join me again tomorrow at noon-eastern on the kitty think show, and on monday join me for a special lifestream. you will be able to drop a question in the chat and we will answer your questions, live. that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with stephanie bruel starts now. tonight, speaker, mike johnson, heads to mar-a-lago to meet with donald trump, at the far right threatens his job. plus, he won 142 million bucks gambling illegally, but he lost 183 million. the former interpreter for show hey otani

is now and hot, hot water with the doj. then, our spotlight conversation on christian nationalism. we will break down what the movement is, but it could mean for the election and why supporters are so deeply devoted to donald trump. the 11th hour gets underway this friday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle, and we are now 207 days away from the election. and we are just days away from the historic, first ever criminal trial of a former president of the united states of america. on monday morning jury selection will begin in the manhattan district attorney's case against donald j trump. today, the judge denied trump's efforts to delay the trial on the ground too much pretrial publicity. former president, of course, is charged with 44 felony counts of falsifying business records

related to an alleged hush money payment to adult film star, stormy daniels. the presumptive republican nominee spoke about the case earlier today, alongside house speaker, mike johnson down at mar-a-lago. our own dave gutierrez has those details. >> tonight, on the eve of his manhattan hush money trial, former president trump defiant, saying he is willing to testify in his own defense, a case he slams the prosecution by democratic da. >> mr. president, do you plan to testify. >> i would testify, absolutely, it is a scam. that is not a scam, that is a scam. >> it comes as the former president restored a political lifeline to how speaker, mike johnson. >> we are getting on very well with the speaker, >> sharing the microphone in mar-a-lago, their first public event since he was elected speaker last october. the republican majority faces a threat from l.a., marjorie taylor green trying to oust him. >> he is doing a very good job,

he is doing about as good as you are going to do, and i'm sure that marjorie understands that, and i know she has a lot of respect for the speaker. >> meanwhile, vice president, kamala harris was in the state of arizona today. she slammed the state's near- total abortion ban, and former president trump's role, specifically, in overturning roe v wade. let's get help from our leadoff panel, and i warn you, with this women! it is fantastic. my friend, molly is here, special correspondent for vanity here, and msnbc contributor , student susan glass joins us, and former district attorney in manhattan district attorney's office, she is now an msnbc legal analyst. susan, you wrote a book on the inner workings of donald trump and the way this man's minds work. he now says he is going to testify in this case. you think he is actually going to do it? what he says on the courthouse

steps with no consequences is very, very different from on the stand, where he could perjure himself. >> yeah. there's not a lot of lawyers who would want to sign up for that duty, you know? as we know, donald trump is kind of a full employment act for lawyers, but you know, if you look at the record of the many, many investigations of donald trump including when he was president, the lawyers who did work for him in the past were pretty united and saying they did not want to put them on the stand, they did not want to put him under oath, and they did everything, as you know, to avoid having him testify in the mueller investigation. so, we will see if he follows through. it wouldn't be the first time that he said he was going to do something that he did not end up doing. >> catherine, you are our legal counsel tonight, and this was your office. so, i need to know, how you feel about this? can you believe this case is coming to pass? what is it like for alvin

bragg, for his colleagues? what you expect this week? >> well, let's see if it happens on monday. >> you think there's a chance at one? >> anything can happen, when you have donald trump, but assuming that some unforeseen event doesn't happen, jury selection will start on monday. now, this is an office that has many big high profile draws, but clearly the former president of the united states is the biggest. this is the biggest case in the offices history, and clearly in alvin bragg, who has only been office for 2 years, but it will be biggest case of his history is district attorney. so, i agree. i don't believe that there's any chance that donald trump will testify. most defendants don't, and he won't testify. if he were, like by some strange chance to testify, the judge would have to keep sending the jury out of the room, because there might come a point where the judge would have to shut him down. so, it is different than the civil fraud case. he didn't testify in his own

case-- >> and it was civil. >> and he was called there by the ag's office. even by that point, the judge was trained to shut them down. because there was no jury, so it will not happen. >> can we just go back to the point you made at the beginning, if the trial starts. is there anything he could do between now and monday-- are there any more hail mary pass as his lawyers could throw at the judge that could actually because for a delay? like, after today i was under the assumption the judge was like, you get what you get, you don't get upset, see you monday morning, brush her teeth. >> either the judge or the appellate court, that his lawyers rent through three different times this week, there are no legal options, because even if you were to file a motion, the judge would continue picking the jury. so, there are no legal options that he can do to stop this case from going forward. >> i know we have gotten desensitized, because donald trump has had legal troubles for years and years, even before he was president, but just put this in perspective

for us. we are talking about a former president of united states, the current republican front runner. from a historical context perspective, wow of it all. >> yeah. and i think we independent industrial complex have gotten so-- you know, there are so many trump trials that we are like oh, this one, but here's the truth, this guy is the republican nominee for president. he is running for president and he is having a criminal trial. by the way, it is a criminal trial for the money he paid an adult film star after his third wife delivered his fifth child. >> but put the wife aside, it was a hush money payment to hide from the american people, because he was trying to influence the way they were voting in the presidential election. >> yes. also, he is a republican nominee for president, so he is like mr. evangelical, right? and now he is going to go on trial for hush money payment,

which are election interference, so, yes, i think that this is actually much worse than we all come in our cynical way are seeing. i think it has real-world implication. >> i have not heard from his ardent supporters say god chooses on it on important messengers. >> but there are three weeks of them watching his unexpected messenger and his fixer testify about checks and i think it is a lot. i actually think it affects the campaign. and swing voters are not going to like this. >> all right, let's talk about checks, susan, because today at mar-a-lago, donald trump, the current how speaker, they were actually supposed to talk about election integrity, but they were both basically fear mongering about undocumented immigrants, voting, and how all of this is going to impact election results. which is absurd. but is it going to help him in

terms of riling up his base? >> well, look, rile up the basis literally the default playbook for everything. staff, this is the trump campaign. ignore that what you can control and change the story into, you know, all of the terrible, scary, bad awful things that people, especially people of color are going to somehow do to you. this is donald trump's playbook. and what is amazing is that he has turned, not only large swats of the publican party, but essentially the house of representatives and speaker, mike johnson is an example of that. has now become sort of a subsidiary of the donald trump campaign, and i think that is what this visual reinforces today. remember, mike johnson is an accidental speaker. perhaps the weakest speaker of our lifetime. if not of modern times, period. he would not be in the office if donald trump had not

unrooted him, and he is there to try to save his job. so, trump is not only the republican nominee, tamale's point, but he is essentially acting as the de facto speaker of the united states right now, and controlling what does and doesn't come up for a vote on the floor of the house of representatives. >> molly, do you think johnson going down there to kiss trump's ring was enough? because the person inside congress, who is targeting him, who has him on the thin ice is his fellow republican, marjorie taylor green. >> yeah. >> and while she is going for him, she doesn't actually have her own point of view. she reports to her daddy, donald trump. >> well this is the big question, right? is mike johnson the speaker of the house? is donald trump really the speaker of the house? or is marjorie taylor green really the speaker of the house? i mean, what happened today was clearly at the behest of donald trump right? mike johnson went down there to make a long that is already a law right? you can't-- you know-- people

who are not citizens cannot vote in american elections. that is the law. that has been the law, so they made a law that is not a real law to somehow talk about election interference. it was really a fiasco today, but it really made speaker johnson look like he serves at the pleasure of former president, donald trump. >> susan, vp harris was back in arizona today, hammering donald trump's abortion stance. there is no question that extreme abortion restrictions are unpopular. are democrats doing everything they can and should do to seize on that? >> well, look, their strategy this year is to emphasize putting referendum on the ballot in states that will bring out democratic voters. that is the hope. the problem for democrats is that there aren't a ton of truly battleground states, where they are going to have these abortion referenda this year. now, arizona happens to be one

of them. i think what happened this week in arizona, with the supreme court of the state reinstating an 1864 law, basically banning almost all abortions in the state, this is a remarkable turn in the politics. remember, joe biden only won arizona by something like 10,500 votes in 2020, and i think that there is a real sense that, if this battleground might have been slipping away from biden a bit now, it is very much back and play for democrats. you have republican strategists openly talking about a political earthquake as a result of this that is going to seek their candidate. i think it is very significant. now, advocates say they have got enough signatures to get that abortion referendum on the ballot in arizona this fall. if that is the case, i think it is significant. nevada is the other battleground states, where you are likely to see an abortion vote this year, and for

democrats, that is an issue they would like to keep talking about. you know? donald trump did this as their new tagline. >> before we get to november, let's talk about where we are right now and what this actually means for people in arizona, because this-- and i know you have been hearing it for 2 days-- is actually a civil war era law. catherine, a lot of the language and it is very vague, and the state's attorney general says she will not prosecute it anyway. how difficult is it for this-- for lawyers and doctors to deal with? >> well, she said she wanted prosecuted, but there are also county attorneys in arizona were elected. she says she has supervisory authority over them. well, good luck with that. they are elected. and if you are a doctor, this law says, if you perform an abortion you could be prosecuted for a felony, and if you are convicted, the minimum sentences two years. so, they have a right to be concerned and say i'm just not going to risk it. so, this is horrible for reproductive rights in arizona.

this is the result of the supreme court overturning roe v wade. this was the inevitable result that would happen. >> what is your take on this one ? because trump, who is the one who enabled all of this, because he lined everything up for roe v wade to be overturned, he is kind of doing a tap dance this week, but i'm not sure how he can. >> it is so interesting, because he's like on monday we will kick it back to the states. he had to have known this arizona decision was coming down, and it was so preposterous. we are going to kick it back to the states. arizona, the republican legislature. >> the next day. >> they are like okay, we will take it back to 1850. >> all the way back. >> you remember the president, i mean, arizona wasn't even a state, a 10-year-old girl couldn't give consent. i mean, this is the law. other laws in this are wild stuff and no. i think that look they are

still trying, the democrats in the arizona state house are still trying to overturn this. they are still trying, ultimately it will be enacted, republicans want this, and it is like they are campaigning for democrats. >> some republicans wanted. >> extraordinary, ladies, thank you so much. thank you all. when we come back, this is the story everyone in your life is talking about. you might be saying happened? i know i am. america, what we do? we that huge on sports gambling, but if more cheating scandals are coming into the light, it is just proving critics right about the massive risks? and later, we are putting a great big spotlight on what is known as christian nationalism. the unique danger it poses to democracy and its ties to the former president. the 11th hour just getting underway, another busy friday.

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the evidence we have gathered over the past few weeks has totaled mr. horowitz stole over $15 million from mr. shohei ohtani's account in these illegal sports bets. sit down, take a drink,

swallow, because this story is crazy. the former interpreter burger superstar, show hail connie is out on bond after making his first court appearance. i know you have heard about the story. this guy has been charged with bank fraud and is accused of stealing more than $60 million from otani to pay for illegal sports bets. he is now facing up to 30 years in prison if he gets convicted. otani says he is not aware of his former attorney's gambling at all. and prosecutors have a text message from the former interpreter to his bookmaker, saying quote, technically i did steal from otani. here is ken rosenthal, senior writer of the athletic and fox news mlb reporter. this story is crazy with a capitol k. >> we were all wondering what actually happened. for weeks now, we have

speculated, trying to figure out what was going on here, how is this possible? an issue we figured that was reported was four and half million stolen from otani's account. and yesterday, u.s. attorney laid out in great detail and their complaint lays out in great detail just how he conducted this scheme to basically steal money from otani to finances gambling debts, and it is an astonishing document to read. a lot of people, a lot of sports fans are still curious, and still not convinced that otani had no knowledge of this, but the document lays out a very compelling case against mizuhara and defend against otani, because it doesn't appear, after reading that complaint that he had any knowledge of it, he seems to have been duped. >> so, you don't think there's any shots that the interpreter,

just this one, single, small, kind of nameless-- not faceless guy, is the fall guy for a bigger scheme here, you don't think that's possible? >> stephanie, anything is possible, and i am not going to rule out anything and certainly not any insight here to know, because this relationship between the two of them was incredibly close, as close as an interpreter and player can be. basically, mizuhara controlled a lot of aspect of otani's life. you say what if he is just the fall guy, what if otani is simply paying him too, as you say, take the fall? i believe that a lot more if mizuhara was facing a year or two in prison, and perhaps he pleads guilty than the 30 years and i don't imagine it will be 30 years, but let's say he goes to prison for 6 years, to 10 years of that is a heck of a fall to take for a good friend, even if you have got

money coming out at the end of it, and again, the way that complaint reads and i advise everyone out there to read it, it is available online. it is pretty damning of mizuhara's conduct and it is pretty exonerating of otani. >> it is hard to describe just how big he has for major league baseball. some people have compared him to a modern-day babe ruth. what has this case meant for not just the team, but the whole league in baseball? >> for now there is some question about him, some doubt. but the way i wrote in the athletic, this is as good as it gets leading to exoneration. and in time, this likely will fade if it is, indeed, the outcome, if mizuhara goes to jail and otani continues playing. people will always have their doubts, people always do in this day and age, but at the same time, i don't know if this will be bad for the leak or bad for shohei ohtani or anything

like that, if he had bet on baseball, a cardinal sin in baseball then that would be conducted by the mlb. and if it had been, they would say the mlb is covering for their cash call cow, and that would have perhaps been a fair assessment. three agencies in the u.s. government conducting and combining on it? again, it looks pretty good for ohtani. >> looks pretty good for him tonight. what a scandal. i am sure he is anxious for this to be over. ken, thank you so much for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. >> thanks, stephanie. when we come back. get ready for a serious eye- opener. we are taking a deep dive into christian nationalism and why it is raising concerns about threats to our democracy. i am going to say it again. christian nationalism, and how

it could be threatening the democracy that our country was built on. our very special spotlight conversation begins. are you throwing money away? money stresses me out. so, i went to experian. they actually helped lower my monthly bills. phone, internet. also subscriptions i forgot about. streaming, music, news sites. now i can see them in one place. and the ones i forgot about? experian can cancel them for me. experian did the work. finally getting smart about money feels really good. helped me take control of my money. save money now on monthly bills and unwanted subscriptions at experian.com/save.

there is a new force in american politics that is more vocal. while it is linked to christianity, the focus is much broader, with a goal of tearing down the wall between church and state. it is called christian nationalism.

it has become a very big part of campaigns. here to talk about this, some fantastic efforts. studies professor and graduate chair at the university of pennsylvania, also an msnbc columnist. she wrote the book, white evangelical racism, the politics of morality in america. my old friend, peter is here, contributing writer for the atlantic and senior fellow at the trinity for him and catherine stewart joins us. investigative reporter and author who has covered religious liberty, politics, policy, and education for over a decade. her latest work is the power worshipers, inside the dangerous rise of religious nationalism. this is such an important conversation. the conservative christians and religious right have always been a political force or at least for the last several decades. , but this is different, what is christian nationalism. >> mr. nationalism is the belief that america is a

christian nation, made to be a christian nation, the church and state separation that jefferson talked about is not applicable, basically they want church and state to be together. the other part of this is that they look at what the founders and framers did so, therefore, flynn said it. he said this famous thing, when everybody got upset with him, he basically said america is in the bible and i'm thinking, i went to seminary, i don't know whether america is in the bible, but please enlighten me, and he said this, that america had a special place in biblical history and biblical prophecy, and so, for a lot of people, the way that they think about christian nationalism is that this is a god ordained country, god has blessed us in a certain way and christianity should be the law of the land and we should all be following christian rules. christ should be at the center of everything, and christian nationalism means that the foundations of the christian government are about christianity and not freedom of religion.

>> you are a conservative christian, how would you describe this? >> malicious and dangerous. i think professor butler's description was accurate. and ominous. i think it is a threat to american democracy. also a threat to the christian faith. i think it is a desecration of the christian faith, and i think the core identity for one of these people who are christian nationals, it is not faith is a whole series of other things, political partisan culture, psychological identities or their version of christian faith. to support, to validate these pre-existing views. it is important to say that not all christians or evangelicals are christian nationalist. it is a loose term, but in terms of how the professor described it, that movement exists, it is growing and the

movement doesn't have to be extremely large to be dangerous to the civic and political health of the country. >> catherine, a lot of people may think this is just about abortion or prayer in schools, but it is a lot more than that. how has it become so powerful? >> the christian nationalist movement is as powerful and strong as it is, because it has invested, for over 50 years, in a number of organizations which not only promote the christian nationalist message and ideology, but also build political power in these organizations are often interconnected. there are policy groups, think tanks, legal advocacy groups, others that focus on legislation or data and networking. they often draw clergy internetworks to turn out their congregants to vote for far right candidates, and the thing to keep in mind is that the movement is radically at all

levels, it rejects our founding principles and the principles of equality and pluralism that represent the best of the american promise. >> peter, what is it that people see in american culture today that they are so vehemently opposed to? >> christian nationalists? >> yes. >> you know, it is a really good question. i think there is some pretext that is going on. i think there is a fear that the progressive move went or woke ideology is going to destroy the country and the values that they care about. but the reality is the objective conditions of the country are as good or better under joe biden and donald trump. i think what is happening, in some respects, fear is a justification, not just a cause for some people on the right,

the christian nationalist move. they are in twinge to this ideology, and the i don't ideology of progression and militancy there is a prudishness and brutality to it. that, itself, i think is a complicated question, but i think it is tied to feelings of dishonor, and disrespect and also a fear of losing power, including a lot of white evangelicals losing power, as america becomes more diverse. so, it is a concoction of different emotions, but whatever they are, they are together, aggregated. it is a malignant movement. >> so, what i hear is this fear or anger about losing white power? >> yes. >> there are all sorts of christians in the united states of america. who is attracted to this form of christianity?

>> you know, i am going to start off with a line for my book, where i talk about the promise of whiteness, and the promise of whiteness is about having authority and power, and specifically white male power, and so, one of the reasons why i think people are attracted to this, whether they be white christians or nonwhite christians, is because it is a sense that they could have a proximity to power. that is the first thing. the second thing is nostalgia. let's hope that we can go back to the times, like the 1950s or something-- >> make america great again. >> exactly. or, americanism as it was called in the 1950s. or back when it is the 2008 election, it was going to be america-- america first. there is been all of these kinds of things. so, one of the things that we have to really consider is that these are people, who don't want immigrants. they don't want any difference. they want a homogenized america. and homogeneity means being white, christian. >> if you and i didn't have these big education and career opportunities, well then, we

would be home raising those children. >> exactly. it would be just like what happened with the rnc rebuttal to president biden. we would be in our kitchens, we would be nice tried wives. we would not speak up unless we were spoken to, or it was hours has been speaking to us this is something that people are attracted to and want. i think when we start to talk about the appeals to the republican party, specifically president trump is making, he is making an appeal that i am going to protect women, i am going to help women, and at the same time taking away all of their reproductive rights, and that just doesn't seem fair. >> catherine, is there something about this political movement that we are in-- excuse me, this political moment we are in right now that is drying so many people into it? >> well, i think that, you know, we have to-- you know, we can't understand what is happening in our political moment now without

understanding this movement and how it works. so, for example, this movement is up to its eyeballs in january 6 and the legals were promoting the whole election fraud coup attempt, and unfortunately this is a movement that has really seized control of the republican party. democracy really needs gatekeepers, and it needs leaders and parties willing to understand principles of freedom and values, and unfortunately the leadership has shown cowardice in the face of this and lack of creativeness in their own quest for power. so really it is a crisis of american democracy and the crisis of the republican party. of course, there are many good people who identify as republican, but unfortunately they have not rained in the extremes of their party and the

idea that leader is going to come on and come around and rain in those extremes now. it is kind of wishful thinking. trump is the leader of the republican party and the entire republican party has sort of caved to the christian nationalist movement. >> what you want? what is the end goal? >> power. i think it is power. a just a different kind of power, and it is almost a nietzsche and will to power, and it is justifying the means. they want power to advance the things that they believe in and care about. i think that they also want power to inflict harm on the people they disagree with. this is, i think the appeal of trump, saying i am your vengeance, i am your retribution. there's a lot of resonance with these people. i just want to say, part of a christian faith, that

christianity is, if anything, a religion of anti-power. jesus himself is probably as contrary to a christian nationalist as you can get, because his universal message, but the whole sermon on the mount is blessed are the poor and the week, the last shall be first. so, it is important to understand the extraordinary inversion, moral inversion, theological inversion that is taking place here, that you can somehow contort christianity and jesus to advance what these people are advancing. >> pretty sure they are not into worshiping false idols. we are going to talk about that when we come back. because when we return, christian nationalists are hailing trump as their savior. we are going to take a closer look at the old he has on them. when the 11th hour continues.

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as you know, the left is trying to shame christians, they are trying to shame us. us. i am a very proud christian, actually. the bullets taking, the arrows i am taking it for you and i am so honored to take them, you have no idea. november 5th is going to be called something else, you know what it is going to be called? christian visibility day, when christians turnout in numbers that nobody has ever seen. >> for many christian

nationalist, donald j trump is the leader they have been looking for. they believe if he becomes president, they can make their vision of what america should be a reality. and there is something he is more than willing to encourage at his rallies and the campaign trail. peter catherine still with us. have we ever had a political candidate like trump? i mean, there are some christian voters who see him as their savior. >> no, we have not had anybody a presidential candidate as savior, and for evangelicals, this is where i am personally appalled, because for evangelicals there is only one savior and that is jesus christ, but the way you think about trump is that he is a divine figure. the first run of his can presidency they compared him to keith cyrus, all of this artwork of jason behind him in the oval office, there were all of these means that happened in the first round, but what has happened now, since 2020, when

he lost his that now he is taking-- sort of tied himself into a persecution complex, they are doing this to me, i am your savior. it was no mistake that he started to sell the bible on holy week right? last week he did the same thing, how they are trying to persecute him. so it is tying into evangelical beliefs about their own persecution, what they believed to be persecution, and he is the perfect person for them. so, in other words, it doesn't matter if he has had three wives or any of that stuff that we thought would matter to evangelicals. what matters to them as they see him as a suffering savior, but a suffering savior for their causes and for them. >> back in 2016, donald trump told his supporters that they are under siege, religious extremism has been part of his rap for years. but now it is different. what you hear him telling supporters today?

>> well, i just think that the link which he is using is more violent and more threatening. there's a psychological accommodation that has happened , some resistance, not much not nearly as much as there should have been when trump came onto the scene, but with every transgression that he made, christian nationalists and a lot of christians who are not nest nationalists, just evangelical christians he changed them much more than they changed him. and one other thing, i think it is important to understand in this context, kristin is a historian, one of her arguments is that donald trump is the personification of a lot of the evangelical movement had for decades and decades. a lot of people who don't

follow the movement, they understand that there is this massive hypocrisy on trump with his depraved moral life, personal life and that is true, but that is not the full story. it is the cruelty he embodies, unfortunately tragic, but shamefully resonance with them. there something about him, we saw this in the primaries in 2016 and we are seeing it again this year in the primaries. when republicans have choices, conservative alternatives to donald trump, non-corrupt alternatives to donald trump, successful governors, like nikki haley, they reject her, they reject them, and overwhelming numbers. that means there is something about trump that draws them to him-- him to them, which is a real shame. >> catherine, you wrote that right wing conspiracy theories have never been more bloodthirsty. we talked about it in the last segment, we have seen political violence become a reality.

january 6th was that. i want to understand if, and how christian nationalism played a role in january 6th, and do you think there will be more violence ahead? >> well, the movement leaders ask absolutely played a role in january 6th. they spread election lies in the run-up to january 6th, this conservative action project and organization affiliated with the council for national policy issued a memo, telling its-- this is one of the key networking organizations of the religious right, telling leaders that they should-- and their political allies that the electoral votes should be contested. so, and not only that, there were a number of christian nationalist leaders, who actually participated in the jericho marches that preceded the january sixth to attempt. so, you mentioned conspiracies him and disinformation.

this is, unfortunately, a really big part of the move. the movement leaders know very well. if you can separate people from the facts, you can control them. you can control their behavior, and you can control their vote. so, a lot of the folks who participated in january 6th, a lot of the folks who attended-- these other conspiracy fest is, like reawaken america tours, i don't know if you knew about that? there are these traveling pro trump conspiracy roadshows that take place and attract thousands of attendees, they just sort of spread lies all different kinds of lies. there's a lot of q1 on, there's a lot of great replacement and other conspiracies, but the main lie that they are spreading is the idea that donald trump is their savior, he is a really terrific guy, the election of 2020 was stolen, and unfortunately they are really priming a section of the american public to become, sort of a third chair in voters.

>> they are deeply entangled in trump's 2024 campaign, and what can another trump administration look like with some of these guys at the helm? >> well. it could look really bad, because basically what you have now is 2025, pieces put together by the heritage foundation, where they talk about how they will turn -- >> 900 page manifesto? really? >> basically, where they are going to change all of these different roles and places of government, how they are going to put their old people in, what kind of rules will change because of this. they are already interviewing people, and i think that, for people who just look, oh, this is just another project, they have had time to think about what they have wanted to do since 2020, and this project 2025 i think is the most fearful thing. the other thing i would say is that, you know, you heard donald trump say yesterday, well, i am not really going to be involved in abortion, i am going to kick this back to the states. right? that is an obvious station.

>> he is the reason these decisions are being made? >> exactly. but he is doing a nice little faint so that people won't see this that he can get women's votes. but i will put it this way, if women vote for donald trump, it is like chickens voting for colonel sanders. and that is crazy to say, but it is just the truth. and i think that, you know, these kinds of projects, whether they are on the state level or the national level, we can look at book banning, we can look at how you can't teach ethnicity in certain places in schools, where people have to actually get permission for their kids to learn about african-american history during black history month, because that is woke in florida right? so, these kinds of things are going to be entrenched, because they want a theocracy. and this is something i can't stress to people enough. you need to understand that it is not just about abortion. it is not just about all of these other little things like books and all of this, this was

about the entire structure. and, for people who say they believe in freedom, they don't believe in everybody else's freedom. they want freedom for themselves, but they don't want it for the rest of us who are living in this nation, and don't want to live by those rules, because we may or may not believe them. >> christian nationalism, if you don't know what it is? educate yourself. it is growing more prominent, more powerful, and it is deeply entangled in donald trump's campaign. anthea butler, peter weher, katherine stewart, thank you for joining us tonight. and on that's very serious and somber note, i wish you a very, very good night from all of our colleagues across the nbc news, had a good night. i will see you on monday. monda when enamel is gone, you cannot get it back. but you can repair it with pronamel repair. it penetrates deep into the tooth to actively repair acid weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair. with new pronamel repair mouthwash you can enhance that repair beyond brushing. they work great together.

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