effect does it have on them and their personal. >> it's important to note that for organizations like ourselves, we are already operating on a much lower level of capacity than we should be, then we would want to be, given the security situation on the ground, which makes it difficult and dangerous for our staff, our partners to deliver aid, to be able to access and receive aid and continued attacks like the one that we saw yesterday are only going to have a further negative impact on our ability to work inside gaza. >> this is coming is 32,916 gazans have died since october 7. 70% of people are at catastrophic levels of hunger. karen donelan with the irc, thank you for joining me in sharing this information. i really appreciate it. that is our show for tonight. now it is time for the last word with ali velshi, he was in for lawrence. >> not your biggest fan

tonight. i was trying to get ready for this show and then you did this thing about the council man in enid, oklahoma, and then i was like, hey, i've got a show to do but i was glued to that, and that you did it and that you had that conversation with brandy, without covering these stories i think many of us would just not know that stuff like that happens on that campaign. >> it's really important to know that other people in deeply red states, largely republican states, see some of this white supremacy and replacement theory and say no, not for us. >> this is not us, absolutely. thank you for doing that, my friends. great to see you, as always. have a great evening. the battle for the american presidency in 2024 will likely come down to another battle of the blue wall, which includes an in and wisconsin, two reliably democratic states that flipped red in 2016 and led to donald trump's shock victory, aided of course by third-party candidates. votes for jill stein in both

states in 2016 were larger than the vote difference between trump and hillary clinton. joe biden won back both states in 2020, winning michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. that pushed him to 270 electoral votes, even before georgia and arizona. so it cannot be overstated how critical these data around states are and today donald trump took his election denying, xenophobic, apocalypse stump speech to michigan and wisconsin, where there's a presidential primary tonight, by the way. our first guest tonight will be michigan's democratic governor gretchen whitmer, who will join me in just a moment. trump started his day with an anti-immigration screed in grand rapids, michigan, where the democratic national committee launched a new billboard campaign to remind everyone that he lobbied republicans to tank the bipartisan border security bill. in 2020 donald trump lost michigan to joe biden by

154,188 votes. here as part of the vision of america that he pitched to voters in michigan today, weirdly, and a little dictator he and encircled by local sheriff send a police union guy in uniform. >> it's a bloodbath. i tried to use that term incorrectly two weeks ago. it's all about misinformation. if we don't win on november 5, i think our country is going to cease to exist. >> this is not the first time that donald trump has predicted that the united states will cease to exist if he loses. what could cease to exist in this country if donald trump wins is the right to an abortion. even in states where it is currently legal, even in states where the constitution of that state warranties it. donald trump has teased a 15 week federal abortion ban and today he announced that his presidential campaign will release more details about his abortion policy. now this news comes after the florida supreme court allowed that state's six week abortion

ban to take effect. six weeks. but in a separate decision, the court will allow florida voters to decide in november whether to expand reproductive rights in that state. biden's campaign manager, julie chavez rodriguez, told reporters today, quote, donald trump is directly to blame for the fact that abortion has now been effectively banned across the entire southeastern united states, and quote, and today nbc news broke the story that arizona abortion rights advocates say they gathered signatures needed to put a constitutional amendment on the 2024 ballot to protect abortion access up to viability. meanwhile, michigan democrats are expanding reproductive freedoms for michiganders and our next guest, the michigan democratic governor, gretchen whitmer, signed into law yesterday eight series of bills known collectively as the michigan family protection act, which provides legal protections for families whose

children were born via in vitro fertilization. the legislation also ended michigan's criminal been on paid surrogacy, protecting reproductive freedom and choice was a promise that governor whitmer has kept since the supreme court overturned roe v wade. >> as minority leader i urged my colleagues to take the floor and express their outrage and share their stories, and one of them was about to, but he couldn't because it was too difficult. and that's when i realized, how could i ask a colleague to tell their story when i wasn't yet prepared to share my own? so i took to the podium and put aside my prepared remarks and shared the story that i'd only told a handful of people. i talked about the time that i was gay for when i was in college. thankfully it did not result in a pregnancy, but if it had, i knew that i would've been able

to get the care that i needed, that was right for me. i knew that in short, i could do what i needed to do if it came to that. the decision about my future would be mine alone. the bill we were debating at the time would have forced me to buy insurance for my own rape before it happened, or to bear the child of my attacker. 10 years ago today i gave that speech and it didn't change a single vote on the senate floor. hundreds of people called and faxed and emailed my office to share their support or share their own story. i knew then that this fight was not over. today, exactly 10 years later, i'm honored to stand here as the governor and sign the repeal of that awful lot. and i share this story because it reminds us all that when we work to protect our fundamental rights, our reproductive rights, our civil rights, lgbtq+ rights, sometimes that work takes longer than days or weeks. sometimes maybe it takes a decade and it's still not truly

finished. but staying in that fight is the only way to win that fight. >> joining us now is the michigan governor gretchen whitmer. she is the cochair of the biden/harris 2024 reelection campaign. governor, it's good to see you again. thank you for being with us. a number of states including florida are trying to get a ballot measure like you head in michigan, through to guarantee abortion rights in their state. what happens if donald trump's threat or promise, depending on how you see it, to impose a 15 week abortion ban comes to pass? does that have more strength than your state's guarantee? >> listen, i think one of the things with a guy like donald trump is you got to watch what he does. don't listen to what he says. he says a lot of different things but at the end of the

day, he's the one that put three supreme court justices on the bench who overruled roe v wade and it is exactly why we have a patchwork of rights across this country, why reproductive freedom is under attack. so as we look to what may happen in florida and what may happen in arizona, let's be very clear, abortion is on the ballot in all 50 states in this election. if donald trump becomes our president again, he is going to eviscerate many fundamental freedoms, including the right to an abortion, and it would impact women in michigan, new york, california, and every other state like ohio that has achieved protections for this. >> in the last election in your state, you and your fellow statewide democrats leaned into that as an issue, and other issues, obviously. it is the prototype, perhaps, for what can happen across this country in november. >> absolutely. you know, allie, i had to tell my story about being sexually assaulted when i was at michigan state in undergrad, 10

years ago, when i was fighting an effort to make it even harder for women to access abortion. it didn't change a single vote that day, but i knew after the response that i heard from people across michigan that we were right on this issue. 10 years later to the day, i was able to sign the repeal of that very lot. this is a fight we women in america and our families and our allies are ready to have. we shouldn't have to. it is horrifying that we are in this moment but i don't think anyone should underestimate american women and how strongly we, and men and allies across this country feel about this issue, and we are going to win on its. >> one of the things you did in that speech a decade ago, when you were the minority leader in the senate, you said you didn't really like talking about this that much but you wanted people to see who the women are on the other side of the story, on the other side of the equation. and we have learned that since

the fall of roe. these obstructions about women who get abortions have now become real stories about women who are actually dying in the effort to have reproductive healthcare. >> that's right and when i told this story it didn't sway a single vote that day and sadly, once i just signed into law this repeal of the ban on paid surrogacy in michigan, we want to help women and their families , same-sex couples as well, start a family in whatever way makes sense for them, on their own terms, where and when they're ready. we can protect all of those rights but this bill that i just signed into law yesterday only had two republicans vote in favor of it. this was the same group of people that said, oh, we all support ivf when the ruling came out but when they had a vote in front of them to protect ivf, and protect surrogacy, they voted no so that's why i say watch what

people do, don't listen to what they say, what would they do and that's when they'll tell you who they are. >> the ivf issue in alabama, and i'm glad you have straightened this out in michigan, but it confused many of us as we didn't understand, what's this about, why are people against ivf? most people just think ivf is difficult and offensive and hard to achieve, that it helps people who are trying to have children. what is your law in michigan now protect against? >> so we have secured and made very clear what the rights are and codified ivf as well as decriminalized paid surrogacy. i think those are two very important ways that many people create families and we want to ensure that if you have a family, you are ready to have it, you get all the avenues to do exactly that. if an embryo is considered a human being, has rights of a human being, that means ivf of course, you saw what happened in alabama but it also could extend to stem cell research. it could bend the cutting edge research forgers when it comes to alzheimer's or juvenile diabetes. i mean this is a really scary

moment and if people are really paying attention, you see how broad all of these attacks could be applied and it is why this fight is so important and why we've all got to be a part of it. >> donald trump said a lot of things in michigan that are of interest, including how the country is going to cease to exist if he's not president, and death to our cities and our suburbs and all of this. he also pointed out that suburban housewives love him. he made that very specific, he was talking about suburban housewives. this is always a discussion that comes up. you are from michigan. your victories were across the board in urban areas and suburban areas and on these issues of reproductive rights and freedoms in general, it seems to cross a lot of those lines. i suspect there are some suburban housewives in michigan who are kind of annoyed that donald trump is invoking them for nonsense that they wouldn't support. >> i sure as heck would be. we know that the hard-working women and men of this state spoke loud and clear in the last election and sent me back

to keep doing this job, and i'll tell you i think that the conversation around our border is serious. we need serious leaders who are going to try to solve problems. donald trump couldn't get it done when he was president. he called me and asked me to send the michigan national guard and we did. we performed some surveillance on the southern border to help him out. he couldn't get it fixed so when joe biden was on the precipice of working with congress to finally have some real protections, he's the one that torpedoed it. so to come into this state and to tell people that he was the one that could've fixed it when it's exactly the opposite, that's why i say you can't listen to what these guys say. you've got to look at the record. you've got to look at the facts and that's why i appreciate the work that you do. >> how do you convince people who may, including your state, either be complacent about the fact that they've got abortion protections in their state, they got you as their governor,

or margin it all up with everything joe biden has been doing? how do you talk to them without minimizing maybe their valid concerns about the fact that the option, if they don't vote for joe biden or they don't vote at all is donald trump? >> i think it's by listening. we've got to earn people's votes. the vote is an important thing that someone has, that only that person can exercise, and you've got to earn that. i think it starts with listening. it extends to making sure people have the facts. i'm putting it out there what really is at stake in this election. again, organization fight like hell if anyone wants to help. that work we are doing is centered around if people want to understand, just because we made these great strides in michigan, i'm so proud of that, it can be undone quickly if we get a trump term where he gets a congress that will send him an abortion ban. he's already said he's going to sign it and that's why we can't let people assume that just

because you're in a state that affords you these freedoms right now, that they're always going to be intact. we are all at risk in this upcoming presidential election. >> what about the movement that we saw, the uncommitted movement during the primaries? those are people who when presented with the idea of the binary choice between donald trump and joe biden, should be clear, have responded by saying, but that minimizes my actual concerns. that means that your things that you are worried about are not that important right now. what does listening to them or hearing them look like to you, specifically in michigan? because there are a lot of people who voted, came out to cast an uncommitted ballot >> there are a lot of people hurting at what is happening in gaza and israel, the hostages as well as the innocent lives that are being lost every single day. it's horrific and here in michigan we've got a huge population that is often one degree of separation from people that are suffering or people that are morning. it is horribly hard and that's

why i think showing up and listening, making sure that we stay focused on solving problems, keeping people safe here at home and ensuring that they understand all the different things we are working on to give people a path to a good life here and to make sure that america is a edible force around the world, a force for good. but no voter, new group or community is monolithic. we've got a lot of work to do and that's just the very real truth. >> governor whitmer, good to see you again. thank you for spending time with us this evening. >> thank you. coming up, breaking election news. tonight joe biden is winning the democratic primary in wisconsin by a bigger margin than donald trump is winning the republican primary and earlier today donald trump was there, lying about the 2020 presidential election results. wisconsin democratic party chairman ben wicker joins us next. t strikes and prevent migraine attacks.

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it's election day in wisconsin. at this hour, with nearly 70% of the vote in, joe biden is winning 87% of the democratic vote with a little less than 10% of the vote going to uninstructed, which is a protest vote in opposition to the war in gaza. donald trump has 76% of the republican vote with more than 13% going to nikki haley, who dropped out a month ago, and 4% of the republican vote going to uninstructed. unclear about what that is.

nbc news is projecting that joe biden and donald trump have won their respective parties presidential primaries, which all seems pretty obvious since they are both their parties presumed nominees at this point. but sometimes you have to say stuff on the record, especially with trump, and here is just another example of why. earlier tonight, donald trump held a rally in green bay, wisconsin, where he once again spread lies about the 2020 election and claimed that he won the state of wisconsin. >> we won this state. we won this state by a lot and it came out that we won the state can actually. >> he didn't win. it didn't come out that he won. that's just a lie. donald trump lost the state of wisconsin in 2020 to president biden by more than 20,000 votes. here's what the wisconsin secretary of state sarah godlewski had to say earlier about the former president's returned to her state to go >> today is the first time trump has been here in almost two years. you know why? he's been too busy focusing on himself. whether that's peddling his next gimmick like buying a

bible or $399 sneakers that just working families can't afford, to being in court because he has 88 terminal charges against him. and as president, donald trump didn't do things for working families here in wisconsin. let's talk about his tax plan. you know his tax plan provided tax breaks for the wealthy 1% and corporations, so the amazons of the world pay basically zero in texas, and my parents, who are retired public school teachers, paid more. that's not right. two, we look at his tax cuts alone, they increase the deficit by almost $2 trillion. that's not fiscally responsible.

>> joining us now, ben wicker, the chairman of the democratic party of wisconsin. good to see you again. thank you for being with us. what do you make of the results? obviously not the big headlines that biden want and trump want but how do you make out all this is playing out in the number of people who came out, the enthusiasm and the fact that wisconsin, though joe biden won, is a tight place? >> it's great to be with you today and it's a big night in wisconsin. i think the core story is kind of shown with what happened in each party on the election day today. trump was telling his supporters to wait in line to see him speak and they were asking people to knock on doors all over the state, which we did, we've knocked on thousands of doors, phone calls, relational contacts over the last month. tens of thousands of voters we've reached just today to support local candidates, to get out the vote for president biden and then you see the results. the republican party is divided. they are still in the middle of a civil war, a civil war about

whether we should be a democracy, about who won in 2020 and what there is an acknowledged reality about, national abortion bans, which trump is teasing he's about to announce his support for. we don't know exactly what he's going to say. on the democratic side there is a clear call for change in the middle east, that the heartbreaking crisis that we are seeing, and a very clear vote of confidence for president biden. democrats want to stop trump. they want another biden/harris term. they want to see progress and that is what most people want. it's not just hard-core democrats. most independents, a lot of republicans and almost all democrats want to see us move forward, protect freedom in a democracy and move toward peace and justice and an economy that works for working people and brings down costs instead of ransacking the national treasury to hand out huge bags of money to the ultra-wealthy,

which is the trump way of doing the economy. >> let's divide those two things up. on the one side of things, the abortion, the freedoms, the liberty and future of the country, democracy, that whole bucket of things in a tight place like wisconsin. in fact, since the last election we have seen on the matter of abortion, it worked out differently in wisconsin than it did in michigan because it was a judicial election but we saw people do the same thing that they did in michigan. when pressed about the issues of liberty and freedom they chose liberty and freedom and donald trump is on the wrong side of that. >> that's absolutely right. everywhere where people haven't had the chance to go to the ballot box and cast a vote for whether they should make their own decisions about their own bodies or whether politicians should override themselves and their doctors and the choices that they need to be able to make. every time voters vote for freedom, and it's as clear as day. it's as clear as day and the 2024 election in some ways will be a ref original referendum on

whether to have a national abortion ban. what the republicans are putting on the table with mike johnson as the speaker of the house, with this array of maga republicans running for u.s. senate, including in wisconsin, derek hough d, who last time he ran supported a total abortion ban in 2012 and life begins at conception, the attacks on ivf that we see in alabama. this is what the republican party is putting on offer, and on the other side, as president biden setting the state of the union address, you elect a congress that believes in reproductive freedom, that sends him a bill to put the protections of roe versus wade back in place, he will sign that bill and we will defend reproductive freedom coast-to- coast, nationwide in wisconsin and everywhere else. that is the choice voters have. how you feel about the candidates, they can make a choice about whether they want the power to make their own decisions about their own lives or they want republican politicians to override it. >> let me ask you this, because

you are not running for office. i would think you're going to give me a more straight answers and people who are in office, running for office. 9.3% of people voted on instructed. that's 31,000 -- 32,000 votes already and we still have more votes to come in. that's more people who went out and said i'm not going to support joe biden and we don't know if that happens in the election, then democrats won by in the last election. that's a big brand michigan was a big number, too. that's enough to sink democrats in both states if there isn't a better answer than what bidens come up with so far. do you worry about that? >> the voters who cast out it's in the uninstructed column, they voted in the democratic primary, so they are democrats. they know that trump is not the answer and they were voting to send a message about changes that they want to see, not after the election but before the election, and what they are calling for is what most americans want and the president is calling for, working towards, which is an enduring, just peace. that is what people want to see.

and when we see the heartbreaking deaths that are happening right now of kids, of aid workers, and the situation with hostages, both for israel and palestine, what we need is self-determination and peace and a resolution for the crisis that we see right now. voters are calling for that change and they're doing it in the most civic way possible, by casting ballots. if you vote in the primary election you are much more likely to vote in november. so the opportunity now is to create that change, make clear what the values are that the administration, biden and harris are working to advance, and as we see change on the ground, we have the opportunity to come together around them. the contrast will become even clearer with a trump administration, what they would do in this situation is total disregard for the lives of palestinian civilians and frankly for the hostages, for just about anyone else. that's the contrast that will become more and more clear as we make progress. this is a call for change in

the great american tradition of speaking your mind at the ballot box and its civic engagement. it's not tuning out from the system. it's getting involved. i think we have a chance to earn all these votes were the biden/harris team as we get into november. >> i agree with you, i applaud people who will get up and go to the ballot box to make their protest. great to see you as always, thank you, my friend. been with her is the chairman of the democratic party of wisconsin. coming up, the israeli government is facing widespread condemnation after an airstrike by its military killed seven air aid workers trying to feed the people of gaza. president biden said today he's outraged and heartbroken while one senior u.n. official said today there is no safe place left in gaza. we'll go to the region for a live report, next.

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breaking news now, president joe biden has issued a statement on the deaths of humanitarian workers in gaza at the hands of the israeli defense forces., quote, i am outraged and heart can buy the deaths of seven humanitarian workers from world central kitchen including one american in gaza yesterday. they were providing food to hungry civilians in the middle of a war. they were brave and selfless. their debts are a tragedy. israel has pledged to conduct a thorough investigation into why the aid workers vehicles were hit by airstrikes. that investigation must be swift and it must bring accountability, and its findings must made public. the united states will continue to do all we can to deliver humanitarian assistance to

palestinian civilians in gaza are all-american means. i will continue to press israel to do more to facilitate that aid and we are pushing hard for an immediate cease-fire as part of a hostage deal. i have a team in cairo working on this right now, and quote. 43-year-old sumi frankoff, an australian humanitarian aid worker, was one of seven workers killed in gaza last night. >> this is the beautiful, fragrant, aromatic rice that will be served today. >> world central kitchen says izumi and the six other workers had just unloaded 100 tons of humanitarian food aid when their convoy was attacked by the idf. chef jose andres, the founder of world central kitchen, released this statement, quote, world central kitchen lost several of our sisters and brothers in an idf airstrike in gaza. i am heartbroken and grieving for their families and friends and our whole wc k family. these are people, angels i

served alongside in ukraine, gaza, turkey, morocco, bahamas, indonesia. they are not faceless. they are not nameless. israeli government needs to stop this indiscriminate killing. it needs to stop restricting humanitarian aid, stop killing civilians and aid workers and stop using food as a weapon. no more innocent lives lost. piece starts with our shared humanity. it needs to start now, and quote. today the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu responded to the attack saying the idf, quote, unintentionally hit innocent people in the gaza strip. this happens in war and we will do everything so that this thing does not happen again, end quote. today at a weiss house press briefing, andrew feinberg, correspondent for the independent, pressed the national security communications advisor junker before an excellent nation on what netanyahu calls the unintentional strike. >> describe the strike as a possible mistake by israel.

according to ha'aretz, israeli newspaper, it wasn't one strike but three, the first one, than an interval during which aid workers got out of their vehicles, removed the wounded, tried to move to another vehicle, which was struck, and then a third strike as they tried to move and escaping a third vehicle, at which point all of them were dead. how would be second and third strikes of these marked vehicles ba mistake and why would the u.s. not more forcefully set conditions on the use of u.s.-made weaponry when it is being used to target aid workers. if the first one was a mistake, the second two were targeted with the intent of killing everyone in that convoy. so how do you respond? >> first of all, there is an investigation, so why don't we let it get done and why don't we see what they find in terms

of the decision-making process that led to this terrible outcome? the prime minister and the idf have noted that it was there ever, or mistake, there ever. they are investigating it. let them do that work and let them see what they come up with, and then we'll go from there. >> joining us now from jerusalem is another journalist, no guitar a polsky. she has spent over two decades covering the israeli/palestine conflict. good to see you, my friend. this comes in the context of a lot of things that are happening in israel right now including increased protests, a situation -- you've been covering this for almost 2 years now, including protest that involve the hostage families and then of course this deep tragedy. give me a sense of what's happening and what you're hearing where you are. >> well, there's a feeling of kind of unreality here right now. this tragedy today involves an organization that nobody has any doubts about. it's not like the u.n. agencies

that israel accuses of having been in cahoots let's say like hamas in gaza. nobody has any doubts whatsoever about what chef jose andres's world central kitchen is doing there, and in fact, this is an organization that brought food to israelis initially after the hamas attack. so it seems to have changed somehow, whatever israeli ambivalence there was about the lack of information coming out of gaza to israel these. we saw tonight a massive antiwar rally in jerusalem. i think there's no other way to describe it. anti-netanyahu, antiwar, and pro-bringing the hostages home at any cost. the government, israeli government feels very threatened by these protests and for now, there's no movement. i have to say there's no movement on either side. hamas is not accepting a

hostage exchange, just like the israeli government also isn't. >> that's why it was interesting when joe biden made that reference, i've got people in cairo working on it right now, as if there's a potential breakthrough. it would be a surprise to all of us if that were the case that you bring up something interesting because the anti- netanyahu protest have been going on for a very, very long time, far more than a year before october 7. they weren't always the same as antiwar protest. it's not always the same people. the protests are large. you would almost think after all these months, they start to fizzle. they're not. they're getting stronger and the hostage families are getting more and more frustrated to say can we get what is left of our family members back now and you can sort this other stuff out yourself later? >> right. a remarkable thing has happened. it's just happened in the last 48 hours or so. there have been massive protests. there was some kind of encounter between a few of these families and netanyahu that left the families feeling completely betrayed, and so

they shifted tactics and they announced publicly that they were doing so. one of the fathers of a hostage came right out and said to netanyahu, you forced us into the arms of the protest. you've made us one. so you're absolutely right. the families of hostages have spent the last six months now just basically begging to get their loved ones home and they now feel, they've said openly, that they feel the israeli prime minister is an obstacle to that aim, and so they have joined explicitly the anti- netanyahu protest. they've given a kind of new fuel to this movement. there were 100,000 people surrounding the knesset. remember this is mid war with a very depressed population. there are 100,000 people around the knesset sunday night. there is a tent city around the knesset right now. this is a weeklong protest. the government doesn't seem to be react but there is a feeling

of a public shift. >> interesting. because i covered terrible things like hurricanes and disasters and i've run into jose or his people from world central kitchen all around the world. but often they are there as an adjunct. they are there as an extra support. the problem in gaza is that a number of aid agencies have now ceased their work while they evaluate the security situation. but it's not like there's an alternative. the israelis don't operate from a food distribution perspective in gaza. hamas doesn't now operate as a food distribution mechanism in gaza. this is becoming -- this famine is becoming very real. >> absolutely. and i don't know what to call what happened but the catastrophe of last night, and to be frank, 24 hours later, more now, 25 hours later, the lack of a coherent israeli response is leaving israel stranded as the only party

responsible for what is happening in gaza. their attempt -- the israeli attempt to bring in international organizations, to allow for example the uae to do air drops, and then the u.s. and jordan, apparently what you and i have heard today is that israel wanted the world central kitchen to have some kind of permanent role districting aid inside gaza, counting on them for the future. obviously all of that has been blown up by this disaster and i think israel is going to be left having to make very, very difficult decisions in a matter of days. >> it's a logistical issue, and if you needed someone to take that over you would talk to jose andres, because they are particularly good at that, but it's a weird situation. thanks as always for adding your analysis and your great reporting. coming up, will judge aileen cannon help donald trump

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special counsel jack smith and donald trump have until midnight tonight to respond to an order from judge aileen cannon with their proposed jury instructions in the criminal case against donald trump for his alleged illegal retention of classified documents and his obstruction of efforts by the government to get them back. judge cannon has already said

she's considering giving an instruction to jurors that is essentially donald trump's defense in the case, a president has sole authority under the presidential records act to categorize records as personal or presidential during his or her presidency. judge cannon has yet to rule on new proposed dates for the trial to begin, fueling concerns that jack smith's proposed july start might not happen. in a paperless order today, judge cannon ordered donald trump and his co-defendants in the documents case to file a speedy trial report by friday, saying, the report shall include defendants positions on all excludable time from the speedy trial. and expressly indicate any defendants current assertion or waiver of speedy trial rights, with associated time frames. the palm beach county state attorney david ehrenberg tells nbc news that judge cannon makes even clearer in her

paperless order that the classified documents case was never going to trial before the election. 20s now, andrew weissman, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. he's a msnbc legal analyst in the coauthor of the new york times best-selling book, the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary. bradley moss is a national security attorney who represents people who work in the intelligence community. good evening to both of you, we have a lot of ground to cover. radley, i want to start with you, you deal specifically in matters of documents and top- secret stuff and classified matters. this thing about letting the jury consider the idea that the president has the right to determine what is a presidential record or not, i don't know much about this. but i didn't think that was actually really a thing, i didn't think you could give the jury an option to make that determination. >> no, it's not a thing, you're not alone on that front. that is a strict question of

law. if judge cannon believes there is some legitimacy to that argument, that's something donald trump has been outlining his pretrial motions, then she should grant one of his pretrial motions to throw out the indictment and let this go to the 11th circuit on appeal. that's a strict question of law. the issue, in fact, would be whether the information was national defense information, if donald trump was in possession of it without authorization, if he tried to conceal it when confronted by the government. those are the questions that would be relevant when it comes to an espionage act, charge. i don't know where she was possibly going with this proposed jury instruction, other than the idea that she just doesn't want to have to take the responsibility of making these decisions and having her name on that opinion that rules against donald trump on that. beyond that, i'm baffled. >> andrew weissman, take a shot, what do you make of what that was all about? >> i think that the judge is

completely in the bag for donald trump. the proposal that she gave for, to address an issue, both options that she set forth are wrong, are legally wrong. the filing today is going to be fascinating, because the real issue is, is the government going to view this as the rubicon where they are going to be putting a line in the sand saying, if this is where you're going, if you are saying that you're going to get one of these two wrong instructions, both being wrong, we are going to appeal you, we're going to do it by appeal, going to do it by a writ of mandamus, but we're done. i'm fascinated to see whether they think this is it. they're done with her, because to bradley's point, the reason he is saying he's baffled is because there is no law to support what she's doing. that we were in the same

situation pretrial, where the 11th circuit reversed this judge not once, but twice. so the fascinating thing in the next hours, we're going to learn what the doj's view is, in terms of how significant they think this is. >> bradley, let's take that further, maybe she's in the back for drum. she has been corrected by the 11th circuit a couple of times, so you're right, she could send it up and see what happens, but, how, what are the implications, her being in the bag for trump? the most serious one seems to be she might make mistakes and how she instructs the jury, how she deals with things, but that might be appealed. the issue here is will this trial see the light of day before the election? >> it's getting really hard to imagine how this is going to happen before the election at this point. if for no other reason than she's taking her sweet time more than anyone i can imagine in a criminal trial to issue, if there's been a pile of motions that have been stacking

up that she still has that have been reached out for weeks, she had a hearing over a month ago, the idea of setting a new trial schedule, i don't know why where she's going with this, we know she issue that order asking for a speedy trial report from the defendants, which they haven't done, but, i don't know if she's trying to iron out the details before she does set a new trial date, at this point i would not be shocked if she says i'm pushing this off until sometime in spring 2025. >> you can do this in 60 seconds, that's all the time i have. you argue that she's justifying her sluggishness. >> i think, i think i'm with bradley. i think she's going to point out that she has not violated the speedy trial act, she's anticipating that the government may try to go up to the 11th circuit, and that they're going to try and force either a change of judge, or to

get a trial date set, and she's going to try to create a record that she hasn't been delaying this case, since she's been complying with the speedy trial act. that's the only way i can understand her latest paperless order asking for this information from the defense, which seems totally unnecessary. you have an erratic, inexperienced judge who seems quite partisan, making rulings that seem almost unilaterally in favor of one side. i would say keep your eye on this filing in terms of whether doj has had it. >> thanks very much. andrew weissman and bradley moss, we'll be right back. bac. step back out there, with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing day-to-day activities.

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>> that is tonight last word, the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle begins right now. tonight, center stage in the presidential election, after big news out of florida. how the issue of abortion could shape the outcome