at the age of 76. his family said he succumbed to his battle with cancer and joining us on the phone, chris witherspoon as we look at iconic images from his trial, katy laid out how he had such a fall from grace having been an nfl for all-star. your thoughts learning about his death? >> it is shocking that he died. katy was unpacking it. even the video of the bronco, even before the trial happens, he was a bona fide movie star. he will cross over all types of racial lines and that trial brought up issues we haven't talked about, like domestic violence, what happens when you are collected -- connected to a celebrity but there are a lot of mixed feelings. >> chris witherspoon, standby .

i need to hand it off to the next hour with jose diaz-balart who picks up our breaking news coverage right now. good morning. we begin with breaking news. former nfl star o.j. simpson who was acquitted in one of the most famous murder trials in american history has died at the age of 76. his family posting on his x account this morning saying he succumbed to his battle with cancer yesterday. joining us now msnbc anchor , chris jansing. what do we know about this? >> well, we don't know a lot. a short statement was put up by his family that he had succumbed to cancer but the announcement o.j. simpson has died is sure to send ripples through much of america who remember this incredibly gifted football hero who became a guest -- as the guest said in the last hour a

bona fide movie star, someone on commercials, someone who was at football games. he was ubiquitous throughout america and crossed all racial lines. the idea that he might murder his wife came as the most incredible shock for anyone what -- alive at that time. the number of people who followed that trial, the number of people who followed that white bronco chase was in the tens of millions. it was an incredible cultural moment for this country and obviously the verdict was as well. you mentioned that i spoke to him in the aftermath of the trial where he was acquitted. many people remember that line in the trial, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." he tried to put a glove on that was believed to be used in the murder and it did not seem to fit his hand. he regained custody of his

young children and the parents of nicole brown simpson, his wife that was murdered, wanted custody and there was some question in the california appellate court as to whether or not someone accused of murder should rightfully have gotten custody of their children . it caused debate across the country and caused debate on the air here at msnbc . i did a one hour show with a panel of experts, mostly legal experts, talking about that idea and shortly after when i went back into the newsroom i was told o.j. simpson was on the phone for me and it did, indeed, turn out to be o.j. simpson. he said his lawyer did not want him to go on television but after conversations with me and some of my producers, he agreed he would go on the air and did his first expensive -- extensive interview during this period arguing it was right for him to get custody of his kids because he was acquitted and always

said he was innocent. one of the things he never really answered was about his statement he made after his acquittal, saying he was going to spend his money and fight as long as he could to find out who the real killer was, but there was never any indication that he did that, that he spent extensive amounts of money, so that was actually the second conversation. i once met o.j. simpson when he was doing football. then i met him -- or spoke with him with that extensive interview on msnbc and i covered the trial that ultimately put them in prison when he was found guilty of 12 counts of armed robbery and hotel room in las vegas. what strikes me about the multiple times that i have talked to o.j. simpson and i've talked to him several times coming out of court during that las vegas trial is the shocking change that i think most americans felt who knew him as a football

player and a movie star. most people believed he was, indeed, a murderer. then he was convicted of armed robbery. then the idea he would never give up the argument he was innocent and the shock it was to him, to the people who stuck by him for many years. this is one of the seminal stories and certainly one of the seminal court cases of the 20th century . o.j. simpson now dead of cancer and someone whose guilt and innocence continue to be argued for many years and in fact, many decades after his trial was over. >> chris, let's continue our conversation but i want to get a look back into the life of o.j. simpson. jay gray has prepared this for us. >> reporter: a heisman trophy winner, nfl hall of fame running back, o.j. simpson will be remembered most for something he could never run from. born or saul james simpson, he

was raised by a single mom on the rough side of san francisco. his way out? football. a college star, he was drafted by the buffalo bills where he had a record-setting nfl career including league mvp. he retired as one of the best to ever play the game and for o.j., the spotlight never dimmed. >> nobody does it better. >> reporter: transitioning into a successful career in tv and movies, he was inducted into the pro football hall of fame in 1985, the same year he married his second wife, nicole brown. the couple had two children and a rocky marriage that included allegations of domestic abuse. nicole brown simpson file for divorce in 1992 and just over two years later, she and a friend, ron goldman, were found murdered in her brentwood home. five days after the deadly attack driven by a former teammate, simpson led officers

on a low-speed chase across los angeles threatening to take his own life before eventually surrendering to belize. he was charged with murder. the court proceedings dubbed the trial of the century. >> if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. >> reporter: lasting nine months, every minute. >> we find the defendant not guilty. >> reporter: on live tv. searching for that justice, the goldman family won a civil suit. simpson ordered to pay $33 million. he returned to court multiple times for traffic violations, even pirating cable tv but it was a las vegas robbery in 2008, simpson saying he was taking back stolen personal property that ultimately sent him to prison. >> count one, conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty. >> reporter: sentenced to 33 years, he served 9 before being paroled.

jay gray, nbc news. >> chris jansing, thinking of the family owed $33 million, they never got anything near that. >> no, nothing significant was ever paid in that. the thing that i think struck a lot of people both in this civil case but then particularly in that second case in las vegas was that for a lot of folks, that was considered to be something of a petty crime, something that maybe happened in las vegas frequently and a lot of the conversation around that trial was would this jury judge him for what he had been acquitted of? could they separate themselves from the widespread belief that o.j. simpson had gotten away with murder? much was made of the fact it was 13 our deliberation on the 13th day of the trial

when you are in las vegas but more than that, so much of o.j. simpson's life all of it playing out in public was so dramatic and even then before going to trial, i remember vividly it was a friday night. the jury came back. it was very late. they announced the guilty verdict, guilty on all 13 counts. his sister let out a cry that pierced the courtroom and then the lights went out and it turned out the lights in the courthouse were actually on an automatic timer that went off at 11:00. everybody at that moment gasped . many people thought that would be the end, that would be a life sentence for him. as you heard in jay gray's package, it would not be, but a lot of what o.j. simpson worried about in his lifetime is what his obituary would be and of course, his obituary would always be he was this famous person accused and acquitted and by many people's

standards unfairly acquitted of murder, and someone who became largely a pariah after having spent much of his young life and adult life as a superstar. >> chris, stay with us. i want to bring in one of the journalists who filmed the incident with the bronco chase. she is also a friend of katy tur. i want to take you back to june 16th, 1994 . something witnessed by millions of people thanks in no small part to your efforts. >> reporter: wow. it is crazy to think that was 30 years ago. i remember so clearly a spokesperson for lapd to say that o.j. simpson turned himself in, yet no, o.j. simpson is in the wind, so we thought oh, my god, where could he possibly be?

we ended up in a helicopter thinking maybe he would have gone to where nicole simpson was buried and low and behold, there he was on the freeway. within seconds, there were police cars following him and within 10, 15 minutes, helicopters overhead and a crazy slow speed pursuit started. >> marika, take us back . in hindsight now a lot of people can no or feel they know a lot of things, but back then at that moment, things were surprising in so many ways. i mean, this was someone who was in that bronco and, you know, threatening to take his own life. take us back to what we knew back then. >> reporter: well, first of all, most people had no idea

that he had any kind of volatile relationship with his wife. he was this heroic football player turned actor and this was back before people knew about that. he kept it hidden, that they had gone to his house numerous times. we happened to know because we had a friend in the lapd, so for the most part it was, oh, my god, o.j. simpson murdered his wife? and o.j. simpson is in a car being pursued on the freeway? the attitude of the public, people were cheering him from the bridges. it was just astonishing. >> yeah. i mean, we have some pictures to speak to on that chase and those bridges and the signs over the freeways. people were stopped many times on the other side of traffic, stopped and were taking their time to wave at o.j.

simpson. how long did this last? how did this particular aspect or page in this infamous history end? >> reporter: well, he was traveling along the 405 freeway. people were able to come out and talk at it. he ended up in rockingham and the pursuit itself was probably about an hour maybe? when he got to rockingham, it was at least another hour where he refused to get out of the vehicle. refused to get out of the car. it was getting dark and i had a camera on my shoulder trying to get a picture of him getting out of the car and i'm listening to the lapd s.w.a.t. team on the police scanner saying, don't worry, we've got him in our sights because they thought he had a gun and they didn't know what would happen. all of a sudden they say he is

getting out of the car. don't shoot. he's got two picture frames in his hands. he went into the house. they escorted him into the house. i always thought they had given him orange juice, which i thought was a funny little tag to the story, o.j. in the house about to be taken to jail asking for some o.j. it was almost anticlimactic in the end because everyone was expecting the end we saw in lapd pursuits all the time with a crash or something happen but it was very anticlimactic at that point. >> when we look back so many years ago, what happened in the trial, the outcome of the trial and him going to prison for those 13 charges -- >> reporter: right and that just started the media obsession with the whole o.j. trial . >> yeah. what do you think --

>> reporter: people now are used to live, seeing things live . back then it was in the same. the media landscape wasn't the same. it was the start of everything live and 24/7 covering a story. >> can i just say that it is extraordinary to listen to marika talking because i was in local news at the time and that was unlike anything any of us had ever seen before. >> yep. yep. >> first of all, let's just say how extraordinary their work was, but the commentary, the way it was described, the idea that o.j. simpson was fleeing, that he might take his own life, it's hard to overstate what a star he was and how highly he was held in regard to so many people.

i think in my three encounters with him if you could count that, he was working and he was not just kind to anyone who came up to him but he was inviting it. he was someone who loved the limelight. he loved being the person o.j. simpson was before nicole brown simpson and ron goldman were murdered. he loved that person and until the end he was trying to fight to get that reputation back which was never going to be reclaimed after the trial. much of people's original impressions were formed as they were watching that bronco chase about o.j. simpson and watching the trial go on and on, but that is the reason why i think when i did a program on whether or not he should have custody of his kids, when he called me, it was

clear -- and i should say i was in my first month at msnbc. i was not a known quantity by any stretch of imagination and he called me because it was eating at him. i could tell from our private conversation and later on the air it was eating at him people thought he was an unfit parent. he said, and i remember this quote, to commit murder is an unfit thing. i'm innocent. i didn't do it. for o.j. simpson, the rest of his life after the moment -- even after the acquittal knowing that people didn't believe that he deserved to be acquitted was something he lived with for the rest of his life and ultimately, of course, went to prison for a crime that for many people, they look at it as some small measure of perhaps a men's that they didn't get from the first trial. >> yeah, it is really remarkable in 2024 to think back on how

the reality was for many in 1994. i remember i was at the time on that day, june 17th, 1994 working for nbc 6. we carried the different, you know, live shot's from the helicopters. you are doing your job that day. we carried that flow chase as if it were a local story for us in south florida. when you look back, what do you think you remember the most about him? >> reporter: just the idea that someone can follow so far from grace so quickly. he was just such an iconic figure in the community and he lived not far from where i lived and he was just part of the team, part of the star-studded team in

brentwood, in los angeles. who would have ever thought this would happen? for me, i'm in the helicopter and i'm thinking part of my career is covering things that happened to stars. suddenly the other half is doing crime. both of these parts of my career are together in this one moment where a superstar is in a chase on the freeway. how -- what an l.a. story. what a strange thing to happen. >> what a strange thing, indeed , and it was just the beginning of so many more strange things that occurred around o.j. simpson. chris jansing, thinking about the interview you had with him in the fact he would call you because he wanted to speak out about this -- i remember seeing him when he lived in south florida. i think it may have been 2000 or 2001 and i was at

a restaurant and it was like the moment you bumped into him. he came in and he was, indeed, treated by many as a celebrity and he clearly looked forward to the interaction with people at that restaurant who he very much it seemed wanted to. >> there is a certain level of celebrity that never goes away, right? the young o.j. simpson was very handsome, extremely charming. his charisma was extraordinary. i think because so many people had seen him, he wasn't just -- and i don't mean it in that way but he wasn't just a football player. he had the other part of his celebrity, which was on television and in movies. his commercials were ubiquitous

. everywhere you looked, there seemed to be o.j. simpson commentating on nfl games. he was someone who really crossed gender lines, crossed racial lines, crossed age lines. he was simply o.j. and that person was hard and perhaps impossible for him to give up because there were reports later about how he had places he would go for exactly the reason you talked about, which is, jose, places he knew he would find a friendly crowd, places he would still get reinforcements, places he could perhaps for a moment forget he was a pariah throughout much of america and arguably throughout much of the world. >> indeed. chris, stay with us. i want to thank marika gerrard, one of the people who filmed history in the making. marika , thank you for being

with us and always my love to katy tur, who we love and admire. marika, thank you. i want to bring in george lewis who covered the o.j. simpson trial. george, always great speaking with you. from that slow speed chase and the evolution towards the trial many called the trial of the century, it was such an odd thing but this trial was one of the ones that captivated as marika -- i mean as chris was saying not just the united states, but the world. >> it did. i think the o.j. simpson story had it all. it had sex, fame, fortune, race, you know, violence, true crime. the true crime story to end all true crime stories and thinking back on that day of the slow

speed chase -- i am married to julie on abc who won an emmy for her coverage of this chase and both of us have vivid memories of what that trial held and the fact it showed a deep racial division in not only los angeles but the entire country. when that verdict came in and people in the black community were cheering o.j. simpson's acquittal and people were in shock about it, i think it really vividly illustrates what's going on in our country around the race issue and the fact o.j. simpson's defense was able to use that to literally put the lapd on trial because in l.a. , we have been through the whole rodney king beating and the resulting uprising that took place when those policemen

were acquitted, then the simpson case happened a year or so later, there was a lot of racial turmoil in los angeles and i think the o.j. simpson defense was able to utilize that in making him sort of a symbol of the lapd. the prosecution said they had a mountain of defense against o.j., but his defense team demolished that and said, no, they were faking it. they planted evidence. it was a racist cover up by the lapd. it really became a huge mirror on our racial problems in this country. >> yeah, the legal dream team shows what, you know, you can accomplish if you are able to get together with a team of

probably the most highly paid, most successful attorneys in the world at the time, but george, the impact this trial had on us as a country is, as you say, has so many ramifications but on the legal side, it was also remarkable. >> reporter: yes, it was remarkable. i think the los angeles district attorney's office was ill prepared for what went on. the trial should have been held on the west side of l.a. where o.j. simpson would have gotten probably a mostly white jury and the verdict might have been somewhat different, but this district attorney's office decided because of the high profile nature of the case and the fact there were facilities that could handle a large group of media, they had the trial in

downtown l.a. that, i think, may have been one of the things that tilted the case in o.j. simpson's favor. his team dream defense was sympathetic to his assertions that the cops had fabricated evidence. >> george lewis, it is always great hearing from you and i thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> reporter: sure. >> thanks. and i want to bring in catherine christian, former manhattan's district attorney and msnbc legal analyst. thanks for being with us. we were just talking to george about this trial of the century. the impact this trial had on the legal world. >> it is such a coincidence. i was teaching a trial course yesterday and we were talking

about summations and i said if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. i was quoting johnny cochran and the importance of making a statement that will stick in the jurors' heads. it is a statement about exceptional lawyering. he had exceptional lawyers with johnny cochran. if you have financial resources, the difference as opposed to someone indigent, and obviously about race. what i remember about that case, the lead detective on direct exam came across a choirboy and you find out in cross-examination that he used the n-word and he used it often . this was like one of the first televised trials. i believe the case was lost when that came out because it solidified the racism at that time in the lapd. that is really, you know, dna, you

know, excellent cross- examination, so this was really that big first trial. o.j. simpson was a beloved athlete who made movies, commercials, all of us of a certain age remember him running through the airport on commercials, so celebrity also probably played a big part in his acquittal but you also have to give credit to the exceptional attorneys. >> yeah, and that is so important and something i was just thinking about and i'm glad you highlighted that. you know, how having the wherewithal and the means to have a dream defense team makes all the difference in the world. there was so much evidence, catherine, so much that pointed towards o.j. simpson being the person who carried out those two murders, yet there was enough doubt planted in the jury to have

this outcome. what kind of impact did that have, do you think, on the legal system? >> well, it is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. you may read online the papers. oh, this is a rock-solid case and he is guilty. here you have the jurors and exceptional lawyering. you know, dna supposed to be foolproof but you've got the argument the dna is contaminated and you could entrust it, so exceptional lawyering can defeat prosecution all the time because it's about reasonable doubt. it is not finding someone not guilty because the prosecutors just cannot prove the case. again, the celebrity, and of course, you can't forget racism . that was a large part of this case. the impact of a lead detective on tape and the jury hearing that n-word over and over . it

just was everything you could think that could cause this acquittal of mr. simpson did. >> and you know, being one of the first trials that was televised from beginning to end in so many ways, you know, it was interesting to me, catherine, the role of the impact that judge had on us all . >> yeah, and unfortunately for him, because how he was during the trial and televised. i know a number of judges who don't want to be that type of judge. you know, he was -- you know, i am sure he is a very nice man and a very good judge, but he came across often as very indecisive. he is not the only judge that is indecisive, so it was a whole host of things that those of us who were watching

it remember. particularly lawyers about that case. you may remember, you know, christopher garden, one of the lead prosecutors had o.j. simpson try on the glove and it didn't fit, hence johnny cochran's, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." meaning don't do a demonstration if it doesn't work, so those are issues that have lived all of these years as trial attorneys, the do's and don'ts when you are trying a case. >> he retired in 2015 after a many year career in los angeles from 1987 and retiring in 2015. catherine, thank you so much for your perspective. i want to bring in cynthia mcfadden, congressional correspondent. she covered the o.j. simpson trial very closely. cynthia, what are your thoughts

today? >> i sat in the courtroom. i think for those 11 months i was in the courtroom every day and i covered subsequently the civil trial in which he was found responsible for the deaths of both nicole simpson and ron goldman. you know, it is a sadness. o.j. simpson was such a blazing success in his young life and as his life went on, it all fell apart. i will never forget, we went out -- the jury was given jury instructions and we were called back to the courtroom four hours later. they deliberated and found him not guilty in four hours, which is extraordinary given the 11 month trial and this enormous amount of evidence. i think catherine was talking a moment ago about the skill of the defense team. they were remarkable. i would say johnny cochran in particular

who really connected with the jury. he remembered the first, most important rule. you are talking to people and if you have a narrative and story to tell, that is what will connect with them and he did that brilliantly. barry schack did a nice job dismantling what seemed to be an insurmountable pile of physical evidence, blood evidence that said o.j. simpson was 99% for certain the person who had stabbed the two victims, and yet barry schack dismantled it in a way that was related to the jury but i would just point out the defense was also aided by the judge. there were a lot of rulings at the time where those of us in the courtroom scratched our heads at the things he excluded and included. what we saw in the court room was quite different than what

the jury saw and so, those are the things resonating in my mind . the a civil trial later where an equally good team of lawyers for the goldman and simpson families tried o.j. for money damages, like $30 million i think was the final outcome. they were extremely skillful and the same evidence essentially played very differently with the jury in that courtroom in santa monica, but you know, who can never forget those pictures, those side-by-side pictures of the reaction to the verdict? the racial divide in this country on full display. in those moments. >> yeah. and i was just thinking, cynthia, so many unique, odd things about it. those 11 months, because they

were televised, they made pseudo-celebrities. who could forget kato palin? >> the houseguest that never left. yes, it was what people were talking about because people were watching at home and following along. if you were alive during this trial back in 1995, chances were good you knew way too much about the daily activities in this courtroom. i mean, people were riveted to their televisions. people had an opinion on what they were seeing and people at home were seeing what we are seeing in the courtroom for the most part. cameras stayed on as the jury was taken out of the room. so people saw -- i think it is important to say this is not typical justice in american courtrooms, right? this was an assemblage of lawyers both on the prosecution and defense side, which is unusual.

many believed justice was a theme emphasized in the outcome of this trial. >> and to think o.j. simpson lived the next, you know, 29 years ago this trial? his life continued, you know. he never, you know, was, you know, gave those $33 million to the family. he lived his life and went back to prison -- or actually went to prison for the first time for those 13 charges in las vegas. >> yeah, which was such a change. he was sent to prison for what he said stealing back or taking back things that were his, trophies over the years. it was such a -- you know, his life devolved to a smaller and smaller, uglier and uglier world after that trial. he may have been acquitted but

life convicted him. he was -- his life from all accounts -- you know, he was -- he became a pariah, really, and isolated in his home in florida. you have to feel sorry for his kids. they lost their mother and in so many ways, they lost their father too. >> he apparently passed away from cancer yesterday, according to his family. we will always remember, of course, nicole simpson and ron goldman who lost their lives. they had no dreams or aspirations to follow after that they in 1995. thank you so much, cynthia, for being with us. i so appreciate your time. >> great to talk to you. >> thanks. we will take a short break and

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motion. i heard a second.

all in favor of that motion, vote aye . all opposed, vote no. >> shame on you! shame on you! shame on you! hold the vote! hold the vote! hold the vote! >> this court ruling has created a messaging nightmare for republicans including former president trump as democrats mobilize quickly on the issue. this morning the biden campaign launched an ad blitz in arizona . the president saying, quote, i will fight like a hell to get your freedom back. we are joined by dana griffin and dasha burns. dana, what comes next? do democrats have plans to challenge this rule again? >> reporter: absolutely and they have another chance on

wednesday when the legislature is back in session. they attempted to create a rule to appeal this statute but it was unsuccessful. there is an effort in arizona to get signatures for an initiative to go on the november ballot to try to codify reproductive rights here in the state, so that is ongoing. you've got the attorney general who said she will not prosecute any doctors that perform abortions. we have spoken to many people on the ground that are now galvanized because of this particular issue, hoping to make their voices heard come november. listen to what they said about the entire ruling. listen. >> the right decision. was a decision based on statutory construction. the judges did what judges do. they deferred to the policymakers to decide the policy. >> to have the government try to step in and choose things -- the 1800s is on the surface

ridiculous but it is very hurtful to a lot of people. >> reporter: you know, we have been hearing the same sentiment throughout the couple of days we've been here. people are really sad and angered and some are very happy and pleased with how the supreme court decided so this is obviously going to be a talker for several months to come. jose? >> and dasha, the president's campaign was very quick for an ad in arizona. what does the trump campaign think about all of this? >> reporter: this ruling came the day after former president trump came out with the video saying it should be left to the states. he took credit for roe v. wade but that he doesn't want to do anything at the federal level. the following day arizona ruled on this 1864 law. voters here, that is a tough pill for folks to swallow.

there is a disconnect between what republicans at the national level want to say on abortion. they want to talk about it differently or frankly not talk about it at all but that is not cohesive with what is happening at the state level. republicans want to change the rhetoric but there is actual policy impacting people and working its way through the states right now. when people are feeling that tangibly day to day -- i've talked to women pregnant with babies they wanted to have but are terrified what if something goes wrong? will i have to go to another state? will i be able to get the care i need? when there is this mismatch between the change in rhetoric trump wants to see republican candidates make and the actual policy that people are experiencing day to day in these states, that will be a huge problem for republicans leading up to november and democrats are already taking advantage of that. you saw that ad and you better bet that is something they will

be hammering because it literally impacts people. people are feeling it and messaging only goes so far if policy doesn't come along with it, jose. >> dana griffin, dasha burns, thank you so much . breaking news surrounding former president donald trump. nbc news has obtained a list of people who may testify during the trial scheduled to begin on monday. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin joined us this morning. lisa, who's on the list? >> jose, there are people on the list that are not surprising at all including michael cohen and stormy daniels, the adult film star who received payments from michael cohen to keep quiet in the final days of the 2016 and former president trump is expected to repay michael cohen for those payments. that is the crime the manhattan das office has alleged but the list includes other names less expected including former white house communications director hicks,

former white house secretary to former president trump madeleine wester hud and includes the attorney for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, a playboy model who alleges she had an affair with former president trump. they are witnesses on the list too and it remains to be seen whether all of that will be called but these are important witnesses who can essentially build a scaffolding around the story michael cohen will tell about how these settlements came to be, what role he played and how he, former president trump, and allen weisselberg worked together to disguise the fact the payments are being made to repay michael cohen for having paid off stormy daniels in the first instance. >> lisa, who puts the list together? how is it decided? just the fact they are on the list doesn't necessarily mean they will be testifying. >> that is correct. these are potential trial witnesses and they are at the discretion of the party calling

them. i want to emphasize, jose, to you and the viewers that the list of witnesses obtained are expected to be witnesses for the manhattan das office, not for former president trump. when we talk about hope hicks testifying here, they are not being called by the trump side. they are being called by the das office presumably to corroborate details of the story michael cohen will take us through when he takes the witness stand. >> if you would, lisa, just remind us what we are expecting to see come monday. >> on monday, jose , we will see jury selection and we have more information about that as well. when we see potential jurors enter the courtroom they will be asked if there is any reason they are unable to serve including whether they believe they can't be fair and impartial on one hand to any other reason they may not be able to serve including caregiving responsibilities, for example. in a typical trial, folks are asked to detail that.

why is it you can't serve or can't be fair and impartial? the judge has already ruled he will not ask those questions. someone self identifies as being unable to serve, they will be thanked for showing up, dismissed and moved on to other prospective jurors who will fill out the 42 question questionnaire, read their answers out loud, and the prosecution and defense will be given an opportunity to challenge certain jurors for cause. each of them will get 10 challenges because of the type of felony being charged under new york state ten. after they move through the first group, they will keep going until they get 12 jurors and a certain number of alternates. >> can i tell you how great you are? you are so filled with information. i so appreciate you always coming on and giving us the information and making things clear. i appreciate it. >> i'm going to be as pink as my sweater. thank you. >> thanks. make sure to join us for our special coverage on monday of

trump's first criminal trial. we will kick off programming. andrea mitchell, chris jansing and katy tur pick things up. it begins monday, 10:00 a.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. next, mark barden whose son was killed at sandy hook joins us. us

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55 past the hour. the biden administration announcing a new action to fight gun violence. the new rule would require anyone in the business of selling guns to have a background check. it will take affect in a month but could face legal challenges. joining us now is mark barden whose 7-year-old son daniel was killed in the sandy hook massacre. thank you for being with us. what are your thoughts on this new action? >> it's the most significant piece of legislation around background checks since we started advocating for closing a loophole in the federal background check system over 11 years ago, in 2013, in the

aftermath of the shooting tragedy that took our little daniel from us. we were advocating for -- we were meeting for months with legislators, both sides of the aisle, all over capitol hill to encourage them to do the right thing and vote for the amendment, to close the loophole. i vowed then when we -- when that bill failed, despite 90% of americans supporting it, and we had over half of the senate -- we needed 60 votes. i think we got 54 in the end. i vowed then in our announcement from the rose gartdgordon with president obama that we will continue to work on this. this is a huge moment for me. we have been continuing with sandy hook promise. we have been working on this externally, behind the scenes, to continue to shore up and

expand background checks and get to universal background checks. this is a huge moment to codify this and to make sure folks who are in the business of selling fire didn't arms are doing that the way they should be, which is to conduct a background check before they make a transfer. >> mark, we have been seeing prosecutors targeting now adults tied to shootings by their children. the former assistant principal where a 6-year-old student shot his teacher is being charged. parents of a school shooter were sentenced. what's your reaction to this? >> you know, yes, there is culpability, there's responsibility. it's negligence if families leave loaded firearms out in the home where children or those who should not have access to them do get access, the results are devastating. we see this all the time. we don't see it all the time. it happens all the time and we don't see the news where toddlers are coming across

loaded fire arms and the results are deadly and disastrous. there needs to be a law of the land, uniform and consistent across the states at the federal level that you have to secure your firearms safely, which is what any responsible gun owner already does. >> i was looking at the picture of you and daniel. daniel would be 18 today. he would be turning 19 in september. >> that's right. >> this never gets in any way any easier. so many dreams and so many of the things that daniel could have achieved and would have done to help others. mark, how do the days become months become years and become decades? >> yeah, that's such a question,

jose. i will share with you that just this morning -- this is a theme where we get a win. we work and work and work and work and we get something done like this -- we have been working hard on this for 11 years. to get this piece of this -- to get this close -- thanks to bipartisan support through congress and the biden administration for getting this done, it's a great win and it will save lives. the evidence is there. we know it will save lives. at the end of that, my daniel is still gone. i made a promise to honor him, to protect my surviving children and to prevent families from having to endure this life-shattering pain of losing a loved one to gun violence. >> i so appreciate, mark, you being on with us and speaking about daniel and showing