for asylum. and two, because, human migration is part of our history. so if all of that stuff that they say is true, the american economy would be tanking and you and i would be running in fear every single night because of an unleashed crime wave. not true. >> in fact, new york city which had the single biggest violent crime drop last year happened along with the migrant influx in the country. those are two things correlated if not caused. maria, thank you very much. >> thank you. goodnight because i'm right here with edward r. murro. here. wednesday night. alex wagner tonight begins good evening, alex. >> we cannot say it enough. the biden bloodbath does not exist. migrants are notdoot killing pe all over this country willy-nilly. crime rates are dropping in cities that have absorbed the most number of migrants. that is all happening. >> that's true. and thank you atin home for

joining me this hour. this is anthony kern. he's a republican member of the arizona state senate. he's currently running to be the republican nominee for arizona's eighth congressional district. and if he wins that race, it will not be his first time in our nation's capitol. in fact, here's a video of him at the capitol building three years ago. you can see him walking with the rest of the january 6th rioters. anthony kern is had a special interest being there that day. he was also one of the fake electors, he was one of the arizona republican whose submitted fake documents certifying donald trump as the winner of the 2020 election. he even tweeted january 6th it was d-day in d.c. and he was there to support america's duly elected president, donald trump. and today anthony kern, a man

himself would like to be a duly elected member of congress, representing the peoplef of arizona's eighth district. okay, this isiz a layoffly republican seat, but if you are a republican voter in arizona state who maybe doesn't want to bewh related by a capitol riote like anthony kern, there are other options because also running in that primary is blake masters, the election denying unabomber praising candid publicly humiliated in his 2022 bid to be a senator from arizona. but if you are not a blake masters fan you can also vote foryo this man. abe homaday. he is also an election denier and he too lost that race. he was edged out by democrat chris hayes. hamadeeh denied the results of

that election because that is what republicans do when they lose and ended up getting sanctioned by the arizona supreme court. so a b lot of election deniers choose for in the republican primary for arizona's eighth district this year. if you like thehi election deni and just don't like the party, there's still another option. libertarian jacob chansle ych if his nameyc sounds familiar he's the qanontia mon, a man who launched a million screen shots as a fur clad capitol rioter. that is what electoral politics looks like now in dv districts like arizona's eighth. this is the reality republicans fashioned for themselves by refusing to hold donald trump and his allies accountable for the results of january 6th. they stormed the capitol, and now they are storming the republican party. donald trump has made supporting these rioters an plex ist part of his platform for president. he refers to the people arrested

under their actions that day as hostages and plays recordings of them singing at his rallies. he promises to free them as one of his first acts if he is re-elected. and how have republicans responded? by trying to give trump his own airport. this week a group of house republicans introduced a bill to rename washington's dulles airport after donald trump. they want the airport in washington, d.c. to beai named after the only president to ever inspire an attack on washington, d.c. recently one of the few republicans who held trump accountable afterhe january 6th liznu cheney, had this to say about her former colleagues. >> i think you had some elected republicans who believe he would just disappear, who thought we don't have to actually speak against what he did, we don't actually have to stand up to him because certainly, you know, he

will fade away. and obviously that didn't happen. and i thinky when people look back at this time, at the history of this time, those elected officials who know the danger that he poses, he knows what he's saying is a lie, who knows he threatens fundamentally or democratic system but yet have enabled him and gone along, they will be judged very harshly by history. >> they are going to be judged very harshly by history. republican senate leader mitch mcconnell is one of those republicans whol had to learn e hard way that donald trump would not just disappear. mcconnell has already had to announce his retirement as republican senatet leader. he's had to endure three years of trump mocking him in public and launching racist attacks against his wife, but still mitch mcconnell crouches in fear of trump, refusing to even speak his name. here he was in an interview this

week with a local radio personality in his home state of kentucky. >> do you have any contact at all with donald trump, the presumptive nominee for the republican -- >> i oh, i've got my hands full dealing with the senate. you guys don't talk? eventually there's going to have to be a come to jesus. >> i spent my time on the senate. >>n okay. no, no texts, no nothing? >> i thought we were going to talk about the new basketball coach. >> we are. >> i thought we were going to talk about the new basketball coach. if you are wondering how donald trump could go from stoking to an insurrection to once again being the republican party nominee for president this is how. thees republican party on whole has abandoned their own responsibility here. they declare their blind loyalty to trump or say nothing at all. in a new piece out today atlantic's editor-in-chief describes why he believes the

people most responsible for his continued viability are the republican senators who voted to acquit him on january 6th. in particular the republicans who knew better but were too afraid to say so. goldberg recalls an interview he did, former senator robert portman who he interviewed on stage in 2022. i do want to ask you directly, i said, given what you know now about what happened on january 6th do you regret your vote to acquit impeachment? portman immediately expressed his unhappiness. you have just surprised me, he said, complaining i hadn't told him beforehand i would ask him aboutbe trump. i eventually pivoted the topic to bridges in ohio, but portman remained upset rushing offstage to confront the leaders of the festival who tried to placate him. initially iac found his defensi behavior odd. but i surmiz mooed from subsequent conversations with

theue republican senate he like others felt aat degree of shame about his continued excuse making for the authoritarian hijacker of hisut beloved party. joining me now is jeffrey goldberg, eldter in chief of the atlantic just awarded the national magazine award for general excellence for the third year running by the american society of magazine editors, which is an amazing thing. and as someone who once was very proud to call themselves an atlantic writer, i am -- you're the best. >> and in the future. the future is bright for magazines. >> it is. it's bright for the atlantic. and i've got to say part of the reason you're getting these awards is you haveth writing an analysis and astute observation like we just read in ellipsis form on this program. >> thank you for having me. >> and thanks for coming to the program. >> so far it's gone great for me. >> i do -- it is never not important to talk about how we

got to this place. >> true. >> and i thought your recollection of your time on stage with portman was so revealing. and i wonder as someone who's kind of in ret row spect, in hindsight sort of evaluated the man's sort of psychology in that moment, whether you think republicans like mcconnell and portman have any kind of internal monologue with it themselves, whether there's any sense that the shame they're feeling deserves more than just burying the truth, and whether there needs to be more public contrition. >> to borrow the very dark russian expression all souls are a darkpr forest. we don't know what's going on in mitch mcconnell's mind. and he's a harder target. first of all, people can convince themselves of anything. this is not based on my armchair

psycho analysis. this is base on talking to people in the senate who including some of those who voted to -- to convict. there were six republicans, seven republicans who voted to convict, and they're all friends together, everybody in the caucus. so they know who came up to them privately and said, ah, man, i wish i could do that and do what you did. and some of them report conversations like,em well, you could have and they said, no, i couldn't have and explain whatever it is that physical fear, fear for their families, fear for their careers. people who are honest say, look, i come from "x" state, and if i come out and vote to convict this guy for fomenting the insurrection, i'm going to lose my job, and you're just going to get another trumpy -- >> get the qanon shaman. >> you're going to get the shaman, which, you know, is a reasonable observation, but it's not -- it's not convincing.

>> well, yeah. and i just wonder, you know, maybe they think they're propping uphi the shreds of the republican party. but what does that mean? immigration deals that were basically republican gimmes, funding for youcrine that would have been no thought required as aug republican policy, they're t getting anything from it other than staying in office to do what? >> yeah, but don't undervalue staying in office. don't undervalue employment and relevance. we've talked about this before. lindsey graham is very honest about whihe switched teams, from team mccain to team trump. john mccain died and he lost his patron, and lindsey graham told me, told other people he wants to be relevant, he wants to be in the game. i was with lindsey graham once when president trump called, and he held up the phone and said

look who's calling. >> it's a parlor trick. >> that's important to these guys. and so, like, we can't -- look, we can judge it, but we can't undervalue it as --ca some of tm are genuinely concerned. they have young kids, and they understand how -- how threatening some of the stuff can be in the atmosphere, you know, from hard core trump supporters. and i have a lot of sympathy for that, but on the other hand you're elected to lead. right, that's the job is to follow your conscience and follow the law and support and uphold the constitution. yeah, and also by keeping trump in office, they're increasing the likelihood that the threats will be part of the culture of politics in america. >> also they're increasingly the likelihood they'll eventually lose anyway or -- portman retired. don't forget he left. and one can surmise he left because he knows what's happening in the party, and he didn't want to deal with a trump

challenger and all the rest. >> i want to ask ability that because we can point to on a single hand the number of republicans who served in elected office or are on their way out mitt romney among them, liz cheney among them who have come t out and been very forcefully critical of donald trump, right? why has that number not been higher? there have been aen lot of republican retirements. there are a lot of republicans that know better and have said, you know what, i'm tapping out, i'm done here. why aren't they trying to save their own party? >> i think you're dealing the nature of complicity. we had a great piece a couple years ago who's an expert on soviet complicity and authoritarian complicity, and she makes the point, and i hadn't really thought this through the way she thought it through that complicity is the norm. that's t normal behavior. being a dissident, being liz cheney, that's not normal. we all think in our best moments we're going to be the brave

truth teller. for mitt romney risk eating alone in the senate dining room because no oneat wants to sit wh you anymore or risk something far more dangerous. the truth is most humans are weak oros have long moments of weakness and they want to fit in and they want to get along and do all these things perfectly understandeble. we think of eccomplicity as thi terrible thing and rare, but it's not. >> i think anne applebalm has written so brilliantly how we're on the precipice ourselves. we're not talking about every day americans. we're not people who wanted to bepe in advertising or plumbingr whatever. we're talking about people wh wanted to be in government and understood a certain set of principles. >> that's my point. there are 43 republicans who voted against conviction, right?

if ten more had joined their republican colleagues, mitt romney among them and the democrats, donald trump would not be able to run for office right now. they had this moment. and i end the piece by saying, look, i believe if the country goes a certain way, if history goes a certain way, we'll be raising statues to mitt romney and people like rob portman wilo be lucky they're forgotten because that's exactly your point. you're not a plumber, you're not inmb advertising. you took an oath to uphold the constitution, and you were there when the capitol was invaded. >> it is as many things you write are very, very smart and very essential in these times. >> thank you. >> and just i love the atlantic forever for the service you do not just for us as readers but for us as a democracy, see keep it up boss. >> thank you. >> it's good to see you, jeffre, goldberg at the atlantic. stillrg to come tonight dond trump's new lifeline is raising a lot offe questions.

we'll look at some explosive new reporting around its origin story. but first special counsel jack smith is signaling his patience with slow walking judge aileen cannon may soon be at an end. that is next. n be at an end that is next we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything

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very, very late last night special counsel jack smith filed a scathing reluke of judge aileen cannon, the trump appointed federal judge in florida overseeing the former president's criminal prosecution over classified documents. in a filing smith excoriated cannon for entertaining a totallyimatorless claim, one that could lead to either directly a dismissal of the case or acquittal for trump. smith's frustration so palpable he suggested he'll appeal to a higher court on the matter

whenever judge cannon actually makes a higher decision, which could take a while. since judge cannon has filed this case she's amassed a pile of motions all of which he's yet to rule on. more than two months ago on january 16th trump's lawyers asked cannon to hand over additional materials they believe would demonstrate the prosecution's ties to the intelligence community. judge cannon has yet to rule on that. on february 8th, that's also nearly two months ago, jack smith's team begged judge cannon to reconsider her decision to release un-redacted filings to the public, ones that could reveal the names of potential prosecution witnesses. judge cannon has yet to rule on that. nearly six weeks ago on february 22nd trump's lawyers filed four separate motions to dismiss the case altogether on a variety of grounds. though she expressed doubts about some of trump's arguments, again, nearly six weeks ago, cannon has only ruled on one of

them. and then there is the trial date. 32 days and counting since cannon held a hearing about setting a new date for the trial. judge cannon has yet to make that very crucial decision upon which a lot of other things depend. joining me now is mary mccord, former senior justice department official and co-host of the prosecuting donald trump podcast. mary, thank you for helping me understand what can only be termed in layman's terms, of course, insanity that is unfolding down in florida. i mean judge cannon's inbox must be like piled sky high with things to do, and i'm just wondering how unusual it is for a judge to "a," entertain some of these crazy motions, and then, "b," to take so long to decide them. >> so, i mean a judge has to technically entertain any motion filed, but i think what you're getting at is could some of these be dismissed sort of pretty rapidly, right?

many are not really very serious. they don't need to have an oral argument. they can be decided on the papers, and there's several of those that i think she should have decided by now. you have to wonder a little bit if it's this whole question that caused her to order the parties to submit these proposed jury instructions that jack smith and donald trump submitted last night. you have to wonder the issue that caused her to issue that order is the reason why she's not ruled on other motions. and what i mean by that as both jack smith and donald trump say in their response that a president's decision when they leave the white house to take papers with them is designated under the presidential records act, her scenario "b" starts

with that legal premise, both of the parties respond that's essentially directing a verdict for donald trump. that would essentially be saying so long as donald trump knew he was taking records, he necessarily made them personal, they're not then subject to him being criminally prosecuted because that means he has authorized use. i wonder if in some way she's thinking let me resolve that first because maybe that goes away. donald trump is actually arguing this very instruction, this very important exercise you made us do shows you why you should dismiss this case because for one thing vagueness for prosecution, all these things but because there's simply not evidence he had unauthorized use. i'm a little worried about the fact she's sitting on the other motions, but that's why it's so important jack smith has pretty

much promised he'll appeal tis. you need a rule now because we have to have the opportunity before a trial start and jeopardy attaches, and also saying if you don't we'll take it up on mandamus once the trial starts. >> in essence it sounds like what you're saying is judge cannon is entertaining these novel ideas because she may want an excuse to dismiss the case and be done with the whole thing. >> that wouldn't surprise me. >> if that is in fact true and jack smith understands that, what else does he need before he goes to the u.s. circuit court of appeals and get a new judgment on this case. "the new york times" points out she's been on a holding pattern on so much of this stuff, he can't appeal anything. he's waiting for her to make a bad call effectively so he can go to the higher powers and say we've got to get a new judge.

do you think that's what's happening here? >> yes. and i think that's the only reason to not undercut the argument i just made, maybe she can get rid of it. i don't think she wants to get rid of it right now because she will be appealed. i think she wants to delay everything and get rid of it potentially after the trial actually starts, where the government's only option on a jury instruction tlf a motion to acquittal after the presentation of evidence that would not be appealable. even at trial he needs her to say these are the jury instructions i'm going to give. they're so wrong, so erroneous, he could take it up on a petition of mandamus, which is an appeal like we need a reversal immediately. i think you're right. even when she denied the motion to dismiss on vagueness grounds

she said it's without prejudice to renew it again at some future time, which is exactly why you see donald trump in his response last night renewing that motion. and we'll see him doing that again at trial if it gets to trial. jack smith is kind of between a rock and a hard place where he doesn't have anything yet he can appeal and seek mandamus on other than potentially arguing she's not ruling on thing she needs to rule on, i i think we'll see that if she continues to refuse to rule on this. >> her inaction on this in and of itself may be cause for a writ of mandamus, something i didn't think we would say with such frequency on cable television, but here we are in donald trump's legal america. mary mccord, thank you for joining us. thanks for your expertise tonight. more ahead including a conservative group working to blur the separation between church and state in public schools across the country. but first who helped trump's

social media company stay afloat after investigators put lucrative planned mergers on pause. a stunning result coming up next. pause. a stunning result coming up next hi, i'm chris and i lost 57 pounds on golo. golo isn't complicated. i don't have to follow a restrictive diet, and i don't have to spend a lot of time making meals. using golo was truly transformative. it was easy, and inexpensive.

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naked.com, stripchat.com, and donald trump? well, according to new reporting out of the guardian, they all got money from the same small bank in the kriblian. i should note nbc news has not independently confirmed this reporting, and trump media's response to this reporting and broadly contest without containing specifics. in 2022 trump mead yush the parent company of trump's truth social received a total of $8 million in loans from a company called es family trust. and es trust is actually just a shell company created by the co-owner of a bank in the caribbean known as paxum. it's not only a bank known for its work with the online porn industry, it's not even properly licensed to make loans in the united states. and the russian american businessman who allegedly arranged that loan is also allegedly under scrutiny in a federal insider trading and money laundering investigation.

and the reason trump's media company needed that $8 million in the first place despite trump's claims about being flush with cash, the reason the company needed that cash so quickly was because in 2021 the company had planned to merge with another big company for a big cash infusion, but that merger was held up by the sec because even that deal seemed shady. and it turns out the sec was right to be suspicious. today two of the early investors in the company that trump media tried to merge with in 2021 pleaded guilty to securities fraud. or in layman's terms, insider trading that netted them tens of millions of dollars. we are going to get some very expert help with all the specifics here in just a moment, but let's just zoom out for a second. truth social is largely seen as donald trump's biggest financial lifeline. last week trump's net worth shot up by more than $4 billion because of his stock in the company, $4 billion because

investors believe trump's media company is a good investment, a media company we now know was in the red to the tune of $58 million last year. so shady loans, insider trading, and a company that is hemorrhaging cash and is somehow trump's big financial lifeline. what is actually happening here? joining me now is drew harwell, technology reporter at "the washington post" uncovering all this funny money business around trump media and truth social for years now. drew, thanks for being with me tonight. i think given trump's claims publicly how wealthy he is, why is it a media company affiliated with trump would be so cash strapped today the tune of $8 million, they would end up involving a small caribbean bank in the year 2021? >> yeah, so remember back to 2021 trump is the king of debt and he needed money badly for this company. you know, he was not able to get

loans from traditional banks who had seen, you know, years of bankruptcies and failures on that end. january 6th had just happened a couple months prior, and so the company was really struggling. they were trapped in this mired merger process. they had no idea when it was going to un lock the money they needed. and, you know, suddenly here this money appeared, and i remember talking to a whistle-blower from the company who remembered being off put by having this $8 million show up in their accounts name today the stanley trust no one had ever heard of, connected to people that were total strangers to the company. so it felt very odd this money just sort of happened to come outright when they needed it. >> you're talking about the people that were sort of involved in this loan. one of them co-owned the bank and arranged according to the guardian at least the loan. what can you tell us about him and his background?

>> yeah, so he was born in st. petersburg, russia. he's the nephew of a very high ranking or russian government official for many years, alexander smirnoff. and we can see he was involve in this bank. this is a bank who deal with traditional banks people typically don't deal with. and paxum bank has made clear they're very proud to have them as customers, but it's not a typical kind of company that would work with trump or even a trump media-like company. when he was running maxum bank, you could see some of these wire transfer documents i have seen and i think the guardians have seen as well that showed the $2 million that come from the esfamily trust. for a while we didn't know the

connection between esfamily trust and paxum bank which was facilitating this loan out of nowhere except the one name on the trust was a paxum employee. now we know from this further reporting that he was very involved, and it appears that he could access the account right around that time. and so it just raises questions of why this person who, you know, he lives in miami beach, owns very nice real estate in one of the priciest zip codes in america, why he was getting involved in this business deal out of nowhere. >> why would a wealthy businessman with ties to russia want to do business with donald trump? i'm going to let that hang there. the two brothers who pleaded guilty today can you talk about who they are and how they fit into the broader picture of questionable financial dealings? >> yeah, so michael and gerald

schwartzman, schwartzman owns a furniture store in miami. michael schwartzman is his brother and runs a venture capital firm that like the paxum bank would deal with marijuana dispensaries if that surprises you by doing these cashless atms. they dealt with gray market money quite often and both lived in the miami area. and both learned about from patrick orlando which is the company that ended up merging to learn this deal was coming. and they and the schwartzman brothers all made exceptionally timed bets based off this insider trading and insider knowledge and made tens of millions of dollars from it, and that's according to the fbi. and so the schwartzman brothers after they made these tens of

millions, michael schwartzman also tried to hide some of this money according to the feds, tried to buy a yacht with it, tried to wash it through all these swiss bank accounts. their change of plea this week to plead guilty was actually very interesting because it showed that the fbi was onto something. he's never been charged even though in the documents it shows he made just as much in profits as the brothers have. and so there's been kind of an open question of what's going on there, but those men were friends. michael schwartzman would talk about, you know, knowing a guy, a russian guy who had a bank in dominica, who washed money for russian guys and ukrainians. and the feds would look at this as a money laundering case. >> wow, there is certainly a lot more reporting to be done, a lot of questions that need to be answered. drew harwell, thank you for your great report on this thus far.

we look forward to talking to you again sometime soon. still ahead tonight the church of trump. how conservatives are injecting christianity into public spaces in order to win at the ballot box. one group has now turned to prosthetizing to kids in skills. that is next. thetizing to kids . that is next

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what the hell was biden thinking when he declared easter

sunday to be trans visibility day? such total disrespect to christians, and november 5th is going to be called something else. you know what it's going to be called? christian visibility day. when christians turn out in numbers that nobody has ever seen before. >> before polls closed in wisconsin's republican primary election yesterday, donald trump stood in a room packed with supporters and promised them retribution. now, he has done this a lot, but this time it wasn't retribution for hez four criminal indictments. it wasn't for the half a billion dollars he owes in civil penalties, it wasn't for what he calls political persecution. this time trump suggested that president biden's recognition of trans visibility day on easter weekend amounted to a persecution of christians and promised they would see retribution on election day.

christian visibility day was trump's poll closing message in green bay, and surprising exactly no one, the presumptive republican nominee then won that primary by a landslide. we don't know how much the message of christian persecution influenced trump's victory there, but we do know trump has managed to turn his christian followers into politically pious voters, members of the church of trump, and those voters are motivated by issues like abortion to put their evangelical hero back in the white house. but that effort has been frustrated by the reality that even in red states like ohio efforts to enshrine the right to abortion into state constitutions have been wildly and consistently successful largely because of the densely populated deep blue cities in those states. and so turning those cities less blue, maybe even purplish is now a priority. cities like columbus, ohio, where former ohio state buckeyes defensive lineman joel penten

lives. in 2018 he launched an off-line bible studies to campus students during the school day. it is raising serious questions about the separation of church and state. penten has expanded his mission to put god back in the public school day, and he credits his newfound motivation to ohio's victorious abortion ballot measure. >> when i see what just happened in my state with the new amendment for ohio for abortion, is not only incredibly sad, it's also incredibly motivating. it makes us realize life wise, wow, our mission is all the more important. what other hope do we have but to inject the word of god into the hearts of the next generation. we see the fruit of taking it out of the generations. we've got to get it back to the next generation.

>> his lifeline academy is currently influencing theeen minds of kids in progressive schools. he wants it to reach every public school in america, which means that blue islands, cities like tampa and philadelphia, las vegas and phoenix and atlanta, those blue islands in red states and swing states like florida and pennsylvania, nevada, arizona, and georgia, they could be swayed by life wise. and that -- that really could determine what happens at the ballot box. nbc news correspondent antonia hilton went to columbus, ohio, to learn more. >> reporter: as classmates head to the library this group of white hall students in the district of ohio put on matching shirts, board a bus and head half a mile down the road to church. there elementary students like emmanuel and savannah brady pray and study scripture. this is life wise academy, a

non-profit bringing the bible back into the public school day. >> really helps you learn about jesus and about what happened in the past. >> how popular would you say it is at school? >> mainly just the whole class over at lifeline. >> reporter: ohio mom sarah says lifeline does exert pressure. she's a christian in the school. she won't let them take part though. >> it's all above board until it's not. no staff person does anything until they day. >> reporter: chapman promised ice cream merts. this note her child receive from a classmate on life wise letterhead prewritten to say my favorite part of class is -- the classmate writing everything and inviting the child to join lifewise. lifewise told nbc news like many youth groups they offer incentive for students and families to learn more and that they are no different from other organizations that advocate for the policies they believe in.

what do you think lifewise is trying to do? >> influence, slant, if you will, public schools. >> after the break i'll talk to antonia about what lifewise has accomplished so far and what it is planning next. s accomplished so far and what it is planning next ” “it's the best place to get last-minute deals on tickets.” “i guess i'm just a better fan than you.“ "(crowd cheering) i've got to get the gametime app.” “download the gametime app to get great deals on last-minute tickets.”

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do you think church has a place in school? >> yeah, i mean we're trying to bring churches back to schools for a long time. >> some of these sessions take place when library periods would be happening in school. are you worried about your kids missing out on that experience? >> not at all. there's 39 books in the old testament and 37 book in the new testament. >> lifewise academy, an ohio-based christian non-profit, found a legal way to offer bible lessons to thousands of school children during the school day. their initial goal was to serve 25 schools by 2025. but by the start of this year they had already setup chapters in more than 300 schools in a dozen states teaching the gospel

to 35,000 public school students during school hours on a weekly basis. joining me now is antonia hilton, nbc news correspondent. antonia, every time you visit here, i get a distressing picture of what's happening elsewhere in the country, and this is not -- >> i'm sorry to stress you out. >> no, it's really important and essential reporting. i wonder first of all how is it for people who are a little bit unclear as to how this arrangement works, when and how are these kids being taken out of public school and being sent to bible study, effectively? >>iacy, i'm sure people want to know, too, wait, one more time how is this legal? lifewise has the support, frankly, of a number of supreme court rulings, and they're able to make this work through three thing. it has to be optional, so kids have to opt in. you can't have a school district forcing anyone to be in lifewise. it can't be on the school

property. usually life. wise sets up at a church close by. one we went to was about a half a mile ride. it's like nothing. and then it can't take place when it would be a math or science class, something seen as essential. kids are coming out of recess or in the case of students you saw there, they're leaving their library periods. in that district about 50% of it kids are leaving. >> wow. >> so your seeing a large portion of the classmates or friends you might be with in that section leave at that time. and it does have an impact at least visually on the school environment. >> well, and they're all wearing their red shirts and their popcorn parties lifewise is having and there are these notes kids pass each out about how great and how fun lifewise is. i wonder if this isn't running afoul of certain first amendment stuff, whether or not there's kind of a gray area here that may be further explored by people who find this questionable in terms of -- >> i talked all about the gray area with the administrator at the school district to say how

are you walking this tightrope? are you worried about lawsuits, is this stress for you? he acknowledged they're walking a fine line here. schools can't encourage or establish religion, but they also can't stop kids from expressing their faith. so with these instruction policies, these released timed religious instruction policies, which is what you see in the districts here and states like hi have allowed their school tuesday do this, it means once those policies in place school districts have to put their hands up and allow programs like lifewise, and other groups can do this, too. it seems lifewise seems to have figured out -- >> the franchise model. >> but they are supposed to without encouraging or discouraging it allow the kids to go and then come back. the trouble comes when we talk to people in these communities, parents, and observers who are getting concerned about lifewise. they tell us that all sounds fine, but in practice it's messier than they that. they have seen administrators hand out paperwork and flyers

about lifewise. in one school district in ohio, a tutor gave a hindu student information about lifewise, and that's interpreted by a lot of parents even christian parents -- i mean with kids who go to sunday school and are part of this community, they are getting uncomfortable and they feel like there's this encroachment happening, that even if it all looks clean on paper, isn't how it funks on the ground. >> we have that sound from the founder saying he got particularly motivated by ohio's, you know, enshrining of abortion rights. and there is -- politics is a part of this. right, it's not just to spread the gospel. there is an end to this. there is a goal here at the end of the day. >> another blurry line because lifewise itself is not a political organization. these are elementary school students. in my observations i haven't seen them talk about politics or tell those kids to vote a particular way, of course. but when you see who they associate with, you do start to

raise questions, right? so lifewise last summer had a teacher summit, and patriot mobile, a group that many of your viewers would be familiar with because we talked about it a few time, they are an openly far-right christian organization that supported and funded this event. and you see joel penton, the founder, go on a program. and it's -- you know, you start to see that political association. >> see the sort of roots or maybe the treetops where this is all going or coming from. antonia, amazing reporting. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. if they were smart they'd take january 6th and go hard at it, and they would say he wants to pardon these people who attacked our capitol. there were people some of them had automatic weapons at a hotel in virginia hoping to be able to be called up.