be. >> representation, right. >> christine romans, always good to see you. that's going to do it for us this hour, join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. good to be with you, i'm katy tur. is this a turning point in the war between israel and hamas? a moment where the u.s. stops giving unconditioning support to israel's war effort. president biden just got off the phone with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. their first call since seven aid workers from world central kitchen were called. the white house says the president told bibi to make changes how he's waging the war, mitigate civilian harm, address the humanitarian suffering, ensure the safety of aid workers or risk losing u.s. support. secretary of state antony

blinken elaborated a moment ago in brussels. >> here's the current reality in gaza. despite important steps that israel is taking to allow assistance into gaza, the results on the ground are woefully insufficient and unacceptable. 100% of the population in gaza knows acute levels of food insecurity. 100% of the population is in need of humanitarian assistance. and those working heroically to provide that assistance are doing so in great peril to their own lives. this week's horrific attack on the world central kitchen was not the first such incident. it must be the last. >> so why now, thousands of palestinians have already died, and more than a million others have been going hungry for months.

the difference maker is clearly world central kitchen. that's because its founder, jose andres has unparalleled support, goodwill, and influence around the world. but especially in washington, d.c. he is sewn into the city's fabric. when he tells the world his aid workers were systematically targeted car by car, it appears washington listens. >> they were not successful. they keep trying. this happened over more than 1.5, 1.8 kilometers. so this was not bad situation where, oops we drop the bomb in the wrong place or not. >> on top of this, first lady jill biden allegedly had enough as well. nbc news has learned, president biden told attendees at a recent lunch, the first lady has been telling him to stop the war, saying, quote, stop it. stop it now. joining me now from tel aviv is

nbc news correspondent raf sanchez. >> reporter: we talked yesterday about that long list of unanswered questions following those deadly israeli air strikes. how is it that the idf opened fire when those vehicles were clearly marked with the logo of the world central kitchen. how it they opened fire when world value kitchen says it coordinated the movements of that aid convoy with the idf ahead of time. now world central kitchen is saying it does not trust the israeli military to get answers to those questions. it wants to see an independent investigation conducted by a third party. they are calling on israel to preserve evidence, video, audio, any orders in between israeli units, and that is the sentiment that was echoed to me earlier when i had the chance to speak to the parents of jacob flickenger, the u.s., canadian,

duel citizen among the seven aid workers killed. his parents saying they believe the israeli government owes them an apology, potentially owes them reparations, but it was really striking to me, katy, that amid the searing personal grief that these parents are feeling at the loss of their only son, they say that they are just two people, one family suffering right now, and that there are thousands and thousands of families who have lost somebody in gaza. take a listen. >> we are two people who suffer because we have lost our only son, but we are only two. there are thousands and thousands. >> yeah. >> you know, there are five other world central kitchen aid workers killed in this attack. there were 200 aid workers in gaza that have been killed. >> reporter: now, a couple of

hours before those israeli air strikes on monday, which killed the world central kitchen staff, there was explosion at the iranian embassy in syria. iran says that was an attack carried out by israel, which killed several officers from the iranian revolutionary guard, and tonight israel is on high alert for potential iranian retaliation. israel's air defense systems are up. the military has canceled leave for combat units. earlier today, the chief spokesperson of the idf acknowledged that the israeli military is jamming gps, so google maps, other locations, service devices, not working right now in israel, and he is telling people, you don't need to panic, you don't need to run to atms, buy water, buy generators, you do need to follow instructions coming from the israeli government. an israeli official tells me at

this point, there is no concrete intelligence about an imminent attack, that these are threats that israel is taking seriously. >> israel's calling it a complicated few days. raf sanchez, thank you very much. joining us now, nbc news who's correspondent, monica alba, and political and diplomatic correspondent for the times of israel, tal snyder. they used very specific language, i paraphrased it in my lead-in, what does this statement say, and what does it not say? >> reporter: it's notable. we're seeing language in the readout that we haven't seen in the many conversations between the president and the prime minister over the course of these six months of this war. for the first time, the u.s. is effectively telling israel, if you don't take immediate steps to protect aid workers in gaza and allow more humanitarian aid into gaza, the u.s. is going to reevaluate its policy, which we are told according to two u.s.

officials does mean that the u.s. could be potentially conditioning military aid that it gives to israel, based on whether in the coming hours and days they rectify some of this situation that the president communicated simply as unacceptable. so that's notable because we have been talking about this for months, katy. the idea that rhetoric can shift, and outrage can grow, but whether policy is actually going to change when it comes to military aid, that is another dynamic that would be really significant if it does happen. now we will wait to see whether israel does respond and make any changes, and we did learn that some of the examples of that could be opening up more border crossings, again, to allow more aid trucks to get in. right now, it's just a trickle, and then also ensuring that the israelis aren't being as stringent with some of the inspection of what can be allowed into gaza. that's specifically what the president pushed the prime minister on, and then the other significant take away here is

about calling for an immediate cease fire, and to accept the terms on the table right now for a hostage deal to release the remaining hostages which effectively, the president, we understand, told the prime minister wrap this up, accept this now, you really cannot delay it. and that was in stronger and more stark terms than has been communicated in the past, and also, katy, we're learning this new piece of information, cia director bill burns will be traveling abroad again this weekend to continue those talks, and they hope, nail down any kind of a hostage deal. >> so talk to me about what this is like in israel now, how this international outrage over the deaths of these world central kitchen aid workers is playing on the streets of israel. we have seen mass protests against benjamin netanyahu, what is it like there? >> so, first of all, there's world central kitchen also helped israelis in the days after the atrocities of the massacre on the october 7th.

they were inside israel, serving food to people who were displaced, and we owed them a great deal from the israeli people. so it's a very very, you know, sad moment for everybody here. a spirited demonstration, it's not a secret that benjamin netanyahu is not very popular at the moment. it was not popular even before october 7th, but really after the war his numbers, you know, took a deep dive, and many people are taking to the streets, you know, they are unhappy with the way the negotiation to get the israeli hostages out are going. as you all know there's 134 people inside gaza snatched from their beds on a saturday morning in israel, you know, barefoot, without glasses and so on. they are still in the tunnels, and people here are not happy with the way the government conducts those negotiations with the other side. it's a terror organization, and they want to release murderers in exchange for these people,

but people here, you know, they agreed to it. those demonstrations, there are also demonstrations with respect to many other issues, you know, tonight is quiet. there was a tense day today. everybody said that iran attack is imminent, maybe tomorrow is the last friday of the holy month of ramadan, the muslim holiday, so they expect maybe something to take place tomorrow. we don't know that for sure. there is not early warning. so it stands for tomorrow. i suppose if tomorrow will go quiet, then maybe the holiday, so the muslims, you know we have many muslims in our society. they have a whole week of celebrations as of saturday. and we do hope those days will pass so they can have their holiday and we will not have, you know, let's hope for that. i don't know if that's going to happen. >> it's been certainly obviously

a very tense six months but entering into another even more intense period with potential reaction from iran. they're certainly threatening it. always good to talk to you. senior fellow at the carnegie endowment, and former department of state arab israeli negotiator, aaron david miller. i don't think we have talked about a moment, it feels like an inflection point, a real inflection point right now, and i think it's fair to say a lot of the credit is due to jose andres and the reputation that he has garnered around the world, the goodwill he has garnered and the influence he has within washington, d.c. >> it was a tragedy, and it was completely unnecessary. there's no doubt about that. and, yes, everything you said about jose andres is absolutely the case. i would only point out something that is all too obvious, that basically we're in the sixth month of the war, we have seen thousands upon thousands of palestinians, innocents killed

and exponential increase in palestinian casualties, and a humanitarian catastrophe, catastrophic starvation, and real reports of the possibility of famine soon, and yet it took this, it's a commentary, katy, i think. enough said about that. i don't know, inflection point, you know, red lines with respect to israel have a way of turning pink, and there's no doubt that this was a tough 30-minute conversation. it was clearly a very carefully scripted, the white house statement you posted used extremely specific language. i don't know if they used the term reassessment. that is a special term of art in the u.s.-israeli relationship, threatened to do it in 1975, and prime minister rabin, the real

question, though, is, again, is this words over deeds or is the administration serious about imposing significant cost and consequences. consequences that you and i, normal humans would consider as real pressure. seems to be two areas, one israel needs to lighten to say the least, and make facilitating humanitarian assistance into gaza, and there's several ways the israelis could easily do that. then the second issue, second sort of red line, even though that wasn't referred to as a red line, is can you hurry up and do a hostage deal. hostage for prisoner deal with hamas. that's going to be trickier, i suspect. given the issues that are at stake. remember, this conflict is not one hand clapping. there's another party to this conflict, a vicious terrorist organization that is holding and abusing, i might add, hostages,

including six americans. and what impact that's going to have on hamas's negotiating posture, the fact that the administration is somehow threatening to reassess is unclear. i think there's a way to facilitate, to diffuse this for the good of everyone concerned. but i think it's going to be an extremely rocky road in the days and weeks to come. >> you mentioned using the term reassess, and how that has specific definitions in diplomacy. that term is not in the statement. i'll read you the pertinent point word for word. he made clear that u.s. policy with respect to gaza will be determined by our assessment of israel's immediate action on these steps. so you're not getting the word reassess, you're getting determined. >> whoever drafted that statement, i suspect knows a fair amount of history about the nature of the u.s. israeli

relationship. >> still, assessment toward conclusion, which is using the leverage the administration has had from the beginning. slow walk condition, restrict you as military assistance. introduce u.s. resolutions or abstain or vote for others who introduce resolutions that are critical of israel, and finally, abandon the issue of israeli hamas negotiations entirely. and simply press the israelis for immediate cessation of hostilities. the president uses immediate cease fire, but i think it's quite clear that there won't be, cannot be, nor can the u.s. enforce one, unless the other party to this negotiation comes through with what they need to do, which is to release hostages and agree to deescalate the conflict. >> i think a lot of people think this is a relatively simple calculus for the administration. just take away the weapons that

israel is using against gaza. don't supply them with the bombs, don't supply them with the fighter jets, et cetera, but the wrinkle here, that i think maybe is not as fully appreciated is that arming israel is a deterrence to iran, which is saber rattling right now, quite aggressively. it's a deterrence to hezbollah and other actors in the region that don't want israel to be there. >> this president has shied away from it, in large part because i think of his emotional commitment. he said repeatedly, implied and stated that the issue of denying israel weaponry, although he caveated that by saying defensive weaponry, but look at the sales that are already going through. in the last several weeks, the administration twice has bypassed congress in order to facilitate the delivery of military equipment to israel. so i think your point, though, is right about the possibility of an escalation along the israeli lebanese boarder and what signal hezbollah iran would

draw from the fact that the u.s. would do something it's never done before. it's delayed the delivery of the administration. but they seem to be implying if in fact the israelis don't fall into line that this assessment of u.s. policy going forward is going to be quite critical and quite consequential. it's still hard for me to believe that the administration is prepared to cut off and/or restrict military equipment to israel, particularly now that the iranian, israeli, hezbollah equation could easily break out. >> yeah, it's a difficult situation but it does seem pretty clear that something does need to happen, given the situation in gaza. it is just completely untenable, outrageous, some would say. aaron david miller, really good to have you, thank you as always. >> thank you, katy.

coming up, pushing back, a group of women denied medically necessary abortions are suing tennessee. one of them joins me next. and she speaks, judge aileen cannon finally makes a decision today, what she ruled regarding one of donald trump's key motions in the classified documents case. plus, donald trump loses in nebraska, what he was trying to do to make the electoral map more favorable and what republicans will try next. we're back in 90 seconds. we're back in 90 seconds ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

a tennessee court is hearing arguments from lawyers today representing seven women who were denied abortions despite dangerous pregnancy complications. they're trying to block the state's near total ban on abortions until there's more clarity in the law. specifically on what exactly constitutes a medical emergency. joining us now from nashville, nbc news correspondent priya sridhar. good to have you. bring us up to speed. >> reporter: yeah, so the center for reproductive rights, which is representing the seven tennessee women and two doctors is basically saying that the abortion ban violates the state's constitution right to life when it comes to these pregnant women and they're asking for a temporary block of the enforcement of this ban, and they're also asking for more specificity when it comes to the necessary medical exception clause. representatives from the tennessee attorney general's office on the other hand are saying that they think that the

clause is sufficient, and they're saying that perhaps this is more of a policy debate that should be taking place at the state legislature and not in the courthouse behind me here. let's take a listen to what both sides had to say today. >> tennessee's criminal abortion ban is endangering the lives of pregnant women across the state. none of these seven plaintiffs wanted what the defendants have called an election abortion. they all needed abortion care because of serious risks to their own health. >> while we can all agree that the past health circumstances are tremendously unfortunate, i submit here they do not provide a legal reason to invalidate the medical exception at issue in this case. >> reporter: now, a three-judge panel is hearing this case today, but they did indicate at the beginning of this hearing that they're not going to be making a ruling today.

>> thank you very much. i appreciate it. now let's go to our next guest, joining us now is alley phillips, a tennessee abortion care plaintiff, one of the women suing, also running for the tennessee house of representatives as a democratic candidate. ali, thank you very much for joining us, and you're doing this because this is personal to you. this has happened to you. you were pregnant with your second child, and you were told that pregnancy was not viable, the baby would not live. tell me what doctors told you. >> yes, correct. and thank you so much for having me on today. like you said, this was a planned for and wanted pregnancy. after my 19-week anatomy scan we were referred over to a high risk doctor, and in that appointment is when we found out that nearly every organ in our daughter's body did not form correctly, and that we had two options, we could continue the pregnancy, but that posed a

significant health risk to my fertility or my life. she could not offer any resources on navigating out of state care. so i was left to my own devices in figuring out how to get the health care i needed and how to find that health care quickly. >> what did you do? >> i ended up calling multiple states, i think i called four or five different states that accepted a 20-week abortion, had to find flights, hotels, and ended up starting a go fund me online because my husband and i, we are low income, we couldn't afford the unexpected expenses that it was going to cost to leave the state, and so we ended up going to new york city and manhattan, and i arrived there on march 7th, roughly a week and a half after my high risk appointment and at that clinic, i found out that my daughter had passed in utero and my risk of infection, blood clots or going septic increased and i ended up

having that abortion within the hour of finding out that she was deceased. >> that's so horrible, and i'm so sorry you had to go through that. the law in tennessee currently states that there are exceptions, they are to save a pregnant patient's life and to prevent substantial health problems. why is that not clear enough? >> because they can't define what saving life is. is it a 10% chance, a 50% chance, they won't clarify, and they can't because they're not doctors. we have to trust our medical professionals and the oath they took to take care of us, and know that the work they do is authentic and they know what's best for their patients, not our politicians, not our lawmakers, and so it really is a case of it needs to be between the woman and her doctor and that's final. >> why do you think that there's not trust between a woman and her doctor. you can ban abortion, say abortions shouldn't be legal except in the cases where a woman's life is at risk. why is it not, then, just

deferred to the doctor. the doctor says this, and we trust that doctor. why do you think that is? >> well, our doctors right now, at least in tennessee have the fear of the unknown with the vagueness of our laws. they don't want to risk a classy felony, 15 years in prison, losing their medical licenses. this is uprooting their lives for simply offering health care that they, like i said, took an oath to do. i trust any doctor, but my doctor doesn't trust our government and the state she works for. she could not offer the resources. it's not a case of, we as patients don't trust our doctors. and making those best decisions for ourselves. i think that's something the state needs to figure out on their own, and why do they think they have the north. >> my question is, why do you think the state doesn't trust your doctors? >> that is, i guess, a million

dollar question. i think it's a lot of ideologies, and what they think is best for women. and it has nothing rooted in any sort of scientific facts or anything that has to do with medical knowledge. >> it's really good to have you. thank you so much for coming on, and i'm so sorry you had to go through what you went through. that's an awful situation, especially having to travel during. allie phillips, thank you again for joining us. >> thank you for having me. up next, what judges in florida, new york and georgia just ruled that will end donald trump's delay tactics or at least bring an end to some of those tactics and closer to a trial. plus, what the donald trump backed effort was overwhelmingly rejected by lawmakers in nebraska. which one was it, and what it will mean for november. mean for make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades

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it has been a day of legal losses for donald trump. the trump legal team had no luck with judges in georgia, florida, new york, excuse me, and now in florida. joining us now msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. sorry to get in your camera frame there, lisa. i want to start with florida because we finally got a ruling, i think we were waiting six weeks for this. we finally got a ruling from judge aileen cannon on the presidential records act. donald trump was trying to get it thrown out based on that. what happened? >> she basic said, and this is

something she could have written as soon as the motion papers came in. it's what any judge would have done in this situation. on the motion to dismiss, the obligation is to take the indictment as true. there was nothing that mentioned the presidential records act. there's nothing in the case law federally or even in the legislative history that would suggest the espionage act is somehow mooted or displaced by the rights of a president to designate documents as personal under the presidential records act. she's saying for right now i'm going to accept the allegations as true. the it does not provide me with a basis to dismiss 32 counts of national defense information. >> she's saying that you're raising the presidential records act. you're not charged with violating the presidential records act, you're charged with violating the espionage act and obstruction among other things. the pra is not in this indictment. i can't dismiz -- dismiss based

on that but leaves open a door based on jury instructions. >> she believes the presidential records act to the extent that it has any role in this case at all, it could be a defense for donald trump. he could say, well, i couldn't possibly have done the things the government alleges under the espionage act because i have these other rights over here under the presidential records act. and she is leaving open the possibility that that's an issue that could even go to the jury. and so she's saying, look, i asked both sides to propose to me prospective jury instructions, and to the extent that jack smith wants me to decide on that right away so he can appeal, i'm not going to take up that invitation either, and that's where the order gets a little nasty, katy. >> what do you mean nasty? >> she's saying jack smith made a demand, decide properly so i can exercise my appellate rights. the court declines that command as unprecedented and unjust. where a federal judge calls a

party unjust, that's this must difference from saying the party is acting in bad faith. there are fighting words on both sides. it's like watching a bad tennis game where both sides are volleying in language we don't see between parties and federal judges. >> i want to bring us back to the conversation we were having yesterday about this. does this mean, i mean, there's the option of sending the jury to deliberate based on the presidential records act, which donald trump will raise as a defense. that's still open. could she also still throw out the case before it goes to the jury, saying the prosecution has not proved their case? >> the defense is able to make a motion for judgment as a matter of law. they can do that. she can throw out the case then, and to the extent that the government doesn't get to appeal the issue of the presidential records act, sort of coming into the case, then as we discussed yesterday, jeopardy attaches and they don't get a second bite at the apple. >> might this be a basis for

jack smith to try to get they are removed? >> you know i have been pretty conservative about that in saying we're not there yet. i read the language here and the hostility of the language as itself maybe leading to that, and in particular, remember, this comes in the form of an order. when she says to them in a let them eat cake away, any party remains free to avail itself of whatever appellate options it sees fit as provoke bid law, she reduced her refusal to rule on the jury instructions precisely so they can seek a review by the 11th circuit, ask for a writ of mandamus, at a point in the case where the issue wouldn't be appealable and in so doing, could they seek her recusal, they should. >> the other three things that happened today. judge mcafee in georgia said donald trump's free speech motion should be dismissed

because he has free speech. he denied that. in new york, judge merchan did what? >> judge merchan yesterday decided one of trump's motions on presidential immunity, and here in new york, he's not asking to get out of the case on presidential immunity grants, he was seeking to preclude the introduction of certain evidence. too late, you could have raised that issue long ago. >> on april 15th, still for the hush money case, the other interesting thing is a bond hearing, so the civil fraud judgment, i kind of thought that was passed. we were waiting for appeal. donald trump got his bond, his lowered bond, $175 million. >> and we thought that was the end of it, right? >> but there's a hearing now. >> there's a hearing now. a notice for justification of assurety. under new york insurance law, they could ask for clarification and additional information that the bond itself is sufficient to cover the judgment. here they're saying the insurer,

the company out of los angeles is not a business qualified or admitted under new york state law. they don't get the benefit, therefore, of having what's called a certificate from the department of financial services here in new york. >> they're going to show their work. >> they got to show their work, and in particular, what does the attorney general want, they want proof that the bond is sufficiently collateralized. it's a peek under the covers of what happened in the bond that we haven't had yet, and on april 22nd, there will be a hearing. >> we're going to get a look. lisa rubin, just when i think the conversations will be short, they get longer and longer because the material is so fascinating. lisa, thank you. coming up, still ahead, what democrats are doing to rattle rfk jr., and what options republicans in nebraska still have to change the rules and make it a winner take all state to help benefit this guy you see on your tv right now. our tv rigw (avo) in two seconds, eric will realize (man) [laughs] (avo) they're gonna need more space... (man) gotta sell the house (avo) oh..open houses

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nebraska voted to keep its electoral system leaving in place the system that awards electoral votes by congressional district. donald trump endorsed the plan to make it a winner take all state to change things. even though he lost last night, this is not the end of the fight. joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. this was a vote to try to make it easier for donald trump to get at least one more vote in the electoral college. what's going to happen now? >> they've got about two weeks left to try to pull something

off, and the state senator who introduced this bill says that he intends to try once again to get it added to another bill. the question is it germane, relevant to the bill, charlie, he's going to omaha next week. he's going to have a rally to pressure lawmakers to have this happen again here. that one electoral vote could be defining if joe biden were to lose arizona, wisconsin, and georgia. >> and nebraska and maine are the only two states that divvy up their electoral votes that way. everybody else is winner take all. usually one of the congressional districts in nebraska goes for a democrat, am i right about that? >> it's the area, the second congressional district to ride around omaha there. this is a place that donald trump did win in 2016, by about 10,000 votes, but then joe biden won it in 2020, and in a scenario, instead of it being 269-269 electoral votes, in the

scenario that joe biden would pull it off 271-269. we're getting into the math there. but it could happen. >> third party candidates, let's talk about no labels because they were supposed to field a no labels candidacy, a no labels ticket, a unifies ticket, right? what happened? >> this is the breaking news of the afternoon on the third party front because no labels announced that they are not going to go through with this, for the reason being they could not field candidates that they said they believed could credibly win the white house. >> basically no one wanted to do it. >> a great many of them that we know had concerns that they could very well only help donald trump by taking and siphoning votes from joe biden. you have the likes of liz cheney, chris sununu, the list was long of folks that turned them down that were offered the ballot line. they wanted to have one republican, one democrat, and yet nobody wanted to go and potentially be the one that was

blamed next november for putting donald trump in the white house. >> haley, craven. >> i was told they were trying to reach out to dwayne the rock johnson. the list was wrong, and they couldn't find any suitors that wanted to throw their name in the rink, even though that ballot line was available to them. >> what is the rock's line, the rock doesn't smell what you're cooking, right? i think that's what it is. >> you're the expert on the rock. >> i do love the rock. vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. still ahead, which states will have rfk on the ballot, and what are democrats trying to do to stop him. there's an interesting new ad that's going around. an interest that's going around. from pain caused by migraine, nurtec odt may help. it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec.

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digital politics reporter alex sites. i've got to dance -- seitz. i've got dance to that song. glad i wasn't on camera. tell us about the ad and what the democrats are trying to do, where and how are they playing it? >> yeah. this is a -- a radically different approach to third-party independent candidate than democrats have ever taken in the past. they have typically ignored these candidates, not even dayned them worth responding to. a former hillary clinton staffer got scolded by his bosses for making a joke about jill stine in 2016, and now they're running ads. the dnc is paying for mobile billboards to troll him outside of events much there are super pacs, plural, dedicated to stamping out third-party efforts. and there's millions of dollars potentially from big donors that could go on the air to attack people like kennedy. and the reason behind this is democrats have lost two presidential elections in my

lifetime, 2000 with ralph nader in florida, and 2016 with jill stein in states like michigan where they think third-party candidate cost them the election. they do not want to make that mistake again. they view this as an existential threat to joe biden's re-election, and they are taking this very seriously. they're going to exploit all legal opportunities to try to keep him off the ballot where possible, and as well as you know, doing messaging stuff like the ad you played to bring their people back into the fold. >> thank you for being my friend, buddy. appreciate it. coming up, meet the january 6th insurrectionist the former president keeps calling hostages when nbc news reveals about the charges. about the charges. my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back... now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer...♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ i feel free... ♪ ♪ to bear my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪

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ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the horribly and unfairly treated january 6th hostages. >> former president donald trump keeps calling january 6th rioters hostages, demanding their release and accusing the justice department of mistreating and abusing them. nbc's ryan riley dug into the roughly 1,300 people charged for january 6th. more than 900 have been convicted. most of the rest are free as they await trial. but 15 are currently in pretrial detention. in most of those cases riley reports judges found

overwhelming evidence the defendants were dangerous. joining us is justice reporter ryan reilly behind this report. he's written about the attack in his book "saidestion hunters: how january 6th broke the justice system." ryan, he calls them hostages. are they hostages? >> no. i mean, that's the way our entire system of government is set up, right? you have a judicial branch with jar, pointed by members of both parties who adjudicate these cases. people get to appear before their peers who look at the evidence decide whether you're guilty or not guilty. numerous defendants have been acquitted of charges by juries even in d.c. the argument that d.c. jurors can't fairly decide these cases, those arguments have been overcome. but you know, they have not just given the government everything they've wanted, nor have the judges which it's comes to sentencing. we focused on the small number

of pretrial detaines being held at the order of a judge because they have not been convicted of anything. what you can see is a lot of these defendants are charged with really sort of horrific crimes, and there's overwhelming evidence of their guilt. just to give a few highlights there. there's an individual, daniel ball, who is actually accused of throwing an explosive device into the tunnel on january 6th, setting off an explosion. officers talked to the fbi about how they had lost hearing for days afterwards. there was ringing in their ears. some officers thought they were going to die. they thought it was a bomb that went off. they thought it was the end of the line for them during this horrific attack inside that tunnel there. than there's an individual who actually stabbed a man to death after january 6th. he wasn't arrested until this year after footage emerged of him appearing to fire off a gun twice, two gunshots in the air, on january 6th while that mob was fighting on the west side of the capitol. then there's ed kelly, the fourth person to go inside the capitol on january 6th.

he busted the fire door open, got a bunch of other rioters inside, sort of helped lead that mob there. he's wearing paramilitary gear at the time of that. you can see him there coming in the window and pushing it open. after those initial january 6th charges, kelley was released. months later he was rearrested for what, he was plotting to kill the fbi special agents investigating him. his co-defendant in that case has pleaded guilty. kelley has not yet gone to trial. >> that's a pretty serious allegation. ryan reilly, thank you so much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the tensions between special counsel jack smith and the judge who's puzzling the eyebrow raising decisions have led to questions about whether she is indulging donald trump apes strategy of delay -- donald

trump's strategy of delay,