thank you for joining us. i'm ana cabrera in for katy tur. a jury and six alternates are selected in former president trump's hush money trial, and we are learning more about a dramatic and really scary moment outside the courthouse. a man setting himself on fire in this area. designated for protesters. he has been taken by ambulance to the hospital. this is just a horrific event with few answers right now. we do not know who he is or why he was there or if it was related to what's happening inside the courthouse less than 100 feet away and what was going on at that exact moment. we are waiting for a press conference from the nypd set to get underway at any moment. we'll keep an eye out for that. in the meantime, joining us right now is nbc news national correspondent yasmin vossoughian outside that courthouse. she witnessed this whole thing go down. yasmin, you were on air when this fire happened. tell me what you saw and have we learned any more details? >> reporter: it was really unbelievable to see, obviously

reporting on the impanelled jury for donald trump, a historic moment in this nation's history, and as i look out of the corner of my eye, i heard an individual yelling that he's on fire, and it was hard to kind of understand what i was seeing with my own eyes. and i want to keep an eye on this press conference and make sure we go to that as soon as they get up and going, but as i looked over, i thought, there's a fire in the middle of that square, and this is a cordoned off area, ana, that is there for protesters and on day one of this trial, of the jury selection process, it was filled with protesters. today there were one or two individuals mulling about in the area throughout the day, and then i understood what i was actually seeing with my own eyes, which was an individual, a man who was on fire. the flames, ana, were 20 to 25 feet high. i could see the outline of his body inside those flames, which

was so terrifying, really, to see, as he went to the ground. his knees hit the ground first. we have a lot of security presence out here obviously because of the trial that is taking place in the building behind me, the former president of the united states. you have secret service, you have nypd. nypd, especially, making the run to the entrance of this park. it took them a few minutes to get into the park because the entrance of the park is about 100 feet away from where i'm standing now. as they made their way towards this individual, they were able to put out the flames. it did, in fact, take some time. emt arrived, and they were able to carry the individual away. when i saw that individual that had set himself on fire on -- with emt, he did still seem as if he was alive. i don't know the status of him at this point. and of course we hope to learn more when that press conference gets up and going. i do also want to relay to you some eyewitness reports that i got as well from one freelance

journalist, who at one point, his camera was trained away from park, but he heard a woman scream. he's about to set himself on fire. and he whipped around, 180 degrees and looked into the park, and he saw a young man as he describes to me with a gray t-shirt on, who was standing there in the middle of the park. he threw the papers up in the air. he doused himself with a liquid. he lit a lighter and subsequently set himself on fire. now, that paper that he threw up in the air. we did get a glimpse of it because it had blown towards the direction in which we are standing now, and there are some far reaching conspiracy theories on this paper. whether or not that is part of the motivation as to why this individual set himself on fire, we don't know. and i do think, ana, as we talk about this, it is important to reiterate, we don't know if there is any connection between

what we saw in that park just 50 feet away from where i'm standing and what is happening in the courthouse behind me, which is the former president on trial for the hush money case here in new york city. >> yasmin, stay with me, and we will continue to watch for this presser to get underway where we hope to learn more information about exactly what happened and why this happened. joining me now is retired nypd lieutenant, darren porcher. thank you for taking the time. we are talking about a protest area outside that courthouse. we know security is tight given this very high profile case happening inside, and the intense, of course, political environment we're all in. would there have been security checks for people going into this protest area? >> that's difficult to discern if there would be a security check. it would make all the sense in the world to check people going into the controlled area. you have to take in mind, that's 100 center street. you have a series of people coming and going to criminal court.

you have supreme court. you have federal court across the street. so you have an semblance of difficult criminal justice issues in the area. it may be difficult to discern people being in possession of a weapon. i think the police do the best they can in a situation like this, and we clearly see the individual is distinguished after he applied the accelerant on his body. the one thing we know is this is a person that's experiencing a mental health episode. we don't know the reason why he did it. but we know that this is what happened, and fortunately there's the greatest concentration of law enforcement in the city in that small two-block area based on the court system, and we were able to extinguish this as quick as possible. >> that person taken by ambulance to the hospital. no word at this moment on his condition. do you foresee any changes in the security posture after this? >> i can't see much more than

you can do. outside out of this being the trump trial at 100 center street. you have hundreds of police officers attending their own criminal court proceedings in that area. so the robust security that's already present, just based on the officers providing testimony in different court cases, i just can't see where you can provide more security. the only thing i can possibly recommend is maybe overhead drones. i generally believe the nypd has it covered. >> thank you so much for taking the time. we're going to continue to await this press conference. let's talk about what's happening inside the courthouse. and back with us is yasmin vossoughian. court is expected to resume in the next five to ten minutes. do we know how the proceedings will be impacted by this? >> reporter: we don't know that answer yet, ana. one thing i wanted to mention, you actually don't need any security to get into that cordoned off area where folks are protesting and the man

subsequently lit himself on fire. you need clearance to get into where i am in the press area, but not in that area. i wanted to mention that. let's talk about what's happening in the building behind me. 3:15 they're supposed to resume. as of right now, it's 3:07. >> yasmin, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we have the press conference with nypd starting. let's listen to that and we'll come back. >> and today you're going to hear from our chief of department, jeffrey mage who will update you on the incident that took place, the fire commissioner, cavanaugh on the condition of all the people involved, the medical conditions, and our chief of detectives, joe kenny, and he'll talk to you about the investigation of the incident today. so with that, i'll bring out the chief of department. >> thank you, good afternoon, everyone. i'm going to try and talk loud so you can hear me.

at 1:30 this afternoon, right here in collect pond park, directly opposite of new york county criminal court at 100 center street, where the trial of former president trump is currently taking place, we observe a male walk into the park. he walks into the center of the park. when he's in the park, he starts shuffling around his clothes, opens up a book bag. from the book bag, he takes numerous pamphlets out. throws the pamphlets throughout the park, and then he pulls out a canister and pours some kind of liquid on himself, a liquid we believe is an accelerant, and he lights himself on fire. the male, he takes a couple of steps while he's on fire, and eventually falls on to a police barrier, and falls down to the ground. he's on fire. another area in the park where some of the accelerant spilled is also on fire. civilians, court officers, members of the police department, they run into the

park. they make efforts to put him out. they use their coats, they use fire extinguishers, eventually fdny responds. we're able to extinguish the fire and from that point, we removed him to cornell burn unit. right now he's there in critical condition. at this moment, i'll let commissioner talk about the condition of the male and the condition of people who helped and who were witnesses there. >> thank you. as the chief mentioned, the victim is in critical condition and is alive and intubated at cornell burn center. there were four nypd officers and one court officers, so four officers who had minor injuries for their exposure to the fire. they are green tags, which are minor. we were on scene as the chief mentioned. ems did treat and transport the patient, and we have fire

marshals here helping with the investigation at this time. >> good afternoon, everyone. so the male that's involved in this incident, his name is going to be maxwell asarillo, a male, born in 1987. his driver's license indicates he's from st. augustine, florida. what we know from witnesses and family members, he arrived in new york sometime earlier in the week. we have his car being in st. augustine, florida, on the 13th. so anywhere between the 13th and today he arrived. we spoke to family members today, they were unaware that he was even in new york. as the fire commissioner stated, he's at cornell burn center right now. the accelerant appears to be an alcohol-based substance used for cleaning. and that's all we have right now. >> why don't we go right down the line, left to right, and decide who's going to take what. >> reporter: i wanted to ask you about security. are you going to be putting more

officers? is there any change in the strategy from before? >> after every incident, we have after action, and we'll talk about if we're going to add officers or not, but just so you know, we had a lot of officers in the area. it is open to the public to still walk through the park, and so there was no security breach here. >> reporter: any evidence of political motivation here, any clues as to why this occurred? >> the pamphlets seemed to be propaganda based, almost like a conspiracy theory type of pamphlet. some information in regards to ponzi schemes and the fact that some of our local educational institutes are fronts for the mob. a little bit of a conspiracy theory going on. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> what we have seen so far today is it appears he walked from leonard street, entered the park, walked into the middle of the park and committed the act.

>> reporter: chief, speaking of family, did they give you any other insight into his mental state? >> very preliminary in dealing with the family so far. we just made notification to them that the incident had taken place. >> reporter: how concerned are you that somebody was able to get this far in, light themselves on fire, obviously you said they're in critical condition right now. how concerned are you? >> thank you. we're very concerned. of course we're going to review our security protocols. this gentleman did not breach security protocols. the park was open to the public, but of course we're going to look at everything, and with the magnitude of what's going on around right here, we'll reassess our security with our federal partners. >> reporter: how does that change things moving forward? >> like i said, we're going to go back to the command, we'll talk to our federal partners and make decisions if we need to tighten up security.

maybe we'll shut down the park. this is something we'll determine once we talk with all of our partners, with the court officers to make sure with everything going on, the gravity of the event going on right now, we make sure we have ample security. >> reporter: so from the video and from eyewitnesss, it took a few minutes for the police officers to get their hands on the fire extinguishers, was there no fdny presence already here, is that something the fdny wants to revisit in case there's another emergency like this, where ems or fire would have to respond immediately. it took police officers to use fire extinguishers to put him out. >> obviously we're working in partnership with courts, fdny, all the city agencies that need to be over here are here. you got to also remember the park is open to the public. so there was no reason for anybody to have a fire

extinguisher on stand by. nobody knew this guy was going to light himself on fire. two minutes is a pretty quick response time to get to a vehicle, get to a fire extinguisher, run around and start trying to extinguish this fire. as far as fdny commissioner. >> they'll work with nypd to review what happened, and if additional resources are necessary, we'll place them here. typically for any kind of major security event, which this is, we have additional ems resources on scene. fire only sometimes or usually is not a reason for that as you typically would not have next to a public park. we'll work with nypd to review that. >> reporter: what's the response? >> i would have to confirm what time they responded. i'll get back to you. we do in high security event have more ems on scene because there could be more. >> reporter: what's happening across the street.

[ inaudible question ] do you think this is something that -- >> not everything that you see right here is part of the plan. there's a large security plan for this, and trust me, when we had our meetings before this took place, we met with fdny, ems, we met with our court partners. we met with secret service. so i'm not quite sure what else you're looking for. >> well, an ambulance like on stand by. >> yeah, em, and fdny are in the area during the trial as well, and they're totally aware of what's going on, and our response time today was pretty quick. >> reporter: did the man say anything, before, during the incident? >> as of right now, what we're showing is that he just walked directly into the park and began

to throw the pamphlets in the air, and then lit himself on fire. that could come out during the investigation. we have a lot of witnesses here, a lot of people coming forward. we hope if more people come forward, we can put more information together. as of right now, we don't have that he was making any statements. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> we're looking through his social media, and what he did online prior, and it appears that he did post something in regards to this event prior to the incident. >> reporter: to walk back, i'm hearing that something like this trial when you're gathering intelligence. social media is something you do look at, and i mean, obviously, one of the things we're looking at is saying i'm the man, you know, i'm the man who set himself on fire.

>> all of his social media is going to be scrubbed. obviously we didn't know him prior to this incident. i can talk about the detective bureau. we didn't know him prior to the incident. all the social media, any associates, we'll be looking at all of that. >> reporter: is there any connection between this guy and the trial? >> at this point, like i said, very preliminary, we done have that. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> he's considered likely. he's very critical. his condition is not good. as of right now, he's still alive. >> reporter: are you aware of disturbing incidents involving this individual? >> we're looking through that right now as five minutes ago before we started this press conference, i didn't see any criminal history in new york. >> i know it hasn't been asked yet, but i want commissioner to step in for a second to talk

about what he did immediately after to make sure that the area is safe. >> immediately following this incident, i requested the bomb squad to come. i wanted the bomb squad to serge search the area for possible secondary devices. they are doing that right now behind me, with k-9, checking the individuals. as of right now, there's no additional devices found with regards to this incident. we'll continue to search the area. as far as your caution about enhanced security procedures, we're going to take a look into this. we may have to shut this area down. that's something we're going to do. we're going to have a conversation. >> reporter: can you reiterate what type of personality do you have on site right now. >> we're working with numerous city agencies and federal

partners over in this area. we're working with courts, secret service, sanitation whose building is here. fdny. we won't discuss what number of personnel we have out here. >> last two. >> reporter: can you share what you told donald trump's service detail, his team? >> we're not going to share conversations we had with secret service, but everyone involved in the trial inside is aware of the situation that took place outside. >> last one. >> reporter: do you know how mr. maxwell got there? >> that's on the investigation. i'll let you, kenny talk about that. >> after of right now, we have him walking to the park. that doesn't mean he didn't take the train here or via a car. we have a vehicle identified that's connected with him. we're currently searching for the car. >> a man was seen by multiple

people carrying a sign that appeared to be someone anti-trump, and earlier this week you blocked off barricades for trump supporters, and i notice he lit himself on fire on the trump supported side. do you have any reason to believe he was targeting trump supporters? >> as everyone who stepped up earlier, we do not believer this was targeting any particular person or any particular group. we just right now are labeling it as a conspiracy theory and going from there. >> thank you for your time. you were listening into new york law enforcement as well as fire officials addressing what happened outside the courthouse in manhattan where donald trump's hush money trial is underway. this afternoon, a man set himself on fire in an area that was supposed to be cordoned off for protesters, a public park area as they describe. he walked in through the area,

poured some accelerant on his body and set himself on fire. while civilians rushed to put the fire out, and an ambulance has taken him to the hospital. he's said to be in very critical condition. still alive. there are also four other police officers who suffered injuries in trying to extinguish the fire. those are said to be minor injuries. and now we know this man is in his mid-30s. was from florida, arrived here in new york in the last week or so. there's an ongoing investigation, but at this time, they don't believe there's any threat necessarily out there. the bomb squad has been searching the area, has found no devices. they say there were conspiracy theory content on the pamphlets he threw into the air. they'll continue to delve into his history. they'll say they're reassessing the security around the courthouse, which is already very very high because of the high profile trial involving a former president. in just a moment, we're going to talk about what's happening

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yasmin vossoughian, and outside the courthouse. what's happening there right now? >> reporter: yeah, so they got up and going. they resumed court just a couple of minutes ago, about six minutes or so coming back from this lunch break: they're getting into the sandoval hearing from what i'm seeing here, and let me just walk folks through. we saw a filing about two days ago from the prosecution as to what this would entail, what the sandoval hearing would entail. this is a hearing how they present how cross-examination would work if the former president and his attorneys together decided that he would take the stand in his own testimony. so they're presenting establishing really a pattern of behavior, ana, it seems in this sandoval hearing and what they would do in cross. they would be presenting, for instance, the conviction of the trump corporation, trump payroll corporation as well. lying under oath, the judgment from judge engoron, with the trump civil fraud trial.

they kind of want to establish this pattern of behavior for the former president. if we think about some of the other testimony that we are expecting from some other key witnesses, michael cohen, we know the defense is going after michael cohen's character. what we're hearing from the prosecution is, for instance, michael cohen, when he is to take the stand, they're going to focus less on his character and more about documentation. they're going to be presenting michael cohen with a lot of documents and saying is this accurate, is this not accurate, to take the limelight off michael cohen's character. in this instance, and i only bring that up to juxtapose that to the former president, this is going to be more of a character testimony, hence the reason they're talking about all of the convictions that the former president has faced over the last couple of years, his corporation, trump organization as well, and so it will come down to hearing this information from the former president, along with his attorneys, and making that decision as to whether or

not he's going to testify. >> stay with me as i bring in our legal analyst, nbc news legal analyst, danny cevallos, and former new york assistant attorney general adam pollock. what a week. here we are. we now have a jury fully seated. a 12-person jury plus the six alternates. we got the alternates just within the last couple of hours. we have moved into the sandoval hearing, and yasmin outlined what's happening inside the courthouse. before we talk more in depth about that, first, danny, are you surprised we're at this point already? >> i'm nonplussed. if you had asked me six days ago, i would have said jury selection, i would have said more than two weeks. i might have even said three weeks, and in fact, after day one of jury selection, i was doubling down on that because it moved so slowly. it seems like an era ago. on monday morning, they didn't get to jury selection until the afternoon, and barely made a scratch on the surface, but oh,

how things picked up after that. for lawyers out there who have picked juries and i have had cases that have taken many weeks to pick juries, it's astonishing that the judge was able in not a full week of work, mind you, just four days to pick a jury in arguably one of the foremost critically important criminal cases in american history. it's mind blowing, and of course for those who said this was just normal jury selection, it really wasn't because in other cases f a juror says at the outset, hey, i actually know this defendant, and i have opinions about him, in almost every other case, good chance the juror is going to get tossed on a for challenge. they came to the case as baseline. everyone's going to know the defendant, and everyone is going to have opinions about the defendant. let's start from there. can you set aside opinions, and render a verdict based on the

facts and evidence. just a remarkable case of so many firsts right here in new york. . >> adam, why do you think it went so fast? >> i think judge merchan is showing that he is in control of this courtroom. he's in control of the process, and he wants to see an efficient and effective process. pick a jury, pick a jury. everybody knows the defendant here. but pick a jury that can be unbiassed and impartial and observe the evidence and make a decision based on the evidence. >> what do you think of judge merchan and how he's handled all of this? what are your impressions? >> i have been impressed. we have seen him before. he's a great job. he knows what he's doing. he wants to ensure an orderly trial happens, and an orderly trial happens swiftly. we thought this was going to take weeks. same thing here, but unlike there, they did it very swiftly. >> these jurors are going to have a lot of weight on their shoulders, danny, even inside

the questioning today as prospective alternate jurors were going through the questionnaires, they were being questioned during voir dire. we saw people crying. there were at least four who expressed having really bad anxiety. we're not even into the trial yes what are the next six to eight weeks going to be like for the panel of jurors? >> it's common to lose jurors after they're seated. maybe they fall asleep during trial, something comes up. it's rare to lose jurors between the time they're selected and before the trial starts while jury selection is still going on. normally nothing is happening. in this case, you saw jurors who went home, slept on it t talked to their families, and came back in and said you know what, i have had a change of heart. one of the things the parties are thinking about now, how much do we need to worry about this as the trial goes on. if you had it any way you could, you would probably want 20

alternates. there's a chance you might start burning through jurors in ways you don't normally lose jurors in the ordinary trial. the last few days have been a classic example. jurors who say, i don't think i can be impartial, you know what, may family contacted me. i didn't realize how much i would be put out there in the public, and maybe i'm having second thoughts about this. so while juror attrition is something that's normal, what's -- that's why we have alternate jurors in the first place, this might be unusual juror attrition, and we have seen it, and opening statements haven't started yet. >> what has started just now is the sandoval hearing that we heard mentioned by yasmin. how is this going to go? >> it's going to be interesting. it's a much longer list of prior evidence, of prior cases involving trump and his trump corporation, the defamation case. there's a much longer list than you normally see of prior bad conduct, and i think the judge

needs to really make a tough decision here, if trump testifies, what he's going to allow in, and what's going to be unduly prejudiced. . >> the rule against character evidence is so important. i say this as a criminal defense attorney, take what i say with a block of salt. there's a rule that you can't introduce bad things somebody has done in the past. it's a rule with so many exceptions, it might as well not be a rule at all. in new york, the procedure is essentially a sandoval hearing, and what they're doing is giving trump a preview of what they would like to introduce as those prior bad acts if the judge lets them. if it were up to the state, the prosecutors, they will enter all manner of bad acts. that's why you have a hearing. generally speaking in the

federal courts a 404b hearing, the rule differs slightly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. they balance the probative hearing, sometimes even something that is relevant and prerogative may be excluded if it's just too prejudice, that the judge has apply. the state wants to bring in as much bad character as they can. when you show that a defendant has bad character, the jury is much more inclined to convict them. >> danny cevallos, adam pollock, thank you, stick around. more updates as we get them. first, the middle east and israel launching a retaliatory attack on iran. what we can expect now in the coming days. don't go anywhere. coming days. don't go anywhere. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com.

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and now to the middle east where after days of escalating threats, israel carried out a retaliatory, limited strike inside iran. the damage is being assessed by officials. iran appears to be down playing the event and israel is silent. the u.s. says they were quote not involved. joining us now, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez, and senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace, and former arab negotiator, aaron david miller.

we are hearing these strikes are being down played by both sides, really, but iran had been vowing retaliation for any strikes inside iran. where does that leave us? >> reporter: ana, it leaves us with the strong impression that neither side is looking for escalation. we heard from the iranian president, he is a hard liner, one of the iranian officials who said that any israeli attack of any size would be met with massive and immediate retaliation and yet during this speech, he made no mention at all of that israeli strike. here in israel, the official line is they are neither confirming nor denying israeli involvement in this attack. we did not hear from prime minister benjamin netanyahu in any significant way. and, ana, this appears to be a public messaging strategy that is designed to give the iranians space to allow them to choose

not to retaliation without losing face. this is a kind of diplomatic off ramp, if you will. and so far, it appears to be working. we are not seeing the iranian regime pointing the finger at israel. we are not seeing them announcing that they will retaliate at this stage. here in israel, there are no new restrictions on the civilian population. that is a pretty strong indication that the israeli government does not feel at this point that there is iranian retaliation imminent. it's worth noting today's strike did not happen in a vacuum. april 1st, there was that alleged israeli attack near the iranian embassy compound near syria, which killed seven senior members of the revolutionary guard. over the weekend, you had the massive, unprecedented iranian attack on israel itself.

350 drones, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, the vast majority of which were shot down, both by israel but also by the u.s. and its partners. and that's what gets us to today. in terms of what we know about the strike, it happens at about 4:00 a.m. it appears that the main target was an iranian military base near the city of isfahan, a couple of hours south of teheran. a source tells nbc news it was a limited strike and the israelis spent the next couple of hours afterwards assessing the damage. what remains unclear at this time is whether that strike was carried out with surface-to-surface, whether it was drones. but both israel and the united states at this point very tight lipped about the details. >> raf sanchez reporting for us in tel aviv. thank you so much, raf. you've had a long day. thank you for bringing us the latest. aaron, escalation has been the keyword in the last week.

i want you to hear what we just heard from the white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre just in the past hour. >> i'm going to speak more generally. we have been very very clear from here, from the beginning that we do not want to see this conflict escalate. we continue to consult with our allies and partners, including in the region, obviously, and to reduce further risk of escalation in the region. >> aaron, what does deescalation look like beyond public statements at this point? >> you know, last night on tv i felt we were on the cusp of world war iii and today there's this conspiracy of silence. it's really quite extraordinary. no one is talking in iran, down playing it. israelis haven't accepted responsibility or denied it, and white house officials aren't saying anything. kirby basically said that he was going to give a comment and the

comment was no comment. so i think it's remarkable and extraordinary. this could have played out two ways. number one, it could have gone to escalation, and the war that nobody wants in my judgment, or alternatively, it could have gone and so far has gone in that direction. a new threshold has been crossed. iran has never attacked directly, the israelis have carried out covert action but never something that is clearly so avert, directly as a consequence of what iran did to israel. a new threshold has been crossed. my question is in crossing that threshold, both sides attacking one another's territory, has it reinforced their propensity to take additional risks as tensions mount in the future?

or are they now risk averse? and i think that's the question we're going to have to follow in the days ahead. the iranian israeli strategic rivalry, ana, is not going to end. none of the issues are resolved. the proxy issue, not resolved. the iranian nuclear issue, not resolved. iran asset intention to push american forces out of the middle east, not resolved. this is going to go forward. the question is new reality created so that during the next serious period of tension, one side or the other believes it can actually strike the other's territory precisely because it did not lead to escalation. and that, i think, is the sort of irony about this situation. so, again, they're in a strategic cul-de-sac, strikes me there's no way out. the best we're going to be able to do, i think, is to contain and try to manage. >> let's talk about the u.s.

role at this point. secretary blinken says the u.s. has not been involved in any offensive operations, the italian foreign minister said israel did give the u.s. a last minute warning prior to responding to iran with the latest strike. what's your sense of the diplomatic relationship right now between the u.s. and israel and the change in conversations and the dynamic since october 7th. >> you know, i think the tictoc went something like this, when israeli struck damascus, killing a very senior iranian revolutionary guard corps commander, i think there was tremendous frustration and anger. and the administration was notified briefly before that strike. i'm certain that that anger was white holt. then the iranians respond with 350 high trajectory weapons. and the united states in a

demonstration of extraordinary support uses its own fighter aircraft and air defense systems, and takes down a significant portion of those weapons launched against israel. and then the president goes in to the talking points which were, look, you've won here, the iranians look weak, you look strong, you have the moral high ground, he didn't say don't retaliate. >> he said take the win. >> right. take the win, he said. >> right. take the win. but i think within four or five days, the white house, more or less, was conditioned to the reality that the israelis would respond. it seems to me they had to respond. not just because of what happened on april 13th and 14th, but because of october 7th. their whole conception deterrence has been undermined by the hamas terror surge on october 7th and the degree of difficulty they're having crushing hamas and killing its

senior leaders, so now the white house is we're not going it talk -- to talk about this, and i suspect the message is deescalation. in the end, i have seen it many many times, in a conflict in which both sides consider their vital interests at stake, the influence of outside parties, the leverage of outside parties is very limited. and this region is filled with the remains of great powers. their schemes, their dreams, their ambitions that they thought they could impose on smaller ones. this is an example of that. six months of war, an inability to find a way out, the biden administration, very tough lift, and even now, i think all they can do, the best they can do is manage and contain. >> aaron david miller, you're always such a wealth of knowledge. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> we appreciate your expertise. that's for sure. up next, we'll take you back

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vossoughian outside the courthouse with danny cevallos and adam pollock. the sandoval hearing is under way, what are we learning? >> reporter: yeah. again, it's about this establishment of a pattern of behavior, right, that we had talked about when we spoke last. and it seems as if one of the attorneys for donald trump who's kind of moved into the main seat during this sandoval hearing is arguing that none of those cases, none of the judgments from prior cases pertain to what they are dealing with now with the hush-money trial. however, the people are arguing that, in fact, those very judgments are what establishes pattern of behavior for the former president and why he would engage in a quote/unquote alleged scheme like the one they are saying he did with the trump hush-money trial. so i think it's going to come down to whether or not the attorneys and donald trump himself feel comfortable in testifying, especially considering what the cross may look like and they're going

after really his character and the judgments that we have been really covering here honestly for the last few years ago, from the trump corporation to the payroll corporation to trump organization to lying under oath. those are all of the things that the people, the attorneys for the people, want to bring up in this case if, in fact, the former president is to take the stand. let me just remind you, as well, that every other time the former president has threatened to take the stand he has, in fact, not. the only time in which he took the stand in the defamation trial with e. jean carroll, he took the stand, and it was about 90 seconds in which that testimony lasted until it finished. >> okay. keep us posted if there's any drama that comes out of this sandoval hearing. danny, yasmin ticked through items on the list that the d.a. has said they want to question trump about. stuff like the civil fraud suit that the ag won in new york recently, the e. jean carroll suits for defamation, again, e.

jean carroll won against donald trump. the judgments that the judges made in those cases, as well as what the findings were from the judge especially in that civil fraud case where the judge said trump violated a gag order and that he had testified under oath untruthfully. they're talking about bringing up the criminal tax fraud prosecution against the trump organization, a lawsuit from years ago that trump had filed against hillary clinton and others that ultimately resulted in sanctions against trump because it was deemed too frivolous and a bathe lawsuit. does all that -- a bad faith lawsuit. does all that sound like fair game? >> what they're bringing up in the priority acts is to get surgical on it, focusing on the untruthfulness that's contained in those acts. it may not be so much the fact that there was a lawsuit with e. jean carroll, it may be the fraudulent or false statements that he made. it isn't so much the fraud trial brought by the new york attorney general, it's that he may have given false or fraudulent

testimony. that's really when we zoom in, that's what the purpose is of this hearing. the prosecution wants to bring in these things insofar as they tend to show his falsity, his pattern of false statements. so that's what they want to bring in. really strateically they really want to back up the dump truck and bring in all the bad evidence that they can about donald trump. and that's not limited to trump as defendant. this has long been the strategy of state prosecutors, federal prosecutors, they always want to bring in bad character evidence because it's so devastatingly effective. that's why we have a rule and we have so many rules at the federal and state level that really limit how much of this comes in and leave it to the judge. in almost every case where this happens you really can't have a blueprint. it's a judgment call because it's a balancing test. and the judge is ultimately going to balance how prejudicial this is against how valuable it is as evidence, what's called the probative effect included with its relevance. but every judge has to balance that out, and there's really no

sure way of knowing. it's one of those things that you know it when you see it, and judge marchand has to make a judgment call on each of these facts that the state wants to bring in. >> adam, what would be a win here for the prosecution then? what is trump's team trying to avoid? >> i think trump's team is going to try to avoid getting any of this in. trump has some great attorneys, some of them are very experienced in state court. but i think that for the prosecution's side, this is a long list. they get in half, they'll be very happy. >> yasmin, what else is happening in the courtroom right now? >> reporter: so hearing from one of the attorneys for the people kind of setting up the centerpiece for this case that i want to read for you. there is a particular need for the people to introduce evidence to assess the defendant's credibility, and they intend to make witness credibility the centerpiece for the trial, and that is an argument for permitting the sandoval evidence. one other thing which is just some color from inside the

courtroom which is kind of seeing how small this courtroom actually is and how closely everybody will be sitting, especially when it comes to testimony from some star witnesses. so you're going to have obviously the former president in that krourt room along with his -- courtroom along with his attorneys. at times maybe michael cohen, karen mcdougal, stormy daniels feet from former president donald trump when this trial gets up and going next week. >> thanks. danny, do you think that there's any way donald trump ends up testifying? regardless of what happens at this sandoval hearing. >> i usually just play the odds. in i'm playing the odds, the odds are that he will help testify. every defendant has a constitutional absolute right to take the stand. and i can tell you that criminal defense attorneys will tell you that frequently, at the outset of a trial, their clients will say i'm taking the stand, i'm getting up there, i'm telling my story, and as the trial goes on and witness after witness testifies against them, a lot of those defendants will get cold feet and change their mind.

the decision whether or not to testify is often a day of or the night before decision, no matter who has said what leading up to that moment. you have to be able to make changes and decisions on the fly when you're defending an important case like this or any criminal case. and the defendant who plans to testify at the outset may change his tune when it's really time to take the stand. >> we've got less than a minute, but i want to pivot quickly because this was just handed to me. this new filing by the new york attorney general ahead of a bond hearing for trump in that civil fraud case that's coming on monday. adam, you had a chance to at least go through this real quickly. what did you learn? what is this? >> so the attorney general had brought their civil fraud case, won a $450 million judgment which trump is appealing. during the appeal ordinarily the ny ag could begin seizing assets, and trump was able to post a bond to stop the enforcement. the new york attorney general in this filing is saying that bond is uncredible, it does not

secure the judgment, and they're going to have a hearing on that. if the judge finds that the bond is ineffective, the ag shortly thereafter will be able to seize assets again. >> wow. thank you so much for explaining that, again, that bond hearing on monday. we may have trump opening statements in the new york hush-money trial, as well, on monday. so many balls in the air right now that we're all juggling. we'll stay on top of it here on msnbc. thank you so much, danny, adam, for being with us, yasmin, thank you so much for your great reporting out the courthouse. that's going to do it for us this hour. i'm ana cabrera from new york. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. we made it to friday. it's 4:00 in new york on a very busy day of developments at the courthouse in manhattan where day four of the people