>> the president conveyed he is grieving with the entire world central kitchen family. the president conveyed he will make clear to israel that humanitarian aid workers must be

protected. >> there is global outrage after an israeli strike killed seven humanitarian aid workers from chef jose andres' world central kitchen, which calls the strike unforgivable. also tonight, the trump cult. to his followers, his alleged crimes mean nothing and his rallies now depict him as the savior. we'll dig into what trump learned from a world famous minister from the 1950s and '60s. plus, 103 years after the tulsa race massacre, two centenarian survivors make one last push for justice with a critical court hearing taking place today. but we begin tonight with donald trump's long line of magical financial saviors. from his father to deutsche bank to other financiers, trump has always had financial rescuers swoop in and come to the rescue when he's messed up, which has happened a lot. the latest is billionaire don

hanky, owner of the insurance company that just put up the $175 million bond in trump's new york civil fraud case. according to forbes, hanky's company knight specialty insurance is the one that initiated the deal with trump. he told forbes that trump's collateral to secure the loan was a combination of cash and investment grade bonds. you may wonder why hanky or really anyone would want to put up such a large sum of money for trump. especially now. well, it turns out it's not the only loandoled out to trump recently. he's also the largest investor in aos bank which refinanced trump's loan on trump tower and his golf course in 20 to the tune of $100 million and $125 million respectively. perhaps hanky doesn't want to see trump's assets get seized so that he can keep collecting his

money, including interest. this comes after another of trump's failing businesses, truth social, seems to be going bust. shares of the stock plunged more than 20% yesterday, as the company announced it lost more than $58 million last year. it couldn't have helped that there was talk that trump was trying to get the company's board to let him out of his obligation to hold on to the stock as per the normal rules so he could dump it to pay for his civil fraud judgment. so the stock has been revealed to be a pump and dump scam. surprise. but is that really a surprise? it's not like truth social is all that popular. it's estimated to only have roughly 5 million active users compared to the billions with a "b" who use tiktok or facebook. i mean, other than trump, can you name any other prominent truth social users? right. i can't either. so that's why trump was left to turn to don hanky to bail him out. and remember, putting up these

bonds like he also did in the e. jean carroll case, are all attempts to tie these judgments up in appeals so he can prolong having to pay anyone. it's not like he has a factual case to make in his appeals but that doesn't matter to him. this also comes against the backdrop of his immigrant hush money trial in new york and the utter desperation dripping from trump. since nothing he's done so far has helped him keep the trial from starting later this month, that includes trying to terrorize the judge's daughter through social media posts, which has finally led judge juan merchan to expand the gag order against trump, making family members including his and alvin bragg's off limits. in last night's order, merchan claims trump's pattern of attacking family members served no legitimate purpose other than injecting fear in those called to participate in the trial. quote, all citizens called upon to participate in this proceedings whether as a juror,

a witness, or in some other capacity, must now concern themselves not only with their own personal safety but with the safety and the potential for personal attacks upon their loved ones. that reality cannot be overstated. it is no longer just a mere possibility or a reasonable likelihood that there exists a threat to the integrity of the judicial proceedings. the threat is very real. admonitions are not enough. nor is reliance on self restraint. self restraint is something trump has never had. and that was clearly shown by his return this morning to raging about the judge in his -- the judges in his various cases with a noted exception of the friendly florida judge in his document retention case. and testing the boundaries of judge merchan's gag order. and perhaps showing their desperation, trump's lawyers are seeking to move merchan's recusal -- move for merchan's recusal for a second time. in a letter to the judge yesterday that was just released

publicly this afternoon, they're citing the social media post from the judge's daughter as well as the newly expanded gag order as cause for the judge to rethink his decision last year not to recuse himself. at least they started this time with their letter by saying we respectfully submit this request. small things. joining me now is glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor, msnbc legal analyst and host of the justice matters podcast. tim o'brien, senior executive editor of bloomberg opinion and an msnbc political analyst. and former senator and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. thank you all for being here. i'm going to start at the table with you, tim. trump's former lawyer, ty cobb, he talked about why these attacks continue on these judges. he says the following. it's clearly strategic. and this guy served his white house lawyer, ty cobb did, his attacks are designed around delegitimizing the proceedings, about stalling, trying to make

this case not start this month. >> there's a track record there. remember, he did this throughout the mueller investigation. he basically engaged in witness intimidation. i think there was overt obstruction of justice during that investigation. he did this routinely in new york as a developer. if he couldn't get the zoning he wanted, he would go after mayors. if he couldn't get a local business to get out of his way, he went after the business owners. he's just doing this on a bigger stage now, of course. and the implications of it are formore disturbing because he's a former president with a closely watched social media feed. and with followers who are deeply devoted to him. so when he makes a threat to anyone in his purview, it carries the real possibility of violence with it. whether it's a court judge or an election worker, or anyone else. and so this defense that he's mounted, i think in every court case, certainly in the j 6 trial, in georgia and in new york is he's merely exercising

his free speech rights. he has a right to say he thinks the courts are coming after him. he has a right to say he could assemble on the mall on january 6th and incite people to riot because he was exercising free speech. when in fact any free speech protection in this country doesn't encompass calls to violence or calls to commit crimes. so i think the problem is that the system itself doesn't take someone like him into account fully so they're prepared for it before he starts doing it. you know, on the admiral side of the ledger, you have judge merchan, who clearly drafted a gag order that didn't anticipate trump would then turn around and target his own daughter. and then you have other people who are easily manipulated lie his business parters who he abuses in public. what happens at the end of the day is there aren't enough people holding him to account like an average citizen instead of a special case.

>> what can you do about it? who going to check me, boo, they might say in the streets. the reality is he knows he's not going to jail. jonathan alter said may they should make him clean the sidewalks. he knows he's not going to be incarcerated for it. so he's using what amounts to mob tactics to make the case stop. make it stop any way he can. >> i will never give up on the rule of law. and i hear when you say he knows he's not going to jail, but look. judge merchan is all about business. i like to think perhaps donald trump has met his match in judge merchan. i think he also met his match in judge tanya chutkan in washington. unfortunately, tanya chutkan is no match for the supreme court which brought his d.c. federal prosecution to a screeching halt for no good reason. because there's no constitutional support for the notion that the president is absolutely immune from being

prosecuted for crimes he commits against the american people while in office. but judge merchan is all about business. he has put this gag order in place. he's expanded it. will donald trump violate it? of course he will, and the new york law provides that two things can happen if he is found to be in criminal contempt. one, he can be fined $1,000. big whoop for donald trump. but he can also be jailed for up to 30 days. i am not prepared to give up the ghost on donald trump never seeing the inside of a jail cell because there will have to be some punishment if he violates this gag order. >> and claire, the good news i think in all of this mess is that what you're starting to see is a break in the fear cycle. you're starting to see a handful, not a lot, but a handful of republican politicians who say, you know what, no. i would rather leave office than have to deal with this guy. i'm not going to support him. you saw mark esper, his former defense secretary, say i won't

vote for him. you're starting to see cracks in the fear. i think the leaders of that have been the members of our judicial branch. you have seen prosecutors, like letitia james, like fani willis who say you can try to humiliate me, do whatever you want. i'm not giving up. judge merchan who said you're attacking my daughter. you're not going to do that. i'm going to stand up to those who say it would be a bad look to expand this order, talking about my family. you're starting to see people will stand up to him, not just jack smith. that seems to me to be good news. >> yeah. i think there are a few. unfortunately, there are way too many that are in office right now that are part of this chapter in history that will be written that the republican party failed to stand up to a bully that wanted to destroy not just many institutions but the most important institution, which is the rule of law in this country. you know, i remember, joy, you may remember your first year of law school, but i remember my

first year of law school and i remember -- >> i didn't go. this is law school. >> i thought you did. >> my law school is "the reidout." i just hang out with a lot of lawyers. >> i know you went to some fancy school. can know that. my first year of law school, i had a law professor explain to the class that judges were a lot like people in striped shirts at athletic games because they interpret the rules that have been set down and apply the rules and punish people who don't obey the rules. now, can you imagine what trump supporters would do that are from, say, went to purdue or from, say, north carolina, if this week dj burns or edey started saying that the refs' children were on the take and that the refs attacking them for being crooked and horrible? can you imagine the hue and cry

that would go up over a referee in a basketball game? this is much, much worse, and that's what he's doing. he wants to be the victim. he wants to destroy the institutions that keep the law in this country applicable to everyone, and frapgly, joy, you know what i think he wants to do? i think he wants to be found in contempt. i think he believes it will help him win an election which ultimately will let him escape accountability on most of the charges against him. >> right, but the problem is, and tim, i'll go to you on this, is that he also can't bully his former apprentice contestants who started truth social. they're suing him. they're saying you can't rob us from this decrepit app. he has lost this magic that he once had at donald trump who could get the apprentice. he couldn't even get cast on something like the apprentice now. he is a diminished figure, regardless of the fact that he

still does incite fear and dread throughout our country, but he is a diminished figure. >> um, you know, i would argue actually that i think he's got a bigger platform than he ever had on the apprentice now. but prior to the apprentice, he was regarded as this footnote to jokes about the excesses of the 1980s. and he sort of wandered in the wilderness and was a curiosity on gossip pages and wasn't taken seriously. then he lands on the apprentice and he's converted into this sort of entrepreneurial savant, which he never was. he was a serial bankruptcy artist. and then he basically takes that act to the white house. and i do think that that is part of the trump cult is built on this idea that he's a can-do business man and he's going to lead his followers to the promise land. now, you know, his partners in truth social are suing him, but he's suing them back in a separate court. he doesn't want them to have any piece of the pie of a business they brought to his doorstep.

a fly by night business that, you know, has revenues that most businesses could make in a bake sale. and lost bucket loads of money last year, and the stock price is getting hammered, and the whole thing's business plan is predicated on maybe trump will become president, and then his posts on the site will have value. between now and then, he's running to find money to pay court judgments. and he's not going to let people that he's in business with get a piece of the pie, which is why he's suing them. that's also vintage trump. he sued partners that he was in the casino business with, people he was in the hotel businesses with. he's never not turned on his partners or on people who i think are ignorant enough or naive enough to believe that he's actually going to take them along for the ride, including his voters. >> just very quickly between glenn and claire, glenn, do you believe this trial will start on time or will any of these delay tactics and mob tactics slow it

down? >> you know, the good news is the issue that brought the d.c. prosecutor to a grinding halt, that kind of an issue is not present in the new york prosecution. there is no case ending motion that if judge merchan deied it, he could appeal it and the new york appeals court would bring it to a screeching halt. judge merchan has proved he's both up to the challenge and determined to get this case to go on april 15th and i believe it will commence on april 15th. but donald trump will still try to pull out every trick in the book to keep that from happening. >> tax day. claire mccaskill, political implications if the trial happens and he's convicted? >> political implications if he's convicted, it will certainly help joe biden. it will calcify his base and they'll stay with him because this is all he's now set the table that this is a fraud and a witch hunt and so forth and so on. for those swing voters who decide presidential elections, it will matter.

i agree with glenn. i think judge merchan is on to this guy. i think he sees what he's trying to do, and are don't think he's going to put up with it. now, what if he's acquitted or gets a hung jury, we have to talk about that another night. >> we'll talk about that, cross that bridge when we come to it. thank you all. up next on "the reidout," the maga movement bears the hallmarks of a cult with trump's rhetoric and rallies reaching religious fervor, and it has the power to take down our democracy. we'll turn an expert on the cult of trump next.

are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

♪ and sizes up♪to a g-cup, ♪ shop etsy until april 15th and get up to 30% off thoughtful pieces made by real people to brighten your home. save on lighting, furniture, gifts and more.

when you need 'just the thing' to make your space feel like new... etsy has it. do you own a lot of bras, but not a single one you really love. it's time you got into a wireless bras from knix. the ultimate in comfort and support, in sizes up to a g-cup. visit knix.com to find a wireless bra you'll love. her uncle's unhappy. in s i'm sensing ancup. underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity.

their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

positive thinking works wonders. and it does, too. that is for sure. whatever your life is this morning, unsatisfactory, unhappy, defeated perhaps, i want to tell you it doesn't need to remain that way. >> that was dr. norman vincent peale, the 1950s minister and self-help guru who wrote the power of positive thinking. his message of optimism, mantras like you need be defeated only

if you're willing to be and his positive mind set gospel gained him a lot of fans including fred trump, donald trump's father. so much so that he and his family joined peale's church as his granddaughter mary trump told us in 2020. >> and as far as i recollect, my grandfather joined more of a collegiate church which was norman vincent peale's church, the guy who wrote the power of positive thinking in the '50s, so you know, i never got the impression that any of them with the exception of marianne, who converted to catholicism before her first marriage was particularly religious or church going. >> that donald trump was never particularly religious or church going was news to absolutely no one, but now trump is using his own brand of positive thinking to dupe his self proclaimed christian supporters into believing he is the second coming of jesus himself. his own brand of the power of

maga thinking, fusing his own perverse message into his rallies, which alongside the passion of the maga faithful gives them a church of the cult of trump air, including the rituals that would seem familiar to christian believers. hands raised in the air as a sign of surrender and reverence to god. except that trump rallies, it's reverence to trump with a one-finger salute, a hallmark of qanon followers and a nod to that movement's slogan. even though they were told to stop, you still see them from time to time. he's also taken to ending his speeches with a sermon of sorts, proclaiming that they are one movement and one family under god. but now that he's running for president so he can stay out of prison, he's really ratcheted up the church-like energy at his rallies. as "the new york times" notes, even more than in his past campaigns, he's framing his 2024 bid as a fight for christianity, telling a convention of

christian broadcasters that just like in the battles of the past, we still need the hand of our lord. on his social media platform in recent months, trump has shared a courtroom style sketch of himself sitting next to jesus, and a video that repeatedly proclaims, god gave us trump to lead the country. and the reality is, his venomous snake oil is working. as trump has either directly or indirectly compared himself to jesus, his followers have continued their descent into cult-like madness. parroting his persecution complex right back as if he is being punished for their sins. >> because i'm being indicted for you and never forget. >> when they're indicting him, errr being indicted. >> they want to silence me because i will never let them silence you. >> it's really to get him out of being able to run for president. that's all it is.

it's to take our eyes off of wanting him. >> our enemies want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. >> they're trying to persecute him for the same things that they have been doing all along. >> they're not after me, they're after you. i just happen to be standing in the way. >> okay, he's doing this for us as a country to make the changes we need to make and he's the target. where we don't have to be. >> joining me now is steven hassan, founder of the freedom of mind resource center, and the author of "the cult of trump." it is good to see you. talk to me about how that happens, what we just saw there. how do people go from ordinary people to believing that someone like donald trump of all people, a giant enormous sinner, is not just speaking for god but is in a sense god? >> yeah, it's a pleasure to be on your show again, joy. as you know, i was recruited

into the moonies, so it happened to me. and i got radicalized and i believed this fat korean billionaire was the messiah and greater than jesus, and i thought that democracy was satanic. we had to infiltrate the government and install a theocracy. i went to the social psychologist, learned about hypnosis, and have been doing my life work of 47 years to explain to the public how intelligent, educated people's minds can get hacked, not unlike how computers can get hacked, through malware where you deceptively click on something and hip nautically get indoctrinated into this alternate reality. however, the good news is it's not permanent. and people wake up. and they are embarrassed and in shame, as i have felt in 1976.

but more and more people are leaving the maga cult. and i do think that it's important that people not just yell at people who are still trapped in this delusion or block their family and friends who they have loved. but open doors and just say, no matter what, i love you. you're my aunt, my uncle, my sister, my brother. and ask questions in a respectful, curious way that gets them to start realizing they have been conned and that their minds have been hijacked. >> right, and i think that people don't want to believe they have been -- look, my mother came from guyana. she used to have to correct people that jonestown was made up by americans in a cult. it was not a real city in guyana. whether it's jim jones or david koresh or charles manson, intelligent people joined them believing they were going to be

led to jesus or to christ, only for these men to say, oh, no, by the way, i am the lord and savior. trump has reached that point where he's done that pivot from saying that he's leading a movement of believers to saying that the belief should be in him, he's the messiah. once you get to that point where you're now accepting that reality, how do you walk someone back? is it just loving kindness and questions? it seems to me it can't be that simple. >> no, it's more. but i want to just challenge the idea that trump is a genius and doing this all himself. >> agree with that. >> mark burnett, who recruited him for the apprentice is part of the christian dominionism movement that wants to destroy the separation of church and state, paula white introduced him to new apostolic members and other priests who have some 40 million americans who are following people who claim to be

apostles or prophets themselves, joy, that say god told them that trump won in 2020. therefore, ignore all the evidence because this is satan and it's fake news. right? but they're puppet masters including i believe vladimir putin, but also christian nationalists, nazis, and other people with agendas to push fossil fuel oils, et cetera, that are manipulating these true believers. but to answer your question, the critical thing is explaining the influence continuum from ethical to unethical influence, and that ethical influence is informed consent, respecting conscience, and mind control authoritarian cultism creates this dissociative disorder where people are dependent and obedient. they become clones of the cult member.

the critical thing with maga people is i recommend people talk about chinese communist brain washing and these methods and pimps and traffickers. because they all use behavior control, information control, thought control, and emotional control to create this new pseudoidentity. by talking about a group they agree is a brain washing group, we can backtrack and ask people to think back before they started believing in trump. >> what did they actually believe, yeah. including what did they believe about god and what did they read in the red letters of the bible. we're out of time, but thank you very much. much appreciated. coming up, global outrage after seven world central kitchen aid workers were killed in an israeli strike in gaza. we'll be right back. ight back.

(♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. hi, i'm david, and i lost 92 pounds on golo.

try dietary supplements from voltaren, my life partner connie and i were in really rough shape regarding our health. and our doctors told us that we needed to lose weight. i saw a golo commercial and i thought, "we really need to try this." as the weeks went by, the weight came off. we learned to make healthy choices and be supportive of each other. together, we've lost 170 pounds. golo worked for us. since losing weight on golo, i'm feeling grateful and hopeful about the future. (energizing music)

one of the many horrors of israel's war in gaza is a blockade of humanitarian aid into a region that is on the brink of starvation. we have seen the long lines of food-filled trucks blocked at the gaza border, by protesters or by the military, which is why many international aid agencies have stopped operations in the area.

now, attempts to deliver food to starving gazans has ended in bloodshed that is reverberating around the world. world central kitchen, the disaster relief nonprofit founded by chef jose andres, has immediately paused its operations in the region after an israeli strike killed seven of its aid workers. andres said he that was heartbroken and grieving for his colleagues who were killed. and that the israeli government must, quote, stop killing civilians and aid workers and stop using food as a weapon. the white house confirmed that one of those killed is a dual american citizen. my colleague raf sanchez shared the stories of those who died. >> reporter: the charity says its staff were traveling in a three-vehicle convoy clearly marked with its logo, and it coordinated their movements with the israeli military ahead of time. one victim, australian and experienced aid worker. damian sobel was also killed,

according to his local mayor. israel facing questions about the accuracy of its strikes in gaza. >> world central kitchen said its convoy was hit as it was leaving a warehouse where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid that the charity had brought to gaza by sea earlier in the day. also disturbing is that two days before monday's deadly israeli air strike that killed seven of its aid workers, world central kitchen believes an israeli sniper fired at one of its vehicles. the charity told nbc news that the bullet damaged a side mirror and no one was injured. world central kitchen said it reported the incident to the israeli military. nbc news has reached out to the israeli military for comment. joining me now is hani director of philanthropy. it's good to see you. i am sorry that is always under such difficult circumstances. what were your first thoughts

when you heard about this strike that killed these workers from the world food kitchen? >> hi, joy. thank you for having me. it's definitely horrifying. i read the news late last night and it's been already a bloody day, at the hospital, looking at those images and before i go to bed, here comes another tragedy. i send my condolences to their families, to their colleagues. this is really just scary. you know, humanitarian workers should not be targeted. i have been saying this for six months now, and it seems like nobody is listening. and you know, this is a situation sadly not the first time a humanitarian worker loses their life. my colleagues lost one last month, a dear friend of mine at save the children lost one, and doctors without borders have lost five of their doctors. it's unfortunate. i don't know how we stop this. and i hope everybody agrees that we should not target humanitarian aid workers. and that's just not happening,

and it's heartbreaking because these folks came a great length to deliver food for families like those living in the south and the north, and it's sad their mission has been terminated or suspended right now and sarivation is too real for people i know and care about. >> we know your family has been impacted. this is very personal to you, but i mean, when you look at sort of the cumulative story here, sort of running anra out of gaza, which was the primary aid agency helping gazans, all of the protests that are stopping the ground movement of food and now this action that has stopped the movement of food by sea. it's not clear how gazans who are at this point eating grass in parts of gaza and northern gaza will find anything to eat and we're talking about, you know, more than a million, one to two million people who are

starving. how can food aid even get in and what would you want the biden administration, for instance, to do about it? >> you're exactly right. people are on the brink of starvation. the ngo said as much. i don't need to hear that because i see it when i talk to my family. they have eaten rabbit and pigeons for a while. and they were able to do a soup kitchen to provide food for our family. you're looking at my family. this is my mom. she's suffered enough but she wanted to do a project with my brother, but the end of the day, it shouldn't be civilians like my family to solve the hunger problem that had nothing to do with them. this is 20 minutes from where my family is, and they're being starved. my mom visited with a little boy. he just passed away about four

days ago from complications and malnourishment at the hospital. there's at least three kids like him in that stage and we're trying to go and deliver food, but it's hard. we're also, the family feels threatened and their safety is a big concern. i would love to see access. there's also the question of funding, also for all ngos, but access, like ngos are being denied access to the north, and that's a problem. we need food to get to the north. the air drop is nice, very welcome, but at the end of the day, it's not sustainable or cost effective. there are ways and organizations and processes to deliver this aid and food to people like the 200 to 300,000 palestinians who remain in the north. but this is not happening. so there has to be a way to deliver this aid, and we do not want the lives lost already in the line of humanitarian work to be lost in vain because people are starved. this is real, i can name a a few

people who have died from complication of hunger, but at the end of the day, it's not lack of resources at this point. we need access. we need access to places where people can receive food, and many ngos, it doesn't have to be x, y, and z. it could be an ngo from the u.s. government, could be anywhere. this is about intentional starvation, and we can solve this. this is not something we cannot prevent. this is not something that happened in an earthquake or something like this. police, a cease-fire would be a good start. but also, making sure that access and trucks flow into gaza. >> thank you very much, and thank you to your family for all that you're doing to try to get food to the people in gaza. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> and coming up, today is the final chance for the victims of the tulsa massacre to receive justice. more than 100 years later, with the oklahoma supreme court hearing their argument today for the right to go to trial to seek reparations.

that is up next. that is up next.

when you have chronic kidney disease, there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here.

not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

today, the last two survivors of the 1921 tulsa race massacre made a final plea before the oklahoma supreme court. the lawyers for ms. viola fletcher and lessee benningfield randall who are both 109 years old are asking the court for the opportunity to continue their

quest for equitable relief for the survivors of the massacre. more than 100 years ago in 1921, a violent white mob besieged, looted, and destroyed the greenwood district of tulsa, a thriving african american onclive known as black wall street. they torched more than 1,000 homes and destroyed churches, schools, and ransacked businesses. 35 city blocks were burned to the ground. leaving survivors to pick through the rubble of their homes and businesses with absolutely no help or sympathy to rebuild their lives. this case has been winding its way through the courts for years. and back in july, a tulsa county district judge, a self-described constitutional conservative, dismissed the case. today, the lawyers for ms. viola and mother randall asked the supreme court to return the case to district court. their lawsuit argues that oklahoma's public nuisance law allows survivors to claim

present day relief because actions of the white mob in 1921 backed by u.s. military aircraft continued to affect the black community, causing blight and other economic impacts for descendants and people living in north tulsa today. here is what ms. viola fletcher and her younger brother told me last may. >> i'm still here. >> amen. >> i'm here to fight. >> and mother fletcher, at 108, you're still fighting. what does justice look like to you? >> what does justice look like to you? >> well, everything is beautiful and rebuilt and restored. it is just time now that we have justice on all of that where we can live all our life, that type of life over again as a grown-up. >> sadly, he was van ellis, who

was lovingly known as uncle red, did not get to see justice for what happened to his family on that day. he died in october at the age of 100 to. today's hearing is the last chance for the survivors to get any justice and recognition of what they lost more than 100 years ago. their lawyer, solomon simmons told reporters there is nowhere else for us to go. this is it. he joins me next. next.

if you have wet amd, you never want to lose sight of the things you love. some things should stand the test of time. long lasting eylea hd could significantly improve your vision and can help you go up to 4 months between treatments. if you have an eye infection, eye pain or redness, or allergies to eylea hd, don't use. eye injections like eyla hd may cause eye infection, separation of the retina, or rare but severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye. an increase in eye pressure has been seen. there's an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. the most common side effects were blurred vision, cataract, corneal injury, and eye floaters. and there's still so much to see. if you are on eylea or a similar type of treatment, ask your retina specialist about eylea hd

today, for the potential for fewer injections.

it may not sound like it, but this... is actually progress at 225 miles per hour. shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60% in all ntt indycar® series races. ♪♪ we're moving forward with indycar. because we're moving forward with everybody. ♪♪ shell. powering progress.

>> when i went to high school, i knew about the trail of tears, i knew pleasant porter wanted in the constitution but greenwood wasn't mentioned. i think regardless, you all should be commended for making sure that will never happen

again, that greenwood will be in the history books. >> that was one of the nine members of oklahoma's supreme court in a stunning moment of honesty. while it is unclear what that court will do when it comes to the survivors of the 1921 paul survey's massacre, the justice noted they have changed the course of history. what comes next is unwritten. joining me now is the attorney representing the tulsa race massacre survivors and the founder of justice for greenwood, damario solomon simmons. my job dropped hearing that the that in oklahoma, people don't even know this massacre happened. how stunned were you to hear that justice say that ? >> joy, good to see you, thank you for your support of my work and other clients. it was a stunning development, something i've never seen before and particularly at the supreme court level. it was very emotional and everyone felt what the justice stated. we don't know what comes next but we are thankful the justices took this case. the didn't have to do it. thankfully, they gave us an oral argument. we felt like today we put on a

strong, compelling case and we hope they decide quickly and we hope we continue this case moving forward to get justice for our claims. >> the the justices seemed skeptical ? did the justices seem open to the arguments you are making? what would your argument question >> the justices seemed they were open to what we were saying. i felt like they understood our argument. sometimes you go to these types of arguments, there are so many things going on and you don't know if the justices are understanding what you are saying. i felt like they understood the gravity of the situation and our basic argument, joy is we are in a motion to dismiss stage. we filed our pleadings, even though we've been fighting this for 3.5 years. we haven't had any opportunity to do any discovery, we haven't had a trial. we are making it clear to the judges that underneath oklahoma case law, if you take every thing we say in our petition is true, we should have an opportunity to move forward and get into discovery and i think they understood that.

>> the idea that uncle red being gone, he was the youngest of the three, that of the two remaining petitioners are 109 years old means that there is just, by definition of nature very little time for them to get justice. they were little kids, they were babies, they were toddlers when it happened but they remember it. doesn't it feel like that should carry some weight ? people always try to say you can't do preparations because the victims are long gone. they are not gone. >> i think it's very interesting and you brought up my man, uncle red and we missed him. in my career of 20 years working on this issue, i've lost so many survivors. to be down to the last two, it felt like it was a powerful feeling to see the two 109-year- old women in court today but i was saddened they are having to spend these years in their life still going to the courthouse is trying to get justice. you said something, hey, this is special injury. some of the defendants were trying to say these two living

survivors were not injured, particularly by the massacre. i think the court saw through that and i am just so thankful to have these clients still alive and have such an amazing legal team. my cocounsel and all the supporters who are pushing this thing forward and we hope the supreme court will give us opportunity to prove our case. >> you obviously, oklahoma is a state that is not exactly in favor of telling all of the history, as that justice made it clear, they don't do that. what you make of the fact that even though you have some oklahoma officials who are trying to be on history that would include the history of the tulsa massacre, even as your case is going on ? >> i remember 20, 25 years ago, i was in college, a freshman. i was thinking man, i wish i was born during the 60s and fight those fights. i never thought i would be fighting the same type of things today. that is what we are actually doing. it is sad. i speak to my 88-year-old father-in-law, who just turned 88 a couple of weeks ago, rb winston. i said can you believe we are still dealing with the stuff

you were dealing with growing up in the 40s and 50s. it is disheartening but, at the same time, i am blessed to stand on the shoulders of the ancestors who have gone through so much more. your great new book, i have been reading that and thinking about this man was fighting in mississippi in the 50s and 60s where houses were being bombed, people were getting shot at, he was assassinated. as hard as it is right now for us, it pales in comparison with our ancestors and i'm glad to stand on their shoulders to try to make life better for african- americans and for this entire country. >> please give our best to these wonderful survivors. they are 109 years young. they are young and powerful and we appreciate them and we appreciate you. damario solomon simmons, thank you. that is the reidout. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all