130,000 to not talk about what she says was a sexual encounter with then president trump. the adulterous encounter is one thing. trump denies that it ever happened. but, sex is one thing. money is another thing. this was a presidential campaign. if she got $130,000. if that money was spent for the purpose of the campaign to help trump get elected, there's rules about that. there's criminal laws that apply to that kind of spending and when that story broke in

the wall street journal, michael cohen denied when that payment went to stormy daniels, that donald trump or his campaign or his company had had anything to do with the payment. michael cohen said he had personally paid stormy daniels with his own money out of the goodness of his heart. he didn't have sex with stormy daniels. didn't have anything to do with that. he just paid her himself, personally. nobody else was involved. and he wouldn't say anything else about it. he wouldn't say what the payment was for. but that it was totally legal. nothing to see here. it was all above board. nevertheless, the fbi decided there was something to see. they persuaded a judge there was something to see. they got a court ordered search warrant to search michael cohen's office. and they seized business records and emails and documents. and then, michael cohen was told he was going to be charged

with federal crimes. and then, michael cohen struck a plea deal with federal prosecutors with the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. he pled guilty to campaign finance violations and other charges. he admitted that he had arranged this payment to ms. daniels and to another woman who said she had a nine month long affair with trump. he said he arranged these payments, he coordinated to make sure these women would get paid. to stay quiet about their allegations of infidelity. in order to help trump's presidential campaign. now, when michael cohen pled guilty, president trump responded by calling him a rat. that's nice. when michael cohen pled guilty, he admitted that he hadn't paid out this hush money of his own accord out of the goodness of his heart. he admitted in court filings, he swore in person, in federal court he had been directed to

make these payments by his boss, by donald trump. he effectively said you know, yes, i commit third-degree crime. i committed it in cahoots with my boss. trump was referred to in the court documents as individual one. and michael cohen ahosted in federal court in the commission of the crimes he was pleading guilty to, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. michael cohen had receipts to back this up. he brought copies of the checks given to him to reimburse him for making the illegal payment. checks signed in some cases by donald j. trump. many of them signed while trump was in the white house. it was all an amazing

spectacle. right? many presidents maybe got involved in a campaign finance scandal. but illegal money paid to two mistresses with one of them signed in the white house? a, gross, b, not your typical presidential scandal. like we are already in unprecedented territory here. but that's not the most important point. the federal case, michael cohen coming clean, saying what happened. that left in its wake not just like a slimy trail of yuck don't let the kids read the news anymore. it left in its wake one legitimately baffling question. which was, wait now, who is getting in trouble for this now? who is the one person getting in trouble for this crime? just michael cohen? really? he is going to federal prison for years and he is the only

one? why is he the only one? you know why that was? we now know. it is really bad. it is one of the worse things we learned about donald trump's behavior as president and what he was able to do as president. we tell ourselves all these stories now. thank god there were adults in the room who said no to him. we should be worried if there won't be adults in the room next time. we tell ourselves all these feel good stories. thank goodness the institutions held and he wasn't able to reck the american system of government and the american rule of law the way he wanted to. really? actually in some cases and this is one of them, the so-called adult ins the room did exactly what he wanted and the institutions did not hold. they were corrupted and there were terrible consequences. and that actually is where this case comes from. and why it took so long to get

to trial today in new york city. this was a federal case. when michael cohen pled guilty, the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. he was appoint bid president trump. worked on the trump campaign. one of the things he described in detail was the michael cohen case. after michael cohen pled guilty and was sentenced to three years in prison for this crime, president trump's appointees at the u.s. department of justice

in washington, they started repeatedly reaching down into berman's office to try to make the whole thing go away. this is called holding the line. while michael cohen had pleaded guilty, our office continued to pursue investigations related to other possible campaign finance violations. six months after cohen's guilty plea, barr not only tried to kill the ongoing investigations, but incredibly, he suggested that michael cohen's conviction on campaign finance charges should be reversed. attorney general barr summoned my deputy who was overseeing the cohen case. in late february to challenge the basis of cohen's guilty plea. as well as the reasoning behind

pursuing other financing. until there was sufficient federal interest in pursuing others. the directive attorney general barr gave kuzami, was explicit. not a single investigative step could be taken. not a single document could be reviewed. if they decided there was no legal basis for the charges they would direct us to dismiss the campaign finance guilty pleas of michael cohen. the man who implicated the attorney general's boss, the president. did he think it would bolster trump's defense against impeachment charges? was he trying to ensure that no other trump associates or employees would be charged with

making hush money payments? and perhaps flip on the president? was the goal to ensure that the president not be charged after using office? justice department rules do say for better or for worse, that presidents can't be criminally charged while serving as president. this investigation that brought this case, he says that trump's guys at the u.s. justice department monkeyed with this case. he monkeyed with this investigation to make sure they could never determine that

donald trump committed these crimes. made prosecutors strip out references to trump in the court filings. the document was much more explicit about trump's involvement in cohen's crimes. they wanted to say that trump acted with and coordinated with cohen. they were livid. they made sdny cut down the court filing from 40 pages to

21 pages. they made them strip out all the most damning findings about trump. when they get done wit, the final document said michael cohen had committed his crime acting in concert with and coordinating with trump. with individual one. instead, the final document said michael cohen acted in concert with and coordinated with one or more. one or more members of the trump campaign was trump. berman said he was told they

should bring charges against a democratic lawyer who should be. decided not only had the counsel not done anything to warrant being prosecuted, he actually hadn't done anything at all. he was innocent of what he was accused of. jeff berman had not resigned and he said so. he refused to go. and he did that in part because he had seen what he had done in another u.s. attorney's office. it was in the dc u.s. attorney's office that the schemes went even further. bar and the dc u.s. attorney's office had succeeded in ousting the u.s. attorney there.

and instead, installing his own people. that u.s. attorney's office in dc then immediately moved to drop the charges and undue the guilty plea from trump national security adviser mike flynn. they moved the recommended sentence from roger stone who had been convicted of multiple felonies. they also folded to the pressure to bring charges against obama's white house counsel. that case was so palpablely weak, the jury voted to acquit in less than five hours. that very rarely happens to federal prosecutors but it happened there because there was no case. because trump insisted that the prosecution be brought forward. one u.s. attorney's office looked into it and said are you kidding? there's nothing here. the other one went ahead and did it. because that's what trump demanded. even though there was no case. jeffrey berman saw what had happened in the dc u.s.

attorney's office and he did not want to allow the same thing to happen in sdny. so jeffrey berman fought. barr puts out this press release saying berman has resigned. berman puts out a statement saying oh no i haven't. and there was this dramatic 48 hours in which berman twice refused to quit. refused to let his office be taken over by trump's attorney general. and finally, trump fired jeffrey berman. and the victory berman won in fighting so hard and making so much noise is that after he was fired, he made sure that his deputy, a normal prosecutor was promoted to take his place instead of bill barr. but this is a very bad black mark on the record of the u.s. justice department. and the result of all of this was, you know, terrible drama, scary revelations about the justice department under president trump.

but it was also crucially a federal criminal investigation diverted and delayed and tampered with. the federal criminal investigation into the crimes for which michael cohen went to prison was stymied and here's a key point. it wasn't just the federal criminal investigation, because while all of this was going on, at the federal level, the investigation into michael cohen, the attempted investigation of people beyond cohen who participated in the same crimes, trump, the revelation of trump's personal culpability for the crimes, they reached down and put the brakes on the whole thing. right? a corrupt federal justice department acting to protect the president. it had the effect of stymying a

potential state prosecution as well. prosecuting the crimes taking place, they took place in their city. but, the feds, right, this was supposedly their case. and they asked state prosecutors to hold off while they pursued their federal case in this matter. prosecutors were twiddling their thumbs waiting around for the feds to supposedly finish this investigation which was an investigation that has not actually happened. because of corruption. it was months after cohen's guilty plea they signaled in a court filing that the investigation was over and nobody besides michael cohen would be federally charged. it was literally two weeks later, two weeks after that

quiet admission from the feds that state prosecutors started issuing subpoenas for their own investigation. if you find yourself wondering why alleged crimes that happened in 2016 only are coming to trial now, one of the reasons is donald trump's justice department succeeded in delays and stymying the federal investigations for the crimes he is now facing in new york state trial. that successful effort by trump's justice department to forestall any federal investigation into trump, we can see the legacy of that successful corruption. that successful corruption of the case. we can see the legacy of it in the way the manhattan district attorney has had to charge this case. because one of the big awkward parts of this case that is now being tried in new york is that there is a crime that is being described here that has never actually been charged.

right? people criticize this case. that is often one of the major issues they will take of it. a crime is being described here. but if that crime is such a crime, how come it was never charged? right? the new york da's case against donald trump says these false business records trump created in his real estate business when he disguised the hush money, these are not just a misdemeanor. they are a felony. they were created to conceal another crime. what's the other crime? the da has described what he believes the other crimes are. one of the implicated other crimes is the federal campaign finance violation that prosecutors say michael cohen committed with donald trump. it is an awkwardness for this case that a federal crime was never charged against donald trumpment it was only ever

charged against michael cohen. it was perverted on trump's behalf by trump's appointees. so, that is kind of this big gaping wound sitting at the center of the trial. a constant reminder that it is bonkers that only michael cohen and nobody else ever paid a price for this criminal scheme. right? it is also a constant reminder, you know, of something else and something bigger than this case. it is a big bright flashing warning light about what we as a country should expect in a second trump presidency. you know how scary it is to think about bill barr doing this with ongoing investigations reportedly? with cases already pled to? with sentences that have already been recommended by the justice department after recommendation for him to just take apart the cases on trump's

behalf because trump told him to? they were able to do some of that. they would very much like to do a lot more of that. which could up end any citizen's life in this country at the whim of donald trump. all right? we do not talk nearly enough about what trump succeeded in doing to the u.s. justice department as president. he ousted u.s. attorneys. he got investigations into himself and his attorneys out. he got the sentencing recommendation for roger stone reduced after stone's multiple convictions. he got the justice department to investigate democrats he didn't like even when there was zero case to be made. that is all worse than anything richard nixon ever did and he was pretty bad on that front. it is arguably the worst thing any modern president has ever done to the u.s. justice department. to the rule of law in this country. it is the kind of scandal we

should be keeping front of mind every single day as he tries to get back in the white house. it is absolutely the blueprint for where they would start to try to complete the unfinished business. right? of the first term. if donald trump returns to the white house. that is where this case comes from. right? the tawdriest case imaginable coming from the grossest and pettiest personal failings. all the while revealing a huge serious problem for this country that we have not yet reckoned with. a core problem for our protection of the rule of law. a core failing of the rule of law for which not nearly enough people have gotten in trouble. we got lots more to get to. we'll talk to somebody who was at the courthouse today. just ahead. stay with us. e today. just ahead. stay with us.

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this is the headline. the headline was 72 hours until all held breaks loose. this was the headline on a fund raising email the trump campaign sent on friday. not just predicting but kind of imploring. former president trump's supporters they should show up in new york city at the courthouse for trump's criminal trial this morning. in the fund raising email, if we fail to have a massive outpouring, then all hell will break loose. so again, that went out on friday. did it work? was donald trump able to get that massive outpouring in the streets that he was begging for

today from his supporters? did it work? alas, no. it did not work. this is what it look like outside the courthouse. you can see there's a few trump flags. there's a lot of members of the press. there was noun flag that says trump or death. there was one guy holding a trump 2028 flag which at first glance looks like it might just be a call for trump to say president indefinitely and never leave until you saw the text that says don jr. a monarchy under the trump family. just like americas' founders intended. there was also this truck which circled the courthouse several times. this truck appears to be the same trucker at least, a similarly decorated truck to the one trump posted on his social media account a few weeks ago.

including a decal that shows president biden bound and gagged and tied up like he was being held prisoner in the bed of the truck. so that was there. but, it wasn't a crowd. trump did not get his massive outpours of trump supporters today. he got a few dozen people. not many. there were a bunch of anti- trump protesters though. including these folks gathered behind that banner that says no one is above the law. trump has called on on his supporters to show up and support him. and now at his first criminal trial, he really wants it. he keep asking for it. it does not seem to be happening which on the one hand feels like a relief in terms of security concerns. on the other hand, feels like it has to inflect somehow the dynamic inside that the dynamic outside in the streets is really absolutely a huge disappointment for trump and his campaign. joining us now is lisa rubin

who watched the proceedings live inside the courthouse. i know it has been a long day. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> you are a legal correspondent for us here on msnbc. before that, i know you describe yourself as a recovering lawyer. you are an experienced lawyer. was this is a normal day in court today? >> partially what was extraordinary was how normal it was. i said it was a weird swirl of the mundane and extraordinary throughout the day. we had moments that were blistering in their boringness. even the former president appeared to be bored by them. when jurors were reading off their answers to the jury questionnaire. when someone is not reading the questions to them, it is not the most interesting thing to listen to. there was a lot of argument specific to this case. and to the former president.

and specifically, listening to the da's office outline some of the evidence that they would like to present on which they wanted clarifications was fascinating. because it shows you just how thoroughly they have researched this case and found documents and evidence to support the general scaffolding of the story that michael cohen has told. >> let me ask you about something that happened right at the end of the proceedings today lisa. it was right at the end of the day. they it gives us some sense the scaffolding on which they will build their case. as the unexpected scheduling matter came up, he asked if trump could skip coming to port. this case in which he claims he is immune from prosecution. in this criminal trial, trump is a defendant and required to be in court every day. he is not required to attend any supreme court case.

in fact, he didn't go to the last supreme court case about his eligibility to be on the ballot. it seemed from your notes that what you sent me, it seemed like the judge sort of took not took offense necessarily. but seemed to react strongly to that request from trump's lawyers can you explain? >> there are a couple of things that happened. this is the third request from trump to skip a particular day of trial. to skip trial for his son baron's high school graduation. he also said he doesn't want to have to be here on wednesdays because that is the day the judge traditionally is not going to hold trial and trump wants to be able to go out and campaign and today blanch noted that. and the judge said look, i will try to take wednesdays off but if this thing is moving slowly, i reserve the right to call you back here on wednesday. that is more of a courtesy i do

to you. it was because todd said we don't think we should even have to be here. and he was suggesting they never thought that this case should be heard now. because trump is a candidate for president. and also, because their contention is trump can't get a fair hearing here in manhattan because of all the pretrial publicity. because the judge has ruled on those motions, he was particularly offended by the accusation or the contention they shouldn't have be here. and he reeled back, i'm almost reeling back in my chair. you don't think you have to be here? and he got quiet. if you have ever had a relative like this, the judge is a person who gets quieter as he gets angrier and it is almost scary. that is when he made it very clear trump is required to be in his courtroom by law. this is a state criminal proceeding and despite the fact

he has other legal things going on in front of the united states supreme court, he must be here on april 25th. >> wow. yeah. and you are exactly right. nothing like a family elder. getting yelled at is one thing. there is nothing like a family elder bringing the volume down where all you can do is wait to see if you still have your life at the end of the sentence. i know that feeling. i have been there. so thank you for explaining what happened. lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent. stay hydrated my friend. thank you so much. thank you. i want to turn now to katherine christian. who has lived the life of these prosecutors in court bringing this case today. i really appreciate you making time to be here with us. thank you. >> i'm glad to be here. >> i'm most interested in your

overall impression of how today went. the version i asked, was this a normal day in court? was this the kind of normal proceeding, the kind of yeses and noes you would expect in a typical new york case? does this feel different? >> it was normal. it was interesting some of my colleaguing were shocked. because it is very different in the federal system. the judge is the one who does all of the questioning. it is really much more smoother. in new york state, the attorneys take a part of it. also, in the state system here in new york, there's a lot of preliminary matters that happen right before jury selection. like what you heard this morning. issues about what evidence the prosecutors want to bring in. there is also i think tomorrow is going to happen, something called the sandoval hearing.

what is the sandoval hearing? when a prosecutor wants to cross examine a defendant about pryer convictions, they have to give notice to the defense and the judge will decide which one ifs any the prosecutors can question the defendant about. so, this happens and in a case like this, where you know you have a high profail defendant. there are strong feelings on both sides about him. it will be much more long. a proceeding. you had 96 people brought in. 50 of them self-identify. that is not shocking in a case like this. according to donald trump's lawyer, 80% of them should have self-identified and you only had in manhattan 50 out of 96. it is not bad. and the judge is moving along as fast as he can.

he is a very fair judge and he is a very smart judge and he does move things along quickly. wednesday he has off because he is the presiding judge of manhattan mental health court. in addition to this trial, he has a heavy duty calendar of those cases which requires patience and special attention. so that is why on wednesdays, this court is not in session for the trump trial. >> the pending motions handled by the judge, they were substantiative and interesting. we got to hear arguments about what aspects of x alleged affair could be described in front of the jury. and we got to hear discussion of whether or not the alleged illegal, i will say alleged legal agreement.

the national inquirer publisher, and meetings can be brought in front of the jury. this is interesting stuff. when we have the sandoval hearing you were describing, would you expect that to also be for lay observers, an interesting thing about what is going to happen in the trial about the strength of the evidence? >> yes and what you will see is how fair the judge is. the access hollywood tape many of us have seen and we don't have to describe what donald trump said. he said that cannot be shown to the jury. it is too prejudicial. however, a transcript can be played or read to the jury. he also said that the deposition that was taken in the jean carroll case cannot be shared with the jury. again, too prejudicial. they will ask for a number of prior bad acts.

the general rule is anything beyond ten years is considered too remote. so if they ask for prior bad acts of donald trump beyond that, the judge will probably say no. that is too remote. i don't know what they will ask for. i doubt the judge is going to allow them to ask any questions about the three open indictments. he has a fifth amendment right. and they are three open indictments. they are not convictions. the civil fraud trial, he should be, donald trump could be cross examined. not about he was found liable of falsifying business records. why, because he is charge requested that here. but he might be cross-examined about the fact he was not credible. whether he violated the gag order talking about the judge's court attorney. he certainly, donald trump, to many cross examined about the defamation verdicts. lying about someone.

false statements. jean carroll. and the other verdict, defamation. the prosecutors will ask to cross examine him. that is assuming he testifies. but this is an important hearing because cases, convictions have been reversed because defendants have said i would have testified but for the fact the judge told the prosecutors they could cross examine me about every bad act. so it is a very important decision the judge makes. >> in terms of fairness to the defendant. it is important in terms of those of us watching this in terms of understanding donald trump's past that may be starting to haunt him in court this week for the first time ever. katherine christian, that gave me a really clear sense of what to watch for and what to keep an eye on moving ahead. thank you so much for helping us. >> you're welcome. >> all right, we have much more to come here tonight. stay with us. . stay with us. iling their dogs. good, real food is simple.

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there was a picture on the front page of the national inquirer which does has credibility. they get sued for a lot of money if things are wrong. and there was a picture. all i dade is point out the fact that on the cover there is a picture of him and crazy lee harvey oswald having breakfast. this was a magazine that frankly in many respects should be very respected. i mean, if that was the new york times they would have gotten pulitzer prizes for their reporting. why didn't the national inquirer get the pulitzer prize? >> why didn't the national

inquirer get the pulitzer prize for breaking the big news that ted cruz's dad killed jfk? i mean, you have to admit that's a scoop. would exclusive investigation. just the equirerer. that came after their big scoop that hillary clinton had been caught on camera having gay romp at seedy motel. seedy romp caught on camera at this motel. that was right around the same time they reported on hillary clinton's secret hitman. hillary hitman. they also broke the news hillary clinton was hooked on narcotics. some drugs. and they broke the news of donald trump getting revenge on hillary and her evil puppets. it says muslim obama.

little bloomberg. weird kaine. mob connections. shady billion dollar deals. gay double life! boy, that really does sound like pulitzer material. that was also around the time they broke the big news of hillary clinton's ten deadly secrets that every american must know. her ten deadly secrets. jail clinton now. donald trump says give them the pulitzer prize, of course they should. that was what a publication called the national inquirer gave donald trump during the 2016 election. today, on day one of trump's criminal trial in new york, in which he is accuse of using his business records to cover up a payment to influence the election, prosecutors asked the judge if they could introduce evidence related to trump's arrangement with the national inquirer. an arrangement that didn't just provide the kind of pulitzer

contender journalism i showed you. they described the arrangement between trump an the national inquirer. in 2016 as an unlawful conspiracy to influence a united states election. judge the judge rule head will allow the introduction of that evidence of the scheme donald trump cooked up with the national inquirer of all places. as a legal matter, how does that help the prosecution win their place? why is that legally relevant? that's next. legally relevant? that's next. sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry. sup? -who are you?

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joining us now is someone who was in the courthouse and won a pulitzer prize for her coverage of trump's business record and financial scandals. sue, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> prosecutors got permission from the judge to present evidence at this trial about donald trump's relationship with the national enquirer. to boost his campaign. what is your sense of why this is important to the prosecution's case and what is your sense of how important this evidence is toward potentially winning this case? >> i thought it was really significant. it is hard to say in what will be the most significant thing. because it will depend on the testimony.

but i thought this was significant. because we are not now just going to learn the role that ami had in a very narrow fact here. the stormy daniels payment. the karen richardson payment and the offered payment to the doorman. we are going to learn that donald trump and david went back years. it could be beyond the election in 2016. they had an agreement where david becker would do the catch and kill for stories with donald trump. stories that would never appear. the ones we have heard a lot about. but also that he was somehow involved in stories that involved marco rubio. ted cruz. ben carson. hillary clinton. i don't quite know where that list ends. but i think we will hear a lot more about that relationship. these guys have known each

other for years. they have large estates in palm beach and go back a long time in terms of trading information that went right into the national inquirer. they had a very mutually beneficial relationship for years and i think the jury will hear a lot about that. >> why is that not a story of biased press? and it is instead a story that prosecutors said was effectively an illegal conspiracy? a criminal conspiracy to influence the election? how does money make it a different thing? >> you hear a lot about the national inquirer storying. david has paid a fine already to the federal election commission because he paid them money to karen mcduogal. it was a violation of laws

about corporations interfering in this case. josh steinglass said today and i quote here. there was a deal struck between ama and the defendant to put their thumbs on the scale to reach the flow of information. to really set the table for exactly what donald trump and david were doing. it was a larger scheme. >> suzanne craig. i know it has been a long day. thank you so much for being here. we'll be right back. stay with us. ight back. stay with us. because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty.

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quickly before i go two live events coming up. you can see me in person. kingston new york. i will be talking about my prequel. from university of pennsylvania that is amazing. saturday may 4th in kingston, new york. and thursday, june 13th. and the progressive form. and in houston, texas. tickets are on sale. and that it does it for me, for now. coming up on the second hour.