tonight on all in. >> what donald trump is is asking cannon to do is render the presidential records acts meaningless. >> tonight, what it all means for the classified documents case in florida. as trump suffered a setback on

his claim of broad immunity in manhattan. >> i did everything right and they indicted me. >> when the stark difference between biden and trump on appealing to voters. tensions rising between the u.s. and israel after the attack that killed seven aid worker ins gaza. >> it was really a direct attack on that clearly marked vehicle. >> when all in starts right now. good evening, i'm chris hayes. in new york, the judge denied the ex-president's latest bid.

of claiming presidential immunity. the trial is now set to begin in less than two weeks. it really looks like it will happen on april 15th. meanwhile, the case about trump's reckless mishandling of classified documents and the obstruction of justice. well that is dragging thanks to judge aileen cannon. she was 39 years old when she got the position. and she was appointed that position in the lame duck session by the accused document mishandler in this case. donald trump. and this situation may now be coming to a head. in a striking new filing. special council jack smith hinted that he may ask a higher court. the court of appeals above judge cannon to correct her because of how badly she has mishandled the case. this has been building for a long time. now remember, we first met

aileen cannon back in 2022 in the wake of the fbi's first search of trump's home in mar-a- lago and judge cannon ended up issuing a ruling that was wildly favorable to donald trump. she stopped the process of the government going through the search record and appointed a special master to review the documents which blocked the investigation. people were taken aback by this ruling. experts called it corrupt and lawless. then an appeals court quickly reversed it including trump appointed judges above her. as trump would have it, aileen cannon was randomly assigned to the actual criminal case once the charges were brought in june of last year and in every turn since then, she has appeared to be in over her head. today, we may finally reach the breaking point that could bring

about the end of the aileen cannon experiment. it could all come tumbling down because of donald trump's ludicrous argument that the highly classified documents found in his personal possession are actually his to do with as he pleases. that is not what the law says. the thing you have to understand is the current law of presidential records goes back to the 1970s . this is not ancient history. when richard nixon resigned in the wake of the watergate scandal. because he was both corrupt and green, nixon wanted to take documents and the tapes with him home to florida so he could use them for his own personal benefit. i mean, the records were highly valuable. they could be sold for profit or donated for huge tax write- offs. at one point, there was a possibility the tapes would be

burned onto records for sale. >> it is thought the first records on the market will sell a million copies or more. and soon after, some music producer will set him to music and try to get him played on the radio. most likely the rock station since this material might not qualify as classical. meanwhile, nixon might turn on the radio and found he made the top 40. >> like the trump high top sneakers 50 years ahead of its time. so nixon's successor signed the presidential records and materials preservation act. >> white house sources said today that president ford will sign a bill passed by the congress giving custody of the nixon tapes and papers to the

federal government. the bill nullifies an agreement which would give the former president possession of the tapes and documents. >> the fight over nixon's records, what he called his records, went on for decades and only concluded with a settlement but it only took a few years for legislation to come together. afterwards, the established rules that would guarantee all official records. we never want this nixon thing to happen again. we don't want people absconding from the white house with records brimming out of their pockets so we will pass the presidential records act. and the presidential records act established that presidential records are the property of us the american people. not the individual in the white house. quote. the united states shall reserve

and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of presidential records. these are classified documents. not just something he doodled. but donald trump has been argue consistently that the presidential records act we just gave you the history of actually means the exact of it is of what it says. that the official records from his presidency are his private property to take. >> i can't imagine you ever saying bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white housement i would like to look at them. did you do that? >> i don't have the right to. >> i don't think you would do it. >> i don't have a lot of time. but i would have the right to do that. i would do that. >> let me move on. >> this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff.

do you know they ended up paying richard nixon $18 million for what he had. i have the right to take stuff. i have the right to look at stuff. >> no. no, you don't. no, that is the opposite. let's do this again. they paid him $18 million because the presidential records act had never been passed. they passed and signed the act which says literally the opposite. okay? it is like saying the brady bill gave every american a handgun. now donald trump can say whatever he wants but in a legal setting, this argument should get laughed out of court. trump's lawyers have made this claim in court to judge cannon that the presidential records act gives him the authority to decide. whether he can wave his hand

over a document and go that's personal. jack smith said that is ludicrous, calling it a fundamentally flawed legal premise. black and white issue. what did judge cannon do? well, get this. her decision was to tell both sides to write instructions for the jury based on their interpretation of the law. the idea is they would draft them with the current interpretation of the law and donald trump's team would instruct them in the opposite? and judge cannon would tell them which one to use? cannon's order that they both go and draft their own jury instructions was met with near universal condemnation. not the first time this

happened to her. from judges and lawyers and the prosecutors in jack myth's office. now smith is take ago clear stance. essentially telling judge cannon if she indulges this wildly lawless argument that donald trump can take whatever he wants because the presidential record acts says so, an argument that he might seek judge cannon's removal which would be an extraordinary step. it means this case against donald trump is coming to a head in a really explosive way. harry it willman is a former u.s. attorney for the western district of o columbia. request christine greenberg is with the criminal division of the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. and they both join me now. harry. let me start on you. what is the purpose of this filing that jack smith filed in

response to judge cannon? >> for starters. it is what you say. it is ludicrous and has no basis in facts. but there is an extra point step here that makes this aggress i. what has been vexing about cannon is she has again and again just refused to rule, period. and this kind of academic exercise, let's talk about jury instructions, not only avoids a ruling but even suggests she might do this kind of mischief at trial after which double jeopardy would prevent a retrial. so what smith says is everything but one step more. he is saying you have to decide this, judge, cannon and you have to decide it in plenty of time for us to appeal. and if you don't, if you continue to dither, then we are

going to mandamus act. if you continue to not give it to us. we are going to mandamus that very point. as you heard railroad , you have a circuit pretty well primed so they are calling out not just the law, but her whole cat and mouse game of not issuing decisions. >> the way you said it in the column. judge cannon's alice in wonderland antics seem to be designed to avoid issuing a ruling. it could be a fatal blow to smith's case. once the jury is selected even a ridiculous order can bring it to a hard stop. it would be the judicial equipment of a perfect crime.

some of this stuff is complicated and i will not pretend i know it really well. but the basics seem almost bewilderingly clear. in so far as the presidential record act can obviously not mean what his lawyers are saying it means and indulging it seems ludicrous. >> it does. it seems as though the presidential record act in this context, it is like if you were taking a law school exam. this would be what we call a red herring. it is completely irrelevant and something that trump's defense is trying to use to divert from the main issue on whether or not he violated the espionage act. not only is she failing that law school exam by encaging in this, but to continue with the

analogy, she won't even hand him the exam to get graded. she keeps holding back reserving decision and having this weird jury instruction where it is almost choose your own adventure. where the jury decides if they are personal records or donald trump decided. either way. under either scenario, he is somehow entitled to have kept them which is wrong under the law. what jack smith is saying is it is time. you have to make a decision. you need to do it promptly. so if you get it this wrong again, we need to take this up to the 11th circuit. >> the interpretation is ludicrous and immaterial to law. this is national defense information plain as daytime and you had it. so there you go. and we asked for it and you didn't give it to us.

so let's go to the new york case. judge merchan doing the opposite of judge cannon in this sense. which is realing on this sort of immunity hail mary. he said he waited too long. all of that seems to mean we are on for april 15th as of now. is that your understanding here? >> yeah, exactly right. and, it is more than that. remember, this is what he was able to leverage in other settings to get a delay. well, merchan said i will not entertain it. you are late. you are so date, i doubt this is very dramatic language in the order. i doubt the sincerity and purpose of what you are doing. you have just basically waited to the last minute to try to delay things. uh-uh. i will not even consider it.

i don't think he has cards left to play. we are as you said, 12 days away from picking a jury. in the first ever criminal trial of a former president. >> christy is that your read as well? >> i agree with harry. looking at the opinion, we have seeing the judge get stronger in his language with each oneover these frivolous motions. there were no discovery violations than we had the motion for recusal which again had already been brought in august of 2023. they had nothing new to say, but brought it up again. now we are seeing for presidential immunity, which is completely untimely. the court says this tests the

court's credibility here. he is not going entertain it any more. >> thank you both. appreciate it. >> thanks. coming up, president biden makes the policy case for reelection as donald trump appeals to the worst instincts of his base. where the campaigns stand next. . where the campaigns stand next.

he clearly thinks this is the key to a victorious campaign. on tuesday, at an unnerving michigan rally, he whipped up his ranks. here is some of what he said about immigrants. >> the democrats say please don't call them animals. i said no, they are not humans. they are not humans. they're animals. nancy pelosi said please don't

use the word animal, sir talking about these people. i said i'll use the word animal because that's what they are. >> pelosi was right. calling people animals is dehumanizing and dangerous. but that is what racists do. they say things like that. today, president biden held a white house press conference. very different kind of image there with senator bernie sanders and them touting their efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs. biden's guiding theory to beating trump in 2020 and again now is that the american people are better than trump. they are more decent than he is. they care about actual policies and results. but it is an open question if it will work. ron, do you agree with that as the fundamental sort of theory of the case that the president

has about reelection? >> i think it is pretty simple. to make the country a better place. and calling migrants who come to this country and work hard. and pay taxes. calling them animals is just disgraceful. the president thinks he will address donald trump. senator sanders is a good example. there is still a big agenda left to be done. working together, president biden with senator sanders got a bill passed that allows medicare to negotiate the price of prescription drugs that will save the government and our senior citizens a lot of money. now the president wants that true for everyone in the country. to bring down the cost of prescription drugs. that is a real result that matters to people's lives. prices are too high. people need more money in their pockets so both confronting president trump on his

outrageous conduct and chaos. having an agenda for what he want to do another four years is the key thing to getting president biden elected. >> there is something we talked about a lot on this program. is some seeming disconnect. i think it has narrowed a bit. as inflation has come down. as the parts of the economy that really are booming are more salient to people than those prices were in summer of 2022. so they haven't necessarily translated to a bump in approval rating. the fundamentals still seem a little disconnected. i wonder if you as a person who worked for this president for many years, was chief a staff when a lot of this legislation was passed. when the economic team put together how to deal with this crisis. how you think of that of what

seems to be the disconnect till? >> people live their lives and they want to know how it affects them at their kitchen table and family budget. prices are still high. price of gasoline is still high. other prices are still high. and people feel that pinch and the wages have gone up. people feel pinched in their pocketbooks so i think, president need to make more progress on that. that was part of what he was talking about with prescription drugs which is a key pain point for many families and he will continue to fight to bring down prices on key things that matter to families and he needings to make more progress. so i'm glad there are jobs but people want to see their own personal pocketbook is better off. that is what biden is delivering. i think it is a clear choice on the question of democracy. on the question of unifying the

country. >> this is something i have said on the show, trump receding from constant public view has helped him a bit. it is almost impossible to keep in mind just how abhorrent and weird and repellant his behavior and rhetoric is. and him taking center stage would remind people of that. i wonder if you share that view? >> i do. the ability many republicans had until a few weeks ago, holing onto the myth that nikki haley would be their nominee. so i think now there is no fantasy left. donald trump is the nominee of the republican party. it's his party. he will be their choice. and this is the choice. and trump is now visible again and public again. i think that is going to hurt donald trump help the biden

campaign so i like the choice as we head into the summer season. that there is no doubt about it, this is the choice. biden or trump. i think that frame helps the biden campaign. >> final question for you on immigration. do you think there has been a sufficient rebuttal? there is a bipartisan border bill. the president endorsed it. donald trump scuttled it for the explicit purpose of producing a prolonged crisis he could point to for political game. but do you think the argument is being met sufficiently, rhetorically, by the at and other democrats to make the affirmative case for why immigration overall is actually a net boon for this country. >> i think the president needs to continue to do what he is doing and use his limited pows if only won't act to secure the border. i think that's the right thing to do. as the campaign proceeds, we will have a discussion about

migration in our country and the contributions they make to our economy and generally, the inhumanity and what trump is saying about migrants. calling them animals. i think that will be part of the campaign as it goes on and that is a sharp countries. they are friendly people. they know them. they see them various work sites. and they don't think they are animals and don't want to hear them called animals. i think that will be part of the campaign, but the president needs to do his job to try to use his tools, to try to bring more order to the border and clean up the mess he was left by donald trump. >> all right, ron, who served as chief of star for president biden. thank you very much. >> thank you chris. still ahead, president biden condemns the killing aid workers in gaza. but will the policy reflect the

words? policy reflect the words?

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i know that everybody understand, it is food is a universal right. food should never be a weapon of war. and the air strikes i don't think were an unfortunate mistake. it was clearly an attack on

armed vehicles. everybody at the idf, and i know israelis. i have many friends that are israelis. and jewish. i know israelis there better. >> chef jose andres is calling for an independent investigation. after a set of three aid strikes killed seven world central kitchen aid workers to gaza. jeff andres spent the day speaking out the humanitarian aid. writing coat the israeli military needs to start the long journey to peace today. president biden said hi was outraged over the strike that killed the world central

kitchen workers. tomorrow, he and israeli fend dates he has no plans to stop mill aid. senator, good to have you. >> yeah, thanks for having me. >> i just want to read what you had to say. i think it was yesterday after the strike and why you felt the need to say these. i'm a friendover israel. i believe hamas should pay for crimes but israel needs to. why did you say that? >> i just think this is a dire moment. parts of gaza are already in famine. the white house believes the next few weeks, famine may be declared throughout gaza s thousand children have died.

this is a nightmare. it is hard to make the case that this campaign is ultimately making israel or the united states safer. we had testimony before the senate a few weeks ago from the director of national security intelligence. talking about in being a generational moment for global terrorism. that the threats to the united states and israel are increasen, not decreasing. so whether you care about the lives of those in gaza or the future security of israel and the united states. it doesn't appear an open ended conflict serves either interest. >> aaron david miller who has worked in u.s. diplomacy for decades and specifically on israel and palestine the conflict, had an interview with the new yorker and he had a phase that really stuck with

me. we describe u.s. policy as passive aggression. john kirby defends their actions from the podium. charlie talks about maying the package. every package of munitions and armaments are improved and sent to russia. people are having a hard time making sense of this policy and i wonder if you feel that way. >> well listen, there is a risk of overhyping the impact that u.s. policy has on benjamin netanyahu's decision making. he is in a fight for political survivor. and the fact of the matter is, he has a deep belief in the righteousness of this campaign even if the united states were to halt sales to israel. i'm not sure it would change

israeli strategy. it would not end the same. they don't reply on military support the same way kyiv does. every moment that this nightmare issue humanitarian condition continues inside gaza is a day that the united states is less safe because we bear global responsibility side by side for israel. for those of us that think until commitments can be made. the united states needs to stop sending military aid. it is not only because we hope it has some impact on decision making but also we think that actually helps insulate us from some of the blowback that is going to occur. >> i guess what i and you always say. you are a clear observer in presidential policy.

at each moment, there were plausible arguments. ladies and gentlemen well, if there is only one more. but if you added it all back and look back at the rear-view mirror, you think it probably shouldn't have been there 20 years. there is justification for why you would support the current trajectory because of the danger of hamas or our allyship to israel but you wonder about that aggregate. how long this lasts and what it looks is what i'm trying to saying this. >> i think the kind of mistakes they are making today might be more understandable. had we not have afghanistan and iraq. we were so blinded by our righteous furry at is a dam hotel that bubbled up on down. a strategy that was not

working. that ended up boosting recruitment for the taliban. so the fact that both israel and the united states know how this overreliance on military capabilities is part of what makes it so hard to continue to understand why israel doesn't learn from those mistakes. >> i do want to wish you good luck and to all members of your fine state. for the men's and women's uconn teams in the final four. very, very exciting. thanks. it will be amazing. i can't wait for it. >> yeah, page master doesn't get as much attention. but she is pretty special. >> she is unbelievable. unbelievable. i'm so psyched for that game. thank you. still to come, how donald trump and the republican party are banking on winning voters

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edition of are you better off than four years ago? feverly everynearly every candidate does it. >> over there at the view, woopi goldberg is having accusing you of having memory issues for admitting you were better off four years ago. >> we have evidence. the front page of the new york times. april 3, 2020. unrifled job losses. 6.6million apply for benefits. few unscathed by toll of virus across the city. that big map showed the florida of americans halted almost all travel. states like new york and michigan. the situation was bad and scary and it was getting worse and the president overseeing this

unspooling disaster was trying to sell a totally different reality in his daily 77-minute news conference. >> breaking news, more than a quarter million coronavirus cases ored in the u.s. in new york, the deadliest day so far. >> who dropped the ball? >> i always knew pandemics were one of the worst things that cop had. we have done a job like nobody has done a job. >> this is life or death. >> reporter: nurses saul it a daily suicide mission. but as of this mornings, people were very happy. >> we are afraid for our patients and families and our lives. >> do you think every state should be prepared for mail in vote something. >> noment because i think lot of people cheat. you just asked your question in a very nasty tone. let's go. >> plot president. >> the translator: i gave you a

perfect answer. you know it. >> it is hard. my brother, he died alone. >> hydroxychloroquine. i don't know. it is looking like it is having some good results. >> the mayor change in guidance. the cdc recommends all americans wear face coverings amed new concerns the virus can spread just by talk. >> this is toll tear. i won't be doing it. >> why won't you wear one yourself? >> i just don't want to. >> reporter: tonight, the economic crisis is spiraling. >> you try to make it sound so bad. you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> reporter: the devastating economic toll. the government estimates over 700,000 jobs lost in march. why the actual numbers are far worse. >> there are news reports you want to sign the checks going out in several months. is that right? >> the underlying unemployment rate is probably 10% if not

higher. >> this is bad. you will see some bad things, then good things. and it will not be too long. >> so, you tell me. you want to trade places with us four years ago? you want to go back there? are you better off son bet better off today? er off today?

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cannot overstate the fixation of the right wing media and donald trump on immigration. it is the issue they think will win them the election. and there are signs it is working. take a look at the polling at who voters say the is most

urgent siri. orange is the economy, purple immigration. green is preserving democracy. as recently as six months ago that was top of mind as the economy improved, look how the purple line shoots way up. that is because republicans stopped talking about it. trump doesn't try to hide the vile racism. >> joe biden's border blood bath. that's what it is. it ask a blood bath. they are not humans. they're animals. i said i'll use the word animal because that is what they are. legions and legions of biden migrants pouring in. it is really become ago third world country. the public schools are training with hundreds of new migrant students who don't speak a word of english. i will send joe biden's illegal aliens back home.

social security will buckle and collapse. >> grotesque. undocumented workers pay into the insurance system for medicare and social security. they don't get benefits themselves t. it is the opposite. they add money to medicare and medicaid and social security. now while i continue to have faith the ugliness of what trump is going is so on, i on about. i don't know for sure that is the case. why do you. what do you make of that chart we started out with? yechy which is an interesting political skeleton key. the republicans have moved from the economy's pie number one issue to immigration. >> what do i make of it?

exactly what you said. as may mentioned the economy less, there has to be something we can do to help the issue. for maga republicans, the fear of the bank is fearful. so, it will go in as you said all in on the question of immigrants. and i actually remain hopeful chris. because i think after for example what happened in baltimore, people are just going to be like oh man, they are telling us there are all these criminals. but actually, we seem them working when everybody else isn't. so just very simple quick data that anybody can get because it is federal. right? since 1993 to 2003. violent crime fell by 49% in

the united states. where is the crime crisis, chris? where is it? also, what we know is that the economy has grown the past 20 years steadily. according to the congressional budget office, they calculated that immigration will generate $7 trillion to boost the gdt over the next decade. this is not some radical leftist, these are facts and data, so the demagoguery. we have to match it with the facts. >> i totally agree with that. particularly on this. that making that affirmative argument that people coming here is an incredible net benefit to our society. in dollar terms. culturally. in terms of all kinds of things. i wand to ask you this question. i was talking to someone who is an immigration policy walker and he made it clear there is a

real structural difference for how people are coming to america. and, particularly, where they are coming from. it used to be really largely mexico. people with a lot of family here. they would work. the relative degree of socialization for some of the folks coming. they are desperate and scared that it makes it easier to marginalize and exclude. it makes it easier for the folks here saying no, that's not what. >> a lot of people still have contacts. i was on the border about two- and-a-half weeks ago. saw two guatemala men.

what used to help is when migrants got there, they would run away from the border patrol. that is where republicans get the idea they are here, gets in. chris, with my own eyes i saw them come in, start praying and wait for the border control to come get them. so the narrative is completely different. they are saying we are not a threat. we are giving ourselves over with our hands up. we are not a threat. we are telling you where weijia are going to be. but the point is this notion of they are different. many are coming from africa and pakistan and india. but, they are all here for the same reason. one, because international law affords them the right to come to the united states and ask

for asylum. and two, because, human migration is part of our history. so if all of that stuff that they say is true, the american economy would be tanking and you and i would be running in fear every single night because of an unleashed crime wave. not true. >> in fact, new york city which had the single biggest violent crime drop last year happened along with the migrant influx in the country. those are two things correlated if not caused. maria, thank you very much. >> thank you. goodnight because i'm right here with edward r. murro. here. wednesday night. alex wagner tonight begins good evening, alex. >> we cannot say it enough. the biden bloodbath does not exist. migrants are notdoot killing pe all over this country willy-nilly. crime rates are dropping in cities that have absorbed the most number of migrants. that is all happening. >> that's true. and thank you atin home for