>> reporter: kate snow, surrounded by thousands. >> i've done this once before and i got emotional then and i feel myself getting emotional now. it is just something about it that is so incredibly special. i think it is maybe the commonality, that we are all experiencing one thing at the same time. >> reporter: for others, it marked a new beginning. hundreds of couples exchanged vows in russellville, arkansas, including michelle and randy weller. >> we will always remember our wedding day. >> reporter: despite concerns about the cloudy forecast, the views did not disappoint. >> you can see the bottom corner coming out. there you go. right there on the right. >> reporter: pure magic infecting all of us who paused for a few minutes today and simply looked up. >> all of us together experiencing this one thing togetherness. something we need more of.

the solar eclipse is taking us off the air tonight. on that unified note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. i hope you were able to get out and see the eclipse today. i was not in a place where there was 100% totality. but, it was still amazing. it was just incredible to see. i am so grateful that the universe chooses every once in a while to show us it's party tricks. this is one of the best ones that it has. i am also grateful that science tells us 12 expected and how to protect our eyes so we don't all find ourselves staring at it. it was fantastic. it feels amazing to be able to see these things. a fantastic reminder that we are all infinitesimal blips in

this huge universe but also that we are part of something that is unimaginably huge, something that is bigger than the world. it is such a great thing. that said, i do feel like between the northeast and new york city getting this big rear earthquake and the eclipse and mount etna starting to blow smoke rings, between all those things happening in close proximity, i'm a little topped up on the universe showing off. just a lot in close succession. i am ready to go back to boring now. in today's news, here is something that is less of a party trick, more of a dirty trick. have you ever heard the term spoofing? people can use hacking techniques so they can buy software that spoofs their phone number. so, the way that might appear

in your life is you get a call on a landline, if you still have a landline, or more likely on your cell phone. if there is caller i.d., when you get that call, the caller i.d. says something that is not true. if somebody has spoofed their number, the caller i.d. will make it look like they are calling from somewhere they are not calling from. it will make it look like it is a local number when they are not calling from somewhere local or it will make it look like it someone who you know that is calling you when in fact, it is not. for one financial company that got busted for doing this, they would sometimes make your calls to their customers look like they were coming from one of their relatives. so like your cell phone would ring, with look at the screen and it was a mom is calling or that is calling. you answer and it is not your mom, not your dad, it is a debt collector from this company.

the company that got busted doing this would make it look like it was people's relatives calling them. they would also sometimes spoofed their phone number to make it look like this particularly nasty trick, they would call you and spoofed their number so it looked like they were a florist, a flower company that would have flower delivery for you. they would pretend to be that kind of a business, when in fact, you answer the call. or, alternatively, they would have to call, look on your phone like they were a pizza place. they would pretend to be a pizza place calling you, they tell you they had a delivery for you, somebody wants to send you a pizza or somebody wants to send you flowers. they were given your number because they need to complete the delivery, they just need to know where you are so they can drop off this gift. they can drop off this delivery. who doesn't want a pizza sent from a friend? who doesn't want some flowers sent from a friend? the reason this financial company would do that kind of spoofing that kind of scam,

that kind of trick is so they could find out where you are and once told them where you are because you are expecting the pizza order flowers, what they would actually send to your door, where you were at that moment, or the debt collectors. or, they would send out a repo man to that location to come break into your car and take it. this was a financial company doing this, not just like an organized crime gang or something. this was a registered american financial institution doing this. and, in 2015 during the obama administration, they finally got in trouble for it. that scam where they used fake phone numbers to trick people into picking up their phone or giving up their location, they were accused of working that scheme more than 130,000 times. they also made other kinds of threats. they falsely threatened people that they were going to be criminally charged. this

financial company had no power to bring criminal charges against anyone. but, when they came after you, one of the things they would do repeatedly is they threatened that they could get you locked up, that they could get you arrested. and, they wouldn't just call you and make threats like this, they would call your relatives, they would call your actual mom. they would call your friends, they would call the landlord, they would call your boss. that was one of their favorite technique, appears the, calling people's place of employment, start making these threats about him, the employee at this company, telling your boss how much trouble that you are in. how is that going to go over for you at work? the same company was also found to have changed the terms of people's loans without notifying their customers that they were making those changes. they just make the change on their own, presumably to their own benefit, and they chase you for it without you having had any notification that your loan was under different terms. they were doing all of these different things all at once and they finally got in trouble

for some of it in 2015. citing illegal threats and deception from this financial company, the consumer financial protection bureau made them pay more than $48 million in fines during the obama administration. more than $48 million in fines and restitution, i should say to their customers after the cfpb went after them for using techniques access. so the basic business of this company was loans. it was super high interest loans, car loans, specifically to people who didn't have good credit. so, you need a car, everybody, almost everybody needs a car. you need a car but you have bad credit, for some reason. i'm sorry about that, that is too bad. the good news is there's this one is that will give you a car loan even though you have bad credit. bad news is it is this place,

this place that will call your mom, call your grandma and harass them about your car loan. it will call your boss to harass you about your car loan. they will threatened to arrest you and threaten to lock you up and use weird phone number spoofing tricks to get you to inadvertently give up your location so they can go get after you in person. even if it all goes well, they are still going to charge him 20% interest on that terrible loan, even if they are not hounding you yet and threatening you to the point where they have to pay nearly $50 million in fines and restitution. how badly do you need that car? the same car loan company was sued by the u.s. department of justice for illegally repossessing cars from active- duty members of the united states military. nice. also, for gouging active-duty u.s. service members and interest rates with illegally high interest rates that his company was not legally allowed to charge to servicemembers. they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to settle that part

of how they were doing business with the u.s. justice department. it's terrible, right? but, the guy who ran the companies that did those things came very wealthy doing those things. a billionaire many times over. he became also the largest shareholder of a weird bank in southern california. a bank that initially called itself, i did not make this logo myself at home on an etch- a-sketch. no, they initially really did call themselves bank of internet usa. that was their name. somebody lost at matt lives. bank of internet usa. this bank, with the car loan guy as one of their biggest shareholders and ultimately their largest shareholder, this bank expanded that guys horizons and other headline grabbing business practices

like, say, the tugboat operator in alabama who ended up with a business loan from that bank at 127% interest. or, how about the mom and pop distribution business in wilburn, massachusetts. their business loan and stop at 92% interest and required daily payments. how about a restaurant, a great, well reviewed, excellent, super cute restaurant in new york city ? they needed a $67,000.00 business loan to do a renovation. they ended up with that loan at 268% interest. 268% interest. if you would like to get out from under that, just pay it off all at once because who can pay 268% interest, sorry, no thank you, they are not interested in that it appears there is a 30% penalty you have to pay just for the privilege of paying that loan off. by the end of the obama

administration, this entity was also under investigation by the sec. bank of internet. under investigation by the sec. a whistleblower who is supposed to be some internal auditor at the company had come forward and made allegations that the bank's clients included criminals and "notorious criminals," and "high-level foreign officials from major oil-producing countries and war zones." the whistleblower made allegations about the bank involving alleged tax evasion and money laundering and lying to the sec. they were under sec investigation. that investigation appears to have gone away once donald trump became president in 2017. when donald trump became president in 2017, he also took the consumer financial protection grill off the board entirely. it, his administration disempower the agency, the same

agency that had forced the car loan companies to pay $48 million in fines and restitution, donald trump very conveniently for those companies in the billionaire who ran those companies, very conveniently made that agency go away. while trump was in office, this guy is a bank started making big surprise loans to jared kushner's family real estate business. at least three major multimillion dollar real estate related loans and transactions benefiting jared's family business while jared was working in the trump white house. while the trump white house was doing things very beneficial to this bank and to its senior shareholders. i wonder if they ever thought about calling jared's family members to harass them about the loans or if they ever called him pretending to be a florist so they can find out where he was and send the repo man out to get him. i wonder if they ever used those techniques on him. the story of this super high interest car loan company

threatening its customers and getting in trouble all over the place for doing it, that story has crossed over now from the misses and from the news of fraud and crime and national politics news because this is the source of funds now that is supporting the man who has a very good shot of picking the next president of the united states. this is now the major source of funds for former president donald trump as he prepares to sit as a defendant in his first felony criminal trial that starts one week from today while he simultaneously is running for president as the presumptive nominee of the republican party. the bank question here really did used to be called bank of internet usa. it has now changed its name to

axos bank. when donald trump left office in 2021, normal banks purported to be shocked and horrified by him using mob violence to attack the u.s. capitol to try to stay in power by violence, despite losing the election. that was a particularly acute financial problem for him right when he left office because in 2021, as he left office, he was facing looming deadlines to pay back loans on both his trump tower property in new york and his golf club in south order. those loans were coming to when normal banks wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. not every bank, it turns out, is normal. this bank, axos bank bailed him out of both of those huge loans. they came out of nowhere, provided $225 million to trump just before the deadline by which he needed to pay off those loans. they absolutely rescued him. he also at the time wanted to get out of one of his big money losing ventures, that trump

branded d.c. hotel. while trump was president, that hotel was, of course, a convenient place to accept small bribes. any place a customer wanted to put money, any customer who wanted to put money in the sitting president pocket could, in effect and some by spending money at that hotel either on rooms or the restaurants and what have you. while i'm sure that was a great source of pleasure and flattery to the former president while he was president, even with that weird secondary motivation for people to do business there, the hotel, overall, was a big economic loser. while trump was president, that hotel lost $70 million. so, we wanted, he wanted to unload it. this weird thing happened because it is a money losing property. nevertheless, after he left office, when he put it up for sale, he was able to get a surprisingly high price for it. why was that? well, in part, it was because the same bank, axos bank provided a $190 million to

greased the deal. now, is that a lot of money for them to put into it ? i don't know but trump and his companies pocket nearly half that amount when the deal was done so it seems like maybe that was plenty enough money to put into that deal to make it a sweet deal for him. so, this one entity, this financial entity linked to this usurious car loan sky, they've already dumped over $400 million on trump since he left office. this is not counting the tens of millions of dollars they dumped on jared while jared was in the trump white house, and after. now it is the same folks who have come back and offered yet more. in the front trial against trump's real estate business, he was told by the court to put up a bond for $464 million to cover the huge judgment against

him in the front trial. trump's lawyers told the court they approached 30 different firms about providing the bond, all the firms said no. they said everybody they went to said no because of that, they said they had even in practical terms it is an impossibility to get a bond that big. no one will do it. we've gone to 30 different firms. it is impossible. we would have to put real estate to be the collateral for a bond that big. nobody willing to consider a bond that they will accept real estate as collateral. real estate as collateral, it cannot be done. turns out, maybe that wasn't true. turns out, could have been done. this same guy, the car loan sky, the tent you are the pizza place super high interest car garage, call your mom carl and i, the biggest shareholder in the bank that has one after another and paying off all of trump's debts for him since he left office, this same guy says actually he would be happy to put up the bond.

he says that he told trump supporters he would put up that bond. explicitly, he would take real estate as collateral. that was no problem for him. trump supporters apparently never told the court that this guy had offered to post the bond. they told the court no one would post this bond. the appeals court apparently believing that no one would post the bond, then lowered the bond, lowered it down to 170, $175 million, which was somehow then covered by this guy, who had already offered to put up the much larger amount. even though the court was told by trump's lawyers that no one would do that. what did trump have to do to be the recipient of such generosity from a man who, after all, is not that generous ? a man who, after all, would threaten illegally to lock you up for missing a car payment,

according to the consumer financial protection bureau, whose a bank charged a harlem soul food restaurant 268% interest on their business loan? a guy who demanded daily payments from a small business in massachusetts that he was charging over 90% interest. this does not seem like a guy who is involved in a lot of super busy generous business dealings. what is he charging trump for this $175 million favor? "reuters, close quote, "don hankey, the billionaire businessman whose company provided the $175 million bond told reuters that the fee has from charge the former u.s. president was low. don hankey declined to disclose the fee. surety companies typically charge a fee of between 1% and 2% of the face value of the bond, which would mean his fee

should've been between 1.75 and $3 million. don hankey says he feels his company did not charge trump enough." why does he feel that way? " because of the new york attorney general's subsequent scrutiny of the bond as well as the media attention around it." don hankey said in an interview with reuters, "we probably didn't charge enough." didn't charge enough for the $175 million bond, know what you do, you could call trump and pretend to be a pizza place. ask him where he is so we can get a free pizza, then send a repo man. or something. none of this is a secret or hard to find. there has been incredible reporting on the story. tonight, we have used reporting from nbc news and "the new york times," and "rolling stone," and that incredible quote i

just mentioned is from "reuters." this stuff is known and the guy who was behind all of these hundreds of millions of dollars being shoveled trump in his time of need has been happy to do interviews about how happy he is to do it. and, certainly there is a disturbance in the cosmos to have a man whose company was sued by the justice department for charging illegally high interest rates to active-duty members of the u.s. military and illegally repossessing soldiers cars so he could become a billionaire, there is a disturbance in the cosmos that that same guy is now volunteering to a news organization, it was a real low fee, i charged him for this recent $175 million favor i posted for him after i already shuffled for him, me and these entities already shoveled him

more than $400 million before this. i didn't charge him much, why should i? maybe i should have charged him a little more. there is something that blots out the sun in that story. except not in a way that makes you appreciate the wonders of the universe, it makes you want to pound nails into something with her for head, if you are like me. but, as mentioned in that "reuters," story, this is also known not just as a news story, it is a legal story and a legal question. because, this bond, this remarkable gift from this incredible company is how trump is avoiding potential bankruptcy. it is how trump is avoiding potentially having to sign over his bank accounts and his brokerage accounts and selling off his assets just one week before he becomes a defendant is in his first criminal trial. the new york attorney general's office is called for the court to scrutinize this gift, this bond and has called on the company that provided it to justify it. just cosmically, ethically. this is a heck of an on-ramp to

the would-be next republican presidential administration. legally, though, will it stand and how will that be determined? joining us now is former new york assistant attorney general, adam he was to work in the attorney general's office. mr. it is nice to have you with us. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me on. >> let me first ask you, am i explaining that, have i explained any of it the wrong way around or put the wrong test on it? i feel like i am not a lawyer and a lot of us are learning about sureties and bonds and bonding agencies by the seat of our pants as we try to follow this politician through the pinball machine he's put us all in ? >> i think it works perfectly and it raises a lot of questions, both from a political or regulatory standpoint and also from a legal standpoint. we have an interesting hearing in court on this coming up on the 22nd. >> what are the legal issues that stand out to you from the

reporting we sat on the issue so far? >> this bond, as you said, allows trump to stave off enforcement, stops the attorney general from seizing his assets, seizing his bank accounts, seizing his real estate and the bond is supposed to secure the judgment, or at least secure the $175 million portion. and, this bond fails to do that. it didn't come from those 13 new york insurers that he mentioned, it came out of left field. or, as the reporting you described. >> in terms of who is allowed to do these sort of things and under what terms, how will this company have to justify the bond , according to the demands of the new york attorney general, and how will the court evaluate whether it is kosher?

>> a couple of things. first, procedurally, these bonds, by law, must be written by a new york insurer. this insurer, knight insuance, is not a new york insurer. it is not a valid bond in new york. that is the first thing. even if you look beyond the procedural requirements, and insurer has to have enough capitol, enough money to make good. if i went out and started writing car insurance, i very quickly run out of money. if i went out on the street and road car insurance. similarly, the law ensures, and insurer has to have enough capitol, 10 times as much capitol as any given policy or any given bond. here, they have very far from 10 times and they say conveniently, well, the new york law doesn't apply to us, we are not bound by the 10 x requirement because we are not a new york insurer. it is awfully circular. >> we are not bound by those rules because we are not a new york insurer but we are not a new york insurer. let me just ask you about a point about how the court was

communicated with on this point. it seems, i don't know, it seems wrong in a layman's sense that trumps lawyers told the appeals court we can't have a $464 million bond, nobody will pay it. the gentleman who has put the funds now says openly to numerous news organizations i offered to pay the $464 million bond and i made that offer before the court ruled that the bond should be lowered. the court didn't explain the reason that it was going to lower the ruling but presumably, it bore on their decision that they had been advised that nobody could put up a bond that big. should trump and his lawyers have advised the court that they did in fact have somebody on the line who was willing to pay the larger bond amount before the court ruled that the bond would be reduced ? >> they should have told the court we think that we have somebody, we have somebody on

the line, not a new york insurer but we think we have somebody on the line who can guarantee the full amount and we will do what is necessary to get licensed, maybe retroactively but we will come into new york and get licensed. they didn't say that. judge engoron, who ruled on trumps financial chicanery in the first place, will be holding a hearing on all of this and this kind of fun and games will come out at that hearing. >> former new york assistant attorney general, adam thanks for making the time, thanks for clarifying this story. we have much more to come . tonight is a busy night. stay with us. ay with us. ficany reduced kate's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, kate can stay on her mental health meds— (kate) oh, hi buddy! (avo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in

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then some of my republican friends and elected officials and special interests suit us and the supreme court blocked us. that didn't stop us. today, i am proud to announce five major actions to continue to relieve student debt for more than 30 million americans. >> president biden speaking in wisconsin today, announcing a new plan to lower student loan payments for tens of millions of americans who have student loans. the substance of this is straightforward, right? help people who are trending under big student loan payments. our country wants people to go to college so our country should reduce the disincentive to go to college by making it less economically disastrous to do so. people who are having trouble with their student loans, relief that i coming up economic pain, make it easier on them. the substance is straightforward, the politics of it is straightforward. here is the president going to a swing state and filling a program he hopes will be

particularly popular with young people. some people particularly crucial for his bid for reelection. so, the substance is straightforward and important, the politics are straightforward and important for president biden. just as important are the politics on the other side. republicans already sued and successfully blocked one of president biden's plans for forgiving student loans. after president reagan pivoted to use a different program to forgive more student loans, republicans suit to stop that one too. now president biden has announced this latest plan today in wisconsin and so new republican lawsuits against that one or expected any minute as well. and, just think about what that means. step back from that for second. republicans are suing over and over again in multiple states, republicans are suing to make sure that americans have to pay more in student loans, to make sure that you have to pay more interest to banks on your

student loans. that is what they are offering america in this election year. isn't that what america most needs, for banks to make more money off people who took out loans to go to college? isn't that really, you know, morally, isn't that a real justice issue for america? everything is so personality driven in the way we talk about politics, sometimes it just doesn't get covered but what the republicans are offering in terms of policy right now, what they are actually doing in places where they have power, it is all stuff like this. i mean, they really are trying desperately in a concerted effort across multiple republican-controlled states, they are trying as hard as they can to make you pay more to the banks for your student loans. in states where they are in power, they are repealing child labor laws because american voters are desperate for a solution to our long national nightmare of children not being allowed to work overnights in

dangerous jobs. the most influential group of republicans in the u.s. house of representatives just officially proposed raising the retirement age for social security because shortly it is a huge problem in america that we are not forcing our elderly to work and more of their seniormost years before they can collect their social security. raising the retirement age. they are also still crusading against in vitro fertilization. the republican study group house pushing against ivf and still pushing for a national abortion ban, even in the blue states, right, on top of the draconian state bans that they've already put into place in almost every state in the country where republicans are in control. this is not a popular suite of policy proposals and policy options from the republican party. the things republicans are setting themselves up against are supported by 70, 80, 90% of americans, in some cases. so, yes, if i were them, i

would prefer personality driven politics coverage as well. even so, their leader donald trump, really did try to change his press coverage on one of those agenda items, on one of the agenda items on which republicans are pursuing their most unpopular policy choices. that is on the issue of abortion. that is an issue that has new very, very jagged political edge that is just emerging from a very unexpected place and we have that story coming up, next. stay with us. us. furniture, gifts and more. when you need 'just the thing' to make your space feel like new... etsy has it. after advil: let's dive in! but...what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. with cascade platinum plus,

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here's how the new york times put it in a headline today. "trump says abortion restrictions should be left to the states." after months of mix signals, donald trump said whatever sticks designed must be the law of the land. similar headline over at the washington post. in the video, trump says abortion policies should be left to states. richter's had effectively the same take away. the writers headline, trump says abortion laws should be decided by u.s. states. similar in the guardian, trump says each u.s. state should determine abortion laws. same thing over at the wall street journal, they gave there's a flourish. trump says states should chart their own pants on abortion. today, donald trump did put out

a video statement which he did indeed say restrictions on abortions are things that should be decided by debatable states. looking at the sidelines, you might get the impression that was somehow trump moderating his position on abortion. these headlines are exactly what donald trump wanted after delivering his remarks on abortion today. sadly, that is exactly what he can't, even though the actual content of donald trump's remarks today indicated something very different than what was in those headlines. the substantive new and important thing articulated by donald trump today was that he has now abandoned any criticism he once had for the strictest abortion bands that are now in effect or under consideration. and, i love me some new york times and i love the washington post and reuters and i love the guardian and i love "the wall

street journal." i reviewed the file free and fair press and i could not do 98% of what i do without reporting from institutions like these to give us the facts on which we race everything that we do in the news business. but, the headline spin today from multiple excellent news agencies about what trump did was just absolutely at odds with the importance of what he said. florida has a total ban on abortion, a six-week ban on abortion that is set to go into effect on may 1st. trump, until now, was critical of strict abortion bands like florida's. used to call abortion bands like that to severe. he called the florida abortion ban a "terrible mistake." today, trump eliminated that from his vocabulary. he voiced no concern whatsoever with florida's abortion ban or any other abortion restriction any statement wants to oppose. trump used to be a critic of six-week bands. now he's apparently fine with it. trump was also segment on the

issue of a national abortion ban, and his own party has been relentlessly pushing. a national ban is something he himself reportedly said he supports as recently as a few weeks ago. trump today also, for what it's worth, falsely accused democrats of executing children. that is what he said democrats abortion policies are. it is to execute children, which is a nice q and on flavor to it, in addition to being completely, completely false. so, perhaps a more accurate headline about donald trump's remarks today might have been something like "channeling cueing on conspiracy theory, donald trump falsely accuses democrats of executing children or trump abandons criticism of strictest state abortion bands." trump abandons mentions of republican proposals for national prescriptions. donald trump said today he is "

hardly the person responsible for the ending of the constitutional right to an abortion." proudly the person responsible for the overturning of roe versus wade." he did extensively say that today and that would have made for a great headline. trump takes personal credit for ending the constitutional right to abortion in america. abandons criticism of most taccone and abortion bands, right? short, snappy, accurate, rightfully spotlighting the issue that roe v. wade has gone and that is the end of it. that is not how it got covered today, which i'm sure trump is delighted with. the substance of the matter gets darker from here because when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, thanks to trump, we didn't just lose the roe v. wade ruling and thereby the constitutional protection of the right to an abortion. we also got something new, right? the case that overturned roe v. wade was called jobs. that decision created a brand- new legal standard, one that would provide a president for

taking away civil liberties of all kinds, one that could be applied not just to abortion but also to save the rights of people. imagine that because we are seeing ripple effects from that decision not only now in our own country but far, far away from us, a continent away in the nation of uganda. activists there have been fighting a radical, deadly new law that effectively hunts gay people. the new law punishes people with life in prison in some cases. in some cases, it punishes people being with the death penalty. the death penalty is the penalty for homosexuality. the second highest court in uganda just upheld most of that law, including the death penalty part of it in their ruling, the court in uganda cited dobbs, cited the american supreme court decision that overturned roe v. wade. they cited dobbs as the justification for why the "kill

the gay s bill" is legally sound. we got the new standard that replaces roe v. wade, the dobbs standard that is now cited internationally as evidence that even in america, nobody has a right to bodily autonomy. not getting right to an abortion and not to survive your own government if they decide to kill you for being gay. joining us now is melissa murray. thanks for being here, it is nice to see you. >> great to be here. >> despite appearances, i do not love doing media criticism. it is not a forte. i am also not a lawyer. but, i did feel like the legal, or the headline coverage today, the media coverage of trump's statements missed the net of what it is that he actually

said and the implications of his statement. as a lawyer, as a close observer of these things, do you agree? >> i think that is right. donald trump has checked back on issues of reproductive freedom. he had said he was in favor of a ban on abortion at perhaps 15 weeks, 20 weeks. that would still be quite a significant development and it really shows how much the overton window has shifted since dobbs. a 15 week ban, a 20 week pin would've been unconstitutional under roe v. wade and planned parenthood versus casey. we have moved far beyond that. this has been an issue with him and with his party. they keep moving further and further to the right. it seems he's willing to go there. as you say, it is not just questions of reproductive freedom in this country. dobbs has unsettled a whole body of jurisprudence that guarantees privacy and dignity, and bodily autonomy for all individuals and it has ripple effects in other areas, like marriage, like consensual , and we are seeing that not here in

the united states just yet but in other places and it is very clear we could also feel reverberations in this country as well. >> what do you make of this court in uganda citing dobbs as essentially as a way to hold up america as a country that also believes there is no bodily autonomy, that the state's right to encroach on your bodily autonomy, in this case, including to institute the death penalty for certain offenses associated with homosexuality, what do you make of them citing us in that way for that purpose? >> dobbs is an authoritarian opinion and this is the kind of decision that promotes the kind of authoritarianism we thought we had said goodbye to him bowers versus hardwick. it is not just that the ugandan court said that dobbs eliminated any right to bodily autonomy in the united states.

what is it specifically was that this was a question that was reserved for the people and was being returned to the people and the people were debating this and essentially, it is just a claim that majority will can, and should, prevail, even over basic protections for minorities and protections for fundamental rights. it is essentially a call for mob rule and we are seeing it in uganda and we could see it here. people forget that justice thomas comes comments in dobbs was an invitation to begin litigating a range of different protections like protections for contraception, protections for intimate lifelike same- sexand same-sex marriage. all of those are on the table now that roe v. wade has fallen and dobbs is the law of the land. >> melissa murray, law professor at new york university. melissa, thank you so much for being here. it is not complex, it is just dark and your clarity is really helpful for us understanding. thank you. we will be right back. stay with us. ay with us. i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word.

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