this speech, specifically, was actually delivered to and for striking black sanitation workers. dr. king was advocating boycotts, standing up economically as a form of nonviolent resistance to racism and discrimination. he urged those workers to boycott racist brands and instead support black-owned businesses saying that while quote, individually we are poor when you compare us with white society in america, never stop and forget that collectively, that means all of us together, we are richer than all the nations in the world, with the exception of nine. that is power right there, if we know how to pull it. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on all in-- >> but donald trump is officially asking them to do is to render the residential records act meaningless. >> an outrageous move by judge cannon and a swift response

from jack smith. what it all means for the classified documents case in florida as trump suffers a setback on his claim of broad immunity in manhattan. >> i did everything right and they indicted me. the stark difference between biden and trump on appealing to voters. former white house chief of staff ronald klain joins me on that. tensions rise in israel after an attack that killed 78 workers in gaza. >> i don't think it was an unfortunate mistake. it was really a direct attack on a clearly marked vehicle. >> "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. we have news tonight on two of the criminal cases against donald trump. in new york a judge overseeing trump's hush money election interference trial just denied the warmer president's latest

bid to delay, based on his frankly bogus claim of presidential immunity for his hush money payments. that case is full steam ahead. the trial is set to begin in less than two weeks, april 15th. it really looks like it is going to happen. meanwhile, the case of trump's reckless mishandling of classified documents and obstruction of justice and trying to cover up that activity, that is still dragging , thanks almost exclusively to district court judge eileen cannon. that woman there. canon was 39 years old when she got the lifetime position she was appointed to, not particularly distinguished at the time. she was appointed that position after the election, by the accused document ms. handler in this case, donald trump. this situation may finally now be coming to a head. in a striking new finding, special counsel jack smith hinted that he may ask a higher court, the court of appeals about george cannon to correct her, because of how badly she

has mishandled the case. this is building for a long time. remember, we first met cannon back in 2022, in the wake of the fbi's first search of trump's home at mar-a-lago. judge cannon ended up issuing a ruling that was wildly favorable to donald trump. she stepped in and she stopped the process of the government going through the search records. instead, appointed a special master to review documents, which blocked the government's investigation. people were really taken aback by this ruling. experts blasted it, calling it corrupt and lawless. an appeals court quickly reversed it, including trump appointed judges above her, 3-0. then, as luck would have it, aileen cannon was randomly assigned to the actual criminal case once the charges were brought in june of last year. every turn since then, she has appeared to be in over her head, while also bending over backwards to rule in trump's

favor and slow walking any progress to the trial. today, we may have finally reached the breaking point that could bring about the end of the aileen experiment. it could all come tumbling down because of donald trump's ludicrous argument that the classified documents, the highly classified documents, the nation's secrets found in his personal possession are actually has to do with as he pleases. of course, that is not what the law says. the thing to understand here the current law around presidential records goes back to the 1970s. this is not ancient history. we do not have to investigate what the founders thought. when richard nixon resigned in the wake of the watergate scandal, because he was both corrupt and green, nixon wanted to take documents, and those infamous nixon tapes home with him to florida as his own personal possessions so he could use them for his own personal benefit. i mean, the records were highly valuable. they could be sold for profit or donated for huge

tax write offs. at one point, there was even the possibility that the tapes would be burned onto records for sale. >> we are told, there will be a rush to see who can get them out first since it is not the first records on the market will sell 1 million copies or more, and we might guess that soon after, some record producer will set the record-- richard nixon nixon conversations to music. then try to get them played on radio, most likely, the rock station, since this material may not qualify as classical. eventually, nixon might turn on the radio and find he has made the top 40. >> basically, the trump hightop sneakers 40 years ahead of is time, 50 years. a few months after his resignation, his successor, gerald ford, signed the first recognition and protecting those records, called the presidential recordings and materials preservation act. >> white house sources said

today that the president will have a bill by congress given custody of the nixon tapes and papers to the federal government. the bill nullifies an agreement between nixon and the ford administration, which would give the former president possession of the tapes and documents. >> again, that did not end things. the fight over nixon's records, what he called his records, actually the u.s.'s records, that went on for decades, the concluding with an $18 million settlement at the former president of estate in the year 2000. it only took a few years for legislation to come together afterwards that established the rules that would govern all future official records. we never want this nixon thing to happen again. we do not want people absconding from the white house with records brimming out of their pockets, so we are going to pass the presidential records act, which was signed into law by president jimmy carter in 1978. the presidential records act explicitly established the presidential records of the

property of us, the american people, not the individual in the white house. quote, the united states shall preserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of residential records. this is black letter law. extremely clear, extremely well established. the records we are talking about here are remember, classified documents. not like something he doodled or a painting as a gift for someone. but donald trump has been arguing, consistently, that the presidential records act, that we just gave you the history of, actually means the exact opposite of what it says. that the presidential race records act for his presidency are his private property to take . >> i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house. i would like to look at them. did you ever do that? >> i would have the right to do that. there is nothing wrong with it. i don't have a lot of time, but i would have the right to do

that weird i would do that. remember this, this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff. do you know i think they ended up paying richard nixon $18 million for what he had? they did the presidential records act. i have to the right to take stuff. >> no, you don't! that is the opposite. they paid him $80 million because the presidential records act did not apply at the time because it had not been passed. to make sure it never happened again, they passed the residential records act, which says literally the opposite. okay? as political science professor seth mask it put it, it is like saying the bill gave every american the handgun. donald trump can say whatever he wants in fox news areas, but in legal sediment, this argument should get laughed out of court. trump's lawyers actually made this claim in court to judge cannon that the presidential records act gives trump the

authority to decide whether a record is personal or presidential, that he could do this magical transubstantiation where he waves his hand over a document. that is personal. >> special counsel jack smith basically said, that is ludicrous, calling it fundamentally flawed legal premise. black and white issue, what did judge aileen cannon do? get this, because it is weird. her decision was to tell both sides, from's lawyers and smith, to write instructions to the jury, each based on their interpretation of the law. the idea is that jack smith's team would drop jury instructions with the correct interpretation a lot and donald trump's team would draft them with the completely wrong, opposite interpretational law, and judge cannon would decide which one to use. maybe a jury instruction being like, just so you know, before we do this, presidential records act means the opposite of what it clearly says, got that?

for this reason, cannon's order me that they both go and draft their own jury instructions, was met with mere universal condemnation, not the first time this has happened. from judges, lawyers, and the prosecutors in jack smith's office. now, smith is taking a clear's van, telling judge cannon, if she indulges in this argument that donald trump to take whatever he wants because the presidential records act says so, an argument that is literally the opposite of the law, he may seek judge cannon's removal, which would be an extraordinary step. it means that this case against donald trump is coming to a head in a really explosive way. harry litman, former u.s. attorney for pennsylvania and also served as attorney justice. he has got a call in l.a. times of how jack smith just called out aileen cannon. kristy greenberg is former for the u.s. attorney's office in new york. they both joined me now. harry, let me start on you because i read your column.

what is the purpose of this filing that jack smith filed in response to judge cannon? >> socha-- so, for starters, chris, just as you said, the law she is entertaining is ludicrous. the position moreover has got no basis. there is an extra, important step here that makes this really aggressive. what you have been really vexing about cannon is that she has again and again just refused to rule, period. this kind of academic exercise, let's talk about instructions, not only avoids a ruling, which is what you need to take things on appeal, but even suggests she might do this kind of shift at trial, after which double jeopardy would prevent a retrial. what smith says, everything you say, but one step more. he is saying, you have to decide this judge cannon, and you have to

decide it in plenty of time for us to appeal, and if you don't, if you continue to debtor, then we are going to mandate an issue, for the very act of not deciding. so far, you have not given us enough to latch on to. guess what, if you continue to not give it to us, we will mandate that very point and as you said, pretty well primed by her previous conduct to know something is amiss. they are calling out, not just the law, but her whole cat and mouse game of not issuing decisions. >> the way you say it in the column, i want to underline this one, judge cannon's alice in wonderland antics seem to avoid issuing a ruling that prosecutors could appeal while also setting the stage adopting trump's ridiculous claims after a jury panel, which could be a fatal blow to the case. once a jury is selected, even a ridiculous order could bring prosecutions away hard stop because of the constitution's double jeopardy clause

precludes retrial. it would be the judicial equivalent of a perfect crime. kristy , again, some of this stuff is complicated. i will not pretend like i know it really well, but the basics here do the same to me, almost bewilderingly clear in so far as , the presidential records act obviously cannot mean, obviously, what is lawyers are saying it means, and indulging it seems ludicrous! >> it does. it seems as though the presidential records act in this contest, --context it is like if you are taking a law school exam, this would be what we call a red hairy. it is completely irrelevant. and it is really something that trump's defense is trying to use to diverge from the main issue, which is whether or not he violated the espionage act. not only is he failing that law school exam by

under the law. so, what jack smith is saying, it is time. you have got to make a decision, you need to make a decision probably, well in advance of trials so that if you get it is wrong again, we need to take this up to the 11th circuit. >> that is an important point. the interpretation is ludicrous and immaterial to law that controls the espionage act, this is national defense information plain as day, and had it, so there you go.

we asked for it back and you did not give it to us. let's talk about the new york case, harry, i want to come back to you. judge rochon doing the opposite of judge cannon in this sense, which is ruling on this sort of immunity hail mary. he basically said that he waited too long to raise the issue that was so clearly last-minute . he denied trump's motion to deny the trial start date until the "rules on this claim in the federal case in washington, d.c. all of that aims to me, april 15th, as of now, is that your understanding? >> exactly right. and it is more than that. remember, this is what he was able to leverage in other settings to get a delay. what was said is, i'm not going to entertain it, you are late. you are so late, i doubt, this is a very dramatic claim, i doubt the sincerity and purpose of what you are doing. you have just basically waited

until the last minute to try and delay things. i am not even going to consider because it is untimely. and really, i don't think he has cards left to play . we are, as you said, 12 days away from picking a jury in a first ever criminal trial with a former president. >> kristy, is that your read as well? >> i agree with harry. looking at the opinion, we are seeing the judge get stronger and stronger in his language with each one of these frivolous motions from donald trump's defense team starting with the discovery violations, which turned out to be nothing. there were no discovery violations. then, we have the motion for recusal, which had already been brought in august 2023. they had nothing new to say, but brought it up again at the 11th hour to try and delay this trial. now, we are seeing with this motion for presidential immunity, which is completely untimely. the court is calling out what

it is, said, the circumstances of this really test the court's credulity here. it is clear what you are doing. what you are doing is just trying to delay this thing and he is not going to entertain it anymore. >> harry litman, kristy greenberg. appreciate you both. coming up, president biden makes the policy case for election as donald trump appeals to the worst instincts of his face . former white house chief of staff ronald klain will join me and where the campaign stands, next . . about three or four years ago, i wasn't feeling as if i was as sharp as i used to be. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- that i'm remembering this, i'm remembering that. i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. it's time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer's dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food.

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donald trump has been dealing with a myriad of legal issues and president biden has been on the road campaigning the last few months. dolling up his rhetorical brand of darkness, especially on immigration, which he clearly thinks is the key to a victorious campaign. on tuesday, at an unnerving michigan rally, trump whipped up his base in front of that feeling of uniformed law enforcement officers. here is some of what he said about immigrants. >> democrats said, please don't call them animals, they are humans. i said, they are not humans, they are animals here at length the -- nancy pelosi told me, please don't use the word animals when you're talking about these people. i said, i will use the word, animal, because that is what they are. >> pelosi was right, calling people animals is dehumanizing and dangerous. but that is what races do, they say things like that. today, president biden held a white house press conference, very different image there with

senator bernie sanders and the two of them touting their successful efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs. biden's guiding theory to beating trump i think in 2020 and again now is that, the american people are better than trump, they are more decent than he is. they care about actual policies and results. but it is an open question whether it is going to work. former white house chief of staff for joe biden, he joins me now. ron, do you agree with that as the fundamental theory of the case that the president and the folks around him have about reelection? >> the case is really simple. the president has done a good job, running on his record and he also has an agenda to make the country a better place. calling migrant who come to this country in work hard, pay taxes, and do some important jobs in our country, calling them animals is just disgraceful. i think the president thinks he is going to front donald trump on his disgraceful conduct, his

record, and talk about what he has done and what he wants to do. it acknowledged the progress of what they made by bringing down the prescription drug costs. working together with president biden, senator sanders got a bill passed that felt negotiate the price of prescription drugs that would save the government and senior citizens a lot of money. now, the president wants that to be true for everyone in our country and people under 65 to have that same benefit, bring down the cost of prescription drugs. that is the real thing that matters in people's lives. prices are too high. people need money in their pockets. i think confronting president trump on his outrageous conduct and chaos, having an agenda for what he wants to do in another four years, i think that is the key thing for getting president biden reelected. >> something we have talked about a lot on this program is some seeming disconnect here and i think it has narrowed. you see it with consumer data, which has gone up and up as

inflation has come down, as i think the parts of the economy that really are booming are more salient to people than those prices were in summer 2022, when people were really freaked out about that. they have not necessarily translated to a bump in approval ratings for the president. it still seems a little disconnected from how people him as president. i want to know you as a person that has worked for the president for many years as chief of staff, with the economic team put together its vision for how to get out of this crisis that has been wildly successful in global comparative terms, how do you think that, of what would be that disconnect still? >> i think the disconnect is, people live their lives and want to know how it affects them, their kitchen table and their family budget. although inflation is moderated, prices are still high. the price of gasoline is high, other prices are still high. people feel that pinch. the wages have gone up, faster than prices. people still think

bill pinched in their pocketbooks. the president needs to make more progress on that. that was the party was talking about today, prescription drugs, achy pain for many families and he will continue to fight to bring down key prices on things that matter. he will have to make more progress and i understand that people say, hey, i am glad you have these good things going on in the economy, glad there are jobs, but people want to see their own personal pocketbook is better off. that is what the resident is delivering an trump is out there spreading hate. i think it is a clear choice on the question of democracy, on the question of unifying the country and the question of what will make people better off in their daily lives. >> i have had the contention for a while, something i've said on the show and other venues, that trump receding from constant public view has helped him. that it is almost impossible to keep in mind just how brent, and weird, and repellent often his behavior and rhetoric is,

and him sort of taking center stage again would remind people of that. and i wonder if you share that view as well? >> i do, chris. i think it is both trump being out, and the view republicans had up until a few weeks ago, fully under the myth that nikki haley would be their nominee and they would not have to deal with trump again. now, there is no fantasy left. i'm donald trump is the nominee, the republican party is his party, he will be their choice. i think frankly, that choice of biden versus trump, this is the choice and trump is now visible again, now public again, i think that will hurt donald trump, help the biden campaign. i like the choice as we head into the summer season, that there is no doubt about it. this is the choice, biden or trump. i think that really helps biden campaign. >> hollow a question for you on immigration. do you think there has been a sufficient rebuttal. obviously, the border bill, the president called the bipartisan border

bill, donald trump scuttled it for the explicit purpose of producing a prolonged crisis he could point to for political gain. do you think the argument, the dehumanizing language is being met sufficiently rhetorically by the president and other democrats to make an affirmative case for why immigration overall is a net for this country? >> i think the resident is trying to get the order under control, using his limited powers and congress won't act to try to do that. i think that is the right thing to do. i think as the campaign proceeds, we have a question of migration in our country and the contribution migrants make in our country in the inhumanity of what trump is saying about tiger and, calling them animals is disgusting. i think that will be a part of the campaign as it goes on and i think that is a sharp contrast. many americans, however you feel about immigration, however

you feel about the border, knows that a lot of these migrants come in and do a lot of important jobs in our country. they are friendly people. they know them. they see them at various work sites and they don't think they are animals and they don't want to hear them being called animals. i think that will be a part of the campaign, but the president needs to do his job, first and foremost, try to use his tools to bring more order at the border and clean up the mess left by donald trump. >> chief of staff for president biden, thank you very much. still ahead, president biden condemns the killing of eight workers in gaza. will the u.s. policy reflect those? senator chris murphy joins us next. next. and wakes up feeling like himself. get the rest to be your best with non-habit forming zzzquil. ♪ ♪ smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu,

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make your get away now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. i know that everybody understands that food is a universal right, that food is not the weapon of war, food should never be a weapon. the airstrikes on our convoy, i don't think were unfortunate mistakes it was really a direct attack on a clearly marked vehicle. whose movements were known by everybody, the idf. i know the israelis, i have many friends that are israelis. i know israelis there that are then is were being raged. >> chef jose andres, founder of

world central kitchen is calling for an independent investigation. two days after an israeli airstrike with three of them killed seven world central aid workers in gaza, the group has suspended its mission to deliver food in gaza after this horrible tragedy. chef jose andres spent the day speaking out for the need for humanitarian aid writing quote come the israeli government needs to open more land routes for food and medicine today. it needs to stop killing millions and aid workers today. it needs to start the long journey to peace . yesterday, president biden sent a statement that he was outraged over the strike that killed the aid workers. tomorrow, he and richmond on yahoo are said to talk about the is really military operation in gaza. biden has no plans to change the u.s. policy toward israel. senator chris murphy, democratic in connecticut is calling for an immediate pause of military operations in gaza. he joined now. good to have you. >> tanks for having me.

>> i just wanted to read what you have to say, i think it was yesterday, and why you felt the need to say this. i am a friend of israel, i am a believer that hamas should pay for their crimes and never can control gaza. but israel needs to pause military operations in gaza right now, dressing starvation and the border manager and crisis needs to be the issue right now. why did you say that? >> i think this is a dire moment. parts of gaza are already in famine. the white house believes in the next few weeks, they may declare throughout gaza, you got 13,000 children who have died. this is a nightmare. the pause is necessary in order to save lives. i frankly think that it is hard to make the case that this campaign is ultimately making israel, or the united dates safer. we had testimony before the city -- and it a few weeks ago on the

national intelligence talking about this being a global moment for terrorism, that the threats to the united states and israel are increasing, not decreasing, as this campaign continues and as and more civilians are caught in the crossfire. whether you care about the lives of those in gaza, the future security of israel and the united states, it's just does not appear that an open ended conflict serves either of those interests. >> aaron david miller, who has worked in u.s. diplomacy for decades, specifically on israel, palestine conflict, interviewed in the new yorker. he had this phrase that really stuck with me. he described the u.s. policy is passive aggressive. i think people see this as strange with the one hand, with the other tension. john kirby defends israeli actions from the podium. the president will sometimes describe it as killing indiscriminate, whether it be leaks about his discussion with benjamin netanyahu, at the same time, every package of munitions and armaments are

approved and sent to israel. nothing is done to materially rein them in. i think people are having a hard time of making sense of this policy and i wonder if you feel that way? >> listen. i think there is a risk of overhyping the impact that u.s. policy has on benjamin netanyahu's decision-making. he is in a fight for political survival. the fact of the matter is, he has a deep belief in the righteousness of this campaign, even if the united states were to temporarily halt sales to israel. i am not sure in the short run it would change israeli strategies. they are not ukraine. they do not depend on u.s. munitions or military support in the same way kyiv does. every moment that this nightmarish humanitarian condition continues inside gaza is a day that the united dates is less safe, because we bear

global responsibility side by side with israel. for those of us that think that intel commitments can be made to open up more humanitarian access, the united states needs to stop sending military aid, it is not only that we hope it has impact on decision-making in israel, but also we think it actually helps insulate us from some of the blowback that is going to occur as terrorist recruitment grows. >> i guess what i would say, you and i have many conversations over the years about u.s. foreign-policy. i have always felt you are a clear observer of him of the ways, some of the traps of u.s. foreign policy, which continues to be this achieve this inertia . it is like, at each moment, there were plausible arguments why we could not get out. sort of like the smoker that says, i'm just going to have one more cigarette. then, over enough time, when you added it all up and aggregated it, and you look back in the rearview mirror you thought, probably should not have been there for 20 years and it feels like, in every

moment, there is justification for why you would support the current trajectory, because of the j danger, because of our ally ship to israel, that you wonder about that aggregate, how long this looks and what that looks like, i guess. >> well, i think the kind of mistakes that israel are making today might be more understandable had we not have understand anorak in our rearview mirror. we have very recent examples of where we were so blinded by our righteous your. at saddam hussein, or at the television, that we double down, and doubled down, and doubled down on a strategy that was not working. we refer so cavalier about civilian casualties in afghanistan and that ended up boosting recruitment for the taliban. the fact that israeli states know how this overreliance on military capabilities to defeat an ideology failed is part of what makes it so hard to continue to understand why

israel does not learn from those mistakes. >> very heavy matter. i do want to wish you good luck and to all members of your fine state for the men's and women's yukon teams, both in the final four, is very exciting. katelyn clark matchup friday night, it is going to be amazing. i can't wait for it. >> yeah, page does not get as much of attention, but she is pretty special. >> she is unbelievable! i am so psyched for that game. senator chris murphy, thank you. still to come, donald trump and the republican are banking on winning voters by dehumanizing immigrants. it is grotesque. is it working, that is coming up? up? when you have chronic kidney disease, there are places you'd like to be.

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remember ronald reagan's talking about jenny carter? >> ronald reagan used to ask-- >> are you better off? >> but are we better off? >> are you better off? >> better off. better off. better off. >> then you were four years ago? >> i asked for this edition in are you better off than four years ago? every presidential candidate asked the question, including donald trump, and his supporters are getting defensive about it. >> but over there, at that hard- hitting new show "the view" whoopi goldberg is accusing you of having memory issues for believing that you were better

off four years ago. >> let's try to remember back then. we have got some evidence as the front page of "the new york times. unrivaled job losses accelerated across the u.s.. 6.6 million apply for benefits. commerce grinds to a near halt. few unscathed by toll of virus across the city. the big map is showing the movements of americans based on cell phone data and showed in white where those stay at home orders had halted almost all travel. states like new york, michigan. the situation was bad, scary, and getting worse. the president overseeing this on spooling disaster was trying to sell a totally different reality in his daily 77 minute news conference. >> breaking news tonight, more than a quarter million coronavirus cases recorded in the u.s. in new york, the deadliest day so far. >> who dropped the ball? >> i always knew that pandemics

are one of the worst things that could happen. >> on the front line, dire shortage of protective gear. >> we have done a job like no one has done a job. >> this is life or death! >> as of this morning, people are very happy. >> we all are afraid for our patients, for our families, for our lives. >> do you think every state in this country should be prepared for mail-in voting? >> essentially, a lot of people cheat with male in voting. >> some cemeteries and funerals homes struggled to keep up with the number of fatalities. >> you just asked your question in a very nasty tone. >> you did not answer. >> i gave you a perfect answer, and you know it. >> my brother died alone. >> i don't know, it is looking like it is having some good results. >> the major change in guidance . the cdc now recommending all americans wear face coverings amid new concerns the virus can spread just by talking.

>> this is voluntary. i don't think i will be doing it. >> why are you opposed to wearing one yourself? >> i am feeling good. >> tonight, the economic crisis is spiraling. >> you try to make it sound so bad. you ought to be ashamed of yourself. it is such a simple question. >> the devastating economic toll, the government estimating more than 7000 jobs lost in march. by the actual numbers are far worse. >> is the president, there are new reports you want to sign the text going out in the several months? >> no. >> the underlying unemployment rate is probably already 10%, if not higher. >> this is ending, this will end. you will see bad things, and in really good things, and it is not going to be too long. >> so, you tell me, you want to trade places with us four years ago? are you better off today? are you better off today than you were four years ago? ago?

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cannot overstate the fixation of the right wing media and donald trump on ill immigration. it is the issue they think will win them the election. and there are signs that it's working. take a look at this polling. all right, orange is the economy, purple's immigration, green is preserving democracy. as recently as six months ago the economy, that orange line, was top of mind for independents and republicans. as the economy improved, look how that purple line, immigration, shoots up. big part is because republicans stopped talking about the economy and went all in on dehumanizing immigrants. at donald trump's rallies he doesn't even try to hide the vile racism. >> joe biden's border blood bath, and that's what what it is, a blood bath. they're not humans. they're animals. i'll use the word animal, because that's what they are. legions and legions of biden

migrants pouring into the -- it's really becoming a third world country. their public schools are straining with hundreds of new migrant student who is don't speak a word of english. i will send joe biden's illegal aliens back home. they will cost taxpayers trillions and trillions of dollars in medicare and social security will buckle and they will collapse. >> grotesque and con sfant. for the record, undocumented workers pay into the insurance system for medicare and social security, they don't get benefits themselves, it's the opposite. they add money to medicare, medicaid, and social security. now, while i continue to have faith the ugliness of what trump is doing on immigration is so obvious it will still be repellant to the majority of americans, i don't know that that's the case. i'm honestly a little worried. maria is an emmy-award winning journalist and the anchor and executive producer of latina usa. she's been covering migration issues in this country for a long time and joins me now. what do you make of that chart

we started out with, which i think is a kind of interesting political skeleton key that as the economy as gotten better, typically among republicans, they have moved from the economy's my number one issue to immigration. >> what do i make of it? it's exactly what you said. as they mentioned the economy less, there's got to be something to fill that gap, right? we understand that republicans, maga republicans, the issue of fear is central, chris. we know that. and there's got to be fear some place. the fear is, oh my god, the economy's going to tank. we're not going to talk about that anymore, because the data doesn't show that. so it's going to go in, as you said, all in, on the question of immigrants. and i actually remain hopeful, chris. i still remain hopeful, because i think after, for example, what just happened in baltimore, people are just going to be like, oh man, they're telling us that there are all these criminals, but actually we see them working when everybody else isn't. and by the way, one last thing,

chris, so just very simple quick data that anybody can get because it's federal, right, so since 1993 to 2019 violent crime in the united states fell by 49%. where is the crime crisis, chris? where is it, right? also, what we do know is that the economy has grown over the past 20 years steadily and according to the congressional budget office, okay, it -- they calculated that immigration will generate $7 trillion to boost the gdp over the next decade. this is not some radical leftist idealogical, these are facts and data. the demagoguefy is what we have to match it with the facts, and we all have to do it. every single one of us. >> i totally agree with that. making that affirmative argument

that people coming here is an incredible net benefit to our society in so many ways, in dollar term, culturally, in terms of all kinds of things. i want to ask you this question, because talking to someone -- he made the point there's a real structural difference in the way people are coming now, typically presenting at the border for asylum than migration in the '90s or even the otts. it used to be really largely mexico. it youed to be people with a lot of family here. people would come over, they would work, they might go back. the relative degree of social isolation of some of the folks who are coming, who really are coming with no one here. they are showing up at the border desperate and scared. it makes them easier to marginalize and exclude. it makes it easier to make an argument to folks who are here that these aren't your people, they're in some other category. i'm curious what you think of that. >> well, actually, from my own

reporting i'm not sure i agree, chris. i think a lot of them still have contacts. they still have -- i mean, i was on the border two and a half weeks ago, saw two guatemalan men who were going to ask for asylum. chris, the difference of what you talked about -- i've been reporting on this for 30 year, okay -- what used to happen is when migrants would get there, they would run away from the border patrol, and that's where the republicans got this, oh my god, they're coming in and they're scary and running away. chris, with my own eye, i saw them come in, start praying, and wait for the border patrol to come and get them. >> yes, yes. >> so the narrative is completely different. and frankly, it -- the immigrants and refugees have pulled the wool right underneath everybody's eyes becauser they are saying, we're coming in, we're giving ourselves over with our hands up. we are not a threat. we're telling you exactly where we're going to be. but the point is is this notion of they are different.

it is different. they used to be mostly from mexico. many are coming from africa. many are coming from places like pakistan and india, but chris, they're all here for the same reason. one, because international law affords them the right to come to the united states and ask for asylum, and two, because human migration is part of our history. if all of the stuff they say is true, the american economy would be tanking, and you and i would be running in fear every single night because of an unleashed crime wave, not true. >> new york city, which had the single biggest violent crime drop last year that it had seen in a long time happened with the migrant influx that happened in the country. those are two things that are correlated, not caused. thank you very much. >> thank you, good night and [ speaking in a non-english language ] because i'm right here with edward. >> thank you. that is all in on this night. alex wagner starts now. good evening, alex. w