you were dreaming about, go ahead. >> about 15 years ago, i was at a coffee shop and everyone in the coffee shop was looking at the phone and i realized i didn't have to cut our hands off, they just put it in her hands. at that point, i realized i had to wrap up my work in this dystopia and i realized that, i found that the way through it is through hearing tone appeared underneath everything is tone. it just led me into a whole new phase of my life. that is all the time we have for today but we will be right back here tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern. stay tuned for the weekend, enjoy the rest of your saturday. saturday. good morning. it is saturday, april 13th.

i'm alecia menendez with symone sanders townsend and michael steele. today, donald trump's first criminal trial begins in 48 hours. we will have an exclusive conversation with the ex- president former effexor, michael cohen, his only interview. then the architect of this crisis. vice president harris slams trumps abortion record and the harsh ban in arizona. and republican efforts to impeach secretary mayorkas . settle in, welcome to the weekend. weekend.

developing overnight, house speaker micah johnson, one of the republicans most responsible for donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election met the former president to cast doubt on the 2024 election, stoking fears about something that is already illegally. what you are about to watch and here is a lie. >> there are so many millions of illegals the country that if only 1 out of 100 voted, they would cast potentially hundreds of thousands of votes in the election. >> here are the facts. the conservative heritage foundation found 89 instances of legal action involving nonecitizens put in between 2003 and 2023. 89 instances over 20 years. joining us now, former illinois congressman and 2020 presidential candidate, joe walsh. good morning, sir. >> joe, the lies keep coming, they just keep coming. and, the fact is, heritage, and, the pantheon of conservative -- >> no liberal think tank. >> exactly. these guys laid out, they did the study. 89 instances of illegal

immigrants voting in elections. why do they continue to perpetuate the lie? what is the endgame here, aside from trenton, down to get some cover on his behind? the reality of it is they are there to promote the set up for 2024, right, am i wrong, am i missing something ? >> they are trying to scare donald trump supporters. the endgame is violence. it is absurd, right, that donald trump is talking about election integrity but, michael, the scary, serious, dangerous point is trump wants violence. he did this in 2020. i will never forget when i was in my talk radio days in may of 2020, he first said before the election either i will win or it will be stolen from me. he is doing that now. >> on steroids.

>> on steroids and what he's doing is he's fomenting, again, anger and unrest among his supporters so that if he loses, there will be violence. think about what i just said. the republican nominee for president, michael, what's there to be violence if he loses. >> this is the space we are in. what is the countermeasure? what do we see our countermeasures? symone has this look. >> what is the countermeasure to crazy, try to steal an election? what is the countermeasure to the false claims ? what is the countermeasure to the lies ? one could argue truth and lie, honey, i don't know, he just keeps telling it. this is insane because it is already, it is not legal to vote if you are not a citizen of the united states of america. congress has already passed legislation for that we back before you know i could even go to school, okay? back in the 90s i think they

did this, right, michael? we joke about this all the time. now, according to, after donald trump and his insurrection body, the speaker of the house micah johnson, after they had their meeting, now, apparently, house republicans are going to pursue legislation requiring proof of citizenship to vote. the question is, who, we are going to show proof to susie at the polling place? how is susie going to verify, are we asking people to bring their papers? this is america. i just want to know, is this what all of the house republicans want to leave their chips on, even in districts joe biden one in 2020 ? >> what strikes me is this is the longtail of a longtime republican effort to make it harder to vote because they know some of those requirements, having to show a license, they disproportionately impact communities of color and they also disproportionately impact older americans and that is the part you would think republicans would be more

attuned to strategically. >> i think the bigger, broader, scarier point, alicia, is it this is all to read this trust in our elections process. make no mistake, i still engage with the republican party base every single day. i know 70 to 80% of them don't believe biden will be won. the hard-core base, the 40 to 50%, they no longer trust our elections. trump is doing this on purpose. distrust then will lead to violence. it happened in 2020. >> let's zoom out, can we talk about why micah johnson is visiting the president at mar-a- lago and the position he finds in something ? would i forecast this when he took over the speakership. >> because he is weak and the strongest -- >> by design. >> the weakest, the starkest person in the united states congress today is marjorie taylor greene, not him. >> starkest republican. >> focus republican. >> i most called him speaker

hakeem jeffries. >> the strongest republican in the caucus is marjorie taylor greene, not micah johnson. everyone in the room knows it. he goes to mar-a-lago, very much like kevin mccarthy had to go to mar-a-lago, to get the appropriate blessings so as to save the bacon. now, the reality of evan mccarthy was he went down after january 6th but he couldn't go again because donald trump was done with him. right now, donald trump sees probably micah johnson as a much more useful player for him than marjorie taylor greene because if he wanted him gone, he would have just unleashed and marjorie taylor greene would've put the bill in with privilege, in which case the seat would be vacant. there is a little bit of that kind of effect that donald trump has but the reality for johnson is he needs trump more than trump needs him.

>> he is weak and trump strong. when mccarthy went down right after january 6th, that it was weirdly one of trumps weakest moments and mccarthy still went down there. >> and gave trump the power. >> can we just talk for a minute how remarkable it is that an unelected individual, okay, is currently holding the reins to the united states congress question that donald trump is not the president. i can't even believe i have to keep saying that. donald trump is not the president. yet, with one social media post, because we can't call it a truth. that is what we call his posts now, with one post on his social site, with one phone call, he can upend what the caucus is doing. i did meet the press now yesterday and i was sitting next to mark short, he was the alleged affairs director at the white house under trump and i was like i forgot about that part and he said he would wake

up some mornings and donald trump would have treated while he was president and he has members calling himself and i thought he supported the bill, why is he treating this? so, this is, it's like groundhog day. donald trump, the caucus is allowing donald trump to run them and they are not getting anything out of it. they are not passing legislation. he took the fisa stuff and it wasn't even the right fisa, can -- >> and you walk us through the tick-tock of that ? he's trying to make this election about joe biden's mental acuity, when in reality, it is donald trump who continues to get confused about things. 2018, he brags. just find the 702 bill to reauthorize foreign intelligence collection. this is not the same fisa loss around the abused during the election. that on wednesday he writes, "kill fisa, it was used against the and others to spy on the campaign." we have fox news pointing out

he confused section 702 with title i. is not clear on what he's doing. >> he has no idea what he's talking about. he's not the president. we've never been here before. he's the leader of the party and my former party, michael, your current party is a cold and he is the cult leader. because he has this hold on the base and every other republican is afraid of that. >> joe, what does the landscape look like going into november, knowing that you have a party that is all about lying to the public? it is not just their base. we need to disabuse ourselves of thinking that this is just only being heard by his race. it does, it is a broader effort to lie to the public, to set up a violent end to this campaign. what should or could we be doing now to reinforce what is happening in states around the country, what secretary of state and boards of elections

who are trying to shore up to avoid the very thing that donald trump and certain republicans want to have happen ? >> it happened, it will happen again. something like january 6th will happen again. so, michael, as you said, all of the elections officials around the state, the secretaries of state around the country, and i think joe biden has a tough spot, is in a tough spot because he has to defeat donald trump but the democrats have to kind of lead on this and take this mental. it is all about saving democracy because it really is under threat. i think it is an opportunity for democrats, michael, to expand this coalition to save this democracy. this is part of it. trump is calling for violence. think about that. one of our nominees for president wants there to be violence if he loses. do you think joe biden would want that if he lost? no, we've never had this. >> that is thing. is that it the last time you were with us, this is not

normal. >> i went to bed that night saying that. >> we will come back and talk a little bit more with joe walsh about what is not normal. picks, republican plans to elevate third-party candidates in the hope to take down president biden. don't miss our exclusive conversation with michael cohen. his only interview before trumps hush money trial begins. you are watching it all right here on the weekend. weekend. bladder leak underwear has one job. i just want to feel protected! especially for those sudden gush moments. always discreet protects like no other. with a rapid dry core that locks in your heaviest gush quickly for up to zero leaks. always discreet- the protection we deserve! (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking.always discreet- unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there

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you all know this. either joe biden or donald trump will win the white house, november and we all know the race is going to be tight. according to the new york times, trumps lies are left, leading voters to support third- party candidates. those with virtually no chance of winning but whose presence in the race, guess what, could give a boost to trump in battleground states. for horsemen joe walsh is back with us. >> this is one of those rare things that democrats and republicans agreed upon, which is having a third-party candidate or multiple third- party candidates in the race takes votes away from joe biden and levels things up for donald trump. that is clear as day. >> that is why trump and trump money and trump people have been backing rfk junior from

the beginning. i know this race will be decided by a handful of votes in a handful of states and rfk junior can impact that. >> you have donald trump just yesterday, he did direct to camera video, i'm looking at it on my social media feet and he said "i do believe rfk junior will do very well and he will take votes away from joe biden." he's openly propping him up. the biden campaign has a counter effort to this, if you will. i want to play this clear choice, providing clear choice ad targeting rfk junior. >> what does rfk junior really want? here are the facts. is gladly running a spoiler campaign to benefit to people, himself and donald trump. >> and proud that president trump likes me. >> that is why rfk junior's camping is backed by major maga donuts and why rfk junior has decided three times to rule out a cabinet post for donald trump is elected. the two have a lot in common. rfk junior said he would sign a federal abortion ban and refuse

to defend ivf access and rfk junior promotes and profits off of harmful conspiracy theories. maga leaders want rfk junior in this race as a spoiler for one reason, to help trump win. reject rfk junior to stop donald trump. >> that is it. it's a good ad. i mean, folks, really ? you really think rfk junior is a credible candidate for the presidency? who are your voters? his own family is not supporting him. at least donald trump can say my family supports me. rfk junior cannot. the reality of it is we always lay down to them lowest common denominator to try to win elections and i just can't believe, help me out, am i wrong, are without gullible in this country? >> let me later on. i think part of what they are

doing is sowing confusion. they understand that simply having additional variables makes things worse. >> who is the voter >> that doesn't matter. that is almost beside the point. part of the point is it the motivates a more general voter because they think this whole thing is chaotic, i can't follow this, i don't know who all these folks are. not sure who is telling the truth and is not. >> alyssa is right. it is have another option there in a year like this is profound because most voters are still pretty upset and they are not excited over one of these candidates. you give another option out there that gives a place for some people to go, that is why it is so dangerous. >> it is enough of those people to go to that place, to their happy place where they can, where they think that that vote is going to do what? >> let me say this. i think that there is, i think now more than any of her past recent elections, a third-party candidate is a true, true

threat to joe biden but also to to so to 70 270. to be the president of the united states, have to win 270 electoral college votes, not 269. the ballot access matters here. rfk junior, dr. cornell west, jill stein, what does the ballot access program look like? rfk junior is someone who is on one state right now. he just gained ballot access in north carolina. so it is two. that is an issue because the margins matter here. now, what if joe biden is tonight 270? or donald trump? according to the 12th amendment, the house gets to pick who the president is. i just watched that episode of scandal the other day. >> which version of the house, is it the existing house with a

new house that is sworn in ? >> it is the new house. >> if the democrats win house in november, people don't have a problem. >> that means we have to vote it down ballot. >> let's layer and what we are watching out of nebraska. >> go big red. >> you have a congressional district that often delivers an electoral vote to a democratic candidate and there is a big republican effort underway to take that vote away. >> the governor has said he is inclined to support that if there is support among his legislators for that effort. how are you seeing this ? >> the bottom line is for everyone who doesn't want donald trump to be president, you want them to have one option, one person to vote for. that is biting. any other name in the mix hurts biting. >> what about the nebraska thing ? i'm from nebraska. i know the unicameral very well. right now, they don't have 217 votes to overcome a democratic filibuster. it is everybody is a senator, no caucuses in the state

legislature. to me, this signals that donald trump and his allies are very concerned. they are concerned he can't out right. they want to break the process as much as they can to take away the opportunity for nebraska to split their electoral college votes. >> that is right. trump is looking at everything because he knows it will be close. it would be the new house. >> people have to vote down ballot. every member of the house server presented is up for election. we haven't even talked about control of the senate. democrats are defending 23 seats, really 22 because west virginia. >> maryland is now in play. that changes a lot on that dynamic. one last thing to you, joe, i want to go back to a point you made and i want to emphasize it again. when you talk about this is not normal, how important is it for

people to understand, given everything we have talked about this morning, we have a big trial coming up this week, we will talk about it later, i've got some thoughts. item number two. how do you see this now beginning to set? we really are getting into the concrete of this campaign with all of this stuff going on. voters i think, to my surprise, are going to engage a little bit earlier than they normally would. how do you think all this plays out ultimately? how do you think the public will read it initially? >> this will be the longest general election we've had in a long, long time. trump will dominate the news. he will be in a courtroom all of next week. i know the inclination is that this is going to hurt him. i don't know or don't think that it will. trump dominates the news. >> why won't it hurt him ? >> because i think there is a sentiment out there beyond his base that believes he is being unfairly attacked. symone, it infuriates me but i hear that from people beyond

his base. and, stormy daniels hush money, people's eyes roll over. i wish he was on trial for trying to overthrow the election but that probably won't happen before this election. he, as a victim, that resonates with more people than just his base. i worry about that. >> and the donald trump as victim is, there's nothing more laughable in the world. joe walsh, thank you. coming up, vice president harris slams trump on his abortion stance. before, be sure to follow our show on social media. our handle everywhere is @theweekendmsnbc. @theweekendmsnbc. d hurtles it ? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years,

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welcome back, everyone. let's play john bolton. >> my view is neither biden nor trump are fit to be president.

>> is joe biden corrupt and catastrophic for u.s. growth and foreign policy ? >> is not on duty 24/number seven. >> what's worse, someone who isn't on duty or someone who is catastrophic and corrupt ? >> if neither one passes the bar to be fit, there is no comparison. >> who are you going to vote for ? >> i will write in somebody. >> you are not alarmed ? donald trump hasn't without pursuing you. all of the things you say, why wouldn't you vote against him question >> i am going to vote against him. i'm going to vote for somebody other than donald trump. in arms-control parlance, we call this a problem of incommensurable. you can't measure biden and trump along the same metric. but, they both -- >> that is what voters will be asked to do. >> i, measuring them both on fit. >> that is the problem. i'm sorry. look, we have binary elections

in this country. you do have the privilege and the opportunity to write in a candidates name. but, also know that when you do that, it does not help in a critical race where you have close margins. someone will benefit, someone will lose. in this environment, the beneficiary is donald trump when you do not make a declarative vote. >> i will just say this. perhaps, perhaps i am in the minority but i am sorry, if republicans across the country cannot bring themselves to vote for donald trump and they want to write him susie q, feel free, baby. as long as they are not voting for donald trump, i don't care what they do. i don't care. >> the difference is that john bolton is not a random republican. >> is not, he knows better. >> john bolton has a megaphone, he is someone who people listen to. to be out there saying this man poses a threat to democracy but then not being willing to double down on that and say that is why i'm going to hold my nose and vote for the other option, who, yes, i have many

differences with ideologically but fundamentally, if what we are deciding is an axis of good for democracy, but for democracy, potentially and of democracy, that is a very clear binary. >> it is a very clear binary and the reality of it, here's the thing folks really i hope people appreciate, and they need to is that guys like bolton and others they have, they have been brought up in this political system. they haven't got up inside the gop and we all know the person who says i vote for a republican or if i vote for a democrat, my mom will never forgive me, my dad would turn over in his grave. there is this baked incense that i cannot move outside of my tribe. the problem is in voting for joe biden, it is voting for a democrat. that is the help that this fight has to be fought on. for those who are trying to move the needle. i appreciate your point, symone. it is an important one. but, at the margins , this race is going to come down to five

states and about 60,000 voters. >> you need some republicans. >> you need some republicans. >> there are republicans that voted for joe biden before. they voted for him in 2020. there were part of the coalition that made him president. i don't know. >> that coalition has fractured since then. and, unfortunately, the administration has not, taking the administration of the campaign, has not done anything to backstop that. >> i don't think, i disagree. i think joe biden. >> white are we at this point, then ? >> i really don't know why people, joe biden, joe biden and donald trump are like, i can't even make a comparison. i think it is the greatest disservice to joe biden personally that he is constantly being propped up there next to donald trump by people like ambassador bolton, who know better, who say i

just, he is asleep at the wheel and he is also a threat. joe biden is not a threat to democracy. he would not instigate an insurrection. he stood there and said to him president for everyone, regardless of who voted for me. i just think. >> here is the bright line -- >> people need to make the case. the campaign has tried but the rest of the democratic party apparatus needs to get on board. >> here's the case, as we wrap this up, here's the case. one guy wants to be a dictator, the other does not. i don't know how you read history but in the world where there are dictators, that is not a good day at home. i think the reality for a lot of folks is that is where this line is going to be drawn. joe biden does not want to be a dictator, he wants to be president. donald trump wants to be a dictator because he doesn't care about the presidency. we need to understand what the margins are here, what is important. to your point, there will be those who will go out and just like i'm going to write someone in. the rest of us will try to

convince the rest of you that you've got to cast your vote for the man who wants to be president, not the one who wants to be dictator. >> i am talking about republicans that want to write in anybody. these democrats need to vote for joe biden. >> that goes back to the last conversation with rfk because he does appeal to a certain element in the democratic party as well as republicans. >> there is a lot online. we have an arizona state senator who shared her abortion story. she is speaking out on the near- total abortion ban about to go into effect in her state. you are watching the weekend. >> women will die. please stop killing us with your arrogance. your arrogance. e're going for r treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding.

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rights and freedoms. part of a full on attack state- by-state on reproductive freedom. and, we all must understand who is to blame, former president donald trump did this. >> that was vice president kamala harris in tucson, arizona, just days after the state's supreme court upheld a law that was passed in 1864 that makes abortion a felony punishable by 2 and 5 years in prison. the only exception is to save a woman's life. before the law goes into effect, the court has sent the case back to a lower court to hear additional arguments. joining us is the president and ceo of the national women's law center and arizona state senator eva burch. senator birch, thank you for being here with us. we want to start with you. first, i want to know, do you

support a special session, if you will, to repeal the ban? referred things from different democrat in the state and am wondering where you stand on that. >> sure, thank you for having me. it's nice to be here again. we don't need a special session. we are in session. so, we really can address this now. we have the opportunity to do it on wednesday. we are going to be back at the legislature again for more business on wednesday. all we have to do is vote on a repeal. vote on a repeal that already exists. we already have a bill that is ready to go to repeal this man and we don't need a special session for it. we are still in session. we have not adjourned our business for the year. it really is a very simple solution that we should be taking advantage of. >> it's so striking to me, fatima, that arizona has become a microcosm of our national politics when it comes to abortion, when it comes to immigration and the fact that

you have republicans in the state who don't want to touch this politically. what we are seeing in arizona is what we are seeing nationally from republicans. >> arizona is a window to what would happen in any state that took you back to the 1860s. the idea that 1860 law, civil rights era laws where women had no rights, you couldn't own property, couldn't vote, slavery existed, should govern our life today is angering. you have women around this country enraged and demanding people do something about it. >> you have people in this country who may not call themselves pro-choice, who look at what is happening in arizona and say this is close government overreach. to me, that is part of what arizona articulates. >> it is extreme. you can't have it both ways here. you can't sit back and say well, maybe i do something different and maybe it is a little extreme and not do

something about it. the fact that she just said we are still in session, it is not going to be good enough to talk about it. they are going to expect action to not take them back to the civil war era. >> senator burch , arizona gop blocks the efforts to repeal the ban, noting the speaker told axios he wouldn't permit a vote on the repeal but you also have kari lake, who's trying to do the backstroke on this issue. she's on the record, very clearly on the record, in support of this 1860 law. couldn't wait, couldn't wait until it was a part of the arizona landscape, legal landscape again. how are your fellow senators and members of the house looking at this issue as we get ready for the fall? you guys are in session now and we don't know what the outcome

may be. there's going to be a political consequence on the back end of this for a lot of elected leadership. how real are those consequences, do you think, for the likes of the representative and senators who are, and candidates, who at once supported very much this taccone and law but today seemingly think that voters just will move on past it and forget that they once supported it? >> i will say i don't think any of them are so foolish they don't realize there are consequences. and the problem is there is no win for the gop in arizona right now. they are in a very precarious position where they don't want to allow the democrats to have a win and to solve this problem but they also are very

concerned about putting forth any legislation of their own because it is going to anchor their base. but, they are also incredibly fractured. the question of what do we do does not have a solid solution that has mutual agreement in the arizona legislature. they are very fractured, there is a lot of infighting. nobody agrees on what to do next. i think that there are many of them who would be very comfortable voting for a repeal because people are absolutely crying out for it across the political spectrum. and, nobody likes this banner. everybody agrees this is a serious problem. we have a very, very small but vocal minority of individuals in the legislature and in the state to think this banner is a great idea and have said so publicly. but for the rest of us, which is the overwhelming majority, everybody agrees this is a terrible idea. but, if they come forward with anything while we are still here in session, i think that they are going to put a poison pill in it, something democrats couldn't vote for. that is what they are debating right now and trying to figure

out. i've had a number of people asked me if there is a compromise i am open to and if there is maybe some solution we can all agree on. but, you don't make a compromise with just one party behind closed doors. the democrats are not being allowed into conversation at all. so, i think that they plan to come forward with something, eventually, that is going to be a bad idea because they are not allowing the voices who have been advocates in this space for a very long time to have any site at all. so, the consequent is are going to be dire. i think that they are doing a terrible job. they are being the most irresponsible lawmakers in the country right now. are they going to see the effect of that in november ? absolutely. i hope nobody dies while they are trying to figure it out. >> senator burch, what are the laws on the books in arizona that govern what men can do with their bodies? are there laws that restrict viagra or any of the erectile dysfunction aids, are there laws that, what are the laws about men? >> no, we like to reserve all

of our draconian laws for women here in the state of arizona. i think it is pretty much that way across the country. but, i think really to focus and hone in on this particular issue, i think that they really are just playing roulette with our lives for political gain. there is this a very small number of republican legislators who have already put out a statement saying that they think this man is great. the problem is that that a small group of legislators has a history of taking anybody who falls out of line and primary in them in the next election cycle. so, none of these republicans who want to be challenged, none of them want to lose their power because this is a discussion about power. it is about control and controlling our bodies, controlling our decisions because it is politically expedient for them and that is how they hang onto their base

and hang onto their votes. that is how they prevent themselves from being primary in the next election. they are being crushed under coupling cowardice right now. everyone knows what the right thing to do is. it is a simple solution. it just needs to be done. >> fatima, to the point about how this is about the power. there is a story we were following in may of last year, a man suing his ex-wife over an abortion. there is an update in that case. this week, the 14th court of appeals said a trial court order requiring the production of records has the potential to violate her fifth amendment right against self- incrimination. this is the new world we live in. >> abusers have been emboldened in this world. we have neighbors using abortion laws against each other. the thing i want to get back to is that every time voters have had a chance to show up and vote directly on abortion, they have been clear, no matter the state. and, so, i cannot figure out in light of that why we are hurtling down this road in arizona. they have an opportunity to make a change if they want to.

the voters are ready with a ballot initiative in arizona, in places like florida and in several states around the country. you are going to see the backlash strongly. >> fatima, state senator burch, sticking with us. we want to talk about the politics of this ruling and donald trump's hard to follow stances on abortion. also, symone wrote a great piece about the near-total abortion ban in arizona and voters in that state have already let their voices be heard. it is in friday's edition of the msnbc daily newsletter. you can subscribe to the newsletter for free. scan the qr code on your screen right there with your smart phone to sign up. you are watching the weekend.

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donald comes back and forth on abortion will give you whiplash. he started this week stating abortion right decisions should be left up to the state. after the arizona supreme court ruling, he criticized the decision and is now calling for the state legislature to committee what has happened. fatima and arizona state senator burch is back with us. he is a liar. >> he thinks, i guess he thinks we won't look up what he said before.

politico doesn't have a short memory. they listed a series of questions donald trump has yet to answer on abortion. one of those included whether he will sign a 15 week abortion ban or if he will use the comstock act to ban or restrict the procedure. what do you think donald trump will do if reelected ? >> i think we should watch what everyone around donald trump is asking him to do. they are being clear they want a national abortion ban and the question is which week, how early? they are being clear in the case before the supreme court on medication abortion that they want a backdoor national abortion ban. there's a whole project to giving him all the ways if he has the power as the president to ban abortion in this country. >> project 2025. >> project 2025. they have told us the road map, how they will do with, how they will capture each of the agencies and basically do the work that they couldn't do politically. we should take that seriously. we should not think that we don't know what will happen if

donald trump is president. he has been clear that he is the one responsible. he has crowed about building a supreme court that upended roe v wade and created this cruelty and chaos. he is responsible for all of the consequences that have flowed. we should not wait for him to say and here is how i do it. everyone around him has already told us the plan. >> senator, i want to pick up on that because i think it is very important for folks to understand. i will speak very plainly, donald trump is lying and until he proves otherwise, he is lying to us about his position. the reality of it is he starts out of the conversation, as alicea noted, with this idea of, or symone noting that a 15 week ban or abortion, here's

my view. now talking about all the seats should have that privilege. let's listen to what he says about the arizona abortion ban right now. >> donald trump is the architect of this health care crisis. >> the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars, besides, wanted and in fact demanded be ended. roe v wade. my view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint to states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. >> so now he tells us that the law of the state of arizona has gone too far. so, i guess you don't get to decide this issue, or do you? how do you make that clear to

voters that they are being lied to, number one, and that this idea that the states have the power to do this is also a lie? at the end of the day, donald trump will sign a 15 week abortion ban. he will sign that ban. when lindsey graham and republicans present it, he will sign it. how do you really make that case so people understand exactly what is at stake here? >> i think that is such an important question. we also have to look at the fact that there is absolutely no accountability. we are seeing both at the state level and from former president trump that they are saying this is bad, this is a mistake. look at arizona, and he does great example that this is a band that has gone too far. there's no accountability at all. there's no are okay, what i did resulted in this and this is a problem. we are seeing that on the state level. we have a representative who has tried to flip flop and

saying he was going to vote with the democrats on this repeal but he sponsored five fetal personhood bills in the last session here that would have eliminated abortion, also impacted in vitro fertilization. we have to look honestly at their records. we have decades of these lawmakers telling us what they are going to do. we have to understand that that is the reality, that is the truth. when there's a political consequence, of course they will tell us otherwise. but, we can look at their voting records. we can look at what they've done historically and it is really obvious what their intentions are. no matter what we do here in the short-term, they are going to turn around and continue to make these decisions moving forward and to chip away moving forward because they have told us they are going to. i think that is something we have to remind voters at every opportunity that we possibly have. i want to circle back really quickly to the conversation that we were before the break about whether or not fathers or men need to have some say in whether or not women are having

abortion care. the gop is so hypocritical. i don't know how you can avoid the fact that they only care about what the father has to say . if the father does not want them to have an abortion, what if the father is telling them they want them to have an abortion? we have to have honest conversations about the hypocrisy of these gop lawmakers who only care about things when it matters to them in the moment and if you ask them to have any consistency, we don't see it. >> all right. fatima goss graves and state senator, we appreciate it. we have another hour of the weekend straight ahead, including an exclusive conversation with the trump of former lawyer, michael cohen, secretary of the army luis, eric, and congress woman nannette barragan. that is all coming up on the weekend. weekend.

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