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weekend. opening statements are set to take place on monday in donald trump's 2016 election interference trial now that a full journey has been seated. the jury consists of seven men and five women with six alternates. the process came with a lot of drama. one juror asked to be taken off the case after your personal information was made public. yesterday, two potential jurors broke down crying during the election process and three others said they were too anxious to serve. joining us as our near times investigative reporter suzanne craig who has been in the courtroom and our msnbc eagle analyst charles coleman. >> what are you guys doing here? you should be at home taking a nap. thank you for being here. >> it is early for me. i have to be down there at 6:00 a.m. >> here is my question. we all watched this minute to minute and we know details about jurors that were

ultimately never ceded. if you are not watching all week, what changed this week? what was the big story out of the courtroom. >> i think it was the difficulty of getting a jury together. we started monday. by tuesday, we had seven seated and wednesday morning, we came in and two overnight changed their mind. one of the reasons was a woman who agreed to do it. her family gasped based on all the information out there even though it was her name. it didn't take much to figure it out for people who knew. so that happened and then there were other jurors who were concerned that the stress was going to be too much. i want to talk about the judge at the outset and this doesn't

normally happen during jury selection but he said to all the jurors when they came in, if you have a reason you don't want to serve, if you feel very strongly about the former president and you just want out of here, if you have a family obligation, you don't have to explain it. so the people left and already made a decision they want to go forward. and then the stress really happened. part of it came when, after the jurors have to answer the questionnaire and they go through 42 questions. it is a lot of questions. after that, the government and the defense each get to question the jurors and some of the questions particularly from the defense were quite poignant. on friday morning, one woman started to cry and said, this is just more stressful then i thought. she had tears. very emotional. she had a private conversation with the judge and she was excused. and then friday, i think it was

around a break for lunch, we got a jury with the alternates. and just as that happened, it felt like it happened in a minute. we got the jury seated. news broke and the overflow room where the reporters were that somebody had set themselves on fire outside the courthouse. just a chill went through the place. that was such a shock. i can't imagine jurors who were seated having heard about it. and i have to wonder now going into monday morning, we have open arguments. jurors will be in the box. we could have someone else say, i can't do this. that is the tension and the emotion which is high all week. when i reflect on that, that is what i think about. >> for me, picking up where sue left off, it is the difference between theory and practice. you are talking about, in theory, which we have been discussing for the last year plus, what it would be like to have the former president of the united states of america on

trial and now we are here and you are understanding the very practical, difficulties, associated with that, not only from the judge keeping order of the courtroom to donald trump literally having the steno to stay awake during the very emotionally taxing task of a full trial day to of course, as sue was talking about, picking the jury. we are no longer discussing things in theory or in the ideological space. this is real. this is happening. this is not a game. and i think the reality of that emotionally is very, very heavy. one thing i have been saying all week is that it is only going to get heavier as things go on. when stormy daniels takes the stand, if michael cohen takes a stand, when these things happen, it will only increase the amount of pressure and stress collectively on everyone who is a stakeholder in the process. that will increase anything that is very different.

>> to both of your points, and i made this point when we were driving in this hour. you sort of laid out the tiktok of what happened in that jury selection process. and then of course, the hours after that you have josie waters on fox news as the daily beast reports sowing doubt in his segment regarding the jurors with a quote "i think at this point, we can say that it won't be an acquittal. what the hell do you have to base that on mr. waters? this is the problem. you are absolutely right that monday morning, you could have jurors come in who are like, i just don't want to be part of this. but that is the point, folks. that is what the josie waters

and trump fans want to have happen. they want to poison the outcome. they want to undermine the system of justice and the risk that these individuals are taking is an important risk but it should be the kind of risk that they sit there like, we have laid out people crying and breaking down because of the stress of sitting on a jury. >> it is interesting because i think that what you said, i think that is unexpected that jesse watters did that. what you are seeing in the courtroom, and donald trump was admonished by the judge for it and i will be watching for more of this. it is the idea. there was one juror who was being questioned and was going to the questionnaire and he was making gestures to her. he was sighing audibly. and the judge said, i don't want to see any more of that sort of jury intimidation again. that is the sort of thing we will be looking for in the courtroom and i think that will be unnerving to some of the

jurors. some of them may shrug it off. everybody is different. we even saw that level of intimidation. you have fox saying what they are saying which i expected it. and then you have donald trump in the courtroom doing something very real to the jurors that can be quite intimidating to them and should not be allowed. >> charles, should the judge have even allowed this questionnaire to have gone through verbally? wouldn't it have protected these potential jurors a little more if they could have written their answers to these questions and then, seeing these transcripts and what people are witnessing in the courtroom, the reporters and donald trump himself, the back and forth about very specific things. and said, folks seem to be just exposing themselves on the stand. the second part of that is, do you think the judge should -- i believe the legal term is sequester but lock the jury

down so they are not going back and being exposed to other folks and potentially in danger? i think that is not a crazy thing to say. >> i don't have a ton of critiques of judge juan merchan at this time. i think parts of the questionnaire should not have been read out loud, particularly things like where people work for example. i think we learned early in the week that that was a mistake and was a bad idea and he did correct that. i think the important thing viewers need to understand is that it is a dangerous line because you can't have a conversation to say that donald trump needs to be treated like every other defendant but then make special rules on how jurors are picked and make it too much of a different process. that is the risk you run and the other direction people might not think about, granted,

in my opinion, donald trump isn't every other defendant. if we wrap our minds around that, it would allow us to take the precautions necessary in order to ensure the integrity of the trial. that being said, to your sequester point, i don't know that we are at that point yet. i think we could get there. >> what would it take to get there? >> what is it going to take us to get there? >> i think what should happen is that at least for the time being, he should be enlisting the protection of the new york state corps officers to make sure that when these people arrived, that they are basically unbothered and they are going their separate entrances and they are kept away from other people. when they go to lunch, they have court officers around them to make sure they are protected and when they go home, they have court officers escorting them home. i don't know if it is a good idea to sequester right now for

six weeks. i do think however, there should be additional methods like the one i described that could potentially protect the jurors. >> i cannot imagine there is not going to be. >> right. >> the notion of full sequestering is something you sort of reserve for the most extreme circumstances. and i understand why people say we are already there but i don't know that we have reached it just yet. >> the courtroom, the overflow room where we are is often frozen because jurors are in the hallway. being careful and mistakes have happened. but being careful to get them in and out without any interaction with the media or any of the parties. i have covered cases where i have gotten into an elevator with jurors or other reporters and it was serious. you don't necessarily realize they are there if the elevator is crowded. i have been called in front of a judge before and asked what

was said in the elevator. it is taking burden -- taken very seriously and they don't want people mingling. i don't know if people realize that. but it is a high-profile case. they always make an effort to keep them apart. when there is any interaction, the judge wants to know exactly what was said. i cannot imagine they are not going to have security for these jurors going in and out. >> i think the details you both shared a really important for folks at home to know and to understand. we have more questions. hopefully suzanne and charles will stick around. we want to discuss how much of donald trump's baggage could be brought up in the actual trial. and we all know he has a lot of baggage. it is "the weekend." we're ta . we're not talking about practice? no... cashbacking. word. we're talking about cashbacking. cashbacking. cashbacking. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback?

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on monday, judge juan merchan will rule on what the prosecution can ask donald trump if he takes the stand at his 2016 election interference trial. in a hearing yesterday, prosecutors sought to post trump on the civil lawsuit and his attacks on women including eugene carol. clump -- trump claims he will testify but the judge's ruling on what he can ask will decide whether or not he takes the

stand. this is on monday. judge juan merchan will rule on this monday and tuesday. he is going to have a hearing because donald trump is still fighting his gag order and prosecutors want to hold trump in contempt for violating the gag order. let's start with the sandoval hearing, charles. what do you expect the judge to say? can you explain to folks who maybe didn't see you earlier this week, how run-of-the-mill normal this hearing is? i have heard people say, why does trump get to hear all the evidence about him to make a decision. people should know that is how the process is. >> we will go to law school for 30 seconds. with this case stood for is that you have to present any uncharged bad acts that you seek to question the defendant about should they take the stand. in this case, just like other

cases, if you try cases in new york state, you will almost always have a sandoval hearing because you want to prepare the other side to know, if you put your guy on the stand, these are the things they will be subject to having to answer questions about. in many cases, it can serve as a helpful tool to a defense attorney when you don't want your client to take the stand. and when you have a client that might be like donald trump who thinks they are bulletproof and they can get on the stand and blow through the testimony. they will have to hear in open court, these are the things the prosecution will be able to ask you. these are the things that they can really probe and go into in front of the jury. you don't have a good answer for these things. if you don't have a good answer, it's probably not a good idea to testify. that is where the sandoval question comes into play and what will happen at the hearing. as far as the gag order itself, what i'm watching for is -- and very curious.

we are in this space where you have the jesse watters of the world and trump decides to retweet them. how much responsibility is judge juan merchan going to be able to put on donald trump for re- tweeting something that someone else said as a violation of the gag order? many in the legal community are very curious about this and it will be something that judge juan merchan one way or the other will have to provide a solid rationale for. >> i am not going to make anyone listen to donald trump this early in the morning. but he has said the gag order has to come off. people are allowed to speak about me and i have a gag order. to show you how much more unfair it is and the conflict has to end with the judge. i increasingly have trouble reading these quotes because the syntax makes no sense. but we knew he was going to use this courthouse as a campaign stop and that the grievance is part of the political strategy. >> he has no choice because he is in court.

if he doesn't show up, there is the potential he could go to jail. what is frustrating to a lot of people i think about him violating the gag order is the fine is not small. you start out where he could end up in jail when he companies to do it. there are small monetary fines. we found out from previous incidents that it does not have a lot of effect on him. i think that is the frustration. we will find out this week both what will come in and on the gag order and the other interesting thing i thought that happened in court, it was friday. we got a little bit of a teaser from donald trump's team and the government about how i go cool and might be presented. in the 30 minutes were both the government and donald trump's lawyers could ask questions of the jurors, they were asked to each were asked a question without naming michael cohen but about someone -- the

government ask jurors if they could keep an open mind to someone who has pled guilty in the past to whatever it is. and they zeroed in on that. if they pled guilty to perjury, can they keep an open mind about it? from the donald trump side, the groups were asked on that site. if someone has committed perjury and transferred stories multiple times, would you be able to understand that that person is not credible? we are starting to see how different things will be framed. the other thing that came up that i was most surprised about on the questions to the jurors or respective jurors that became jurors on friday morning, was donald trump residence lawyers asked the jurors if they would have difficulty with the fact that mr. trump was unfaithful in his marriage and that caught me right away because donald trump so far has not admitted to this affair. and i was interested that they were bringing that up to the jurors and planting that idea

right out the onset. i don't quite know the strategy. maybe they are trying to get them used to the idea. i don't know. i thought that was an interesting question. some of the issues that will come up and how everybody will deal with them. >> he also has not admitted that he lost the 2020 election. >> alicia, there is that. and i think your point, and i like -- i would like for both of you to address this. this is a reality for donald trump. that is why they are asking the question. it is part of the reality. whether donald trump gets on the stand or not, those facts can become part of the conversation. yet axios reporting on this reality and noting the fact that the frequent exasperate expressions in court seem to reflect the reality that he is not in charge anymore. alleluia. what does that mean to you, charles? what does it say to you as a

prosecutor? and what does it say to you, sue, as someone covered by defendants and high-profile cases when this is the take away. for the first time, you have a defendant who is like oh, no. >> donald trump will do more work for me than i could ever do in terms of what i will do as a lawyer. part of the reason for that is just what we were talking about. he can't control himself. he doesn't know better in terms of being able to present himself in front of a jury that will be in any way, shape or form likable or presentable. the other side is that donald trump is not used to being in spaces where there are narratives advancing about him that he cannot counteract and that is exactly why he has so much trouble with this gag order. there are things being said about him and he feels as if his hands are tied. he cannot stand the feeling. and i joked about it at the beginning of the last segment. the truth is that trial is a

very long, arduous and exhausting process. for someone of his age. it is a lot of stress to deal with. that is why i fully expect regardless of what happens with judge juan merchan percent ruling this week, he is going to pop. he is going to violate the gag order in grand fashion in front of the media and i think it will come sooner rather than later because it is not a position he is used to being in. if i'm the prosecutor in this case, i'm going to sit back and let it happen. >> he has lost control of the narrative. the other thing that i think is important from the juror point of view and i have interviewed a lot of jurors after trials. we get hold of them and we want to see what they thought and what they saw. they pay a lot of attention to the person in the box. i think his demeanor, he is falling asleep. they notice it. does it become a deciding

factor? this is all input jurors pay attention to. one day he nodded often it was probably the most dramatic. sometimes he is resting his eyes. the court room very hot monday. it is now pretty cold. he is having trouble keeping awake and alert. jurors notice the body language and the siding and it all builds into what they think about him as they listen to the evidence. he is a former president. they will have eyes on him. we could tell that they were very focused on him when they came into the room and they will be for the entire trial pick this stuff matters. >> yes, it does. and accountability as well. suzanne craig, thank you. charles, stick around my friend. we have a bit more to discuss with you as the supreme court's conservative majority seems skeptical about the justice department charging rioters with obstruction. what could this mean for the case against trump? you are watching "the weekend."

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this week, the supreme court's conservative majority seems skeptical of prosecutors using obstruction statute to charge hundreds of january sixth reuters. it is the same statue using donald trump's federal election interference case. according to the new york times, even of the court tosses of the use of the law against trump supporters are broken of the capital, it does not mean the course of mr. trump's own case could be greatly altered. charles coleman is still with us. >> charles, can you make that make sense for us? if the supreme court rules that the use of obstruction law was for rioters, how does that not affect donald trump? >> it affects him but not to a significant degree. the capital rioters are charged with something different than donald trump. they went to congress and

everything we saw at the capital. there is an element of what donald trump did in terms of trying to orchestrate all of this that he is being charged with. that is the part that is the meat and potatoes of the federal indictment and white would be unchanged. the ultimate result around what happened january 6th is what these capital rioters are charged with and that would be affected. but the actions preceding that, it will still be dealt with regardless of whatever the supreme court decides in this particular case. >> for furthering symone's point, it levels up the aspect of this narrative because you now have a reporting out there that shows that trump actually helped in that response on january 6. that he played a much more active role than what

we even knew then. and now know more about today. who does how does all this additional information about trump's involvement offset some of the narratives that are being thrown up by his trial team? also, when you have someone like justice clarence thomas, noting there have been many violent protests that have interfered with proceedings as the government applied this provision to other protests in the past. >> none. but this is different. >> far be it for me to try to unpack the machinations of justice thomas. when your tongue about the fake electors scheme or everything else that went into it, there is a different level of culpability and accountability that donald trump is facing. in terms of the narrative, should this go forward, the information we learned as of late, particularly around

donald trump's reticence to actually stop january 6 will no doubt be a part of his charges and what is being levied against him and what he will have to contend with when he finally faces jack smith in a court of law in d.c. these things are not necessarily competing. they do complement one another. the real question will be, to what end and to what extent of the supreme court's decision in this case allows jack smith to tell the story to completion. >> it is a story that needs telling. as always, thank you for starting your morning with us. next, congressman jim clyburn is at the table to talk about capitol hill. >> i spoke about speaker mike johnson on the yesterday and the cbd -- msnbc daily newsletter. subscribe now by scanning the qr code on your screen with your smart phone camera. you can sign up and start reading. you are watching "the weekend."

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democrats will provide a majority of the majority as it relates to funding israel, humanitarian assistance, ukraine and our allies in the indo-pacific. it remains to be seen but republicans will do. >> that was house democratic leader hakeem jeffries after the advancement of the package of foreign bills and providing assistance to israel, ukraine and other u.s. allies. in a few hours, congress is expected to vote on those bills. house speaker mike johnson pack for support of the aid package may put his job at jeopardy. now that at least three republican members have announced their support for a motion to vacate the chair and will almost certainly need

democratic members to bail them out. joining us now is democratic congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. he is also a biden/harris campaign cochair. welcome. good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> good seeing you. >> you actually voted against advancing the foreign aid bills yesterday. why did you do that and how are you going to vote on the final passage of these bills? >> i voted against the rule. when you have been the house majority and voted against rules. there are couple of things in their that i particularly don't like. the fact that we are treating this aid to ukraine as forgivable. i think we need to stand up for our allies. and maybe not a member of nato bit trying to be a member of nato for a long time. and nato members are supporting

ukraine. and supporting nato members. a couple of things in that rule that irritate me a little bit. but i will be voting for the package. >> i have a follow-up question. in the previous iterations of the bill, obviously this is not what passed the senate. but the money allocated for ukraine, the majority of the money went to the pentagons of the pentagon could buy weapons and ammunition and parts made in america and send that to ukraine. what is different now in terms of it being a loan? are they loaning money to the pentagon? can you break that down? >> not all of it is a loan. somewhere around 10, $12 billion. and it is the part that deals with infrastructure issues and the rebuilding. even that to me is a bit of an insult. when you are talking about

protecting our allies and relationships and reputation around the world, we ought not be setting that up as a loan. >> it is interesting to watch the evolution of speaker johnson and the reality of the various moments that have coalesced around israel and around ukraine and hitting him square in the eye. i want to play for you some sound from the speaker on capitol hill yesterday on whether he is worried about his job. take a listen. >> are you worried about your job? >> i don't worry. i just do my job. >> we will see what happens. i will do my job. i am not deterred by threats. i will do the right thing. >> he is doing the right thing. it may pay a political price within his own caucus. how are democrats assessing the

politics of this moment? mccarthy, it was a very different consideration. this one is of more value to democrats because of the fact that you have a speaker who is not just in a precarious situation but is trying to do the right thing now. >> absolutely. i think we will have to wait and see. if this is an evolution rather than a revolution, then i am inclined to be supportive. although i will follow the leadership of hakeem jeffries who is in the room. i am not in those rooms anymore. i will talk with him or continue to talk with him to see exactly how we should conduct ourselves. let me say this. after this vote is over today, i'm interested in seeing how this speaker reacts to the votes. if you recall, we got kevin

mccarthy in trouble is the way he reacted to the votes. >> that is what i will be waiting to see if. >> respectively throwing democrats under the bus. >> on the sunday show. >> it did not make since. i hope the speaker has in fact evolved and if he has, that there won't be a need for revolution. >> congressman, i will ask you to put on your biden/harris cochair hat. there was an op-ed in the new york times about vice president harris that i want to read to you. it says, "the kamala harris moment has arrived. being a trusted voice in favor of reproductive rights against republicans are determined to restrict or eliminate them and maybe they greater contribution she can make to the bite reelection bid and retaining national stability." your sense of the role vice president harris is playing on the campaign? >> i think charles is correct

at this point. she has been there for quite some time. people seem to be focused, just listening. kamala harris has been incredibly effective vice president an incredibly effective voice and she got her footing way back at the beginning. am very pleased with what she is doing. she didn't just get there. she has been there for a while. and i'm glad to see now that the country is focusing on it. >> the important point is that they are two people on the ticket and that is something the republicans love to talk about. we heard a lot about in the republican presidential primary. and it was governor haley that would talk about president harris and a vote for joe biden is a vote for harris. they truly are a ticket.

a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris because they are running together. she is the vice president of the united states of america. what are you hearing out there as you are traveling and talking to voters about this ticket, this campaign and voters on the scene? >> things are coming together very well. the fact of the matter is that people are beginning to focus now. the whole weekend team has been talking about the lack of focus that there was in the beginning. now people are seeing things and listening and drawing contrasts between biden and trump and am very pleased with the way the results are. i'm seeing these new numbers. people are beginning to take a hard look at where we are going to go as to the future. >> speaking of the future, you

have very important races coming up for house members this fall. i think smart analysis is showing that the democrats are very well primed to take back the leadership of the house. the senate is a little bit more of a play there and it may be difficult. you do have the momentum. you have the opportunity. how do you see the various issues out there coalescing around what his second term for joe biden will look like, particularly given some of the dissension that still exists among many americans, particularly the democratic party, the progressive left, around gaza for example, or student loan debt? how do you paint the broader picture? that is what republicans are doing. they are painting the broad picture. they are not dealing with specifics but they are talking more broadly about how bad things are.

my god, the country is falling apart. how dare you employ 300,000 people last month. >> how dare you bring murders down by 20%. >> thank you, symone. you went where i want to go. there is a report out showing the number of homicides have plummeted in major u.s. cities. nearly 20%. and yet, you would not know that listening to your opponents. how do you level up that conversation and say, let's check this because we are not going to get stuck on stupid. we are not going to pretend that crime has run away in the cities, et cetera? >> you have to look globally to begin with. let's talk about the president of japan. this issue in the middle east, he has been for a two state solution for a long time. and has made it clear to benjamin netanyahu that we are

not going to be offensive as we go into the future in the middle east. we are going to protect israel's right to defend itself. when we come to these responses, he is letting netanyahu know where the country stands. on that issue, yes. i would rather have, after november, a person in office who wanted two state solution rather than the last two or three years undermining the two state solution. if you look at the domestic front, who would you rather have in place? a guy that protects democracy and defends fighting men and women with dignity and respect? or the guy who says he wants to be in autocrat and a dictator on day one? or the guy who believes in the democracy, who believes in laying a foundation for the future and believes in

protecting. so a look at the domestic front and the global front and look at where we are today. where would you like to see this country five years from now? >> under the control of a person who believes in our pursuit of a more perfect union or the person who ignores the constitution and would like to suspend it for the future of our children and grandchildren? >> i think we are in good shape. >> congressman, you have a very busy day ahead of you. we are going to let you do the people's work. thank you for taking time for us. we have much more ahead. this is "the we can" on msnbc. frizz. dryness. breakage. new dove 10-in-1 serum hair mask with peptide complex. fortifies hair bonds at a molecular level. helps reverse ten signs of damage in one minute. keep living. we'll keep repairing.

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moments ago, senate majority leader chuck schumer spoke on the senate floor and gave an update on the foreign aid bills he said the senate has reached a tentative agreement to clear the path for the senate to take up the supplemental when the house acts today. that means movement. the president could sign the bill as early as this evening if all is well with the bills. >> i think it is important to see when the leadership, house and senate, get past the partisan crazy and the dumb noises and actually focus on getting something done which is not just good for securing the globe but also showing the

american people that we can do the big and the small things. i think it is a good day. a hats off to majority leader chuck schumer. hats off to speaker johnson for getting us to this point where votes will actually happen. >> i want to underline that point. i think it is the right one. the actual legislation that will be passed which is obviously the most important thing and then there is a secondary piece you referenced which is proving to people that washington can work. proving to people that government can work. all of these faux populists on the right, part of the argument is that congress can't do anything. the government can't do anything. and so it behooves them when they prove their own point. >> that is such an exact point. that is the whole narrative. this is dysfunction. we the people want to storm the

house. the reality is, let the house do its work. of marjorie taylor greene can set her behind down long enough to by down on the floor, rally your votes on the floor. that is what whipping the vote is all about. putting the vote on the floor. so much of this has been avoiding that moment. the country is about to see for the first time. something as significant as this aid package is. hats off to the leadership for sticking to their guns. hats off to the white house for knowing when to assert itself and when to draw back and when to put a little noise out narratively that symone knows a lot about having worked there and went to fall back and let the leadership take the message and run with it. >> one could argue that joe biden has done this before. one could argue that he knows how to work with congress to negotiate and get what he wants

out of the folks right behind michael at the capital. i mean, who would have thought? i will say the government works for the people. this is what they are supposed to be doing. for so long, we have been victims of this performative political charade coming primarily from republicans in the house of representatives like the marjorie taylor greenes and the freedom caucus on the far right republicans. the way members of congress are supposed to conduct business in committee is on the floor. you put your name on it and you vote on it, yes or no, and the american people get to see what they decide. hope this might just be a moment. this could be a movement. we don't know. coming up velshi, he will talk about the big day on capitol hill with representative jamie raskin. we will be right back, folks. f .

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the secretary general of nato will be here, follow on social media. in the meantime, msnbc starts right now. good morning, ali. >> you picking into my guest list, nato, what is up with that ? >> we are trying to keep up with you, ali velshi.