there's no doubt about it. we just love her in different ways. >> we want the best for her. they want the best for her. that's our goal, is to be the best for her. this is her life. >> of course, amy's parents, ricky's parents, wanted the best once before, as all parents do. could anyone have seen into those mean girl minds before two families paid the price? i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. >> that's icall for this editio of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. this sunday, striking back. iran retaliates against israel launching more than 300 drones

and iran retaliates against israel, launching more than 300 drones and missiles and warning the u.s. about getting involved. >> this is a severe and dangerous escalation. >> is the war now expanding into a wider conflict? i'll talk to national security council spokesman john kirby and republican congressman mike turner, the chair of the house intelligence committee. plus, abortion battlegrounds. >> the states will be making the decision. >> shame on you! >> the fight over abortion access intensifies after arizona's supreme court reinstates a 160-year-old law banning nearly all abortions. >> we broke roe v. wade, and we did something that nobody thought was possible. >> donald trump struggles to define his position on reproductive rights while r democrats see a political opportunity. >> donald trump is the architect of this health care crisis. >> how will the abortion issue shape the 2024 election? i'll talk to democratic governor

gretchen whitmer of michigan. and criminal defendant. donald trump's first criminal trial is set to begin in manhattan. >> all i can do is tell the truth and the truth is there's no case. they have no case. >> how will it impact the 2024 campaign? c joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news washington managing editor carol lee. "wall street journal" columnist peggy noonan, and "washington post"on columnist eugene robins. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." ♪♪ >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker.gt good sunday morning. the world is waking up to a new inflexion point in the war in the middle east. overnight iran mounted a wide-scale aerial attack on israel, launching more than 300 drones and missiles in retaliation for israel's air n strike on iran's consulate in syria two weeks ago that killed seven members of iran's

revolutionary guard, including two top commanders. this is the first time iran has directly attacked israel from its own territory. the israeli military with this forceful response. >> iran has launched a direct attack from iranian soil towards the state of israel. f this is a severe and dangerous escalation. >> now, according to israeli defense forces, 99% of the missiles and drones were intercepted by israeli and u.s. forces. a few fell inside israeli territory. the strikes caused minor damage to one israeli military base and severely injured a young child. urgent efforts of diplomacy are expected to intensify. president biden will convene a meeting of the group of seven leaders today. on saturday he spoke with israeli prime minister netanyahu and reaffirmed america's ironclad commitment to the security of israel.

a senior administration tells nbc news he urged netanyahu not to retaliate, but, quote, take the win. you've hit the win. for its part, israel's defense minister says its confrontation with iran is not over yet, and already republican rhetoric is ratcheting up. >> israel's response -- and there should be a response -- should not be proportion at. it should be far stronger because when deterrence fails to re-establish it you have to teach the adversary that any gain they may hope to get by any future attack would be more than outweighed by the damage that ae will be caused. >> joining me now is national m security council spokesman john kirby. john, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks, kristen. good to be with you. >> thank you so much for being here. iran says this attack is over. israel's defense minister says k the confrontation is not. what is the united states' assessment of where things stand this morning?or is this over? >> where things stand this morning is just an incredible

military achieven't be israel and, quiet frankly, the united states and other partners that helped israel defend itself against 300 drones and missiles. it's an extraordinary example of military superior that israel demonstrated to the whole world and israel demonstrated that it has friends, that it's not standing alone and it's not isolated on the world stage. now whether and how the israelis will respond, that's going to be up to them and we understand that and respect that, but the president's been very clear, we don't seek a war with iran and we're not looking for escalation here. we will continue to help israel defend itself. >> are you, as we sit here right now, aware of any threats to u.s. troops in the region? >> we are staying vigilant to exactly that potential threat, but we have not seen any attacks on u.s. troops or personnel in the region or facilities and nothing to report to you this morning, but we will obviously watch that very, very closely. >> just to get a sense of how ho this came together, did the

united states have any back-channel communications with iran if only to deacon flict the escalations with syria? >> obviously in the lead-up to what happened yesterday -- >> there were back channel communications? >> we made it clear to all parties including iran to what we would do and how we would continue to defend israel and how seriously we would take any potential threat to our personnel and facilities in the region. an tte >> a lot of people watched what happened in the skies over the middle east overnight, and they are wondering this morning has this now escalated into a wider war? >> i don't think there's any reason that it needs to. is >> but has it? are we now in the midst of a wider war? >> the president doesn't believe that it needs to move in that direction whatsoever, kristen. what israel demonstrated last night was an incredible ability

to defend itself. just their own military superiority was quite remarkable yesterday. ir i mean, very little got through, and the damage was extraordinarily light, and also israel demonstrated again that they're not standing alone and they have friends. we don't want to see this escalate. we're not looking for a wider war with iran. te i think -- i think that in the coming hours and days will tell us a lot. >> what's your response to americans who see those missiles being intercepted in the skies overnight and believe that this has already escalated? >> i would ask the americans that saw what happened last a night to take heart in terms of the military forces in the region and how they are defending themselves and defending our interests in the region, and also i reiterate what i said before, know that the president is working the diplomatic side of this personally. in fact, today, just a little

bit later today he's going to call the g7 together to talk about a diplomatic response here.t,t >> nbc news is reporting that president biden, talking about the diplomatic outreach, told prime minister netanyahu that the united states will not participate in offensive operations against iran. can you confirm that? >> i won't go into the greater detail of the conversation with the prime minister. they did have a good conversation. >> what was the message? what was the broad message? >> it was very clearly that we stand with you in your self-defense, and that was the message that the president delivered to the prime minister. he congratulated the prime minister and the idf for the extraordinary job they did knocking things out of the sky, but i won't go into more detail and i'll go to what the president said time and time again. we don't seek an escalation or wider war in the region. hemi >> did he warn israel not to respond? did he say take the win as was reported? >> i think the president was very clear with prime minister netanyahu about the success that they enjoyed last night and the

impact that that success ought to have. >> are you anticipating a counterattack by israel and do you expect, has israel given the united states any assurances that it will give the u.s. a warning, a heads-up before it moves forward with a counterattack? >> whether and how the israelis will response is up to them. i'm not going to get ahead with decision making. >> if they move ahead with no retaliatory strikes, are you concerned that he will not be responsibility about it given that the united states was not given a heads off before israel lobbed an attack against iranian officials? >> we are and will stay in touch with the israeli counterparts so the information flow is as robust as policy. >> well, if israel decides to move forward with retaliatory strikes, will the united states support israel, or will israel be going it alone?

>> i won't get into a hypothetical since they're they've not made a decision about what the next step was. they performed extraordinarily i well last night, and it was really a largely unsuccessful attack by iran. that is noteworthy and that should be remembered. and, again, as i said earlier, it wasn't that they didn't do it alone. they had the united states' support, and as the president said to the prime minister last night, that support for israel's self-defense will stay ironclad. it will not change. >> some republican lawmakers are calling for the united states to respond directly to iran. has president biden ruled out the u.s. launching a direct attack? >> as i said, the president has made it clear. we do not seek a war with iran. we don't seek -- >> is a direct attack off the table?foide on is it off the table? >> as the president said, we don't seek a war with iran. >> what is the redline that

would cause the united states to get directly involved? >> my goodness, if we sit here all day about what is or isn't a redline, i don't think it's helpful to get into hypotheticals. let's focus on the tank at hand and it was to fend off hundreds of drones and missiles and they did that successfully. >> given that it did counter a number of those drones that were directed toward israel?on w >> yes, that was a purely defensive mission. it was completely consistent with our obligations and our commitments to the defense of israel. and, again, kristen, it wasn't just us. other nations participated as well. >> how many drones or missiles did the u.s. shoot out of the sky? >> i don't know the final tally. the department of defense will look at that. it is safe to say several dozens of drones and missiles that the united states helped down. >> president biden said prime ro minister netanyahu's actions in gaza are, quote, a mistake. do you trust his judgment? in deciding how to respond to these attacks. >> he's the prime minister. he's the elected leader of his

government. we're going to continuede to wo with him, advise him, and provide counsel and perspective, and he knows and he does from last night know that the united states will continue to help them defend themselves. there is still a very dire humanitarian situation in gaza and after the last call, not last night, but the one before that with the prime minister, the prime minister assured the president that he would work to meet some of the president's requests with respect to increasing aid, opening up additional crossings, getting he more trucks in, and you know what, kristen? in the last few days, that has happened. something on the order of 2,000 trucks have gotten in just since the discussion with prime minister netanyahu a week ago. is it enough? no, but the israelis are trying to make good on those commitments. >> i don't need to tell you this, but the house has not yet passed aid to israel and ukraine. given what has happened

overnight in the middle east does that add urgency? what is your message to house lawmakers today.gh should they be putting that supplemental this week? >> they should put it on the y floor as soon as possible. last night as if we didn't need reminders about what was going on in ukraine. last night certainly underscores the threat that israel faces in a very, very tough neighborhood. there's a bipartisan bill by the senate that all the house needs to do is take it up, put it on the floor, and you and i both know the votes are there. but we're looking for leadership out of the speaker's office and get it on the floor and let's get it voted on so not just israel can get what it needs. >> john kirby, thank you so much for being here this morning. really appreciate it. >> yes, ma'am. when we come back, the fbi director is warning events on the middle east can inspire attacks on u.s. toil. republican congressman mike turner of ohio, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, joins me next. intelle committee, joins me next

>> yes, ma'am. >> yes, ma'am.

welcome back. fbi director christopher wray warned this week the bureau is growing increasingly concerned about the possibility of a coordinated attack instiet the united states inspired by the events in the middle east. >> as i look back over my career in law enforcement, i would be hard pressed to think of a time where so many threats to our public safety and national security were so elevated all at once. >> joining me now is the republican chair of the house intelligence committee congressman mike turner of ohio. chairman turner, welcome back to "meet the press." >> kristen, thanks for having me. >> thank you so much for being here. let's start with the breaking news overnight, those strikes by iran against israel that were largely intercepted. what is your reaction this morning? >> well, obviously, the united states had advanced notice that this was going to occur and worked with israel in preparation.

i was briefed by the cia director friday of the preparations and the information that the united states was receiving. i think john kirby, though, articulated very well due to your questions the unfortunate fallacies in the biden administration's policies. the united states and israel jointly developed missile defense technology that went to work last night, and it was proven to be successful, and it was de-escalatory, and it gives us space to make appropriate decisions. and the biden administration's rue is that the missile defense didn't happen, and that's the way they reacted to the over 100 attacks have occurred from u.s. troops, from terrorist groups,

and organizations in iraq and syria that resulted in three deaths of american troops in jordan and all by iranian-backed groups and organizations. they need to take seriously that this attack has happened, it's unprecedented and certainly it needs to be viewed as an escalation. this is an escalating conflict. >> congressman, very quickly, though, i do have to push back because, of course, those attacks that you referenced the united states did carry out counterattacks, more than a hundred of them and then those attacks by those iranian-backed groups did come to a close, but i do want to ask you what you think should happen next. >> that's not necessarily true, but what the biden administration said is if there are deaths, if american troops are hit, they're going to respond. over a hundred attacks on american troops, and they did not respond. you heard john kirby articulate the defense was successful, and almost as if a dismissal of the fact that iran has attacked is rile directly. >> and what he said was that he does not want to see this escalate into a wider war. so let me put this question to

you and again, the united states did respond to those attacks with more than a hundred counterattacks. israel is saying the war cabinet minister benny gantz said we will exact a price in iran in a fashion and timing that is right for us. do you expect israel to respond? should israel respond? >> even though these attacks are unprecedented coming directly from iran. israel has been under attack by iran for decades. they fund and train hezbollah, they fund and train hamas which undertook the october 7th attacks into israel that were vicious in a number of deaths and the manner in which it was executed, all as a result of it being trained, funded, and given weapons by iran. this has already been an ongoing conflict that israel understands it is under siege and under attack by iran, and it is the first time that they've attacked

directly from iran. and certainly this is an escalation, and i think john kirby is wrong to say we don't want an escalating conflict. it is already escalating, and the administration needs to respond. >> so you believe this has become a wider war within the middle east this morning? that is what you are saying? >> over 300 weapons were shot from iran at israel. this is an escalating conflict. the administration, because we were successful, because we invested in missile defense technology with israel, the administration is acting like, well, done. we defended israel against these attacks. this is not escalating. this is escalating. >> well, john kirby wasn't necessarily saying done. he was saying let's not escalate this further. but let me ask you about what your republican colleagues are saying because i would like to get specific about what you would like to see, congressman. some of your republican colleagues say this calls for the united states to respond directly by striking iran. would you support that? should the united states go on offense and strike iran and engage directly with iran?

>> i think what the united states needs to do is to understand that iran has already taken the next step -- excuse me -- of understanding that they get a free pass for attacking israel directly from iranian soil from the united states. >> so is that a yes? is that a yes, congressman? you're saying -- >> i believe that they will do it again, and i think the united states needs to make clear -- which this administration has not -- that if they continue to attack israel that, yes, they will get a response from iran. iran is in a vulnerable position. first off, it should never be allowed to be a nuclear state. this administration gave it $6 billion to release detainees. >> those assets were frozen. as you know, those were iranian funds and the assets are now frozen. let me ask you this -- >> this administration permitted

iran to have access to $6 billion it did not have access to it didn't before. >> it hasn't made its way to iran. >> this failed to recognize that iran is an adversary and it's an adversary to israel. it is coordinating hezbollah, hamas, the houthis, yemen, and the attacks on commercial waterways. the administration continues to look the other way and failed to recognize that this is escalating and they're going to have to step up to the plate. >> the administration has done what you've said that they should do, which is to warn that there will be countermeasures if iran continues to escalate. i'm asking you, what should be done right now? donald trump's former national security adviser john bolton called on israel to destroy iran's nuclear weapons program. would you support that? >> first off, israel shouldn't and the united states have made it very clear that iran should never be permitted to become a nuclear weapon state. this administration, however, has been very slow to step up to

that declaration. they have instead worked to try to engage iran and failed to seat it as an adversary as really the malicious force that is destabilizing the middle east. while iran was destabilizing in the middle east, they continued to work with iran around i think they're emboldening iran. this administration is failing to say there is a redline. there should be a redline. >> congressman, after donald trump pulled out of the iran nuclear deal iran is closer to developing a nuclear weapon. can you just answer my question? would you support that? would you support israel targeting iran's nuclear weapons program, just on that question? would you support israel doing that? >> i was answering to you before, iran is very vulnerable both in its nuclear weapons sites and even if its weapons production site. those weapons showing up in iran

and the hands of russians and in oil export facilities. it is in a very vulnerable position. if israel sees that it has to rise to the occasion to attack iran directly in order to protect itself, certainly the united states supports israel having a right to defend itself. it continues to produce weapons capabilities that they're exporting to europe. they have their proxies that are attacking israel, shipping commercial lanes, they -- they are escalating while this administration continues to deny it. >> congressman, bottom line, do you want to see u.s. military action against iran or israel take a countermeasure against iran? >> i don't think at this point that the united states should be engaged in military action directly at iran, but i do believe if this administration fails to step up to the plate and understand that we have an escalating conflict and make it

clear to iran that there are redlines and that the united states will defend israel and will not allow iran to become a weapon state, that we will be in a broader conflict and we will have less options. their failure to box in iran and let them understand that there will be consequences make it more dangerous every day. >> as you know, this aid package that would provide aid to israel but also ukraine has been held up, has been blocked by former president trump. do you want to see the house speaker bring this to the floor for a vote this week, and has he given you any assurances that he will do so? >> it's not been held up by donald trump, let's be clear. it's being held up in the house by debates and deliberations and the house of representatives. i think that the speaker has been very clear. he supports ukraine funding, he supports funding for israel and the asia package that's part of the national security

supplemental, and he's made it clear that he sees that the path is for that to come to the house floor this week. i think it will have overwhelming support both for ukraine, israel and asia packages and not just because of what happened with iran escalating and the conflict in the middle east and because these are allies that need and deserve our support. >> donald trump has been on the sidelines saying he doesn't see that aid go in the form of a loan. >> very quickly, do you expect it to get a vote this week, congressman? >> i do, and i expect it to pass. and, by the way, donald trump has said the humanitarian -- the other -- the support to the ukrainian government on the weapons be the military support, everyone has been very much on the side of understanding that we're at a critical point. russia is beginning to gain ground. ukraine is beginning to lose the ability to lose the ability to defend itself and the u.s. must step up and provide the weapons they need and we'll see overwhelming support for that in the house this week. >> chairman turner, i have more questions, but we are out of time. thank you so much for joining me, i really appreciate it. >> kristen, thank you so much.

when we come back, democratic governor gretchen whitmer of michigan joins me next. of michigan joins me next mocratic governor hi, i'm david, and i lost 92 pounds on golo. my life partner connie and i were in really rough shape regarding our health. and our doctors told us that we needed to lose weight. i saw a golo commercial and i thought, "we really need to try this." as the weeks went by, the weight came off. we learned to make healthy choices and be supportive of each other. together, we've lost 170 pounds. golo worked for us. since losing weight on golo, i'm feeling grateful and hopeful about the future. (energizing music)

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welcome back. now to the issue that could be a defining one for the 2024 election. abortion. this week we were reminded of its power and potency when on tuesday the arizona supreme court reinstated an 1864 law that bans nearly all abortions, making the presidential battleground state ground zero for the fight over reproductive rights. democrats wasted no time seizing on a moment. vice president kamala harris traveled to arizona on monday and blasted the ban while putting the blame squarely on former president trump who appointed the three conservative supreme court justices who made it possible to overturn roe v. wade. >> donald trump is the architect of this health care crisis, and that is not a fact, by the way, that he hides.

in fact, he brags about it. just this week he said that he is, quote, proudly the person responsible for overturning roe. >> for his part, the presumptive gop nominee has consistently struggled to define where he stands on the issue. after initially saying this week abortion is an issue that states will decide, trump then said the arizona supreme court went too far, and he aimed to distance himself from supporting a national ban. >> president biden would you sign a national abortion bill? >> no. >> but has president trump endorsed a 20-week federal ban on abortion back in 2017? it's trump's latest issue on aboorks in a political career marked by a number of them. >> would president trump ban a partial-birth abortion? >> i am very pro-choice.

i hate the concept of abortion. i hate it. i hate everything it stands for and i cringe when i hear people debating the subject, but i still just believe in choice. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is there has to be some sort of punishment. >> for the woman. >> yes. >> the justices that i'm going to appoint will be pro-life, they will have a conservative bent. >> unborn children have never had a stronger defender in the white house. >> so for 52 years people have wanted to end roe v. wade, to give it back to the states. we did that. it was an incredible thing, an incredible achievement. we did that, and now the states have it. >> meanwhile, a year after the dobbs decision, more than 60% of voters disapproved of the supreme court overturning roe v. wade. so where does the battle over abortion go from here? joining me now is the democratic governor of michigan, gretchen whitmer. governor whitmer, welcome back to "meet the press."

>> thanks for having me. >> well, governor, thank you for being here on a big morning. former president trump held a rally last night. he did not mention the issue of abortion, but earlier this week he noted that abortion laws are left up to the states. he said he wouldn't support a national ban. how concerned are you that his efforts to straddle the line could effectively weaken this issue for democrats? >> well, i think your phraseology "straddle the line" is generous. he's lied over and over again to the people of this country. the only person who should be making a decision about whether and when to have a child is a woman, the people she loves and trusts, and her doctor, period. politicians need to get out of the way, and the american people have over and over again told us that those are their exact expectations.

so as i speak to people in my state and around the country, it's very clear, abortion is not just on the ballot in places like arizona and florida. it is on the ballot in all 50 states because a former president has said many different times that he would sign a national abortion ban, and that's really a very real possibility that would undo all of the progress we've made in states like michigan, ohio, kentucky, et cetera. this is on the ballot for every one of us on this presidential election. >> governor, you take me to my next question, which is do you think that president biden should make this the defining issue above all others in 2024 on the campaign trail? >> well, i think that this at the heart of so many americans' concerns. >> our fundamental freedoms as americans and our ability to make the most consequential economic decision in our lifetime is whether and when to have a child. it is the ability for the infertile couple so many millions of whom have relied on

emt embryonic in vitro fertilization. all of these things are very much at risk, and i know that it is at the heart and center of people who want desperately to start families and who desperately need access to medical care and our choice could not be more stark. we have a president right now who is standing between a national abortion ban and has used his powers to expand access for women in this country, and the guy who approved three lying supreme court justices to the bench who are the architects of the roe repeal, and let's be very clear, donald trump did this. >> just to be very clear, should president biden make this the number one issue? should abortion be the number one issue in 2024? >> well, abortion, the fundamentals of our democracy, whether or not we can be safe here, whether or not we will continue to rebuild american manufacturing and bring supply chains home. i mean, it's hard to say what

one issue is more important than others when there are so many fundamental issues that are at stake, and we've got two candidates that couldn't be more different on all of these issues, but i do think that the fundamental right to make your own decisions about your body is going to be the number one this country. >> governor, president biden said if he is re-elected he will codify roe v. wade. as you know it is highly unlikely he will have 60 votes in the senate to do that. is the president offering false hopes at this point? >> i think the president has been very clear that he absolutely supports this fundamental reproductive freedom for all americans, and he'll do everything in his power. you know, we thought in ohio it might be real difficult to get abortion rights codified. they surprised us. so i'm not going to foresee and predict what the odds are, but i can tell you we have seen this issue has motivated people because they know that this is a

fundamental question of who we are as a society and how we're going to empower americans to do what they need to do to protect their health, to grow their families, to make their own decisions in their own lives, and politicians should get the heck out of the way. >> let me ask you about the policy and the less than 1% of the abortions occur after fetal viability. where do you stand on this, governor? should there be any limits on abortion after viability, which usually falls somewhere between 24 and 26 weeks? >> you know, the roe standard did have that, and that's precisely what we've been fighting for. >> do you support that, governor? just to be clear, do you support limitations after viability? >> i would support the roe standard becoming the law of the nation again. that's exactly where i'm at. i know that's where most americans are, but i will also share with you, kristen. i am not a doctor. i would rely on medical advice

in my experience. it is only the women and the person who is giving her her medical advice, a scientist, that should be articulating what the standards are in this space. >> i ask in part because former president trump has falsely accused democrats wanting abortion up until birth. do you think that democrats need to more clearly define where they stand on this part of the debate on where limits should be? >> i think what we should be do is be holding donald trump accountable. let's remember the reason that we're in this mess is because of his appointees to the supreme court. thee people lied to congress who said roe was the law of the land. he put them on the court and they are the reason that roe was ripped away from americans. they've lied to us. he has lied to us. you cannot trust anything donald

trump says about this issue or, frankly, in my opinion, a whole host of others, and that's precisely why i think it is so important that we re-elect joe biden and kamala harris to the white house because they're the only ones you can trust on this issue. their position has been rock solid. they trust women and medical providers and that's the only people who should be making these decisions. >> let's talk about what is happening in the middle east. approximately 60% of michigan voters disapprove of president biden's handling of the war in gaza. >> your state has the largest arab-american population in the country. less than 20% of arab-americans nationally say that they will vote to re-elect president biden. do you think this issue, president biden's handling of the war in the middle east, could cost him the state of michigan? >> i think that the state of

michigan is always going to be a close race no matter under what scenario. i will share as i've had conversations with people both in my jewish community and the arab-american and muslim and palestinian communities that a lot of people are hurting right now. a lot of people are one degree of separation from someone who has lost their lives whether it was on october 7th or is in war in gaza. so i'm trying to keep an open dialogue to stay focused on how we support the beautiful diverse communities here in michigan, and i'm hoping for peace, but obviously after the events of the last 24 hours there is a lot that is evolving here, and i am glad to see that our president said he remains -- we have an ironclad commitment to the security of israel. >> some democrats including from your state are calling the war in gaza a genocide. would you go that far? do you believe that what is happening inside gaza is a genocide? >> i think that it's heartbreaking to see the loss of so many innocent lives, children every day that this war continues to be prosecuted, and

that's why as governor, as commander in chief of the michigan national guard, are watching us very closely and doing what i can to support all of these communities here in michigan. >> but you don't go that far to accuse that term, "genocide." >> i'm not going to weigh in where i know a lot of these terms use to inflame and divide us and i'm being productive and hope to have some peace very soon. >> i want to ask you about what the country will be watching this week. former president trump's criminal trial will get underway in new york in manhattan for allegedly falsifying business records to attempt to conceal payments to a porn star. we should note that mr. trump has denied any wrongdoing in this case. do you think the biden campaign, which is currently planning to counterprogram these criminal trials, should be leaning in more directly and talking about trump's trials directly? >> you know, i am not sure, kristen. to be honest, we are in unprecedented territory. we have a former sitting president who's got four

different criminal trials in process. this one's kicking off. we keep referring to it as hush money, but i like how you actually went a step further to explain to people he lied on his business financials. the man is loyal to one thing. the truth is not it. it is donald trump. the story changes. he has betrayed his oath of office. he betrayed his post-partem wife and their new child. he has betrayed the people that invested in his companies and the people who worked for him. this is one more very clear reason why i don't think we can trust this man with our future, with our democracy, and certainly with our fundamental rights. >> all right. governor gretchen whitmer, thank you so much for joining us. we really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. and when we come back, from the bronco chase to the

televised trial how the o.j.simpson murder trial captivated the nation. our "meet the press" minute is next. nation. our "meet the press" minute is next

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shipstation saves us so much time it makes it really easy and seamless pick an order print everything you need slap the label on ito the box and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free o.j. simpson died this week. the former nfl running back was, of course, best known for that low-speed car chase in 1994 when 95 million americans watched his white ford bronco flee from police across los angeles just days after the murders of his ex-wife nicole brown simpson and her friend ronald goldman. then there was the trial of the century in which simpson was acquitted.

it redefined celebrity trials in the age of cable television. bob costas was a longtime sportscaster with nbc. he worked with simpson and joined this broadcast as his former colleague was preparing to stand trial. >> this is a tragedy that has, i guess, almost inevitably in this mass media age and cameras in the courtroom and tabloid television and the way mainstream television and the press is affected by that tabloid influence, it's a tragedy that has rapidly become a spectacle, but we have to keep in mind a horrible crime has been committed. there are two victims. a man is on trial for his life. as shocking as the accusations against o.j. remain and even as we've had time to digest it, to those of us who knew him, i think the only thing a reasonable person hopes for is that justice will be served, whatever the outcome is, that

justice will be served, not evaded or obscured by a peripheral issue. when we come bam, he's falsifying business records. donald trump's first trial is under way on monday in manhattan. the panel joins me next. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month.

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welcome back. the panel i welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news washington managing editor carol lee, eugene robinson, columnist for "the washington post," and peggy noonan, columnist for "the wall street journal." carol, let's talk about iran for the moment. in the context, all of this is taking place against the backdrop of the 2024 race. this is undoubtedly yet another contour, and you have new reporting that the united states has deep concerns about how israel may respond. >> they do. they're very concerned, administration officials, that israelis could respond by doing something rash.

there's been a lot of frustration among top officials that israel took this strike initially in damascus because from the administration's perspective, they did so without having a strategy, without thinking through the timing of the strike. what happens next after the strike. and, you know, one official described israel's approach to military operations generally as frenetic. it's the same concern with the way israel's conducted the war, this way of shoot first, ask questions later, and so what we've seen over the past two weeks is a real effort across the region of diplomacy to try to shape what happens next here, and from their perspective, their goal was they knew iran had to respond, that iran would respond, and do so in a way that it didn't cause too much damage so israel didn't have to react in a very aggressive way. and it seems to have played out like that so far, but they don't

know what will happen next and what prime minister netanyahu will do in the course of the president taking the win. >> i know you'll be tracking that very closely. we all will be because again, it will have implications for 2024. peggy, another thing that will have big implications for 2024, the trump trial. >> yes. >> there could be more than one, but we know that his first one gets under way tomorrow for those alleged falsified business payments that he made to an adult porn star. he has denied any wrongdoing. i want to the play a little about what he said about this at his rally overnight in pennsylvania. take a look. >> when i walk into that courtroom, i know that i will have the love of 200 million americans behind me, and i consider it a great badge of honor, because i am being indicted for you. >> you have written that bringing the charges against the former president in this case was, quote, below us as a country. what do you mean? what are you going to be watching for? >> oh, my gosh. one always hopes it's below us, if you know what i mean.

i mean, we're going to have, like, six weeks of headlines and talking about porn star, hush money, who knew it, dramatic testimony, steamy stuff. i'm not sure that does any good. i prefer the january 6th investigation and the serious georgia case. that said, this is happening. some areas of curiosity, how long will it go? i hope it doesn't go like o.j.'s, nine months. what impact will it have that the former president will be in the court, but will -- but the testimony will not be live on tv. i don't suppose this is the sort of thing that is going to make our children more inspired about democracy. i do think the charges are probably by and large true, it we'll work through the system, and we'll see where it goes.

>> what will you be watching for? >> trump will use it as a chance to argue this is a two-tiered system of justice, and this was brought by a grand jury. >> brought by a grand jury and yeah. it's a two-tiered system of justice. so if you are wealthy and famous, you can delay the proceedings, you know, indefinitely as he has done with his other criminal trials. you can hire really good lawyers and apparently, you can -- if not violate them certainly skirt the edges of court orders by insulting over and over again attacking the judge, the judge's family, other people connected with the case. you can talk about the case constantly in a way, frankly, that a defendant who was less wealthy and famous and powerful than donald trump would never

get away with. we're talking contempt of court and a lot of defendants would step back to themselves. >> he has a partial gag order against him in a lot of questions over whether he's violated that. carol, it with us so notable. i asked gretchen whitmer should biden be leaning into that directly. i'm not sure he's not going to. he will do the counterprogramming thing. and, by the way, some democrats don't think that's the right strategy. >> that's exactly right. one strategist told us that they think the president should go on the offense on this, that he should be hitting back specifically for president trump that he's behind this and it's to sideline him from campaigning. what the white house has decided to do, the biden campaign, is put the dueling images out there. you will have trump in court and president biden in pennsylvania over three days talking about the economy and hitting former president trump on his tax proposals saying that he would benefit the wealthy and the

president is fighting for the middle class and all the while having his campaign keep up the pressure on the abortion issue. again, it's a risk and not something all democrats agree on. >> yeah, i think it will be fascinating to see if he gets more pressure to lean into this a little more directly. arguable's, i think, one of the biggest x factors as we sit here today is the issue of abortion. in your report, carol, you say abortion could make up the margin of difference in this case. peggy, how do you see this? trump has tried to have it a number of different ways, he thinks arizona went too far, but he wants a national ban. how do you see this playing out? >> look, donald trump has always been transactional. oddly enough, a lot of his pro-life supporters understood he was transactional, didn't mind it because they liked the transaction. i think we are watching donald trump every day try to get from under the implications of his

own act having set up the process by which roe versus wade was removed. trump wanted it returned to the states, the states seem to have made an awkward mess of it in some respects. he wants to get away from the mess, and so now he's doing what he does. he's a transactional fellow. one thing i would tell the democrats, i sense that they are just going abortion, abortion, abortion and that's the plan for the next six months. that's not going to look so great. don't overplay your hand. they've got public opinion at the moment, but -- >> what about that? >> it looks like a pretty strong hand to me. if you look at elections that have taken place, the referenda on reproductive rights, elections in which candidates were on different sides of the abortion issue since the demise of roe v. wade, they have gone

pretty heavily toward the democrats, and you know, i think this is something that the republican party is going to have to try to figure out. how do they get to where the american people are on abortion, which is basically the acknowledgement of a constitutional right. >> a lot of republicans talking about how to do exactly that. thank you all for a phenomenal conversation. that is all for today. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪ okay, so they launched more than 100 ballistic missiles. how man